Dave1992 said:

Genesia said:

This is just bullshit. You are breaking the law (by speeding or driving recklessly) and the people who are unnerved by your actions are the ones who should get off the road?

Sorry, Dave - driving is a privilege, not a right. People who drive like jerks prove themselves unworthy of that privilege. Are you aware that it is differences in speed between that causes most vehicular accidents?

Your need to prove your manhood by driving like a jerk does not supersede the rights of others to get safely to their destination.

You are now talking about law, which is a completely different matter altogether. Of course the person breaking the law loses in all cases.

But there are many cases where nobody actually breaks the law and people's reactions still cause accidents, mostly due to their lack of concentration or because they are simple nervous behind the wheel of a car (so, so many people are... and that is the biggest danger on the streets, in my opinion).

And if we're talking about the law, you have to take into account that most accidents happen at very low speeds (-lack of concentration), although not fatal ones, of course.

I am not trying to condemn illegal behaviour, but I would like to put more pressure on drivers who feel like they are on the safe side just because they drive slowly. These are the kind of people whose driving is often completely illogical and erratic, which is at least as dangerous as someone driving 15 mph faster than what is allowed, but who is actually concentrated and has a proper feel for the traffic situation.

I see what you did there.

This thread is not about people who drive too slowly, Dave - so don't try to change the subject to suit your purposes. It is about people who, by their thoughtless, unlawful and reckless behavior, put other people in danger.

Dave1992 said:

And Genesia, my dear old woman, there was (again) no need for your slight attempt of an insult or ridicule. I don't know if it's simply the hormones and actually not your fault, but it takes away a lot of your credibility and makes you come across as overly belligerent.


And yes, I know, I am oh-so arrogant and should oh-so much learn to deal with my complexes...

I wasn't trying to ridicule you. You said yourself that you drive like a jerk. I took you at your word. If you find that insulting, it is you that needs to change - not I.

You, on the other hand, just insulted me in a very personal way. Which makes you a jerk on yet another level. Your parents must be so proud.

Genesia said:

Empress said:

I am stunned. This is why we have so many traffic accidents.

I wonder if Dave would change his tune if some punk caused his mom to swerve, run off the road and roll her car?

Of course he would. It's all fun and games until one of your loved ones gets killed. Agressive drivers and distracted drivers cause the majority of traffic accidents and fatalities. Both need to be off the road.

Dave1992 said:

RodeoSchro said:

As a former racer (albeit on the dirt), I strongly disagree with that last statement. But in reality, here's the bottom line:

If you scare that person and they do something that causes an accident with you, YOU are the one that is going to get hurt or die. The motorcyclist NEVER wins in a wreck - with a car, tree, or the road.

It's like people that walk out in front of me on streets or in parking lots. I'm sure they are thinking "Pedestrians always have the right of way, so it's not on me to watch where I'm going". But the reality is, if a car hits a person, the person can be in the right all they want but they are still going to die.

The moment you drive off with a motorbike you put your life at risk, it's just how it is. I'm just disagreeing with the sentiment that all people who drive quickly are dangerous drivers and that all people who drive slowly never cause accidents, just because they are protected by the law. The law is full of flaws, especially in traffic.

I remember in driver's ed, there was one segment about slow driving. They showed a film of a grandma doing 35 in a 55 mph zone. Someone got impatient, tried to pass her, and ran headfirst into a semi truck, killing an entire family. Grandma just motored by, oblivious to the whole thing. The film's point was that slow driving can be as dangerous as fast driving. (I wanted to strangle the grandma, LOL. But it was just a fake film - no one really had a wreck or died.)

And of course the real point is - drive under the laws of the road. Don't speed, don't drive too slow. Drive under the law.

You want to race? There are race tracks everywhere. Go there. Race. Have fun. Do it the right way.

.

[Edited 7/3/13 14:30pm]

Having commuted on a bike for the last 20 years, I'd say you have to be extremely aware of your surroundings and your limitations, you are using parts of the road that other vehicles never venture into so you require extra vigilance, you need all your senses including smell.

Getting back to the OP...you can filter through, overtake traffic at fairly high speeds and still remain safe.. It may appear highly dangerous to non bikers but there are limitations, its up to the individual.

.

They say if you make it through the first year on a motorcycle you should be ok from then on safety wise sounds about right.

.

.

.

btw....You ride a bike you don't drive one & a harley is not a motorcycle it's a couch n wheels

[Edited 7/3/13 15:34pm]

PurpleJedi said:

Genesia said:

Sweetie has a Harley.

He does not, however, ride it at 3 a.m. (In fact, he rarely rides after dark.)

It's all good...I guess I'm just jaded from 10 years of living in an area teeming with bikers coming home drunk at 2 or 3 in the morning, engines rumbling like a damn freight train is coming down the street. I can't tell you how close I came to stringing a fishline across the street and decapitate one of those bastards back when the kids were babies.

I have that very same fantasy every time I hear the village idiot barreling down the road at 75 mph in a 25 mph zone.

RodeoSchro said:

Dave1992 said:

The moment you drive off with a motorbike you put your life at risk, it's just how it is. I'm just disagreeing with the sentiment that all people who drive quickly are dangerous drivers and that all people who drive slowly never cause accidents, just because they are protected by the law. The law is full of flaws, especially in traffic.

I remember in driver's ed, there was one segment about slow driving. They showed a film of a grandma doing 35 in a 55 mph zone. Someone got impatient, tried to pass her, and ran headfirst into a semi truck, killing an entire family. Grandma just motored by, oblivious to the whole thing. The film's point was that slow driving can be as dangerous as fast driving. (I wanted to strangle the grandma, LOL. But it was just a fake film - no one really had a wreck or died.)

And of course the real point is - drive under the laws of the road. Don't speed, don't drive too slow. Drive under the law.

You want to race? There are race tracks everywhere. Go there. Race. Have fun. Do it the right way.

.

[Edited 7/3/13 14:30pm]

I wonder does Dave mean people who drive under the limit or just people who drive slower than him?

If he goes the limit and passes people then I owe him an apology.

I'm surprised at you PJ, you are suppose to be a lover not a fishline mugger.

Seriously. Some people think they have an invisible shields around their butts... drivers of cars and motorcycles. You can take all the precaution in the world but for a lot of people its all about them and whatever they want to do... that's pretty dangerous and sad. Unless I'm driving around my own town, when you get on the highway between Mich and IL, you are kinda taking your life into your own hands. They only thing that protects me a bit is if I ride the speed limit and most folks will go around you, some folks don't.... that's another conversation. That's why I said, some car drivers scare the shit out me.




As far as Chicago, pedestrian's don't have the right away anyway...

===================================================

Shyra said:

PurpleJedi said:

It's all good...I guess I'm just jaded from 10 years of living in an area teeming with bikers coming home drunk at 2 or 3 in the morning, engines rumbling like a damn freight train is coming down the street. I can't tell you how close I came to stringing a fishline across the street and decapitate one of those bastards back when the kids were babies.

I have that very same fantasy every time I hear the village idiot barreling down the road at 75 mph in a 25 mph zone.

[Edited 7/3/13 19:23pm]

Stymie said:

RodeoSchro said:

I remember in driver's ed, there was one segment about slow driving. They showed a film of a grandma doing 35 in a 55 mph zone. Someone got impatient, tried to pass her, and ran headfirst into a semi truck, killing an entire family. Grandma just motored by, oblivious to the whole thing. The film's point was that slow driving can be as dangerous as fast driving. (I wanted to strangle the grandma, LOL. But it was just a fake film - no one really had a wreck or died.)

And of course the real point is - drive under the laws of the road. Don't speed, don't drive too slow. Drive under the law.

You want to race? There are race tracks everywhere. Go there. Race. Have fun. Do it the right way.

.

[Edited 7/3/13 14:30pm]

I wonder does Dave mean people who drive under the limit or just people who drive slower than him?

If he goes the limit and passes people then I owe him an apology.

It really depends on the situation (and should, in my opinion). I believe most people sometimes drive over the speed-limit, if they feel the situation is safe (and that police won't wait round the corner!).
Sometimes you have to drive slower than the limit (due to weather, traffic etc).

I just don't think it is accurate to generalise all quick (over the speed-limit) driving as automatically dangerous (and vice versa). It is illegal, sure; but you can drive quickly and efficiently (even more quickly than the government deems "safe" - to give an example: the German highway is one of the safest in the world regarding accidents and deaths, yet there is no speed limit in many parts there!) without having to drive aggressively and harm others. That's all I'm saying.

I drive speed limit because (aside from never causing an accident) I can't afford and don't want to waste money on speeding infringements and I can do without the headache of wondering if speed cameras caught me on film.

The laws are in place to cover all kind of people, not just those who can drive efficiently at fast speeds. They are also in place to cover all kinds of road/weather conditions. They are also there to determine who is at fault when there is an accident.

I do not have a drivers license but I ride a mean bicycle

And traffic = traffic, whether on the highway or on side streets, along-side canals

I, of course, believe I'm a very experienced cyclist and I know my way around town, I know when and when not to speed up, and if everyone would cycle as I do, it would all be a lot better.

Not.

I've been in situations where I would speed up and cycle past someone (not cutting in front or anything) because the road was quiet and I wanted to go fast.

I past her at a normal distance and thought everything was ok. She was startled nonetheless and fell off her bike. I felt like a total douche bag. I helped her up and made sure her bike was OK. I offered to accompagny her hown, but she declined. God, I felt like a dick and have no idea how many times I apologised.

TD3 said:

I'm surprised at you PJ, you are suppose to be a lover not a fishline mugger.

Seriously. Some people think they have an invisible shields around their butts... drivers of cars and motorcycles. You can take all the precaution in the world but for a lot of people its all about them and whatever they want to do... that's pretty dangerous and sad. Unless I'm driving around my own town, when you get on the highway between Mich and IL, you are kinda taking your life into your own hands. They only thing that protects me a bit is if I ride the speed limit and most folks will go around you, some folks don't.... that's another conversation. That's why I said, some car drivers scare the shit out me.




As far as Chicago, pedestrian's don't have the right away anyway...

===================================================

Shyra said:

I have that very same fantasy every time I hear the village idiot barreling down the road at 75 mph in a 25 mph zone.

[Edited 7/3/13 19:23pm]