Genesia said:

CarrieMpls said:

Well certainly speaking other languages when it is warranted is a given. And paying attention to vocabulary when speaking to very small children makes sense. For older children I wouldn’t worry as they should be learning something by hearing a bigger vocabulary.

The rest? I guess I don’t see how changing the way I speak will help anyone understand me. I can’t imagine using words my plumber wouldn’t understand as we’re going to be talking about a sink or a pipe or something. Chances are he’s going to have to explain his vocabulary to me (as I’m NOT a plumber).

I guess I just don’t understand a circumstance in which I’d change how I generally communicate. It’s foreign to me.

Well put.

Pre-emptively changing the way you speak because you think someone isn't going to understand you is the worst kind of snobbery. At the age of 9, I had a larger vocabulary than most adults. If some grown-up had talked down to me then, I'd've looked at them like

And, as Tina said, the fact that someone chose to work with his hands for a living doesn't mean s/he is dumb. As an example, my dad never went to college - he was drafted into the military at 18 and needed to start making a living as soon as his hitch was up. He started as an auto mechanic, then worked his way into sales, and ultimately owned his own leasing company. He came from nothing (his father worked for the county highway department and his mother worked as a cook) and retired on over a million bucks. "Uneducated"? In the traditional sense of the word, perhaps. Stupid and in need of "simple" communication? Not hardly.

Although, I suppose if your "educated language" consists entirely of intellectual mumbo jumbo and bullshit, you might want to change the way you speak - lest the stupes you're talking to laugh in your face.

It just means they have talents I wish I had .

CarrieMpls said:

Dave1992 said:

I'm a fan of people who know how and when to use both.

I love it when people have slightly sophisticated accents and simply know their shit, but it also takes a lot of talent and intuition to know when a situation or conversation requires talking in a more colloquial accent, so that the counterpart might feel more comfortable, perhaps.

My accent (both in English and German) shifts all the time. At uni, I use proper Oxford English, but when I'm around friends who speak English and the setting is casual, I often drift into a bit of a cockney accent. It's the same with German. People usually tell me how strikingly "correct" my German is, but when I talk to someone who clearly talks in a more colloquial accent only, I throw in a bit of Viennese slang (although I'm not very good at that, I must admit).

When I hear people shift their accent or way of talking based on who they're talking to it often sounds very affected and frankly quite phony. It can also come off as downright condescending.

Not saying you are, of course. Just sharing how it usually comes off to me.

tinaz said:

Dave1992 said:

I think it's way more condescending if you continue talking in your educated accent, using fancy words and stuff, when you're talking to someone who clearly is not as educated as you / grew up in a community where these accents/words were not used.

It is natural that speakers adapt their accents to one another and, if done properly and not forcedly, it can make a conversation more natural and help eliminate some (linguistic/cultural/social) barriers.

I guess, with me, half it happens subconsciously, and the other half I do on purpose (for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber).

If the purpose is to try to be "cool" or "educated" (when you usually aren't), then I fully agree with you.
If, however, the only purpose is to simplify the sharing of information and to abolish some sort of barriers then I can't see how it can seem uncomfortable.

Dave,

Just because one is a plumber DOES NOT mean they are uneducated and you need to "dumb" it down for them...

Most plumbers make more money than any fool who who can go to Uni and cant find a job once they get out...

Serious said:

Genesia said:

Well put.

Pre-emptively changing the way you speak because you think someone isn't going to understand you is the worst kind of snobbery. At the age of 9, I had a larger vocabulary than most adults. If some grown-up had talked down to me then, I'd've looked at them like

And, as Tina said, the fact that someone chose to work with his hands for a living doesn't mean s/he is dumb. As an example, my dad never went to college - he was drafted into the military at 18 and needed to start making a living as soon as his hitch was up. He started as an auto mechanic, then worked his way into sales, and ultimately owned his own leasing company. He came from nothing (his father worked for the county highway department and his mother worked as a cook) and retired on over a million bucks. "Uneducated"? In the traditional sense of the word, perhaps. Stupid and in need of "simple" communication? Not hardly.

Although, I suppose if your "educated language" consists entirely of intellectual mumbo jumbo and bullshit, you might want to change the way you speak - lest the stupes you're talking to laugh in your face.

It just means they have talents I wish I had .

Ain't that the truth? I make a decent living as a writer, but I could've made a lot more as a plumber or mechanic.

Although I don't think I'd've enjoyed snaking out somebody's disgusting drain or toilet.

Genesia said:

Serious said:

It just means they have talents I wish I had .

Ain't that the truth? I make a decent living as a writer, but I could've made a lot more as a plumber or mechanic.

Although I don't think I'd've enjoyed snaking out somebody's disgusting drain or toilet.

But it would be awesome if I could sneak out my own . And I'd much rather sneak out somebody elses than be a dentist for example and clean their teeth.

Serious said:

Genesia said:

Ain't that the truth? I make a decent living as a writer, but I could've made a lot more as a plumber or mechanic.

Although I don't think I'd've enjoyed snaking out somebody's disgusting drain or toilet.

But it would be awesome if I could sneak out my own . And I'd much rather sneak out somebody elses than be a dentist for example and clean their teeth.

I actually did snake my own drain a couple weeks ago. Even though I knew that was all my own hair (I pulled up an old contact lens, too), it was still disgusting.

I can also replace a faucet and I've installed my own dimmer switches. I got just enough of my dad's mechanical ability.

Genesia said:

Serious said:

But it would be awesome if I could sneak out my own . And I'd much rather sneak out somebody elses than be a dentist for example and clean their teeth.

I actually did snake my own drain a couple weeks ago. Even though I knew that was all my own hair (I pulled up an old contact lens, too), it was still disgusting.

I can also replace a faucet and I've installed my own dimmer switches. I got just enough of my dad's mechanical ability.

Lucky you

Excellent examples:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/...n=20130411

From the article:

There's a lesson in here. Probably several. But the one that stands out to me is this: I can understand you just fine if you speak to me as you. If you speak to me as if you're me, we'll both end up confused.

TD3 said:

Dave1992 said:

You have the wrong picture of it. It's not about making yourself feel comfortable and "fitting in", it's about making communicationg easier for the other person you are talking to.

Here, what I've written before:

"...for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber"

It's as simple as that, really. No "trying to belong to a group of people" or some shit like that, it's simply making communication as efficient and successful as possible.

And, apart from that: what does "being oneself" really mean? If someone only has one accent, one style of speech they can naturally use, they'll find it difficult to get along with different kinds of people. Just because someone masters different accents, languages, sets of vocabulary etc., it doesn't mean they are lying or trying to belong somewhere they don't.

I agree with Dave. There's always been a Black dialect/slang vs the King's English... I had to know both. Ultimately what you are trying to do is communicate with others, find common understanding and exchange ideas. Even in the professional/public realm you need to cater your language so everyone has a clear understanding of what you're trying to say. Among colleagues speaking to one another in legalese is expected and proper. If you are speaking to a group of laymen who probably would understand all the legal terms you are using; why forge ahead with communicating in that way in which people wouldn't understand what you said?

This is definitely true for me. A very interesting thing that is happening to me after being in Europe for so long is that it is greatly affecting the accent in my King's English as taught in the U.S., (because they speak British English here) ---my immediate social circle is made up of black American women expats (with German spouses), and we immediately revert to slang almost any and all times we communicate amongst each other spoken and written speech (regardless of what US region we hail from individually). My black dialect/slang is always in the forefront of my mind, practically 24/7, even while living in the continental EU. To hear me speaking casually with girlfriends I sound like someone's grandmother from another era . My standard English, however, has been accented in some cases with the British sounding "a", and with random German words thrown in from just being confused all the damn time...we refer to it as "Denglisch" over here

Ottensen said:

TD3 said:

I agree with Dave. There's always been a Black dialect/slang vs the King's English... I had to know both. Ultimately what you are trying to do is communicate with others, find common understanding and exchange ideas. Even in the professional/public realm you need to cater your language so everyone has a clear understanding of what you're trying to say. Among colleagues speaking to one another in legalese is expected and proper. If you are speaking to a group of laymen who probably would understand all the legal terms you are using; why forge ahead with communicating in that way in which people wouldn't understand what you said?

This is definitely true for me. A very interesting thing that is happening to me after being in Europe for so long is that it is greatly affecting the accent in my King's English as taught in the U.S., (because they speak British English here) ---my immediate social circle is made up of black American women expats (with German spouses), and we immediately revert to slang almost any and all times we communicate amongst each other spoken and written speech (regardless of what US region we hail from individually). My black dialect/slang is always in the forefront of my mind, practically 24/7, even while living in the continental EU. To hear me speaking casually with girlfriends I sound like someone's grandmother from another era . My standard English, however, has been accented in some cases with the British sounding "a", and with random German words thrown in from just being confused all the damn time...we refer to it as "Denglisch" over here

Undoubtedly because of race and culture you are coming at this from a very different angle than I am and I totally appreciate that. In all cases, you are still being your authentic self. This is when I can understand when and why codeswitching is valuable.

If I walked into a circle of you and your girlfriends and attempted to emulate your speech I'd likely be (rightfully) laughed out of the room. Heck, I'd laugh myself out of the room.

I get a kick out of elitists.

JustErin said:

I get a kick out of elitists.

Genesia said:

CarrieMpls said:

Well certainly speaking other languages when it is warranted is a given. And paying attention to vocabulary when speaking to very small children makes sense. For older children I wouldn’t worry as they should be learning something by hearing a bigger vocabulary.

The rest? I guess I don’t see how changing the way I speak will help anyone understand me. I can’t imagine using words my plumber wouldn’t understand as we’re going to be talking about a sink or a pipe or something. Chances are he’s going to have to explain his vocabulary to me (as I’m NOT a plumber).

I guess I just don’t understand a circumstance in which I’d change how I generally communicate. It’s foreign to me.

Well put.

Preemptively changing the way you speak because you think someone isn't going to understand you is the worst kind of snobbery. At the age of 9, I had a larger vocabulary than most adults. If some grown-up had talked down to me then, I'd've looked at them like

And, as Tina said, the fact that someone chose to work with his hands for a living doesn't mean s/he is dumb. As an example, my dad never went to college - he was drafted into the military at 18 and needed to start making a living as soon as his hitch was up. He started as an auto mechanic, then worked his way into sales, and ultimately owned his own leasing company. He came from nothing (his father worked for the county highway department and his mother worked as a cook) and retired on over a million bucks. "Uneducated"? In the traditional sense of the word, perhaps. Stupid and in need of "simple" communication? Not hardly.

Although, I suppose if your "educated language" consists entirely of intellectual mumbo jumbo and bullshit, you might want to change the way you speak - lest the stupes you're talking to laugh in your face.

I agree and well said...

Speeding reading through a post and assuming words you've glanced over meant what your thoughts were... caused miscommunication, my bad...

Ultimately the point I was trying say and fail miserable at it is, it is importance what you say and how you say it in a linear conversation. Irrespective of ones profession and/or trade-all jobs encompass its own abbreviated words, lingo, and technical terms. All of use could carry on a conversation within our respective professions which would leave those who may not be familiar with are job in a fog of what we meant and/or was talking about. Tailor your conversation so everyone knows what you are speaking of; that was point I was trying to make.

===================================

[Edited 4/11/13 13:50pm]

CarrieMpls said:

Well certainly speaking other languages when it is warranted is a given. And paying attention to vocabulary when speaking to very small children makes sense. For older children I wouldn’t worry as they should be learning something by hearing a bigger vocabulary.

The rest? I guess I don’t see how changing the way I speak will help anyone understand me. I can’t imagine using words my plumber wouldn’t understand as we’re going to be talking about a sink or a pipe or something. Chances are he’s going to have to explain his vocabulary to me (as I’m NOT a plumber).

I guess I just don’t understand a circumstance in which I’d change how I generally communicate. It’s foreign to me.

[Edited 4/11/13 6:54am]

There you go. Your plumber might want to make sure he adapts his vocabulary to that of a regular person (=his customer), so that there's mutual understanding from the start. This isn't about power, it's about practicality and respect.

Genesia said:

CarrieMpls said:

Well certainly speaking other languages when it is warranted is a given. And paying attention to vocabulary when speaking to very small children makes sense. For older children I wouldn’t worry as they should be learning something by hearing a bigger vocabulary.

The rest? I guess I don’t see how changing the way I speak will help anyone understand me. I can’t imagine using words my plumber wouldn’t understand as we’re going to be talking about a sink or a pipe or something. Chances are he’s going to have to explain his vocabulary to me (as I’m NOT a plumber).

I guess I just don’t understand a circumstance in which I’d change how I generally communicate. It’s foreign to me.

Well put.

Pre-emptively changing the way you speak because you think someone isn't going to understand you is the worst kind of snobbery. At the age of 9, I had a larger vocabulary than most adults. If some grown-up had talked down to me then, I'd've looked at them like

And, as Tina said, the fact that someone chose to work with his hands for a living doesn't mean s/he is dumb. As an example, my dad never went to college - he was drafted into the military at 18 and needed to start making a living as soon as his hitch was up. He started as an auto mechanic, then worked his way into sales, and ultimately owned his own leasing company. He came from nothing (his father worked for the county highway department and his mother worked as a cook) and retired on over a million bucks. "Uneducated"? In the traditional sense of the word, perhaps. Stupid and in need of "simple" communication? Not hardly.

Although, I suppose if your "educated language" consists entirely of intellectual mumbo jumbo and bullshit, you might want to change the way you speak - lest the stupes you're talking to laugh in your face.

Who's talking about "pre-emptive change"?


This discussion concerns adjustment and adapting to one another.


And, come on, you're starting to split hairs with your defence of "uneducated" people. I was hardly offending anyone specific and I think it's quite common-semsical that I used the profession of a "plumber" in a figurative way. My argument would have sounded quite illogical if I had put "salesman" in there instead, wouldn't it. So, please, get off your high horse.

Genesia said:

JustErin said:

I get a kick out of elitists.

Well, hey...I know that everyone tends to be elitist in one way or another....but the idea of someone feeling the need to dumb it down, particularly as a response to someone's accent is pretty hilarious to me.

Serious said:

Dave1992 said:

You have the wrong picture of it. It's not about making yourself feel comfortable and "fitting in", it's about making communicationg easier for the other person you are talking to.

Here, what I've written before:

"...for instance avoid loanwords when talking to children, avoid deep slang when talking to my grandfather, avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber"

It's as simple as that, really. No "trying to belong to a group of people" or some shit like that, it's simply making communication as efficient and successful as possible.

And, apart from that: what does "being oneself" really mean? If someone only has one accent, one style of speech they can naturally use, they'll find it difficult to get along with different kinds of people. Just because someone masters different accents, languages, sets of vocabulary etc., it doesn't mean they are lying or trying to belong somewhere they don't.

I don't think it's about wanting to belong to a group but about how I would make the other person feel. I talk pretty much the same no matter if I talk to my plumber, my doctor, my over 80 year old mum, a child or to you . I just switch between German and English depending who I am talking to. And contrary to what you say it is very easy for me to get along with all kind of people .
For me it would feel as if I am judging the other person if I see the need to adapt to their way of speaking to make the conversation easier for them. People who do that come across as not natural and arrogant very easily. Children love to ask questions and I am more than willing to explain certain words they might not have heard before. And there is nothing more degrading IMO than using not proper more simple grammar usually combined with using "du" instead of "sie" towards somebody who is not perfect in German. I never ever do that. People understand me just fine the way I talk to them, no need to "downgrade" or "upgrade" my way of talking in any way. And it's quite easy to get it if a certain way of speaking might indeed be a problem for somebody I am talking to.
The only exception is if I have to use special terms like when I talk to a lawyer and use certain latin words for example or if I need to give a perfectly educated impression towards somebody for certain reasons. Or if somebody who is not very educated is an asshole and I use words on purpose who that person might not be familiar with to give him/her the feeling I am superior. I also talk pretty much the same to all my friends no matter if they are collegue graduates with a career in law or medicine or cleaning women, no matter if the talk "Hochdeutsch" like I do or use slang. Apart from the fact that my Viennese accent sucks and usually makes people laugh as my pronounciation is kinda funny I could easily switch between more "simple" kind of talking when talking to a child or plumber to use your example and a more "educated style" like when I switch between German and English, but I avoid to do that as I would be afraid to give the child or plumber the feeling that I look down on them and consider them too stupid to understand what I am saying. I cannot stand adults using baby language talking to babies or small children for example. Neither children nor plumbers are stupid, so why would I treat them as if they were ?

I believe you're overthinking matters. Again, this is not about power or stereotypes, it's about sheer practicality.

If I talk about music with my musician friends, my vocabulary will be more elaborate and theoretical, talking about scales and what not. If I talk about that same song with my best friend, I won't say "see, I love how the bass goes down in semi-tone steps while the melody goes in the major scale of the dominant". I will put it differently, more simply, and illustrate what I mean.

I just came back from a kick-about where all people basically use slang. In football culture, it would sound downgrading and arrogant if I used the same kind of language I use at university. It's not about belonging to a group or pretending I do so, it's about making the experience for everyone as natural as possible. I get along with those people brilliantly, and I do adapt my language whenever I play with them. I'm convinced the atmosphere would be different (weird and tense) if I didn't adapt my language to theirs whenever I play with them. That would be arrogant.

"Please, Sir, would thou care to pass the round ball of leather to my very right foot?"

[Edited 4/11/13 13:20pm]

CarrieMpls said:

Excellent examples:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/...n=20130411

From the article:

There's a lesson in here. Probably several. But the one that stands out to me is this: I can understand you just fine if you speak to me as you. If you speak to me as if you're me, we'll both end up confused.

The article seems to interpret code-switching as if it were some kind of act. Why can't a person be themself and be able to use more accents appropriately? There's a professional side to us, there's a down-time side to us, as is to our language.

CarrieMpls said:

Ottensen said:

This is definitely true for me. A very interesting thing that is happening to me after being in Europe for so long is that it is greatly affecting the accent in my King's English as taught in the U.S., (because they speak British English here) ---my immediate social circle is made up of black American women expats (with German spouses), and we immediately revert to slang almost any and all times we communicate amongst each other spoken and written speech (regardless of what US region we hail from individually). My black dialect/slang is always in the forefront of my mind, practically 24/7, even while living in the continental EU. To hear me speaking casually with girlfriends I sound like someone's grandmother from another era . My standard English, however, has been accented in some cases with the British sounding "a", and with random German words thrown in from just being confused all the damn time...we refer to it as "Denglisch" over here

Undoubtedly because of race and culture you are coming at this from a very different angle than I am and I totally appreciate that. In all cases, you are still being your authentic self. This is when I can understand when and why codeswitching is valuable.

If I walked into a circle of you and your girlfriends and attempted to emulate your speech I'd likely be (rightfully) laughed out of the room. Heck, I'd laugh myself out of the room.

It's a new day. I'm certain I'm not the only one who's noticed how slang has crept into work / main stream society in a way that would've raised some eyebrows two decades ago. Things are said in passing conversation and everyone keeps it moving. A couple of years ago I would've given you my side eye, now for the most part I just chuckle.

To speak to Ottie's point about accents: Southern's will tell you still when they move up to the north or to attend university many people think of a southern accent = ignorance.

JustErin said:

Genesia said:

Well, hey...I know that everyone tends to be elitist in one way or another....but the idea of someone feeling the need to dumb it down, particularly as a response to someone's accent is pretty hilarious to me.

You got a bit confused there... Shall I dumb it down for you?

Y'all (no pun intended) are all getting carried away a bit with your thoughts of "let's save the working class from those bad elitists" and are therefore completely missing the point.

If you want to discuss how intelligent a plumber can be, create a new thread. There, I will be the first one to agree that a profession doesn't tell you anything about a person's IQ or range or vocabulary.

Here, this do-gooder bullshit is completely unnecessary, because we're actually discussing something completely different. You're using your jumping to the defence of my stereotypical argument as a way to generate popularity and pretend you have overthrown my opinion, when in case you're actually avoiding the main discussion.

But, alas, forsooth we should all just fuckin chill.


.

[Edited 4/11/13 13:15pm]

Dave1992 said:

If I talk about music with my musician friends, my vocabulary will be more elaborate and theoretical, talking about scales and what not. If I talk about that same song with my best friend, I won't say "see, I love how the bass goes down in semi-tone steps while the melodie goes in the major scale of the dominant". I will put it differently, more simply, and illustrate what I mean.

This makes perfect sense to me.

Dave1992 said:

Genesia said:

Well put.

Pre-emptively changing the way you speak because you think someone isn't going to understand you is the worst kind of snobbery. At the age of 9, I had a larger vocabulary than most adults. If some grown-up had talked down to me then, I'd've looked at them like

And, as Tina said, the fact that someone chose to work with his hands for a living doesn't mean s/he is dumb. As an example, my dad never went to college - he was drafted into the military at 18 and needed to start making a living as soon as his hitch was up. He started as an auto mechanic, then worked his way into sales, and ultimately owned his own leasing company. He came from nothing (his father worked for the county highway department and his mother worked as a cook) and retired on over a million bucks. "Uneducated"? In the traditional sense of the word, perhaps. Stupid and in need of "simple" communication? Not hardly.

Although, I suppose if your "educated language" consists entirely of intellectual mumbo jumbo and bullshit, you might want to change the way you speak - lest the stupes you're talking to laugh in your face.

Who's talking about "pre-emptive change"?


This discussion concerns adjustment and adapting to one another.


And, come on, you're starting to split hairs with your defence of "uneducated" people. I was hardly offending anyone specific and I think it's quite common-semsical that I used the profession of a "plumber" in a figurative way. My argument would have sounded quite illogical if I had put "salesman" in there instead, wouldn't it. So, please, get off your high horse.

You are talking about a pre-emptive change when you say (and I quote), "avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber." How do you know you need to avoid that sort of language? (Somehow, I doubt you even have a plumber.)

Not only is it not "common-semsical" (good spelling on a made-up word there, Dave. Your university education at work?), it is flat-out wrong. You made an (erroneous) assumption about the intellectual capacity of of someone who works with his hands.

And, no - "salesman" wouldn't have been any better. What kind of salesman? The guy selling roses at Bunkers? Or someone who sells packaging to scientific concerns? (My sweetie does that - he has a degree in biochemistry.)

As usual, you try to set yourself above others - and just end up embarrassing yourself.

Genesia said:

Dave1992 said:

Who's talking about "pre-emptive change"?


This discussion concerns adjustment and adapting to one another.


And, come on, you're starting to split hairs with your defence of "uneducated" people. I was hardly offending anyone specific and I think it's quite common-semsical that I used the profession of a "plumber" in a figurative way. My argument would have sounded quite illogical if I had put "salesman" in there instead, wouldn't it. So, please, get off your high horse.

You are talking about a pre-emptive change when you say (and I quote), "avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber." How do you know you need to avoid that sort of language? (Somehow, I doubt you even have a plumber.)

Not only is it not "common-semsical" (good spelling on a made-up word there, Dave. Your university education at work?), it is flat-out wrong. You made an (erroneous) assumption about the intellectual capacity of of someone who works with his hands.

And, no - "salesman" wouldn't have been any better. What kind of salesman? The guy selling roses at Bunkers? Or someone who sells packaging to scientific concerns? (My sweetie does that - he has a degree in biochemistry.)

As usual, you try to set yourself above others - and just end up embarrassing yourself.

Do you know whether I know my plumber before I talk to him? You just assume for the sake of your argument?

You're becoming extremely ridiculous now, talking about a typo from a created adjective (common sense + non-sensical... I thought you'd be intelligent enough to figure that out).

I didn't make any assumption, I merely used a fucking stereotype. Don't pretend you're that stupid.

And no, I do not, as usually, try to set myself above anyone, apart from maybe nitpicking, querulous people like you. You have been rambling on about my use of one bloody example and have added absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand. Add to that your cheap attempt of a dig at me and we have another one of Genesia's pseudo-intellectual outbursts, trying to put people in their places, playing the oh-so fair-minded and lawful one. I'm baffled you're actually really following through with this shit.

Dave1992 said:

Genesia said:

You are talking about a pre-emptive change when you say (and I quote), "avoid educated university language when talking to my plumber." How do you know you need to avoid that sort of language? (Somehow, I doubt you even have a plumber.)

Not only is it not "common-semsical" (good spelling on a made-up word there, Dave. Your university education at work?), it is flat-out wrong. You made an (erroneous) assumption about the intellectual capacity of of someone who works with his hands.

And, no - "salesman" wouldn't have been any better. What kind of salesman? The guy selling roses at Bunkers? Or someone who sells packaging to scientific concerns? (My sweetie does that - he has a degree in biochemistry.)

As usual, you try to set yourself above others - and just end up embarrassing yourself.

Do you know whether I know my plumber before I talk to him? You just assume for the sake of your argument?

You're becoming extremely ridiculous now, talking about a typo from a created adjective (common sense + non-sensical... I thought you'd be intelligent enough to figure that out).

I didn't make any assumption, I merely used a fucking stereotype. Don't pretend you're that stupid.

And no, I do not, as usually, try to set myself above anyone, apart from maybe nitpicking, querulous people like you. You have been rambling on about my use of one bloody example and have added absolutely nothing to the discussion at hand. Add to that your cheap attempt of a dig at me and we have another one of Genesia's pseudo-intellectual outbursts, trying to put people in their places, playing the oh-so fair-minded and lawful one. I'm baffled you're actually really following through with this shit.

What is a stereotype but an assumption? Therein lies your offense.

You know your plumber despite never having spoken to him? That's a neat trick. Perhaps you just assume you know him.

Of course, I know what common-sensical means. That does not preclude my thinking that it's hoity-toity bullshit.

The first step in getting out of your hole is to quit digging, Dave.

Dave1992 said:

Y'all (no pun intended) are all getting carried away a bit with your thoughts of "let's save the working class from those bad elitists" and are therefore completely missing the point.

If you want to discuss how intelligent a plumber can be, create a new thread. There, I will be the first one to agree that a profession doesn't tell you anything about a person's IQ or range or vocabulary.

Here, this do-gooder bullshit is completely unnecessary, because we're actually discussing something completely different. You're using your jumping to the defence of my stereotypical argument as a way to generate popularity and pretend you have overthrown my opinion, when in case you're actually avoiding the main discussion.

But, alas, forsooth we should all just fuckin chill.


.

[Edited 4/11/13 13:15pm]

Dave1992 said: