Efan said:

JoeTyler said:

I never understood what COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET means (rethorical question)

I mean, you're gay: fine, ok, terrific, live your life

just don't YELL it to everybody unless you don't give a damn about your privacy

Aren't you queer?

I'm an occasionally bisexual primadonna who's losing interest in sex as he grows older ...

cborgman said:

JoeTyler said:

I never understood what COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET means (rethorical question)

I mean, you're gay: fine, ok, terrific, live your life

just don't YELL it to everybody unless you don't give a damn about your privacy

a lot of the change we are seeing now is because people came out of the closet.

it is much easier for bigots to hate when the've never knowingly met a gay person. when they know someone who is out, it usually causes them to reexamine their bigotry. it's the same with bigots and race. if/when a racist becomes friends with a black person (or whichever ethnicity their bigotry is against), their bigotry tends to minimize considerably, if not disapeer. once they know someone from the group they are scared of/loathe/stereotype, the stereotypes get revealed as the nonsense they are.

that's why people come out publicly.

well, that's a good point

but I just dislike this kind of "Hey! EVERYBODY: I'M GAAAAAAAAAAY!" circus

I mean, does the ENTIRE world need to know that he is gay? why not only his teammates?

this reminds me of mixed-race Hollywood actors who NEED to crealy indicate which is his/her background...("my mother was jewish", "my father is black and my grandma cherokee", etc) is that truly necessary?

that's my point

[Edited 3/28/13 10:17am]

JoeTyler said:

cborgman said:

a lot of the change we are seeing now is because people came out of the closet.

it is much easier for bigots to hate when the've never knowingly met a gay person. when they know someone who is out, it usually causes them to reexamine their bigotry. it's the same with bigots and race. if/when a racist becomes friends with a black person (or whichever ethnicity their bigotry is against), their bigotry tends to minimize considerably, if not disapeer. once they know someone from the group they are scared of/loathe/stereotype, the stereotypes get revealed as the nonsense they are.

that's why people come out publicly.

well, that's a good point

but I just dislike this kind of "Hey! EVERYBODY: I'M GAAAAAAAAAAY!" circus

I mean, does the ENTIRE world need to know that he is gay? why not only his teammates?

this reminds me of mixed-race Hollywood actors who NEED to crealy indicate which is his/her background...("my mother was jewish", "my father is black and my grandma cherokee", etc) is that truly necessary?

that's my point

[Edited 3/28/13 10:17am]

Everyone needs to know because it may help stop some of the homophobia in professional sports.

vainandy said:

Stymie said:

Why people boil gays down to sex is beyond me.

Anywho, the parades are because society goes out of its way to make gays feel like second class citizens. If you want to insult someone, call them gay. Gays are still beat up and killed because of who they love.

Straight people find it hard to understand because they don't realize how easy they have it themselves in their normal day to day lives being heterosexual. Straight people don't have to hide anything. When they think of us, the first thing they think about is sex so naturally, the first thing they holler is "Do your job and don't be telling all your business" as if it's a matter of someone wanting to be able to sit around and talk about explicit sex all day, which many straight people do themselves also.

They take for granted the little things that occur in everyday life in the working world that they are able to do freely without getting a second glance and we can't. They have nothing to hide because their lifestyle is accepted by the entire world so they don't realize that a gay person is hiding something every single day when they come to work. Straight people have pictures of their spouses and children all over their desks. When they call in and say they can't come to work on a particular day, they have legitimate excuses such as "I can't come in today, I have to take my child to the doctor" or "I can't come in today, my husband is in the hospital and I'm very worried about him". A closeted gay coworker is basically considered by the rest of the office as either a loner and someone very mysterious. There are no pictures of spouses and children on their desks. The only time they call in and say they can't make it to work on a particular day is for when they have a problem that relates to themselves only. If they have a lover, they sure as hell can't call in and say "I can't come in today because my friend is in the hospital". The employer would tell them they better take their ass up there and visit their friend after work during hospital visiting hours.

When you work with people, you spend a lot of time each day with your coworkers. Actually, you spend more time with them than you spend with your own family because you are up there five days a week, eight hours a day with your coworkers. Business does not go on the entire time you are at work. There are down times when nothing is going on and what do straight people do during these down times? They are talking to each other about where they went last weekend with their spouse and children. They are talking about their daughter needing braces and how much they are going to cost. They are talking about the family vacation they are planning. Just everyday normal things that occur in life. What does the closeted gay person do during down times? He either keeps to himself, surfs the internet, or he participates in the conversations with the coworkers also. But when he participates, he's always talking about something he did alone or something he did with a friend or friends. And if he has a lover, he simply refers to him as his friend.

So what's wrong with that and why can't he be happy with that since he's also able to socialize with his straight coworkers? First of all, because doesn't have the same freedom to let his hair down and be completely comfortable and not use code words like "friends". Straight people don't have to do that so why should he? Straight people don't have to hide their lives so why should he? Fuck that! And even if he doesn't want to be totally open to them, they don't leave it at that. They see him as a loner or mysterious so they get curious and start prying into his personal life because there's no pictures on his desk, he's never mentioning a wife or girlfiend, and who is this "friend" he keeps talking about. They're not stupid, they can see there is something different about him and they start trying to find out about him. Many of them are harmless and don't care once they find out, they're just being curious. But there are also many of them who can sense he's gay and try to pry so they can make him the clown once he has either told them something or once they have pried and have either seeked out or casually run into someone outside of the office that knows him and have gotten their suspicions about him confirmed. And once they've found out for sure, then the harassment can start and when the office becomes a constant hostile battlezone, then the employer can conveniently fire him for "disrupting the office".

It's very similar to the way a white woman with a black husband would live her life. Many of them don't have pictures of their spouses and kids all over their desks either and don't discuss their everyday lives with other coworkers and they have other coworkers pry into their personal lives because they find them mysterious. But the difference in that is, when the office becomes in an uproar when she defends herself, her job is protected by law, ours isn't.

.

.

.

[Edited 3/28/13 9:09am]

amen

Stymie said:

JoeTyler said:

well, that's a good point

but I just dislike this kind of "Hey! EVERYBODY: I'M GAAAAAAAAAAY!" circus

I mean, does the ENTIRE world need to know that he is gay? why not only his teammates?

this reminds me of mixed-race Hollywood actors who NEED to crealy indicate which is his/her background...("my mother was jewish", "my father is black and my grandma cherokee", etc) is that truly necessary?

that's my point

[Edited 3/28/13 10:17am]

Everyone needs to know because it may help stop some of the homophobia in professional sports.

might sstop some of the homophobia in sports, as well as out of it.

vainandy said:

Stymie said:

Why people boil gays down to sex is beyond me.

Anywho, the parades are because society goes out of its way to make gays feel like second class citizens. If you want to insult someone, call them gay. Gays are still beat up and killed because of who they love.

Straight people find it hard to understand because they don't realize how easy they have it themselves in their normal day to day lives being heterosexual. Straight people don't have to hide anything. When they think of us, the first thing they think about is sex so naturally, the first thing they holler is "Do your job and don't be telling all your business" as if it's a matter of someone wanting to be able to sit around and talk about explicit sex all day, which many straight people do themselves also.

They take for granted the little things that occur in everyday life in the working world that they are able to do freely without getting a second glance and we can't. They have nothing to hide because their lifestyle is accepted by the entire world so they don't realize that a gay person is hiding something every single day when they come to work. Straight people have pictures of their spouses and children all over their desks. When they call in and say they can't come to work on a particular day, they have legitimate excuses such as "I can't come in today, I have to take my child to the doctor" or "I can't come in today, my husband is in the hospital and I'm very worried about him". A closeted gay coworker is basically considered by the rest of the office as either a loner and someone very mysterious. There are no pictures of spouses and children on their desks. The only time they call in and say they can't make it to work on a particular day is for when they have a problem that relates to themselves only. If they have a lover, they sure as hell can't call in and say "I can't come in today because my friend is in the hospital". The employer would tell them they better take their ass up there and visit their friend after work during hospital visiting hours.

When you work with people, you spend a lot of time each day with your coworkers. Actually, you spend more time with them than you spend with your own family because you are up there five days a week, eight hours a day with your coworkers. Business does not go on the entire time you are at work. There are down times when nothing is going on and what do straight people do during these down times? They are talking to each other about where they went last weekend with their spouse and children. They are talking about their daughter needing braces and how much they are going to cost. They are talking about the family vacation they are planning. Just everyday normal things that occur in life. What does the closeted gay person do during down times? He either keeps to himself, surfs the internet, or he participates in the conversations with the coworkers also. But when he participates, he's always talking about something he did alone or something he did with a friend or friends. And if he has a lover, he simply refers to him as his friend.

So what's wrong with that and why can't he be happy with that since he's also able to socialize with his straight coworkers? First of all, because doesn't have the same freedom to let his hair down and be completely comfortable and not use code words like "friends". Straight people don't have to do that so why should he? Straight people don't have to hide their lives so why should he? Fuck that! And even if he doesn't want to be totally open to them, they don't leave it at that. They see him as a loner or mysterious so they get curious and start prying into his personal life because there's no pictures on his desk, he's never mentioning a wife or girlfiend, and who is this "friend" he keeps talking about. They're not stupid, they can see there is something different about him and they start trying to find out about him. Many of them are harmless and don't care once they find out, they're just being curious. But there are also many of them who can sense he's gay and try to pry so they can make him the clown once he has either told them something or once they have pried and have either seeked out or casually run into someone outside of the office that knows him and have gotten their suspicions about him confirmed. And once they've found out for sure, then the harassment can start and when the office becomes a constant hostile battlezone, then the employer can conveniently fire him for "disrupting the office".

It's very similar to the way a white woman with a black husband would live her life. Many of them don't have pictures of their spouses and kids all over their desks either and don't discuss their everyday lives with other coworkers and they have other coworkers pry into their personal lives because they find them mysterious. But the difference in that is, when the office becomes in an uproar when she defends herself, her job is protected by law, ours isn't.

.

.

.

[Edited 3/28/13 9:09am]

Thank you. Well said!

JoeTyler said:

cborgman said:

a lot of the change we are seeing now is because people came out of the closet.

it is much easier for bigots to hate when the've never knowingly met a gay person. when they know someone who is out, it usually causes them to reexamine their bigotry. it's the same with bigots and race. if/when a racist becomes friends with a black person (or whichever ethnicity their bigotry is against), their bigotry tends to minimize considerably, if not disapeer. once they know someone from the group they are scared of/loathe/stereotype, the stereotypes get revealed as the nonsense they are.

that's why people come out publicly.

well, that's a good point

but I just dislike this kind of "Hey! EVERYBODY: I'M GAAAAAAAAAAY!" circus

I mean, does the ENTIRE world need to know that he is gay? why not only his teammates?

this reminds me of mixed-race Hollywood actors who NEED to crealy indicate which is his/her background...("my mother was jewish", "my father is black and my grandma cherokee", etc) is that truly necessary?

that's my point

[Edited 3/28/13 10:17am]

I get it. People can be who they are and be comfortable in their own skin without

having to have a celebration every two weeks. I have a gay co worker and would have

never known had it not been for him bringing his partner by the job and another

co worker mentioning it. He doesn't flash it or flaunt it and when i see him it doesn't

even cross my mind and on occasion during football season we talk football.

Folk are coming out about coming out now?

I get the merits of candor. It's why I came out, in fact. I don't get the merits of making it an orchestrated media circus.

vainandy said:

Stymie said:

Why people boil gays down to sex is beyond me.

Anywho, the parades are because society goes out of its way to make gays feel like second class citizens. If you want to insult someone, call them gay. Gays are still beat up and killed because of who they love.

Straight people find it hard to understand because they don't realize how easy they have it themselves in their normal day to day lives being heterosexual. Straight people don't have to hide anything. When they think of us, the first thing they think about is sex so naturally, the first thing they holler is "Do your job and don't be telling all your business" as if it's a matter of someone wanting to be able to sit around and talk about explicit sex all day, which many straight people do themselves also.

They take for granted the little things that occur in everyday life in the working world that they are able to do freely without getting a second glance and we can't. They have nothing to hide because their lifestyle is accepted by the entire world so they don't realize that a gay person is hiding something every single day when they come to work. Straight people have pictures of their spouses and children all over their desks. When they call in and say they can't come to work on a particular day, they have legitimate excuses such as "I can't come in today, I have to take my child to the doctor" or "I can't come in today, my husband is in the hospital and I'm very worried about him". A closeted gay coworker is basically considered by the rest of the office as either a loner and someone very mysterious. There are no pictures of spouses and children on their desks. The only time they call in and say they can't make it to work on a particular day is for when they have a problem that relates to themselves only. If they have a lover, they sure as hell can't call in and say "I can't come in today because my friend is in the hospital". The employer would tell them they better take their ass up there and visit their friend after work during hospital visiting hours.

When you work with people, you spend a lot of time each day with your coworkers. Actually, you spend more time with them than you spend with your own family because you are up there five days a week, eight hours a day with your coworkers. Business does not go on the entire time you are at work. There are down times when nothing is going on and what do straight people do during these down times? They are talking to each other about where they went last weekend with their spouse and children. They are talking about their daughter needing braces and how much they are going to cost. They are talking about the family vacation they are planning. Just everyday normal things that occur in life. What does the closeted gay person do during down times? He either keeps to himself, surfs the internet, or he participates in the conversations with the coworkers also. But when he participates, he's always talking about something he did alone or something he did with a friend or friends. And if he has a lover, he simply refers to him as his friend.

So what's wrong with that and why can't he be happy with that since he's also able to socialize with his straight coworkers? First of all, because doesn't have the same freedom to let his hair down and be completely comfortable and not use code words like "friends". Straight people don't have to do that so why should he? Straight people don't have to hide their lives so why should he? Fuck that! And even if he doesn't want to be totally open to them, they don't leave it at that. They see him as a loner or mysterious so they get curious and start prying into his personal life because there's no pictures on his desk, he's never mentioning a wife or girlfiend, and who is this "friend" he keeps talking about. They're not stupid, they can see there is something different about him and they start trying to find out about him. Many of them are harmless and don't care once they find out, they're just being curious. But there are also many of them who can sense he's gay and try to pry so they can make him the clown once he has either told them something or once they have pried and have either seeked out or casually run into someone outside of the office that knows him and have gotten their suspicions about him confirmed. And once they've found out for sure, then the harassment can start and when the office becomes a constant hostile battlezone, then the employer can conveniently fire him for "disrupting the office".

It's very similar to the way a white woman with a black husband would live her life. Many of them don't have pictures of their spouses and kids all over their desks either and don't discuss their everyday lives with other coworkers and they have other coworkers pry into their personal lives because they find them mysterious. But the difference in that is, when the office becomes in an uproar when she defends herself, her job is protected by law, ours isn't.

.

.

.

[Edited 3/28/13 9:09am]

well said andy. i live in europe, in the netherlands. and being gay at work isn't really that big of an

issue over here. although it's no picknick either. people tend to think that the dutch are this very

liberal free thinking country where you can do whatever you want and no one will blink an eye. but

the truth is rather somewhere in the middle.

i've been singled out by someone who was directly responsible for overseeing my internship and it

all went good and well up until the day we were having lunch and one of our colleagues asked me

if i had a girlfriend. so i said "ehm, well no, i don't have a girlfriend but i do have a boyfriend".

i figured it wouldn't be that big a deal amongst grown ups since i never had any trouble at school,

where i started telling people at 18. first i told a few friends and later i just talked about my first

boyfriend during lunch, hanging out with the smokers outside. people were always like "really? oh,

are you shitting us? no? ok. so what did you guys do last weekend". that simple. the whole thing

didn't even spread like wildfire through school, i think it took another 2 years before everyone in

school knew. and still, no negative feedback.

which is why i let my guard down at work. and then it just backfired. the woman who evaluated my

work went from being friendly and chatty one day to just ignoring me and being rude the day after

she heard about me being gay. when it was time to score my work she scored me very low and as

i sat there and opposed her, arguing that she had marked me very positively just weeks before,

she got into an argument with me, in the heat of which she just went "yeah well, i'm gonna get you

out of here one way or another you faggot"

since that time i'm always kind of guarded around whom i tell and whom i don't. so i can only just

slightly imagine what it must be like in a lot of places in america where you can be pretty sure they

will find some reason to either ostricise or even fire you once they find out. that must just be the

worst feeling ever. to have to sit with that knowledge and not be able to just be open about your

own life.

i hear people say it here all the time "why do gays feel the need to come out and make such a big

hoopla about it?"

i think what you wrote explains why in a very well said way.

and what cborgman said is also very true. i've experienced that myself in my surroundings with

people whom i knew to be quite anti-gay before i came out to them. they never said anything

mean or negative to me and never treated me differently. but simply through knowing that i'm

gay, they slowly started thinking differently about it and realised they had the wrong idea.

for those that feel that everything that's to be said on the subject has already been said and that

we should all be over the whole gay issue and just get along (thus gays should shut up), i would

like to point out that it's an issue that needs to be adressed again and again, sadly.

over here where i live things were looking up about 10 years ago. it seemed like indeed being

gay was not a big deal anymore to people. there was less violence and crime toward gay people

and acceptance was pretty high. but as a new generation matured things started turning worse

and worse again. a lot more violence an ignorance came to the surface.

which is why every generation needs to be educated and every new generation of gay kids also

needs their own heros or role models. someone from their own generation who has the courage

to be open about their life. and all those kids with closed minds and homophobic attitudes also

need other kids, amongst which possibly their own best friends, family members or their favorite

athlete, to come out and be openly gay. so they can get educated and deal with it instead of them

being the ones who are able to create an atmosphere of angst and opression which has everyone

scuttling back into the closet or not coming out at all.

personally, i used to scratch my head when i read stories about kids who come out in highschool

and just get up in front of the entire class to make a statement.

i used to think that was kind of bizarre.

but i think i understand now. it's this huge issue that's been with you for a long time and it's one

of those things that's just always there, wherever you go, whomever you're with. you always

have to be on guard and watch what you say, or do. and then when you finally feel ready to just

put it out there, you want to get it over with and have everyone know at once. that way people

won't feel like they've found out some 'dirty little secret' or make it into a huge 'underground' kind

of deal with lots of whispers and made up shit.

that's probably what celebs are thinking about as well. why make a statement? because that gives

you power. it gives you the control. instead of just letting people find out slowly, which would just

not work for a big celeb. gossip magazines would be all over that and turn it into some sordid deal.

if this football guy would just tell his teammates, do people really think it would go no further?

if he outs himself, the blogs and magazines will feast for a week and then move on.

if he would be 'found out' and they got their hands on pictures and could headline with it, calling it

"gay scandal", there would be a feeding frenzy. and it would once again send the message to the

people at home that somehow being gay is wrong, filthy and all about sex.

if he comes out and posts a pic of him and his boyfriend online, people will look and move on.

although rammifications might be bigger since he's an athlete. but still. it will blow over.

do you think magazines, tv shows or blogs will care a month later if he's kissing his boyfriend on

a beach in italy? it won't even make page 34.

but if he isn't out yet, heck, they'll have a field day.

phunkdaddy said:

JoeTyler said:

well, that's a good point

but I just dislike this kind of "Hey! EVERYBODY: I'M GAAAAAAAAAAY!" circus

I mean, does the ENTIRE world need to know that he is gay? why not only his teammates?

this reminds me of mixed-race Hollywood actors who NEED to crealy indicate which is his/her background...("my mother was jewish", "my father is black and my grandma cherokee", etc) is that truly necessary?

that's my point

[Edited 3/28/13 10:17am]

I get it.

People can be who they are and be comfortable in their own skin without

having to have a celebration every two weeks.

no, u don0't

I was NOT talking about parades or gay pride

I was talking about the way SOME (or many? there's a good debate there) gay folks NEED to express that they're gay, as if it was something that HAS to be SAID, even if NOBODY asked them to begin with

it's like "hey, my name is Peter, I'm gay, but please, be cool"

homophobes are homophobes, I understand cborgman when he says that knowing "the truth" about someone close to you may change preconceptions, but that only works if a person is not an homophobe

and professional male sports (specially team-based sports) are FULL of die-hard homophobes, that ain't gonna change, NEVER

[Edited 3/28/13 19:33pm]

JoeTyler said:

and professional male sports (specially team-based sports) are FULL of die-hard homophobes, that ain't gonna change, NEVER

[Edited 3/28/13 19:33pm]

[Edited 3/28/13 20:51pm]

Vainandy always brings the truth, painful as it may be. As a black man, I understand the gay/lesbian struggle for human rights. Their fight is my fight. I wish more of my 'christian' relatives and friends felt the same way.

As for the homophobes, I always wonder about folks who are so open about their gay/lesbian hate. Methinks they doth protest TOO much.

As we've seen, some of the haters have skeletons in their closet.

JoeTyler said:

and professional male sports (specially team-based sports) are FULL of die-hard homophobes, that ain't gonna change, NEVER

[Edited 3/28/13 19:33pm]

It can change. The world used to be full of die-hard homophobes. This country used to throw men in jail just for being caught hanging out at a gay bar. Now we've got 9 states in the US that believe gays should have the same rights the rest of us do.

Things can change. They absolutely can and they absolutely will.

^ It may take decades, maybe as long as it took black Americans to get basic human rights. It's hard to undo narrow-minded thinking, especially from thes bible-thumping politicians.

CarrieMpls said:

JoeTyler said:

and professional male sports (specially team-based sports) are FULL of die-hard homophobes, that ain't gonna change, NEVER

[Edited 3/28/13 19:33pm]

It can change. The world used to be full of die-hard homophobes. This country used to throw men in jail just for being caught hanging out at a gay bar. Now we've got 9 states in the US that believe gays should have the same rights the rest of us do.

Things can change. They absolutely can and they absolutely will.

amen

cborgman said:

CarrieMpls said:

It can change. The world used to be full of die-hard homophobes. This country used to throw men in jail just for being caught hanging out at a gay bar. Now we've got 9 states in the US that believe gays should have the same rights the rest of us do.

Things can change. They absolutely can and they absolutely will.

amen

amen indeed

but something tells me it won't happen soon, as uPtoWnNY has said, it will take DECADES

JoeTyler said:

cborgman said:

amen

amen indeed

but something tells me it won't happen soon, as uPtoWnNY has said, it will take DECADES

that wheel's been rolling at a good speed for more than 20 years already

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

and professional male sports (specially team-based sports) are FULL of die-hard homophobes, that ain't gonna change, NEVER

[Edited 3/28/13 19:33pm]

[Edited 3/28/13 20:51pm]

Don't know if I agree with this.

There are a hand full of gay dudes in the Hall of Fame and the players know exactly who they are. This is more of a thing with the public than with the players themselves.

Timmy84 said:

JoeTyler said:

and professional male sports (specially team-based sports) are FULL of die-hard homophobes, that ain't gonna change, NEVER

[Edited 3/28/13 19:33pm]

[Edited 3/28/13 20:51pm]

@JoeTyler & Timmy......but yet, if the gay player ended up being a NFL SuperBowl MVP, THOSE same homophobes will be the first to kick his entire ass because he helped his team win the SuperBowl.

A game winning touchdown is all it takes to win the fans over in American Football.

Gunsnhalen said:

I am 100% serious in saying i LONG for the day no one gives 2 fucks about anyone coming out.

I long for the day someone coming out is not headline news or on the first page of gossip colums...

[Edited 3/27/13 21:57pm]

If that day ever comes, I don't really see it being in our lifetime. It's getting better but people are still very up in arms about gay men coming out of the closet, especially if the man doesn't "look" or "act" gay. A lot of men will always be disgusted by befriending some dude they thought was straight just to find out he's gay or bi. It's really sad that people continue to have issues with sexuality.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

[Edited 3/28/13 20:51pm]

@JoeTyler & Timmy......but yet, if the gay player ended up being a NFL SuperBowl MVP, THOSE same homophobes will be the first to kick his entire ass because he helped his team win the SuperBowl.

A game winning touchdown is all it takes to win the fans over in American Football.

Good point lol

I have not changed my opinion on this one.

In a perfect world, people would not be judgemental about your sexual orientation.

In that world it would be rather silly to, out of the blue, tell people you are gay.

However that is not the case.

Fortunately I live in a country that is leading when it comes to accepting sexual orientation, The Netherlands. And it's Dutch policy to use diplomatic pressure in order to strive for a world that is save for gay poeple.

And even in The Netherlands there are people who are homophobic.

I really think that in the last 2 years there have been major changes in the US when it comes to homophobia and equal rights for homosexual people.

Actually, I got hooked on this site because of the interesting discussions about religion and voting against same sex marriages. (I still miss novideo).

I think it is of great importance that a macho, male dominated sports culture stops it's hypocracy and opens up about the 5-10 % of their group being gay.

It also helps to broaden people their minds. Because a lot of people have a very stereotypical idea about how a gay man or gay woman looks and behaves like.

And a macho man that is succesfull in sports who is man enough to say he is gay, helps people to get over their stereotypical prejudices.

In Russia there is currentl a law pending that enables Putin and his gestapo army to arrest people who have the rainbow flag, who kiss in public with somebody from the same sex and all kind of nonsense.

In Africa you can't be gay. Same as in the middle east. Somehow, these people think they are not human. They really want to stay hypocrits and deny that in every human population the percentage of gay people is stable, among 5-15%. In these countries people who are openly gay, have to fear for their life.

So, I think it's very important that people stand up for their fellow gay Americans. Because hopefully through globalization life will become better for gay people.

Than after that battle, it's time that the woman become save too.

By the way, if you want to help the Russian gay people, please do.

Sign this petition:

https://www.change.org/petitions/president-putin-stop-the-russian-anti-gay-law-putinrf-dumagovru-gaypropaganda

PurpleJedi said:

*cough*tebow*cough*

I wouldn't mind that