kitbradley said:

vainandy said:

It's sad to say but Nippy was not truly embraced by the black community until she married Bobby Brown and started making a public spectacle of herself. Prior to that, a lot of people in the black community felt her music was too Pop and wasn't being geared towards them. I thought her being booed at the Soul Train Awards in the 80's was one of the most tasteless, mean-spirited things I had ever witnessed. I know that alone stayed with her for a long time.

i happened to be listening to the larry elder show around the time that whitney passed. he was talking about a conversation that he and della reese had about whitney some years back, i guess around the time when she was starting to go off the rails and they were trying to figure out why. they agreed that there was something about that soul train incident that seemed to be a turning point for her.

i do believe that all evidence points to clive davis toning her gospel roots in order to ensure crossover pop success, and the revenue that comes with it. it is, after all, the music BUSINESS and there is generally more money to be made from white community, it being larger. however, what's really regrettable is that many seem to think 'acting black' or 'keeping it real' involves acting ghettofied, ignorant and dysfunctional. that's not black. that's ghettofied, ignorant and dysfunctional. i think whitney could have found a way to connect with the black community without embracing that negativity that exists in *some* corners of the community.

Timmy84 said:

vainandy said:

So she was simply being herself? You, yourself have said she was doing drugs long before she met Bobby Brown but yet she was playing a goodie two shoes role. That doesn't seem like being yourself to me, that seems like putting on an act. She was fake and people don't like fake.

If she did happen to be booed by her own race for not fitting into the typical role of a black person, well, that's just life. I guarantee you, if I went into a redneck bar, I'd encounter a lot worse from my own race than some booing so she got off lucky. If a person is truly being themselves regardless of whether it fits the norm, they know there are going to be others that don't like what they're doing and when they encounter them, they don't give a damn what they think and if someone says something to them about it, they tell them to kiss their ass. They don't let it bother them and then try to change afterwards. If she was such an "individual", she would have faced the criticsm and fought it rather than back down with her tail between her legs. Little Miss Mary Poppins was a fake fence straddler and it backfired on her.

.

.

.

[Edited 1/30/13 9:08am]

Just because she did drugs don't mean she was fake.

No, you're not fake when you're someone like Rick James who does drugs and flaunts it. You are fake when you do drugs and portray an image of a goodie goodie cheerleader during the week and a Virgin Mary choir girl on the weekend. It's as fake as a gay Republican sucking dicks in a public men's room stall.

SimpleSoul said:

vainandy said:

So she was simply being herself? You, yourself have said she was doing drugs long before she met Bobby Brown but yet she was playing a goodie two shoes role. That doesn't seem like being yourself to me, that seems like putting on an act. She was fake and people don't like fake.

If she did happen to be booed by her own race for not fitting into the typical role of a black person, well, that's just life. I guarantee you, if I went into a redneck bar, I'd encounter a lot worse from my own race than some booing so she got off lucky. If a person is truly being themselves regardless of whether it fits the norm, they know there are going to be others that don't like what they're doing and when then encounter them, they don't give a damn what they think and if someone says something to them about it, they tell them to kiss their ass. They don't let it bother them and then try to change afterwards. Little Miss Mary Poppins was a fake fence straddler and it backfired on her.

In other words it was an image that took a toll on her.It's kinda sad when you here the story from her point of view and her mother's .BUT you can only help yourself (also one person trying to please millions , is very hard work and it's like your getting seperated into puzzles)

All performers go through that. Especially performers that work hard trying to please everyone. The hardest thing for an artist is to admit not everyone is gonna dig what you do no matter how you do it. When you become a multi-platinum artist off the bat, it can be difficult to uphold it without giving in to pressures to "fit in", which I think is what Whitney was struggling with. She kept getting told she was either too this or too that. It's the same issue that someone like, say, Michael had to deal with also.

kibbles said:

kitbradley said:

It's sad to say but Nippy was not truly embraced by the black community until she married Bobby Brown and started making a public spectacle of herself. Prior to that, a lot of people in the black community felt her music was too Pop and wasn't being geared towards them. I thought her being booed at the Soul Train Awards in the 80's was one of the most tasteless, mean-spirited things I had ever witnessed. I know that alone stayed with her for a long time.

i happened to be listening to the larry elder show around the time that whitney passed. he was talking about a conversation that he and della reese had about whitney some years back, i guess around the time when she was starting to go off the rails and they were trying to figure out why. they agreed that there was something about that soul train incident that seemed to be a turning point for her.

i do believe that all evidence points to clive davis toning her gospel roots in order to ensure crossover pop success, and the revenue that comes with it. it is, after all, the music BUSINESS and there is generally more money to be made from white community, it being larger. however, what's really regrettable is that many seem to think 'acting black' or 'keeping it real' involves acting ghettofied, ignorant and dysfunctional. that's not black. that's ghettofied, ignorant and dysfunctional. i think whitney could have found a way to connect with the black community without embracing that negativity that exists in *some* corners of the community.

That's just it, she did or tried to. But apparently that wasn't enough for the militant knuckleheads.

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Ottensen said:

Actually, the interview really is worth watching, because I think it clarifies a lot. I didn't take from it that she blamed Bobby for everything, rather than she just didn't think he was good enough for her daughter, and still has an issue with him because of the physical conflicts Whit revealed on Oprah( eg, the spitting on her). But I didn't see her place blame on anyone vs. admitting that her children grew up to be hard-headed, and that no matter how much you want to as a parent you cannot control your grown children's decisions...

...and that she wanted to kill Nippy when she found out she was getting high. She's a very...I guess you could call it "forthcoming" woman... so to me I saw her more of a tough nut to crack who wouldn't wuss out by playing the blame game on anyone; she's very "say it like you mean it".

What I did find interesting though, is that in Michael admitting how this drug stuff started, I got a chance to look at that whole issue from a new perspective. Imagine, being young, rich, and on the road in the 80's, with drugs likely all around you. In my mind, I'm thinking, in a situation like that, who didn't try coke in the 80's? I'm thinking about So many performers...Chaka, Stevie Nicks, Grace Jones, Rick James, allegedly the Purple One himself... But the Houston kids got caught up & ended up being the statistic that didn't make it/barely made it out alive. I believe it could have happened to anyone in the situation they were in...and they just didn't make it back from the dark side.

Roll your eyes all you freakin' want to. There is a reason why the word allegedly is in front of that moniker, Dear

banks said:

Timmy84 said:

I just saw the interview myself and I agree 110%... I'm glad she said she hated the Pat interview!

okaaay!!! she didnt even sugar coat her answer about that interview.. she didnt like it and TOLD Oprah..

Anybody else notice how one of Forbe's richest women in the world seemed to slink down in her seat juuuust a centimeter or so when Ms. Cissy said that? Something about a strong elder with the right tone of voice can set even a grown ass billionaire mogul straight, mmmkay? And afterwards O. had that wee little schoolgirl that voice cam out in response to Cissy telling her she did not appreciate that interview ... " but why ?" . One could almost imagine one false move or misplaced word, and Mama Houston might have pulled out her cane on Oprah Gail's ass for being disrespectful

Ottensen said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

Roll your eyes all you freakin' want to. There is a reason why the word allegedly is in front of that moniker, Dear

I do agree with everyhing else U said though...

Timmy84 said:

kibbles said:

i happened to be listening to the larry elder show around the time that whitney passed. he was talking about a conversation that he and della reese had about whitney some years back, i guess around the time when she was starting to go off the rails and they were trying to figure out why. they agreed that there was something about that soul train incident that seemed to be a turning point for her.

i do believe that all evidence points to clive davis toning her gospel roots in order to ensure crossover pop success, and the revenue that comes with it. it is, after all, the music BUSINESS and there is generally more money to be made from white community, it being larger. however, what's really regrettable is that many seem to think 'acting black' or 'keeping it real' involves acting ghettofied, ignorant and dysfunctional. that's not black. that's ghettofied, ignorant and dysfunctional. i think whitney could have found a way to connect with the black community without embracing that negativity that exists in *some* corners of the community.

That's just it, she did or tried to. But apparently that wasn't enough for the militant knuckleheads.

yes, i agree. whitney was only a few years older than me and i remember her from my seventeen magazine. i was very happy to see someone like me in those photos. when her album came out, i can't say that i ever viewed her as being 'not black enough'. so she was doing "pop" music, so what? she was young and vibrant and 80s; she didn't have to be a soul diva a la aretha. whitney was of her time, and aretha of hers. i had no idea how poor her rep was in some segments of the black community until the soul train awards (which i wasn't watching but heard about. i notice that she was back a few years later, with bobby, and she had a much warmer reception).

i do remember wondering what she saw in bobby, though. marrying a younger, poorer, less successful man does not bode well. i didn't know then that they were into "the life", and who was more responsible for it is a moot point when they were both so determined to be involved in that. sad.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

That's just it, she did or tried to. But apparently that wasn't enough for the militant knuckleheads.

yes, i agree. whitney was only a few years older than me and i remember her from my seventeen magazine. i was very happy to see someone like me in those photos. when her album came out, i can't say that i ever viewed her as being 'not black enough'. so she was doing "pop" music, so what? she was young and vibrant and 80s; she didn't have to be a soul diva a la aretha. whitney was of her time, and aretha of hers. i had no idea how poor her rep was in some segments of the black community until the soul train awards (which i wasn't watching but heard about. i notice that she was back a few years later, with bobby, and she had a much warmer reception).

i do remember wondering what she saw in bobby, though. marrying a younger, poorer, less successful man does not bode well. i didn't know then that they were into "the life", and who was more responsible for it is a moot point when they were both so determined to be involved in that. sad.

What everyone seems to forget that Whitney was a HOODRAT, who wanted a roughneck! The girl grew up in Jersey. Im not surprised that she was with Bobby. Cissy thought that by them living on the outskirt of Jersey would make her immune to mentality of the streets and it does not work that way and unfortunately Cissy found out the hard way by her son introducing his baby sister to drugs, and her only girl wanting to be with a thug etc. I grew up in the 80"s so I KNOW what the majority of us young black wanted in a man and during that time the rougher the better... I'm just saying

And what does Whitney do after she's booed at the Soul Train awards?

Falls in love with a white man in front of millions!

That must have REALLY made those ignorant fools mad.

debbiedean2 said:

kibbles said:

yes, i agree. whitney was only a few years older than me and i remember her from my seventeen magazine. i was very happy to see someone like me in those photos. when her album came out, i can't say that i ever viewed her as being 'not black enough'. so she was doing "pop" music, so what? she was young and vibrant and 80s; she didn't have to be a soul diva a la aretha. whitney was of her time, and aretha of hers. i had no idea how poor her rep was in some segments of the black community until the soul train awards (which i wasn't watching but heard about. i notice that she was back a few years later, with bobby, and she had a much warmer reception).

i do remember wondering what she saw in bobby, though. marrying a younger, poorer, less successful man does not bode well. i didn't know then that they were into "the life", and who was more responsible for it is a moot point when they were both so determined to be involved in that. sad.

What everyone seems to forget that Whitney was a HOODRAT, who wanted a roughneck! The girl grew up in Jersey. Im not surprised that she was with Bobby. Cissy thought that by them living on the outskirt of Jersey would make her immune to mentality of the streets and it does not work that way and unfortunately Cissy found out the hard way by her son introducing his baby sister to drugs, and her only girl wanting to be with a thug etc. I grew up in the 80"s so I KNOW what the majority of us young black wanted in a man and during that time the rougher the better... I'm just saying

The majority of who? Uh uhhh, Debbie!!!

Terrib3Towel said:

And what does Whitney do after she's booed at the Soul Train awards?

Falls in love with a white man in front of millions!

That must have REALLY made those ignorant fools mad.

The Bodyguard.

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

That's just it, she did or tried to. But apparently that wasn't enough for the militant knuckleheads.

yes, i agree. whitney was only a few years older than me and i remember her from my seventeen magazine. i was very happy to see someone like me in those photos. when her album came out, i can't say that i ever viewed her as being 'not black enough'. so she was doing "pop" music, so what? she was young and vibrant and 80s; she didn't have to be a soul diva a la aretha. whitney was of her time, and aretha of hers. i had no idea how poor her rep was in some segments of the black community until the soul train awards (which i wasn't watching but heard about. i notice that she was back a few years later, with bobby, and she had a much warmer reception).

i do remember wondering what she saw in bobby, though. marrying a younger, poorer, less successful man does not bode well. i didn't know then that they were into "the life", and who was more responsible for it is a moot point when they were both so determined to be involved in that. sad.

I remember that too . It was her, and that first black actress to play on Days of Our lives...virtually the only two black faces to appear in mainstream fashion magazines for young American girls back then. I remember being so excited and showing my mother "Mommy look, it's some black people in my magazine!!!" Then when Whitney's album came out, my first reaction "That's that black model!"....had no idea what the girl's name even was

I remember when her first album came out though, she was getting much love in the black community. In had an uncle in Cleveland who one summer took us to a local music festival (kind of like a Tom Joyner style family reunion); it was for all intents and purposes a black music festival featuring r&b, in a black community and people were going crazy over the girl who sang "You Give Good Love". I mean, if you look at the r&b of the 80's, what the hell was she doing that was so different from Atlantic Starr or Regina Belle or Vesta or Donna Summer? They all sounded like that and it seemed to me that everybody liked them.

I think I remember r&b taking a turn in the 90's where suddenly it became a little rougher around the edges and you couldn't escape it's urban/hip-hop influence. All of a sudden, all the singers started looking manly and wore unisex clothes and had a tough as nails exterior with songs that all sounded alike- it seemed to be that way for girl groups as well as solo artists. The only people looking any different or playing up glamour seemed to be En Vogue. That wasn't my favorite period for r&b music, and if that's what you had to be in order to survive as a singer for that moment in the industry, I can well understand a person pursuing a different trajectory where you record songs that are timeless, and will give you a world wide audience for when you're old and can barely make it to the microphone. Whitney's cousin Dionne was the model template for that formula: and even today she and Burt Bacharach can still travel the world, be put up at the Four Seasons, and play venues like the Royal Albert Concert Hall. Where are all those throwaway singers from the 90's who got famous on trend at today?

I remember when the Whitney backlash started, and her basically responding that she was in this for the long haul as a life long career, to do work that would last. I didn't blame her then, and shole don't blame her now. Everybody couldn't be laid up under Puffy playing the gangsta chick role -and thank gawd Faith and Mary got away from him so that they could grow and have long standing careers. Best thing they ever did for themselves if you ask me. It's interesting to see that many young singers after a certain period of time, will stretch and try to grow into more "adult" music. Whitney said "Eff it. I'm just going to do that from jump street, dull or not". I say good on her.

I DVR'ed this interview and finally watched it last night. This Interview made me Laugh and Cry in many parts. Ms. Cissy is so serious at times she's hilarious. Now I see where Whitney got her sense of humor from.

One of the parts that had me rolling was when The Mighty O asked Ms. Cissy "So if Whitney was gay would you have a problem with it?"....Cissy said, YEAP....LOL...Oprah was shocked, I was shocked and I bust out laughing cause Cissy was serious...Then Oprah had to ask her again and Cissy gave her the SAME answer...LOL..

Ms. Cissy was being honest and you gotta respect her for that. She's from a different Generation..

I Loved watching the old clips of Cissy and Whitney singing. Cissy has the most amazing voice that was passed on to her daughter only Whitney took it to another level.

It had to be awful for Ms. Cissy to watch her daughter struggle and when she intervened Whitney would always be overtaken by her addiction. Sad, sad way to go through your entire Adult Life even for someone as Iconic as Whitney. All the money in the world can't fix was broken on the inside. Whitney was in pieces for a long, long time...

My heart goes out to her Older brother that introduced her to Drugs. He was Foolish all those decades ago and chose to do wrong by his sister instead of doing the right thing. He claims Whitney forgave him a long time ago and I hope that gives him some peace of mind. But being a Man, when you know that you are the one that introduced a form of Evil into a Loved ones Life you carry that burden to your Grave. That's how we operate as Men. I know Ms. Cissy is praying for him and I hope God places the right people in his Life.

I have Drug Addicts, Drug Dealers & Alcoholics in my Family. I know what it does and the pain it causes. You want to make it all go away but life doesnt work like that, ever....

God be with the Houston Family.

I find it odd that none of the Houston family opened their mouths after years of peeps blaming Bobby for turning Whitney into a druggie.When it was always their very own family member that did it all along.So many skeletons in that family closet...

[Edited 1/31/13 6:30am]

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I find it odd that none of the Houston family opened their mouths after years of peeps blaming Bobby for turning Whitney into a druggie.When it was always their very own family member that did it all along. Also the whole who took the WHitney castic photo drama. They never said a word that it was Michael Whitney's brother, who took it & sold it for his drug habit. Cissy told them not to.So many skeletons in that family closet...

I felt the same way a long time ago. Then I talked to some long-time Dionne Warwick/Cissy-Whitney Houston fans. They told me years ago that Whitney's brother introduced her to drugs and that addiction runs in that family. I never asked them how they knew that Private information but they were right.

Think about something. The Media painted Bobby as a "Bad boy" BEFORE he did anything bad. The Media looked at Bobby, his age, his videos and assumed he was a Bad boy. He got stereotyped. Granted he eventually proved them right by his actions in their marriage but he was judged wrongly while they dated.

One thing I know for certain is that Black Media always focused on comments that hinted she was doing drugs before Bobby. We also knew from Black Media that Whitney was buck-wild at times and stage Whitney was the Superstar. Mainstream media simply pointed fingers at Bobby regardless..

"Bobby Brown is a bad, bad Man and why is our American Princess with him?"

Well, we know Whitney wasnt innocent at all...She had serious problems...

Chancellor said:

I DVR'ed this interview and finally watched it last night. This Interview made me Laugh and Cry in many parts. Ms. Cissy is so serious at times she's hilarious. Now I see where Whitney got her sense of humor from.

...

My heart goes out to her Older brother that introduced her to Drugs. He was Foolish all those decades ago and chose to do wrong by his sister instead of doing the right thing. He claims Whitney forgave him a long time ago and I hope that gives him some peace of mind. But being a Man, when you know that you are the one that introduced a form of Evil into a Loved ones Life you carry that burden to your Grave. That's how we operate as Men. I know Ms. Cissy is praying for him and I hope God places the right people in his Life.

I have Drug Addicts, Drug Dealers & Alcoholics in my Family. I know what it does and the pain it causes. You want to make it all go away but life doesnt work like that, ever....

God be with the Houston Family.

You could just see the regret all over his face . There was so much time spent on the fact that when they were growing up they were so close that most people initially thought he & Whitney were twins, this has got to hurt him beyond all imagining; I don't even know what he looked like in years past but right now he just looks like a shell of a man. It's a dang shame, something that started out as young folly enjoying the high life resulted in all of this family tragedy, and unfortunately looks like it's going into a whole new generation with Krissy. His sunset years are not going to be easy living with this for every last remaining day, that's for sure.

Chancellor said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I find it odd that none of the Houston family opened their mouths after years of peeps blaming Bobby for turning Whitney into a druggie.When it was always their very own family member that did it all along. Also the whole who took the WHitney castic photo drama. They never said a word that it was Michael Whitney's brother, who took it & sold it for his drug habit. Cissy told them not to.So many skeletons in that family closet...

I felt the same way a long time ago. Then I talked to some long-time Dionne Warwick/Cissy-Whitney Houston fans. They told me years ago that Whitney's brother introduced her to drugs and that addiction runs in that family. I never asked them how they knew that Private information but they were right.

Think about something. The Media painted Bobby as a "Bad boy" BEFORE he did anything bad. The Media looked at Bobby, his age, his videos and assumed he was a Bad boy. He got stereotyped. Granted he eventually proved them right by his actions in their marriage but he was judged wrongly while they dated.

One thing I know for certain is that Black Media always focused on comments that hinted she was doing drugs before Bobby. We also knew from Black Media that Whitney was buck-wild at times and stage Whitney was the Superstar. Mainstream media simply pointed fingers at Bobby regardless..

"Bobby Brown is a bad, bad Man and why is our American Princess with him?"

Well, we know Whitney wasnt innocent at all...She had serious problems...

Chile, by the early 90's Whitney even told us so herself; I recall an interview she did with Vanity Fair during that time and she was not that poised and coached young model from the "You Give Good Love" years. She was grown ass Whitney who said it was the public's own fault for getting it twisted that because she performed in evening dresses every night that she somehow was supposed to be their Princess. I do believe she cursed quite a lot in that interview, too. The whole thing kinda left me looking like this after I read it.

Chancellor said:

KCOOLMUZIQ said:

I find it odd that none of the Houston family opened their mouths after years of peeps blaming Bobby for turning Whitney into a druggie.When it was always their very own family member that did it all along. Also the whole who took the WHitney castic photo drama. They never said a word that it was Michael Whitney's brother, who took it & sold it for his drug habit. Cissy told them not to.So many skeletons in that family closet...

I felt the same way a long time ago. Then I talked to some long-time Dionne Warwick/Cissy-Whitney Houston fans. They told me years ago that Whitney's brother introduced her to drugs and that addiction runs in that family. I never asked them how they knew that Private information but they were right.

Think about something. The Media painted Bobby as a "Bad boy" BEFORE he did anything bad. The Media looked at Bobby, his age, his videos and assumed he was a Bad boy. He got stereotyped. Granted he eventually proved them right by his actions in their marriage but he was judged wrongly while they dated.

One thing I know for certain is that Black Media always focused on comments that hinted she was doing drugs before Bobby. We also knew from Black Media that Whitney was buck-wild at times and stage Whitney was the Superstar. Mainstream media simply pointed fingers at Bobby regardless..

"Bobby Brown is a bad, bad Man and why is our American Princess with him?"

Well, we know Whitney wasnt innocent at all...She had serious problems...

I've heard a lot of things about Whitney,Cissy,Whitney's father Whitney's brothers,Robin & Bobbi Kristina that would shock a lot of people. But I have decided to keep it to myself. Somethings should be left private. But what's in the dark will come to the light...

Ottensen said:

kibbles said:

yes, i agree. whitney was only a few years older than me and i remember her from my seventeen magazine. i was very happy to see someone like me in those photos. when her album came out, i can't say that i ever viewed her as being 'not black enough'. so she was doing "pop" music, so what? she was young and vibrant and 80s; she didn't have to be a soul diva a la aretha. whitney was of her time, and aretha of hers. i had no idea how poor her rep was in some segments of the black community until the soul train awards (which i wasn't watching but heard about. i notice that she was back a few years later, with bobby, and she had a much warmer reception).

i do remember wondering what she saw in bobby, though. marrying a younger, poorer, less successful man does not bode well. i didn't know then that they were into "the life", and who was more responsible for it is a moot point when they were both so determined to be involved in that. sad.

I remember that too . It was her, and that first black actress to play on Days of Our lives...virtually the only two black faces to appear in mainstream fashion magazines for young American girls back then. I remember being so excited and showing my mother "Mommy look, it's some black people in my magazine!!!" Then when Whitney's album came out, my first reaction "That's that black model!"....had no idea what the girl's name even was

I remember when her first album came out though, she was getting much love in the black community. In had an uncle in Cleveland who one summer took us to a local music festival (kind of like a Tom Joyner style family reunion); it was for all intents and purposes a black music festival featuring r&b, in a black community and people were going crazy over the girl who sang "You Give Good Love". I mean, if you look at the r&b of the 80's, what the hell was she doing that was so different from Atlantic Starr or Regina Belle or Vesta or Donna Summer? They all sounded like that and it seemed to me that everybody liked them.

I think I remember r&b taking a turn in the 90's where suddenly it became a little rougher around the edges and you couldn't escape it's urban/hip-hop influence. All of a sudden, all the singers started looking manly and wore unisex clothes and had a tough as nails exterior with songs that all sounded alike- it seemed to be that way for girl groups as well as solo artists. The only people looking any different or playing up glamour seemed to be En Vogue. That wasn't my favorite period for r&b music, and if that's what you had to be in order to survive as a singer for that moment in the industry, I can well understand a person pursuing a different trajectory where you record songs that are timeless, and will give you a world wide audience for when you're old and can barely make it to the microphone. Whitney's cousin Dionne was the model template for that formula: and even today she and Burt Bacharach can still travel the world, be put up at the Four Seasons, and play venues like the Royal Albert Concert Hall. Where are all those throwaway singers from the 90's who got famous on trend at today?

I remember when the Whitney backlash started, and her basically responding that she was in this for the long haul as a life long career, to do work that would last. I didn't blame her then, and shole don't blame her now. Everybody couldn't be laid up under Puffy playing the gangsta chick role -and thank gawd Faith and Mary got away from him so that they could grow and have long standing careers. Best thing they ever did for themselves if you ask me. It's interesting to see that many young singers after a certain period of time, will stretch and try to grow into more "adult" music. Whitney said "Eff it. I'm just going to do that from jump street, dull or not". I say good on her.

That's why I can't take Andy's comments seriously. Whitney wasn't doing anything different that even her idols like Aretha Franklin was doing at the time and surely what Anita Baker was doing at the time...

Chancellor said:

I DVR'ed this interview and finally watched it last night. This Interview made me Laugh and Cry in many parts. Ms. Cissy is so serious at times she's hilarious. Now I see where Whitney got her sense of humor from.

One of the parts that had me rolling was when The Mighty O asked Ms. Cissy "So if Whitney was gay would you have a problem with it?"....Cissy said, YEAP....LOL...Oprah was shocked, I was shocked and I bust out laughing cause Cissy was serious...Then Oprah had to ask her again and Cissy gave her the SAME answer...LOL..

Ms. Cissy was being honest and you gotta respect her for that. She's from a different Generation..

I Loved watching the old clips of Cissy and Whitney singing. Cissy has the most amazing voice that was passed on to her daughter only Whitney took it to another level.

It had to be awful for Ms. Cissy to watch her daughter struggle and when she intervened Whitney would always be overtaken by her addiction. Sad, sad way to go through your entire Adult Life even for someone as Iconic as Whitney. All the money in the world can't fix was broken on the inside. Whitney was in pieces for a long, long time...

My heart goes out to her Older brother that introduced her to Drugs. He was Foolish all those decades ago and chose to do wrong by his sister instead of doing the right thing. He claims Whitney forgave him a long time ago and I hope that gives him some peace of mind. But being a Man, when you know that you are the one that introduced a form of Evil into a Loved ones Life you carry that burden to your Grave. That's how we operate as Men. I know Ms. Cissy is praying for him and I hope God places the right people in his Life.

I have Drug Addicts, Drug Dealers & Alcoholics in my Family. I know what it does and the pain it causes. You want to make it all go away but life doesnt work like that, ever....

God be with the Houston Family.

Whitney was definitely her mother's daughter... (yeah she was a daddy's girl too, she really loved her parents). But she definitely took from Cissy more than just her vocal style. I'm glad Michael Houston finally spoke up. It was a matter of time before he said anything but I knew he had been struggling for years too with his drug addictions.

Ottensen said:

Chancellor said:

I felt the same way a long time ago. Then I talked to some long-time Dionne Warwick/Cissy-Whitney Houston fans. They told me years ago that Whitney's brother introduced her to drugs and that addiction runs in that family. I never asked them how they knew that Private information but they were right.

Think about something. The Media painted Bobby as a "Bad boy" BEFORE he did anything bad. The Media looked at Bobby, his age, his videos and assumed he was a Bad boy. He got stereotyped. Granted he eventually proved them right by his actions in their marriage but he was judged wrongly while they dated.

One thing I know for certain is that Black Media always focused on comments that hinted she was doing drugs before Bobby. We also knew from Black Media that Whitney was buck-wild at times and stage Whitney was the Superstar. Mainstream media simply pointed fingers at Bobby regardless..

"Bobby Brown is a bad, bad Man and why is our American Princess with him?"

Well, we know Whitney wasnt innocent at all...She had serious problems...

Chile, by the early 90's Whitney even told us so herself; I recall an interview she did with Vanity Fair during that time and she was not that poised and coached young model from the "You Give Good Love" years. She was grown ass Whitney who said it was the public's own fault for getting it twisted that because she performed in evening dresses every night that she somehow was supposed to be their Princess. I do believe she cursed quite a lot in that interview, too. The whole thing kinda left me looking like this after I read it.

The first sign I got that I knew part of her image was b.s. when she let loose during an interview with Entertainment Weekly. She cussed more than a sailor. I could tell even then, the girl was going through TOO MUCH already even at that stage when the interview took place (1995).

Timmy84 said:

Ottensen said:

I remember that too . It was her, and that first black actress to play on Days of Our lives...virtually the only two black faces to appear in mainstream fashion magazines for young American girls back then. I remember being so excited and showing my mother "Mommy look, it's some black people in my magazine!!!" Then when Whitney's album came out, my first reaction "That's that black model!"....had no idea what the girl's name even was

I remember when her first album came out though, she was getting much love in the black community. In had an uncle in Cleveland who one summer took us to a local music festival (kind of like a Tom Joyner style family reunion); it was for all intents and purposes a black music festival featuring r&b, in a black community and people were going crazy over the girl who sang "You Give Good Love". I mean, if you look at the r&b of the 80's, what the hell was she doing that was so different from Atlantic Starr or Regina Belle or Vesta or Donna Summer? They all sounded like that and it seemed to me that everybody liked them.

I think I remember r&b taking a turn in the 90's where suddenly it became a little rougher around the edges and you couldn't escape it's urban/hip-hop influence. All of a sudden, all the singers started looking manly and wore unisex clothes and had a tough as nails exterior with songs that all sounded alike- it seemed to be that way for girl groups as well as solo artists. The only people looking any different or playing up glamour seemed to be En Vogue. That wasn't my favorite period for r&b music, and if that's what you had to be in order to survive as a singer for that moment in the industry, I can well understand a person pursuing a different trajectory where you record songs that are timeless, and will give you a world wide audience for when you're old and can barely make it to the microphone. Whitney's cousin Dionne was the model template for that formula: and even today she and Burt Bacharach can still travel the world, be put up at the Four Seasons, and play venues like the Royal Albert Concert Hall. Where are all those throwaway singers from the 90's who got famous on trend at today?

I remember when the Whitney backlash started, and her basically responding that she was in this for the long haul as a life long career, to do work that would last. I didn't blame her then, and shole don't blame her now. Everybody couldn't be laid up under Puffy playing the gangsta chick role -and thank gawd Faith and Mary got away from him so that they could grow and have long standing careers. Best thing they ever did for themselves if you ask me. It's interesting to see that many young singers after a certain period of time, will stretch and try to grow into more "adult" music. Whitney said "Eff it. I'm just going to do that from jump street, dull or not". I say good on her.

That's why I can't take Andy's comments seriously. Whitney wasn't doing anything different that even her idols like Aretha Franklin was doing at the time and surely what Anita Baker was doing at the time...

Oh please. Aretha had had some hot stuff in recent years prior to little miss priss's debut with some good rhythmic bass such as "Jump To It" and "Get It Right" which never saw the light of pop day. Little goodie goodie never had anything like that. Deaddie Jackson was already slightly tired but become tremendously tired after her success. As for Anita, she had been around previously but was basically unknown and got very little airplay, if any, and I absolutely lived R&B radio back in those days. I had never even heard of her until 1986 and she was even much more duller than little miss priss herself but doors and airplay had become open to her by then thanks to a certain someone making dull shit popular. And Regina Hell, she followed also and later Mikki Howard. Those folks would never have been as successful as they were if they had come out prior to 1985. Hell, R&B had become so overrun with adult contemporary that adult contemporary R&B stations started popping up. They didn't exist before.

Timmy84 said:

Ottensen said:

Chile, by the early 90's Whitney even told us so herself; I recall an interview she did with Vanity Fair during that time and she was not that poised and coached young model from the "You Give Good Love" years. She was grown ass Whitney who said it was the public's own fault for getting it twisted that because she performed in evening dresses every night that she somehow was supposed to be their Princess. I do believe she cursed quite a lot in that interview, too. The whole thing kinda left me looking like this after I read it.

The first sign I got that I knew part of her image was b.s. when she let loose during an interview with Entertainment Weekly. She cussed more than a sailor. I could tell even then, the girl was going through TOO MUCH already even at that stage when the interview took place (1995).

Now see, if she had come out like that from the beginning, she could have had potential to be great. And since she was on drugs, she could have gotten with Rick James instead of old Silver Balls. Rick could have given her some good music and also a great image like a slut or a whore like he did with The Mary Jane Girls. Hell, she could have even made R&B better than it already was instead of what she actually did which was make it worse.

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[Edited 1/31/13 9:35am]

kibbles said:

Timmy84 said:

That's just it, she did or tried to. But apparently that wasn't enough for the militant knuckleheads.

yes, i agree. whitney was only a few years older than me and i remember her from my seventeen magazine. i was very happy to see someone like me in those photos. when her album came out, i can't say that i ever viewed her as being 'not black enough'. so she was doing "pop" music, so what? she was young and vibrant and 80s; she didn't have to be a soul diva a la aretha. whitney was of her time, and aretha of hers. i had no idea how poor her rep was in some segments of the black community until the soul train awards (which i wasn't watching but heard about. i notice that she was back a few years later, with bobby, and she had a much warmer reception).

i do remember wondering what she saw in bobby, though. marrying a younger, poorer, less successful man does not bode well. i didn't know then that they were into "the life", and who was more responsible for it is a moot point when they were both so determined to be involved in that. sad.

Whitney thought she and Bobby were compatible in a sense. She knew what Bobby was all about but I think she got caught up in Bobby's allure. He did have a charm about him that she found intriguing and, in her own words, Bobby was his own man and could take care of business. She wanted someone like that rather than someone who lived off her. In a way though, you could say Bobby DID live off her. In a way.

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

That's why I can't take Andy's comments seriously. Whitney wasn't doing anything different that even her idols like Aretha Franklin was doing at the time and surely what Anita Baker was doing at the time...

Oh please. Aretha had had some hot stuff in recent years prior to little miss priss's debut with some good rhythmic bass such as "Jump To It" and "Get It Right" which never saw the light of pop day. Little goodie goodie never had anything like that. Deaddie Jackson was already slightly tired but become tremendously tired after her success. As for Anita, she had been around previously but was basically unknown and got very little airplay, if any, and I absolutely lived R&B radio back in those days. I had never even heard of her until 1986 and she was even much more duller than little miss priss herself but doors and airplay had become open to her by then thanks to a certain someone making dull shit popular. And Regina Hell, she followed also and later Mikki Howard. Those folks would never have been as successful as they were if they had come out prior to 1985. Hell, R&B had become so overrun with adult contemporary that adult contemporary R&B stations started popping up. They didn't exist before.

You know you wrong. Deddie and Ms. Hell??.

Totally unrelated, but did I ever tell y'all Deddie's obviously confused behind tried to hit on my big sister once? He was a friend of one of my friends (another singer) & for some reason that night he was was feeling straight that night and chasing my itty bitty sister (the other singer's best friend) around the club with the Eye of the Tiger on his face. She was completely traumatized

Lord, my mother dang near wore that Aretha Jump to It al-blum down to the grooves: towards the weekend she would put in on after work and sing to it with a screwdriver cocktail while she cooked dinner . Jump to It and Get It right were definitely the jams, but don't forget Aunt Re-re also got her old folks Adult Contemporary groove on just the year before with that George Benson duet "Love All the Hurt Away". She was doing that MOR stuff too! (Incidentally I love that damn song )

Now about Anita; I guess it depended on where you were in the country when she first came out, because up north we were into her hardcore by the time I was finishing Jr. High (85' ?) My best friend at the time wanted to get the cassette for her step sister, because she said the girl was so tone-deaf she only sounded good singing Anita's songs But I really only remember her as being accepted soley by r&b radio and having nowhere near the success Whit was having; also...Anita was the kind of artist that was crossing over into Smooth Jazz radio, being played with Kenny G. and 'nem...so I always considered her to be in her own lane but still, you know, just chilled out.

I think Clive davis took Whit and built on an already existing formula of using soulful voices to sing Middle of the Road Music. I know you hate Princess prissy, but i really blame all those terrible sh*t-hop groups of the 90's for the decline of R&B. Outside of Mary, Faith, and en Vogue they didn't do nothing for me.

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

The first sign I got that I knew part of her image was b.s. when she let loose during an interview with Entertainment Weekly. She cussed more than a sailor. I could tell even then, the girl was going through TOO MUCH already even at that stage when the interview took place (1995).

Now see, if she had come out like that from the beginning, she could have had potential to be great. And since she was on drugs, she could have gotten with Rick James instead of old Silver Balls. Rick could have given her some good music and also a great image like a slut or a whore like he did with The Mary Jane Girls. Hell, she could have even made R&B better than it already was instead of what she actually did which was make it worse.

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[Edited 1/31/13 9:35am]

Uh uh-- See, I just can't

Not one artist can be blamed for the downfall of a genre. Labels played a part and we, the consumers, also played a part. You get fickle and want something new. Once that happens, what was once the craze stops being the craze. It was bound to happen whether we liked it or not. Can't change time.

Besides, people ain't gonna like the same thing. The folks that dug Donna and Chaka weren't gonna dig Whitney and Anita and those who dug the latter two weren't gonna dig Mary and Faith just like people now don't dig Beyonce and Keyshia Cole.

I just bring up those names to bring up a point and end my part of that discussion and back on to Cissy's interview.

vainandy said:

Timmy84 said:

The first sign I got that I knew part of her image was b.s. when she let loose during an interview with Entertainment Weekly. She cussed more than a sailor. I could tell even then, the girl was going through TOO MUCH already even at that stage when the interview took place (1995).

Now see, if she had come out like that from the beginning, she could have had potential to be great. And since she was on drugs, she could have gotten with Rick James instead of old Silver Balls. Rick could have given her some good music and also a great image like a slut or a whore like he did with The Mary Jane Girls. Hell, she could have even made R&B better than it already was instead of what she actually did which was make it worse.

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.

.

[Edited 1/31/13 9:35am]

You crazy, you know that?