Byron said:

Stymie said:

Dave1992 said: And please. A man can walk away from the pregnancy if he chooses to. Concerns both parents? Okay. And before my org fathers get on my shit for this post, I don't mean all potential fathers.

A woman can walk away from a pregnancy if she chooses to as well. We've actually fought for women's right to that choice.

And while a man can choose to walk away from a pregnancy, he can't walk away from the support of raising the child. A woman can choose to turn him in to the courts for doing so.

Exactly...

Byron said:

Stymie said:

Dave1992 said: And please. A man can walk away from the pregnancy if he chooses to. Concerns both parents? Okay. And before my org fathers get on my shit for this post, I don't mean all potential fathers.

A woman can walk away from a pregnancy if she chooses to as well. We've actually fought for women's right to that choice.

And while a man can choose to walk away from a pregnancy, he can't walk away from the support of raising the child. A woman can choose to turn him in to the courts for doing so.

Sure, both parties can walk away from a pregnancy, but who has to go under the knife to end it? Who is taking the bigger risk?

As for the courts, a woman can choose to turn him in to the courts for child support, but is it guaranteed they would find him? Btw, a man can file papers, too.

Byron said:

Dave1992 said:

deebee said:

Dave1992 said:

???

Of course we (have to) worry about pregnancy too.. why wouldn't we?? I'm convinced that one of the very few things about getting pregnant the two sexes don't share, like the actual nine months of pregnancy, are the least thing to "worry" about. Surely there's much more to getting pregnant than that, and it concerns both parents.

I did actually 'lol' at this..... The women of the world will be relieved to learn that "the actual nine months of pregnancy" has been relegated to just one singular aspect of getting pregnant - and a rather minor one at that ("the least thing to 'worry' about", no less). Should help with the fatigue, morning sickness, nosebleeds, constipation, swelling and general crazy bodily metamorphosis, hormonal rollercoaster, etc, associated with nurturing a darling little quasi-parasite internally for the best part of a year; not to mention the physical trauma and potential threat to life when Junior finally decides to exit (through an orifice that never quite seems prepared for the task). Stymie, you don't realise just how tough we fellas have it! Now, move over and give me a hit on that gas and air!

I just ignored that part of his statement.

deebee said:

Dave1992 said:

???

Of course we (have to) worry about pregnancy too.. why wouldn't we?? I'm convinced that one of the very few things about getting pregnant the two sexes don't share, like the actual nine months of pregnancy, are the least thing to "worry" about. Surely there's much more to getting pregnant than that, and it concerns both parents.

I did actually 'lol' at this..... The women of the world will be relieved to learn that "the actual nine months of pregnancy" has been relegated to just one singular aspect of getting pregnant - and a rather minor one at that ("the least thing to 'worry' about", no less). Should help with the fatigue, morning sickness, nosebleeds, constipation, swelling and general crazy bodily metamorphosis, hormonal rollercoaster, etc, associated with nurturing a darling little quasi-parasite internally for the best part of a year; not to mention the physical trauma and potential threat to life when Junior finally decides to exit (through an orifice that never quite seems prepared for the task). Stymie, you don't realise just how tough we fellas have it! Now, move over and give me a hit on that gas and air!

Still, if you really want to raise a child, you should be prepared for much, much more than that. And those things concern both parents.

That's all, thank you.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Byron said:

A woman can walk away from a pregnancy if she chooses to as well. We've actually fought for women's right to that choice.

And while a man can choose to walk away from a pregnancy, he can't walk away from the support of raising the child. A woman can choose to turn him in to the courts for doing so.

Sure, both parties can walk away from a pregnancy, but who has to go under the knife to end it? Who is taking the bigger risk?

As for the courts, a woman can choose to turn him in to the courts for child support, but is it guaranteed they would find him? Btw, a man can file papers, too.

I never said the ability to "walk away" from a pregnancy was equal, only that both men and women have that choice.

The court stuff...no guarantee of finding him, but the guy would have to either go thru a lot to hide from the courts or he would have to have been a questionable guy with questionable, er, "life choices" to begin with lol...if he's just a normal guy who doesn't really change his life at all, just chooses to shirk his responsibility as a parent, he'll be rather easy to find through his employment and tracking his social security/tax records submitted by his employer--when I owned my own business, I constantly received court orders requiring me to send a certain percentage of different employee's paychecks to the court for back child support.

Stymie said:

Byron said:

A woman can walk away from a pregnancy if she chooses to as well. We've actually fought for women's right to that choice.

And while a man can choose to walk away from a pregnancy, he can't walk away from the support of raising the child. A woman can choose to turn him in to the courts for doing so.

yeah he can walk from support too. Trust me on that one. My point was that men do not have to worry about ever being pregnant. I wasn't really trying to go deep with it.

Please...you should know by now how freakin' literal and analytical I can be lol

speaking of pregnancy, childbirth etc... i don't envy women's lack of a sense of humour

eg, when i was driving my wife to the hospital to give birth to our 2nd child, i said her her "if you don't mind could you try and be cool this time".... she looked confused and said "what do you mean?"... i said "well, you carried on a bit last time and i have my reputation to consider"

talk about a lead ballooon... who knew such a delicate little flower could hit so damn hard





.

[Edited 7/29/13 17:14pm]

Dave1992 said:

Byron said:

A woman can walk away from a pregnancy if she chooses to as well. We've actually fought for women's right to that choice.

And while a man can choose to walk away from a pregnancy, he can't walk away from the support of raising the child. A woman can choose to turn him in to the courts for doing so.

Exactly...

In the US simply crossing state lines and/or changing job scan make child support payments a litigious nightmare. That just for starters...

My advice to young women, they should have as many children as they can afford to have.

TD3 said:

Dave1992 said:

Exactly...

In the US simply crossing state lines and/or changing job scan make child support payments a litigious nightmare. That just for starters...

My advice to young women, they should have as many children as they can afford to have.

As long as he doesn't use a fake social security number, and as long as his employer simply files the required tax forms, it would be rather easy to find the guy. There are federal child support laws that aren't effected by a deadbeat dad crossing state lines. In fact, it's illegal for a parent to cross state lines for the intent of avoiding paying child support...jail time could be the result of doing so.

MoBetterBliss said:

speaking of pregnancy, childbirth etc... i don't envy women's lack of a sense of humour

eg, when i was driving my wife to the hospital to give birth to out 2nd child, i said her her "if you don't mind could you try and be cool this time".... she looked confused and said "what do you mean?"... i said "well, you carried on a bit last time and i have my reputation to consider"

talk about a lead ballooon... who knew such a delicate little flower could hit so damn hard

That's funny, however, men have the same lack of a sense of humour. I wouldn't say that either sex has a better one. Some prefer crass others irony. I wouldn't generalize on this one.

Byron said:

TD3 said:

In the US simply crossing state lines and/or changing job scan make child support payments a litigious nightmare. That just for starters...

My advice to young women, they should have as many children as they can afford to have.

As long as he doesn't use a fake social security number, and as long as his employer simply files the required tax forms, it would be rather easy to find the guy. There are federal child support laws that aren't effected by a deadbeat dad crossing state lines. In fact, it's illegal for a parent to cross state lines for the intent of avoiding paying child support...jail time could be the result of doing so.

My friend's baby-daddy has been working off-the-books for about 3 years now. According to the courts, he is unemployed. He's in arrears in the thousands...his father (the child's grandpa) has paid off most of it...but as long as he pays $25 (a week? a month?) he can't be jailed.

Now he's moved to Florida with his girlfriend/2nd baby momma. She works and according to the "books" is the one who is maintaining the household. They even bought a HOUSE.

But I guess as long as he works off the books, they can't touch him. I didn't know about the issue with crossing state lines...I'll mention it to my friend.



I can't imagine doing that...abandoning your kids. It just doesn't register. This little girl is going to grow up without a father figure...she knows that daddy moved away with his girlfriend...I can't imagine what goes through her little mind.

But it happens all the time. Men and women abandon their children.

Even worse...when they throw the newborns in the TRASH.

Not to beat a dead horse...but a woman can walk away from her baby just as easily as a man.

Byron said:

TD3 said:

In the US simply crossing state lines and/or changing job scan make child support payments a litigious nightmare. That just for starters...

My advice to young women, they should have as many children as they can afford to have.

As long as he doesn't use a fake social security number, and as long as his employer simply files the required tax forms, it would be rather easy to find the guy. There are federal child support laws that aren't effected by a deadbeat dad crossing state lines. In fact, it's illegal for a parent to cross state lines for the intent of avoiding paying child support...jail time could be the result of doing so.

If only if it was that open and shut but it isn't, unfortunately. Law are only as effective if they are enforced and funded.

One of the most complex and confusing areas of law is the authority of a court to act on people outside its jurisdiction. A core element of jurisdiction is contact. For a court to have jurisdiction over a person, the person must have some "contact" with the court. Even though laws have been passed (or a law) giving jurisdiction to the court who ordered child support payments... if a non custodial parents moves out of state and doesn't pay court ordered child support, that state is on hook to use their resources to enforce another states court order. That's the rub because more often than not the laws aren't enforced as the should be.

When these politician's make these grandiose sweeping statements about what they are going to do and what they are going to pass to enforce whatever - ask them how is it going to be funded? Look at are all of these children on the public dole, why is that? Because parents are not providing for the care their children.

-----------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/29/13 14:02pm]

kewlschool said:

MoBetterBliss said:

speaking of pregnancy, childbirth etc... i don't envy women's lack of a sense of humour

eg, when i was driving my wife to the hospital to give birth to out 2nd child, i said her her "if you don't mind could you try and be cool this time".... she looked confused and said "what do you mean?"... i said "well, you carried on a bit last time and i have my reputation to consider"

talk about a lead ballooon... who knew such a delicate little flower could hit so damn hard

That's funny, however, men have the same lack of a sense of humour. I wouldn't say that either sex has a better one. Some prefer crass others irony. I wouldn't generalize on this one.

i was kidding about the sense of humour... she was actually laughing when she hit me

PurpleJedi said:

Byron said:

As long as he doesn't use a fake social security number, and as long as his employer simply files the required tax forms, it would be rather easy to find the guy. There are federal child support laws that aren't effected by a deadbeat dad crossing state lines. In fact, it's illegal for a parent to cross state lines for the intent of avoiding paying child support...jail time could be the result of doing so.

My friend's baby-daddy has been working off-the-books for about 3 years now. According to the courts, he is unemployed. He's in arrears in the thousands...his father (the child's grandpa) has paid off most of it...but as long as he pays $25 (a week? a month?) he can't be jailed.

Now he's moved to Florida with his girlfriend/2nd baby momma. She works and according to the "books" is the one who is maintaining the household. They even bought a HOUSE.

But I guess as long as he works off the books, they can't touch him. I didn't know about the issue with crossing state lines...I'll mention it to my friend.



I can't imagine doing that...abandoning your kids. It just doesn't register. This little girl is going to grow up without a father figure...she knows that daddy moved away with his girlfriend...I can't imagine what goes through her little mind.

But it happens all the time. Men and women abandon their children.

Even worse...when they throw the newborns in the TRASH.

Not to beat a dead horse...but a woman can walk away from her baby just as easily as a man.

Very true. look how many children or Wards of The State.

You don't have to work off the books. I've known parents to skip to another state, find work in give all their pertinent information accurately... and go on about their business. As I said that's for starters, they other simply "tricks" these bums do to to evade child support... like work off the books.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/29/13 13:50pm]

PurpleJedi said:

Byron said:

As long as he doesn't use a fake social security number, and as long as his employer simply files the required tax forms, it would be rather easy to find the guy. There are federal child support laws that aren't effected by a deadbeat dad crossing state lines. In fact, it's illegal for a parent to cross state lines for the intent of avoiding paying child support...jail time could be the result of doing so.

My friend's baby-daddy has been working off-the-books for about 3 years now. According to the courts, he is unemployed. He's in arrears in the thousands...his father (the child's grandpa) has paid off most of it...but as long as he pays $25 (a week? a month?) he can't be jailed.

Now he's moved to Florida with his girlfriend/2nd baby momma. She works and according to the "books" is the one who is maintaining the household. They even bought a HOUSE.

But I guess as long as he works off the books, they can't touch him. I didn't know about the issue with crossing state lines...I'll mention it to my friend.



I can't imagine doing that...abandoning your kids. It just doesn't register. This little girl is going to grow up without a father figure...she knows that daddy moved away with his girlfriend...I can't imagine what goes through her little mind.

But it happens all the time. Men and women abandon their children.

Even worse...when they throw the newborns in the TRASH.

Not to beat a dead horse...but a woman can walk away from her baby just as easily as a man.

Man abandons a child, no problem. Woman does it and goes to jail.

TD3 said:

PurpleJedi said:

My friend's baby-daddy has been working off-the-books for about 3 years now. According to the courts, he is unemployed. He's in arrears in the thousands...his father (the child's grandpa) has paid off most of it...but as long as he pays $25 (a week? a month?) he can't be jailed.

Now he's moved to Florida with his girlfriend/2nd baby momma. She works and according to the "books" is the one who is maintaining the household. They even bought a HOUSE.

But I guess as long as he works off the books, they can't touch him. I didn't know about the issue with crossing state lines...I'll mention it to my friend.



I can't imagine doing that...abandoning your kids. It just doesn't register. This little girl is going to grow up without a father figure...she knows that daddy moved away with his girlfriend...I can't imagine what goes through her little mind.

But it happens all the time. Men and women abandon their children.

Even worse...when they throw the newborns in the TRASH.

Not to beat a dead horse...but a woman can walk away from her baby just as easily as a man.

Very true. look how many children or Wards of The State.

You don't have to work off the books. I've known parents to skip to another state, find work in give all their pertinent information accurately... and go on about their business. As I said that's for starters, they other simply "tricks" these bums do to to evade child support... like work off the books.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/29/13 13:50pm]

They are wards of the state because there most likely has been a court proceeding against the mother.

Let's say it is as easy for either to abandon, the woman is the most vilified if she does so.

Stymie said:

TD3 said:

Very true. look how many children or Wards of The State.

You don't have to work off the books. I've known parents to skip to another state, find work in give all their pertinent information accurately... and go on about their business. As I said that's for starters, they other simply "tricks" these bums do to to evade child support... like work off the books.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/29/13 13:50pm]

They are wards of the state because there most likely has been a court proceeding against the mother.

Let's say it is as easy for either to abandon, the woman is the most vilified if she does so.

without a doubt, this is true

PurpleJedi said:

Byron said:

As long as he doesn't use a fake social security number, and as long as his employer simply files the required tax forms, it would be rather easy to find the guy. There are federal child support laws that aren't effected by a deadbeat dad crossing state lines. In fact, it's illegal for a parent to cross state lines for the intent of avoiding paying child support...jail time could be the result of doing so.

My friend's baby-daddy has been working off-the-books for about 3 years now. According to the courts, he is unemployed. He's in arrears in the thousands...his father (the child's grandpa) has paid off most of it...but as long as he pays $25 (a week? a month?) he can't be jailed.

Now he's moved to Florida with his girlfriend/2nd baby momma. She works and according to the "books" is the one who is maintaining the household. They even bought a HOUSE.

But I guess as long as he works off the books, they can't touch him. I didn't know about the issue with crossing state lines...I'll mention it to my friend.



I can't imagine doing that...abandoning your kids. It just doesn't register. This little girl is going to grow up without a father figure...she knows that daddy moved away with his girlfriend...I can't imagine what goes through her little mind.

But it happens all the time. Men and women abandon their children.

Even worse...when they throw the newborns in the TRASH.

Not to beat a dead horse...but a woman can walk away from her baby just as easily as a man.

There are ways around it, definitely...although there are also ways of finding out if a parent is working off the books. It's basically of the same as state comp insurance finding a way to see if a person is really disabled or not. Depends on how much of a state's resources (if any) are dedicated to that aspect of enforcing their child support laws.

TD3 said:

Byron said:

As long as he doesn't use a fake social security number, and as long as his employer simply files the required tax forms, it would be rather easy to find the guy. There are federal child support laws that aren't effected by a deadbeat dad crossing state lines. In fact, it's illegal for a parent to cross state lines for the intent of avoiding paying child support...jail time could be the result of doing so.

If only if it was that open and shut but it isn't, unfortunately. Law are only as effective if they are enforced and funded.

One of the most complex and confusing areas of law is the authority of a court to act on people outside its jurisdiction. A core element of jurisdiction is contact. For a court to have jurisdiction over a person, the person must have some "contact" with the court. Even though laws have been passed (or a law) giving jurisdiction to the court who ordered child support payments... if a non custodial parents moves out of state and doesn't pay court ordered child support, that state is on hook to use their resources to enforce another states court order. That's the rub because more often than not the laws aren't enforced as the should be.

When these politician's make these grandiose sweeping statements about what they are going to do and what they are going to pass to enforce whatever - ask them how is it going to be funded? Look at are all of these children on the public dole, why is that? Because parents are not providing for the care their children.

-----------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/29/13 14:02pm]

When you're talking federal laws and crimes, though, it's not really an issue of jurisdiction.

There's been a movement over the last decade to make child support more of a federal issue than a state issue. Some states also have organizations in the private sector who earn money tracking down deadbeat dads (some states have quite a few organizations like that...sadly, some barely have any). When I had to deal with court orders to garnish some of my employee's paychecks for child support, some of them had only been working for me for 3 months. One guy moved from Virginia to California, and I still got court orders to garnish his wages due to back child support. And unfortunately, you do have those women who don't really force the issue beyond the basic inquiry and then give up...one woman I knew a long time ago online was having issues with a deadbeat dad. I looked up a shitload of avenues that I pointed her towards, but she just didn't want to put forth the effort. She took on a "what's the use" mindset.

They were able to rather easily find these guys and issue those garnishments. So it does happen.

[Edited 7/29/13 16:16pm]

Stymie said:

PurpleJedi said:

My friend's baby-daddy has been working off-the-books for about 3 years now. According to the courts, he is unemployed. He's in arrears in the thousands...his father (the child's grandpa) has paid off most of it...but as long as he pays $25 (a week? a month?) he can't be jailed.

Now he's moved to Florida with his girlfriend/2nd baby momma. She works and according to the "books" is the one who is maintaining the household. They even bought a HOUSE.

But I guess as long as he works off the books, they can't touch him. I didn't know about the issue with crossing state lines...I'll mention it to my friend.



I can't imagine doing that...abandoning your kids. It just doesn't register. This little girl is going to grow up without a father figure...she knows that daddy moved away with his girlfriend...I can't imagine what goes through her little mind.

But it happens all the time. Men and women abandon their children.

Even worse...when they throw the newborns in the TRASH.

Not to beat a dead horse...but a woman can walk away from her baby just as easily as a man.

Man abandons a child, no problem. Woman does it and goes to jail.

??

A single parent, man or woman, abandons their child, they'll be in trouble with the law. A parent, man or woman, abandons their child in terms of support, they'll be in trouble with the law.

I still like perky moobs.

paintedlady said:

I still like perky moobs.

[img:$uid]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/609559/fat-man-o.gif[/img:$uid]

THOSE pancakes are NOT PERKY!!

^^^ perky moobs.

Yes, I know I have issues...

[Edited 7/29/13 16:57pm]

Stymie said:

TD3 said:

Very true. look how many children of Wards of The State.

You don't have to work off the books. I've known parents to skip to another state, find work in give all their pertinent information accurately... and go on about their business. As I said that's for starters, they other simply "tricks" these bums do to to evade child support... like work off the books.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/29/13 13:50pm]

They are wards of the state because there most likely has been a court proceeding against the mother.

Let's say it is as easy for either to abandon, the woman is the most vilified if she does so.

In most instances that's the case, though I was very surprised when I represented children how many of their mother's made a decision to walk away. Still when most children loss their mothers -I don't care were they live in the world- they are very vulnerable to being abused.

Women are most defiantly vilified if they abandoned their kids. Hell, dedicated mothers are blamed if their children turn out to be jerks. Men for the most part get a pass by society and sometimes by their children. Go figure

My daughter asked me last Mothers Day if had any fears about becoming a mother. I told her not necessarily but if she had grown up to be a jerk I solely would have been held responsible. Your dad, most folks would've not parted their lips to maybe think he should get some share of the blame.

Unfair? Hell, yeah!

At the same token men who can't take care of themselves and have nothing of their own, grief. I don't know all the bullshit games men play with each other but I know its ruthless. A man who can't stand on his own two feet in this world, is punked. We all have our crossess to bear.

.

Byron said:

TD3 said:

If only if it was that open and shut but it isn't, unfortunately. Law are only as effective if they are enforced and funded.

One of the most complex and confusing areas of law is the authority of a court to act on people outside its jurisdiction. A core element of jurisdiction is contact. For a court to have jurisdiction over a person, the person must have some "contact" with the court. Even though laws have been passed (or a law) giving jurisdiction to the court who ordered child support payments... if a non custodial parents moves out of state and doesn't pay court ordered child support, that state is on hook to use their resources to enforce another states court order. That's the rub because more often than not the laws aren't enforced as the should be.

When these politician's make these grandiose sweeping statements about what they are going to do and what they are going to pass to enforce whatever - ask them how is it going to be funded? Look at are all of these children on the public dole, why is that? Because parents are not providing for the care their children.

-----------------------------------------------

[Edited 7/29/13 14:02pm]

When you're talking federal laws and crimes, though, it's not really an issue of jurisdiction.

There's been a movement over the last decade to make child support more of a federal issue than a state issue. Some states also have organizations in the private sector who earn money tracking down deadbeat dads (some states have quite a few organizations like that...sadly, some barely have any). When I had to deal with court orders to garnish some of my employee's paychecks for child support, some of them had only been working for me for 3 months. One guy moved from Virginia to California, and I still got court orders to garnish his wages due to back child support. And unfortunately, you do have those women who don't really force the issue beyond the basic inquiry and then give up...one woman I knew a long time ago online was having issues with a deadbeat dad. I looked up a shitload of avenues that I pointed her towards, but she just didn't want to put forth the effort. She took on a "what's the use" mindset.

They were able to rather easily find these guys and issue those garnishments. So it does happen.

[Edited 7/29/13 16:16pm]

Its still about jurisdiction, resources... a culminations of issues that have made it very difficult for a a custodial parent to receive child support from the non-custodial parent. In Cook County (Illinois) we have about 87,000 open cases ( ~3 billion dollars in back child support payments) for which a staff of 85 agents were responsible for tracking and collect money from non-paying parents.There use to be 85 agents, Governor Quinn cut their staff by a third... I think two years ago. That's several thousand people in Cook County alone what about the other counties in Illinois? This is par for the course through out the US.

So what are the chances dead beats fathers or mothers will be arrested and/or charge for failing to pay child support? Almost slim to none and I would doubt many of these parents have bothered to leave the state let alone the county. Every once in a while they'll do a dog and pony show and arrested may be 50 people.... 50 people out of a ~87,000.