No it's not a religious thing.

Okay, now I can't find the original article I was going to post but this one will work. I'll start from the middle since it opens with a quote from Charlotte's Web.

How Intermittent Fasting Might Help You Live a Longer and Healthier Life

Intermittent fasting might improve health, but clinical data are thin

Intermittent fasting, which includes everything from periodic multiday fasts to skipping a meal or two on certain days of the week, may promote some of the same health benefits that uninterrupted calorie restriction promises. The idea of intermittent fasting is more palatable to most people because, as Templeton would be happy to hear, one does not have to renounce the pleasures of the feast. Studies indicate that rodents that feast one day and fast the next often consume fewer calories overall than they would normally and live just as long as rats eating calorie-restricted meals every single day.

In a 2003 mouse study overseen by Mark Mattson, head of the National Institute on Aging's neuroscience laboratory, mice that fasted regularly were healthier by some measures than mice subjected to continuous calorie restriction; they had lower levels of insulin and glucose in their blood, for example, which signified increased sensitivity to insulin and a reduced risk of diabetes.

http://www.scientificamer...thier-life

I saw a show on PBS about it the person did a 4 day fast, I'm not sure of how many calories since I caught it mid show, and then later a 5 week 5:2 fast, eating as he usually does for 5 days, then taking a 500 cal/day fast for 2 days. Seems his borderline glycemic levels dropped by half as well as the other "age" related borderline issues, cholestrol, blood pressure and so on dropped dramatically, plus he lost 17lbs during the 5 weeks.

Plus, in mice, it seem to stimulate the production of brain cells. I guess it's that "you need to get a bit smarter so you can hunt for food better" thing.

I'm only on week 2, which doesn't seem all that difficult, a little hard but doable.

Dammit where's that BBC article?

i've read this too, cuts down cholesterol somehow

http://www.sciencedaily.c...090259.htm

Routine Periodic Fasting Is Good for Your Health, and Your Heart, Study Suggests

Yes. It does.


And, calorie restriction does too.



They're currently testing this on monkeys, and even though they're only 10 or 15 years into the test, the monkeys that are eating 'normally' are showing signs of aging that the monkeys that are being fasted regularly aren't showing.

I did a fast in late 2007 and again in 2008.

The first tiem I did it, I cured sinusitus. The second time, I radically reduced symptoms of eczema. Each time I fasted, everyone noticed it looked like I had lost 10 years in appearance.

I haven't looked into fasting with any seriousness, but (as I've mentioned before) I used to work with a Bulgarian lady who fasted for a week every year, and said that the "stuff" your body releases makes you want to do it over & over & over again.

I read somewhere that the human body is DESIGNED to function in a state of hunger, while we seek out our next meal, but since our modern lives allow us to feed with wanton abandon, we're not only getting fat but losing out on the benefits of being in a state of hunger.

^ i've read that so-called primitive humans regularly fasted between searches for food, and our metabolism works best when we fast now and then

XxAxX said:

^ i've read that so-called primitive humans regularly fasted between searches for food, and our metabolism works best when we fast now and then

"primitive" as in pre-McDonalds?

PurpleJedi said:

XxAxX said:

^ i've read that so-called primitive humans regularly fasted between searches for food, and our metabolism works best when we fast now and then

"primitive" as in pre-McDonalds?

mm hmmm

Dr. Michael Mosley did a fantastic Horizon documentary called Eat,Fast and Live Longer last year (highly recommend watching it)

I did it for 3 weeks prior to Christmas 2012 where I limited my calorie intake to 600 for 2 days in a row. After the 3 weeks I had lost roughly 10lbs in weight. I didn't have much too much excessive weight to lose so it was a big reduction.

I also had 13 blood test done in work (I work in a pharma company) and we do blood tests every 6 months. The last two times I had my Cholesterol checked it was 5.8 and the 6.1....After the 3 weeks I got my bloods checked (about 6 months after my previous reading of 6.1) and my Chol was 4.3

The other 12 blood tests I had done were also perfect.

I gave it up over Xmas for about a month and ate and drank everything over Xmas and put back on about 7lbs. I am back on it now about 2 months and I am down around 11lbs sine my weight check after Xmas.

I fast now on Tuesday and Thursdays(not 2 days in a row) and on the other 5 I eat and drink whatever I want (beer,chocolate,3 bottles of wine a week,curries etc)

This diet really does work for losing weight and my bloods are ideal. I am due to get them done again so I am hoping my Chol is still down at 4.3

ZombieKitten said:

I keep reading this thread as "Intermittent Fisting."

Hey, this IS the Org after all.

PREDOMINANT said:

I have wanted to fast for a long time, but I have never done it unless I was sick.

I also saw some special about longevity and they said that both cultures and individuals who lived long lives tended to share a history of hunger

Today, I've started my intermittent fasting routine.

It's wierd, because it just doesn't feel right, since I will be able to eat tomorrow. (I've fasted before, but in a standard fast).

The issue with the standard fast is that I can't go to the gym and workout with the same amount of intensity, and the purpose of a regular fast isn't so much the weight loss/growth hormone stuff, but to heal. So, this is a far different fast for me. I guess I'll give it two months and see the results. So far, I haven't eaten since 8 am, but I'm not really thinking about it since I'm surfing porn.

kewlschool said:

I keep reading this thread as "Intermittent Fisting."

Hey, this IS the Org after all.

mre too! I was thinking as opposed to beginners or advanced?

OnlyNDaUsa said:

kewlschool said:

I keep reading this thread as "Intermittent Fisting."

Hey, this IS the Org after all.

mre too! I was thinking as opposed to beginners or advanced?

Pervert!

Regarding the primate studies of caloric restriction: I came accross this study this morning (completely randomly, was just browsing Scientific American blogs) and was reminded of this thread. The study seems to contradict some of the findings of the Wisonsin study showing that calory restriction increases longevity. They did find that benefits in triglyceride and cholesterol levels in older populations, & improved immune responses and rates of cancer in younger monkeys.

http://www.nature.com/nat...11432.html

http://www.nature.com/new...un-1.11297

To those who enjoy the pleasures of the dining table, the news may come as a relief: drastically cutting back on calories does not seem to lengthen lifespan in primates.

The verdict, from a 25-year study in rhesus monkeys fed 30% less than control animals, represents another setback for the notion that a simple, diet-triggered switch can slow ageing.

Instead, the findings, published this week in Nature^{http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/nature11432 (2012)." href="http://www.nature.com/news/calorie-restriction-falters-in-the-long-run-1.11297#b1">1}, suggest that genetics and dietary composition matter more for longevity than a simple calorie count.

“To think that a simple decrease in calories caused such a widespread change, that was remarkable,” says Don Ingram, a gerontologist at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge, who designed the study almost three decades ago while at the National Institute on Aging (NIA) in Bethesda, Maryland.

|When the NIA-funded monkey study began, however, studies of caloric restriction in short-lived animals were hinting at a connection. Experiments had showed that starvation made roundworms live longer. Other studies had showed that rats fed fewer calories than their slow and balding brethren maintained their shiny coats and a youthful vigour. And more recently, molecular studies had suggested that caloric restriction — or compounds that mimicked it — might trigger a cascade of changes in gene expression that had the net effect of slowing ageing.

In 2009, another study², which began in 1989 at the Wisconsin National Primate Research Center (WNPRC) in Madison, concluded that caloric restriction did extend life in rhesus monkeys. The investigators found that 13% of the dieting group died from age-related causes, compared with 37% of the control group.

One reason for that difference could be that the WNPRC monkeys were fed an unhealthy diet, which made the calorie-restricted monkeys seem healthier by comparison simply because they ate less of it. The WNPRC monkeys’ diets contained 28.5% sucrose, compared with 3.9% sucrose at the NIA. Meanwhile, the NIA meals included fish oil and antioxidants, whereas the WNPRC meals did not. Rick Weindruch, a gerontologist at the WNPRC who led the study, admits: “Overall, our diet was probably not as healthy.”

Further, the WNPRC control group probably ate more overall, because their meals were unlimited, whereas NIA monkeys were fed fixed amounts. As adults, control monkeys in the WNPRC study weighed more than their NIA counterparts. Overall, the WNPRC results might have reflected an unhealthy control group rather than a long-lived treatment group. “When we began these studies, the dogma was that a calorie is a calorie,” Ingram says. “I think it’s clear that the types of calories the monkeys ate made a profound difference.”

Researchers studying caloric restriction in mice have become accustomed to mixed results, which they attribute to genetic diversity among strains. Genetics probably explains part of the variation between the monkey studies, too, as the NIA monkeys were descended from lines from India and China, whereas the Wisconsin monkeys were all from India.

The molecular effects of caloric restriction have also turned out to be complicated. Using compounds such as resveratrol, found in red wine, scientists have triggered the stress response that caloric restriction activates, which shuts down non-vital processes in favour of those that ward off disease. But hopes that ageing could be delayed by targeting a single gene or protein in a single molecular pathway have faded, as researchers have learned that the key pathways vary according to the animal.“It may take us a decade to sort out longevity networks,” says David Sinclair, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts.

Meanwhile, there is a dearth of evidence that caloric restriction slows ageing in humans.

Observational studies have found that people of average weight tend to live longest³. Nir Barzilai, a gerontologist at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, says that the centenarians he studies have led him to believe that genetics is more important than diet and lifestyle. “They’re a chubby bunch,” he says.

A more nuanced picture would suit Ingram, who enjoys an occasional feast of Louisiana crawfish. Ingram says that he looks forward to studies of how diet composition, rather than caloric intake, affects ageing. “Is the human lifespan fixed?” he asks. “I still don’t believe that for a minute.”

[Edited 4/22/13 5:09am]

These were all interesting.

.

.

I'm going to continue on for the 5 weeks and see how it goes. If it disrupts my sleep, it hasn't so far in fact I seem to get sleepier on my fast day, or messes with my cycle, can't tell that yet, or anything else unusual, I won't continue on.

.

Nothing extreme, like going everyday or even several days a week without eating for a certain amount of hours and then having a big meal at the end of the day. I've learned through past experience it doesn't work as a weight loss tool, and I became even more anemic and weak. Extremes never work for me even the positive ones, something always get knocked off center that make everyday life miserable.

.

.

I going to try cutting my calories back on 2 non-consecutive days to about 500-600, spread out 3 meals a day, then continue on a regular 1,500 cal. diet for 5 days a week based on my nutritionist recommendation on how much of each group I need, plus a multi-vitamin/mineral tablet since a few things I've read state that because of the high farmer yield, most foods have dropped their nutritional value by about 10 - 25% so there is no way I'd get enough nutritional value in that amount of calories.

.

.

Plus chasing down all the good, organic foods gets tedious on a consistant bases, plus some food regardless how healthy they are simple work against my personal well being, it is what it is, and I've learned to deal with it.

imago said:

Today, I've started my intermittent fasting routine.

It's wierd, because it just doesn't feel right, since I will be able to eat tomorrow. (I've fasted before, but in a standard fast).

The issue with the standard fast is that I can't go to the gym and workout with the same amount of intensity, and the purpose of a regular fast isn't so much the weight loss/growth hormone stuff, but to heal. So, this is a far different fast for me. I guess I'll give it two months and see the results. So far, I haven't eaten since 8 am, but I'm not really thinking about it since I'm surfing porn.

OK, this shit is working. I've dropped the 5 days eat 2 days fast thing for daily fasting with a eating window (which is the preferred method for weight trainers).

9 or 10 day update?: (it's really more like day 7 or 8 for the current schedule)

1. My strength has gone up on both bench press and bicep curls.

2. My fasting schedules is that I eat between 4 PM and 10 PM ( 6 hour window ), and

fast the remainder. Since I'm sleeping at night, this means I'm really only fasting

between morning 8 AM and 4 PM. This is to accomodate my gym schedule. I work

out during my fasting hours--the first 2 days was awkward because I felt irritable

at the gym. Now, my energy is up, but this could be due to the weight loss.

3. As afore mentioned my energy has gone up, and my hunger for sweets is gone.

This always happens on any fast I've done though--so that doesn't mean this is

a permenant change.

4. I think I'm about to drop 2 inches off my waist in 2 more weeks? Possibly 4.

Who knows? At my age, it is more difficult. But my pants are noticably loser now.

I will probably change my eating hours to 10 AM to 4 PM, and hit the gym around

6 PM once the semester goes into full swing again. Either way, the gains have come

really quickly, and this method is easier to do that the 5 or 6 meals a day thing.

I don't have to disrupt my actual 'lifestyle' a great deal to do this. With the 5 or 6

meal program (which totally works--I've done it before when I was younger),

I was CONSTANTLY having to plan my meals and such.


Concerns:

1. I'm not getting enough calories. This means I'm dropping weight too quickly.

For example, in the last 8 days, I've droped 2.5 kilograms. That's too much, and

this means muscle loss according to the sources I'm reading. The odd thing is

that My muscles appear to be growing, and quickly. I almost feel like I'm on roids.
The main problem is craming enough colories into a 6 hour window is VERY difficult

for me to do, because I actually of a reduced appetite. I'm eating 30% to 50% of what

I normally ate in a day before going on IF. Additionally, I'm getting fare fewer

calories from drinks than before, which shaves more calories out. But it's too few

calories coming in now--so I need to find a fatty source of calories to offset the

fact I'm not getting enough. I'm find with 20% or 30% drop in calories, but not 50%.

2. I'm not sure how sustainable this is. I mean, when you think about it, it's really

just another workout diet like any other. What happens when you're "off season" so

to speak? Coming off the 5/6 meal thing causes weight gain. I don't see how cycling

off of this wouldn't. So, it would have to be a lifestyle change. Either way, I'm not

confident it will stick. However, I'm just trying to get fine as hell--I'm not thinking

of the future.

Ultimately, this appears to be working. I'm gaining strenght faster, working out

longer, and looking better rapidly. So, I'll keep going to see where it takes me.

Either way, I needed to do something.

IMO fasting that lasts a day or two can be healthy, long term would be detrimental to your health.

I'm not expecting anything drastic. I've already done a medically supervised 500 cal/day diet for 12 weeks, I didn't suffer any ill-effects but I was on their food supplement, some of it sweet some of it savory for taste, so that I got all my daily nutrients and I wasn't starving though I did have cravings from time to time, but I stuck with it to the end. I lost about 3 lbs a week. Nothing dynamic to write home about, but I know it's about all that my body can safely do. I know from experience that for me starving all day then eating a big meal in the evening doesn't work, my body goes into starvation mode, along with other issues including becoming even more anemic, it becomes pointless and self-defeating.

.

.

I'm sticking with the 5/2 fasting, blood pressure has gone down back to were it has always been, haven't had a blood test for the rest of it, but I know cholestrol has never been an issue with me but I am getting older, glycemic level are something I have to worry about even though I haven't hit a danger zone as of yet. All of those things I'm worry about. My nails are looking really nice, skin's nice, but that's due to the multivitamin/mineral supplement I'm taking. I see zero change in my energy level or sleeping habits I'm normally out like a light by 11/12 at night. And even though I'm spreading out my 500/600 calories on my fast days, I do get very hungry by mid day and it gets hard. One thing I've learned is to not drink juice as part of my calorie intake on those days, I'm starving afterwards, it's just better for me to eat a piece of fruit instead. Haven't weight myself cause I'm not expect dramatic weekly results, but I have lost some, I have to buy new under garments, things are getting too loose.

morningsong said:

I'm not expecting anything drastic. I've already done a medically supervised 500 cal/day diet for 12 weeks, I didn't suffer any ill-effects but I was on their food supplement, some of it sweet some of it savory for taste, so that I got all my daily nutrients and I wasn't starving though I did have cravings from time to time, but I stuck with it to the end. I lost about 3 lbs a week. Nothing dynamic to write home about, but I know it's about all that my body can safely do. I know from experience that for me starving all day then eating a big meal in the evening doesn't work, my body goes into starvation mode, along with other issues including becoming even more anemic, it becomes pointless and self-defeating.

.

.

I'm sticking with the 5/2 fasting, blood pressure has gone down back to were it has always been, haven't had a blood test for the rest of it, but I know cholestrol has never been an issue with me but I am getting older, glycemic level are something I have to worry about even though I haven't hit a danger zone as of yet. All of those things I'm worry about. My nails are looking really nice, skin's nice, but that's due to the multivitamin/mineral supplement I'm taking. I see zero change in my energy level or sleeping habits I'm normally out like a light by 11/12 at night. And even though I'm spreading out my 500/600 calories on my fast days, I do get very hungry by mid day and it gets hard. One thing I've learned is to not drink juice as part of my calorie intake on those days, I'm starving afterwards, it's just better for me to eat a piece of fruit instead. Haven't weight myself cause I'm not expect dramatic weekly results, but I have lost some, I have to buy new under garments, things are getting too loose.

Have you thought about juicing raw vegetables to replace regular meals (some of them on a permanent basis)? I don't believe in starving one's self to death. I cut out all junk foods and most prepared foods about three to four years ago. Without fasting, dieting, etc. It is really amazing on what little one can live on to actually live and be healthy. But long term fasting is not the answer for permanent weight loss and being healthy. Occasional fasting is fine... But, especially when you get older and if you suffer from health problems such as high blood pressure or diabeties, you can't keep up long term fasting and remain healthy. The health benefits from occasional fasting and reduced calorie load can backfire on you. The change has to be a lifestyle one--there is no substitute for eating healthy small meals every day and getting enough exercise. It is pure science, you have to input enough healthy calories (enegy input) every day to keep the body functioning and burn them off in a healthy way (energy output).

imago said:

imago said:

Today, I've started my intermittent fasting routine.

It's wierd, because it just doesn't feel right, since I will be able to eat tomorrow. (I've fasted before, but in a standard fast).

The issue with the standard fast is that I can't go to the gym and workout with the same amount of intensity, and the purpose of a regular fast isn't so much the weight loss/growth hormone stuff, but to heal. So, this is a far different fast for me. I guess I'll give it two months and see the results. So far, I haven't eaten since 8 am, but I'm not really thinking about it since I'm surfing porn.

OK, this shit is working. I've dropped the 5 days eat 2 days fast thing for daily fasting with a eating window (which is the preferred method for weight trainers).

9 or 10 day update?: (it's really more like day 7 or 8 for the current schedule)

1. My strength has gone up on both bench press and bicep curls.

2. My fasting schedules is that I eat between 4 PM and 10 PM ( 6 hour window ), and

fast the remainder. Since I'm sleeping at night, this means I'm really only fasting

between morning 8 AM and 4 PM. This is to accomodate my gym schedule. I work

out during my fasting hours--the first 2 days was awkward because I felt irritable

at the gym. Now, my energy is up, but this could be due to the weight loss.

3. As afore mentioned my energy has gone up, and my hunger for sweets is gone.

This always happens on any fast I've done though--so that doesn't mean this is

a permenant change.

4. I think I'm about to drop 2 inches off my waist in 2 more weeks? Possibly 4.

Who knows? At my age, it is more difficult. But my pants are noticably loser now.

I will probably change my eating hours to 10 AM to 4 PM, and hit the gym around

6 PM once the semester goes into full swing again. Either way, the gains have come

really quickly, and this method is easier to do that the 5 or 6 meals a day thing.

I don't have to disrupt my actual 'lifestyle' a great deal to do this. With the 5 or 6

meal program (which totally works--I've done it before when I was younger),

I was CONSTANTLY having to plan my meals and such.


Concerns:

1. I'm not getting enough calories. This means I'm dropping weight too quickly.

For example, in the last 8 days, I've droped 2.5 kilograms. That's too much, and

this means muscle loss according to the sources I'm reading. The odd thing is

that My muscles appear to be growing, and quickly. I almost feel like I'm on roids.
The main problem is craming enough colories into a 6 hour window is VERY difficult

for me to do, because I actually of a reduced appetite. I'm eating 30% to 50% of what

I normally ate in a day before going on IF. Additionally, I'm getting fare fewer

calories from drinks than before, which shaves more calories out. But it's too few

calories coming in now--so I need to find a fatty source of calories to offset the

fact I'm not getting enough. I'm find with 20% or 30% drop in calories, but not 50%.

2. I'm not sure how sustainable this is. I mean, when you think about it, it's really

just another workout diet like any other. What happens when you're "off season" so

to speak? Coming off the 5/6 meal thing causes weight gain. I don't see how cycling

off of this wouldn't. So, it would have to be a lifestyle change. Either way, I'm not

confident it will stick. However, I'm just trying to get fine as hell--I'm not thinking

of the future.

Ultimately, this appears to be working. I'm gaining strenght faster, working out

longer, and looking better rapidly. So, I'll keep going to see where it takes me.

Either way, I needed to do something.

you have lost some fat and probably a lot of water so your muscles look more defined I would be guessing

ZombieKitten said:

imago said:

OK, this shit is working. I've dropped the 5 days eat 2 days fast thing for daily fasting with a eating window (which is the preferred method for weight trainers).

9 or 10 day update?: (it's really more like day 7 or 8 for the current schedule)

1. My strength has gone up on both bench press and bicep curls.

2. My fasting schedules is that I eat between 4 PM and 10 PM ( 6 hour window ), and

fast the remainder. Since I'm sleeping at night, this means I'm really only fasting

between morning 8 AM and 4 PM. This is to accomodate my gym schedule. I work

out during my fasting hours--the first 2 days was awkward because I felt irritable

at the gym. Now, my energy is up, but this could be due to the weight loss.

3. As afore mentioned my energy has gone up, and my hunger for sweets is gone.

This always happens on any fast I've done though--so that doesn't mean this is

a permenant change.

4. I think I'm about to drop 2 inches off my waist in 2 more weeks? Possibly 4.

Who knows? At my age, it is more difficult. But my pants are noticably loser now.

I will probably change my eating hours to 10 AM to 4 PM, and hit the gym around

6 PM once the semester goes into full swing again. Either way, the gains have come

really quickly, and this method is easier to do that the 5 or 6 meals a day thing.

I don't have to disrupt my actual 'lifestyle' a great deal to do this. With the 5 or 6

meal program (which totally works--I've done it before when I was younger),

I was CONSTANTLY having to plan my meals and such.


Concerns:

1. I'm not getting enough calories. This means I'm dropping weight too quickly.

For example, in the last 8 days, I've droped 2.5 kilograms. That's too much, and

this means muscle loss according to the sources I'm reading. The odd thing is

that My muscles appear to be growing, and quickly. I almost feel like I'm on roids.
The main problem is craming enough colories into a 6 hour window is VERY difficult

for me to do, because I actually of a reduced appetite. I'm eating 30% to 50% of what

I normally ate in a day before going on IF. Additionally, I'm getting fare fewer

calories from drinks than before, which shaves more calories out. But it's too few

calories coming in now--so I need to find a fatty source of calories to offset the

fact I'm not getting enough. I'm find with 20% or 30% drop in calories, but not 50%.

2. I'm not sure how sustainable this is. I mean, when you think about it, it's really

just another workout diet like any other. What happens when you're "off season" so

to speak? Coming off the 5/6 meal thing causes weight gain. I don't see how cycling

off of this wouldn't. So, it would have to be a lifestyle change. Either way, I'm not

confident it will stick. However, I'm just trying to get fine as hell--I'm not thinking

of the future.

Ultimately, this appears to be working. I'm gaining strenght faster, working out

longer, and looking better rapidly. So, I'll keep going to see where it takes me.

Either way, I needed to do something.

you have lost some fat and probably a lot of water so your muscles look more defined I would be guessing

Yup. Muscles don't grow that fast and most certainly not while eating a deficit of calories.

purplethunder3121 said:

morningsong said:

I'm not expecting anything drastic. I've already done a medically supervised 500 cal/day diet for 12 weeks, I didn't suffer any ill-effects but I was on their food supplement, some of it sweet some of it savory for taste, so that I got all my daily nutrients and I wasn't starving though I did have cravings from time to time, but I stuck with it to the end. I lost about 3 lbs a week. Nothing dynamic to write home about, but I know it's about all that my body can safely do. I know from experience that for me starving all day then eating a big meal in the evening doesn't work, my body goes into starvation mode, along with other issues including becoming even more anemic, it becomes pointless and self-defeating.

.

.

I'm sticking with the 5/2 fasting, blood pressure has gone down back to were it has always been, haven't had a blood test for the rest of it, but I know cholestrol has never been an issue with me but I am getting older, glycemic level are something I have to worry about even though I haven't hit a danger zone as of yet. All of those things I'm worry about. My nails are looking really nice, skin's nice, but that's due to the multivitamin/mineral supplement I'm taking. I see zero change in my energy level or sleeping habits I'm normally out like a light by 11/12 at night. And even though I'm spreading out my 500/600 calories on my fast days, I do get very hungry by mid day and it gets hard. One thing I've learned is to not drink juice as part of my calorie intake on those days, I'm starving afterwards, it's just better for me to eat a piece of fruit instead. Haven't weight myself cause I'm not expect dramatic weekly results, but I have lost some, I have to buy new under garments, things are getting too loose.

Have you thought about juicing raw vegetables to replace regular meals (some of them on a permanent basis)? I don't believe in starving one's self to death. I cut out all junk foods and most prepared foods about three to four years ago. Without fasting, dieting, etc. It is really amazing on what little one can live on to actually live and be healthy. But long term fasting is not the answer for permanent weight loss and being healthy. Occasional fasting is fine... But, especially when you get older and if you suffer from health problems such as high blood pressure or diabeties, you can't keep up long term fasting and remain healthy. The health benefits from occasional fasting and reduced calorie load can backfire on you. The change has to be a lifestyle one--there is no substitute for eating healthy small meals every day and getting enough exercise. It is pure science, you have to input enough healthy calories (enegy input) every day to keep the body functioning and burn them off in a healthy way (energy output).

I wouldn't consider going a couple days hunger starving myself, people have been doing it for millenia and the human race has survived pretty well intact. One thing it is, is free, I don't need any special equipment or supplies, I don't need to go anywhere special, I don't need to make a lot of effort at all. Which is one of the problems I'd have with juicing right now, I'd have to go out and buy something, and have it be of quality. Let alone the time of prepartation and clean up 7 days a week. I would need to always have a decent supply of fresh fruits and vegetables on hand everyday. It would be fun a couple of times but I see that becoming tedious in a couple of weeks, consistancy is a major issue with anything.

.

Another problem I have is the amount of fruits and veggies to make a serving a juice. I know it takes about 5 to 7 oranges to make 8oz of orange juice, that is far too many fruit calories for someone of 5'2" to 5'3" to consume in a day, unless they are a complete vegetarian, I have no interest in rearranging my lifestyle, I'm omnivorious and I plan on staying that way. Even using a excellent juicer (and here we go at spending money) you're still consuming a lot of calories in one sitting, that's fine for people who really don't like to eat, but that's not me. Eating an orange or carrot or a serving of spinach works far better for me than drinking it. I like vegetables, fixed properly I have no problem eating them.

.

Heck a half head of Romaine is only 53 calories, add a mix of other vegetables, a little dressing you may get close to 150 calories or slightly over, that's one meal on a fasting day, eating that would be far more satisfying than drinking it. The cereal I eat everyday is 120 calories per serving, almond milk 1/2 cup is 20 calories, that still leaves it 210/310 calories to spread for the rest of the day a couple of times a week, which I make up with cheese, nuts, fruit, it's not filling but it's not absolutely starving either. The rest of the week is just normal.

.

As far as the big chronic diseases go, I don't suffer from any yet, but I'm a good candidate for them so I'm taking it seriously.