I was clicking around on FaceBook and I came across this video.. As a meat eater, I was truly disturbed. I've seen videos like this before, but not this graphic.. Makes me really want to go vegetarian

Man has always been a meat eater and I highly doubt there's ever been any attractive way we've killed and prepared our meat.

That said, I don't want to see how sausage is made.

RodeoSchro said:

I would agree with everything you said... If only I could un watch that video.

being as how I enjoy bacon and pork spareribs so much, I refuse to click on that vid.

RodeoSchro said:

I doubt man has always eaten meat. We don't have the teeth or claws for it.

I call myself a meat hypocrite. I eat it but I hate to think about what it is I'm eating

I'm still on my journey little by little towards meat free.

I vasiclate between meat, vegan, vegitarian, and raw-vegan depending

on budget and time.

It's not easy prep and timewise, but the food taste great.

Among other reasons, this is why I probably not going to own meat

eating pets in the future.

NDRU said:

RodeoSchro said:

Man has always been a meat eater and I highly doubt there's ever been any attractive way we've killed and prepared our meat.

That said, I don't want to see how sausage is made.

I doubt man has always eaten meat. We don't have the teeth or claws for it.

Many primates eat meat. Orangutans actually eat Slow Loris (other primates), and obviously chimps eat monkeys.

Meat is not the staple of their diets though. I would guess like the primates we evolve from, there are benefits from eating meat, but certain not at the frequency and scale that we've adopted.

And I think it would also depend on ethnicity and location. Inuettes for example, eat mostly meat and never suffered health issues until they adopted our foods.

Been trying to stay away from the pork since I heard there's a parasite they can't kill in all of it.

Oh yeah, not watching that video...I've been traumatized enough by Fast Food Nation....

NDRU said:

I call myself a meat hypocrite. I eat it but I hate to think about what it is I'm eating

Same here..

I feel terrible for the animals. But I really don't see how I could completely stop eating meat.. I like it too much.. especially beef. I probably could stop eating pork tho

imago said:

NDRU said:

RodeoSchro said: I doubt man has always eaten meat. We don't have the teeth or claws for it.

Many primates eat meat. Orangutans actually eat Slow Loris (other primates), and obviously chimps eat monkeys.

Meat is not the staple of their diets though. I would guess like the primates we evolve from, there are benefits from eating meat, but certain not at the frequency and scale that we've adopted.

And I think it would also depend on ethnicity and location. Inuettes for example, eat mostly meat and never suffered health issues until they adopted our foods.

But we don't have teeth like chimps and orangutans

NDRU said:

imago said:

Many primates eat meat. Orangutans actually eat Slow Loris (other primates), and obviously chimps eat monkeys.

Meat is not the staple of their diets though. I would guess like the primates we evolve from, there are benefits from eating meat, but certain not at the frequency and scale that we've adopted.

And I think it would also depend on ethnicity and location. Inuettes for example, eat mostly meat and never suffered health issues until they adopted our foods.

But we don't have teeth like chimps and orangutans

Because we don't need to. Chimps & Orangutans use those massive canines for defense, intimidation & slaughter MORE than for eating.

We have remnants of them, but lost the need for them somewhere along the evolutionary way. Just like we lost our tails.

NDRU said:

imago said:

Many primates eat meat. Orangutans actually eat Slow Loris (other primates), and obviously chimps eat monkeys.

Meat is not the staple of their diets though. I would guess like the primates we evolve from, there are benefits from eating meat, but certain not at the frequency and scale that we've adopted.

And I think it would also depend on ethnicity and location. Inuettes for example, eat mostly meat and never suffered health issues until they adopted our foods.

But we don't have teeth like chimps and orangutans

This is because of good oral hygiene on our part.

If you notice our teeth don't resemble those of our European counterparts here on the org either.

PurpleJedi said:

NDRU said:

But we don't have teeth like chimps and orangutans

Because we don't need to. Chimps & Orangutans use those massive canines for defense, intimidation & slaughter MORE than for eating.

We have remnants of them, but lost the need for them somewhere along the evolutionary way. Just like we lost our tails.

I'm not so sure about us not needing them if they're really for defense--we didn't have guns 100,000 years ago. Plus, I believe teeth are primarily for eating or catching food (ie offense), not defense.

But the point is, humans don't have them. Maybe our ancestors did have them, but humans don't and never have.

[Edited 1/24/13 11:36am]

NDRU said:

PurpleJedi said:

Because we don't need to. Chimps & Orangutans use those massive canines for defense, intimidation & slaughter MORE than for eating.

We have remnants of them, but lost the need for them somewhere along the evolutionary way. Just like we lost our tails.

I'm not so sure about us not needing them if they're really for defense--we didn't have guns 100,000 years ago. Plus, I believe teeth are primarily for eating or catching food (ie offense), not defense.

But the point is, humans don't have them. Maybe our ancestors did have them, but humans don't and never have.

[Edited 1/24/13 11:36am]

OK.

So...if our ancestors had them, then we actually "have" been eating meat - at least since whatever primordial species gave rise to the omnivore primate that resulted in homo sapien.

Gibbons are not meat eaters and yet they have huge canines, similar to that of the great apes (certainly larger in proportion than that of humans). They don't use them to "catch" anything.

I dunno...I can't dismiss the "natural" tendency for homo sapien to be an omnivore simply beause we lost our large canines or claws.

Also...humans have a natural craving for animal fat (which is why most people's mouth waters when they smell fat cooking...such as bacon or most BBQ meats).

I need a nice, juicy burger now. Preferably with bacon and pulled pork on top.

PurpleJedi said:

NDRU said:

I'm not so sure about us not needing them if they're really for defense--we didn't have guns 100,000 years ago. Plus, I believe teeth are primarily for eating or catching food (ie offense), not defense.

But the point is, humans don't have them. Maybe our ancestors did have them, but humans don't and never have.

[Edited 1/24/13 11:36am]

OK.

So...if our ancestors had them, then we actually "have" been eating meat - at least since whatever primordial species gave rise to the omnivore primate that resulted in homo sapien.

Gibbons are not meat eaters and yet they have huge canines, similar to that of the great apes (certainly larger in proportion than that of humans). They don't use them to "catch" anything.

I dunno...I can't dismiss the "natural" tendency for homo sapien to be an omnivore simply beause we lost our large canines or claws.

Also...humans have a natural craving for animal fat (which is why most people's mouth waters when they smell fat cooking...such as bacon or most BBQ meats).

I need a nice, juicy burger now. Preferably with bacon and pulled pork on top.

Well, obviously humans do eat meat and their bodies are able to process it.

I do think that humans lack of canines says something about their natural behavior (ie that they don't naturally kill very much with their teeth, either for food or for fighting). And if even monkeys with big canines like gibbons don't eat very much meat, like you say, then doesn't it stand to reason that humans' (who are not at all equipped to catch and kill animals) natural diet doesn't have much meat?

So how much meat should humans be eating? As much as we want, I guess, but maybe there's a reason I think it's gross at the same time I think it's delicious.

[Edited 1/24/13 12:13pm]

NDRU said:

imago said:

Many primates eat meat. Orangutans actually eat Slow Loris (other primates), and obviously chimps eat monkeys.

Meat is not the staple of their diets though. I would guess like the primates we evolve from, there are benefits from eating meat, but certain not at the frequency and scale that we've adopted.

And I think it would also depend on ethnicity and location. Inuettes for example, eat mostly meat and never suffered health issues until they adopted our foods.

But we don't have teeth like chimps and orangutans

So how do we eat meat then?

chimps baboons and orangutans rarely eat meat, fruit and vegs are their main source,

gorillas don't eat meat but they have the same teeth,

Are you saying in order for earlier man to eat meat they need the teeth to kill

we wouldn't need large canine teeth to eat fish (insects grubs etc)

Humans Have Canine Teeth but Their Use Matters The Most

Earlier it was difficult to correlate whether humans had canine teeth or not. There has occurred dramatic change in the approach now. One gets benefited of scientific innovations and research findings that help us understand that humans have canine teeth but their use differs from animals. The heart of the matter is that you must know mammalian oral anatomy and canine teeth which are also named cuspids, dogteeth or fangs.

Definitely humans have canine teeth. This fact can’t be denied at any level. Actually these anterior-most teeth linked with maxillary bone help humans on various stages. These are the teeth that remain associated with basal portion which distinguishes them from the rest. Such canines are pivotal in performing several roles. These are specific categories of teeth that have specific roles. It can be said that teeth combination of humans would be incomplete without canine teeth.

Canine Teeth

Before you differentiate canine teeth and their presence in humans and animals it is a must to know their roles. They are pointed teeth in upper and lower jaw and are longer in shape as compared to rest teeth. In most cases these teeth are flattened whose appearance is seen and felt. When you look at them minutely you find that canine teeth of human still resemble like incisors. Role of canine teeth in humans is as important as the canine teeth in animals.

These teeth hold food and help you in tearing them apart. It is therefore important to know that canine teeth helps human when they eat food, though they perform several miscellaneous tasks too.

Humans and Canine Teeth

Overall functioning of canine teeth in humans is similar to that of animals. These are large sized teeth whose role cannot be negated. Usually these teeth are four in number in every individual – combination of two in upper jaw and the rest two in lower complete them. The example of this unique setting and similarity is felt in humans and dogs.

Furthermore, let it also be explained that humans’ canine teeth differ for some extent from the canine teeth of animals – actual canines what medical sciences claim. Canine teeth of animals are not only longer but also too much pointed. Canine teeth of humans therefore don’t match with all animals and remain unique in one way or the other.

Why Canine Teeth?

A question arises why humans have canine teeth. Simple reply of this query is that humans eat meat since time immemorial. They can’t perform this duty of theirs without the four canine teeth which everybody possesses. Though humans have such teeth they don’t forget the instinct while making best use of them in the civilized society in which they survive unlike animals that turn volatile in using them.

OldFriends4Sale said:

NDRU said:

But we don't have teeth like chimps and orangutans

So how do we eat meat then?

chimps baboons and orangutans rarely eat meat, fruit and vegs are their main source,

gorillas don't eat meat but they have the same teeth,

Are you saying in order for earlier man to eat meat they need the teeth to kill

we wouldn't need large canine teeth to eat fish (insects grubs etc)

I'm saying we don't have killing teeth.

Obviously we eat meat and have for a while, and monkeys eat some meat, but humans aren't equipped to catch or kill large animals, so I believe that long ago we did not eat much.

Even catching a fish or rabbit would be hard without tools. But yes, maybe insects etc.

NDRU said:

PurpleJedi said:

OK.

So...if our ancestors had them, then we actually "have" been eating meat - at least since whatever primordial species gave rise to the omnivore primate that resulted in homo sapien.

Gibbons are not meat eaters and yet they have huge canines, similar to that of the great apes (certainly larger in proportion than that of humans). They don't use them to "catch" anything.

I dunno...I can't dismiss the "natural" tendency for homo sapien to be an omnivore simply beause we lost our large canines or claws.

Also...humans have a natural craving for animal fat (which is why most people's mouth waters when they smell fat cooking...such as bacon or most BBQ meats).

I need a nice, juicy burger now. Preferably with bacon and pulled pork on top.

Well, obviously humans do eat meat and their bodies are able to process it.

I do think that humans lack of canines says something about their natural behavior (ie that they don't naturally kill very much with their teeth, either for food or for fighting). And if even monkeys with big canines like gibbons don't eat very much meat, like you say, then doesn't it stand to reason that humans' (who are not at all equipped to catch and kill animals) natural diet doesn't have much meat?

So how much meat should humans be eating? As much as we want, I guess, but maybe there's a reason I think it's gross at the same time I think it's delicious.

[Edited 1/24/13 12:13pm]

That's what I was getting at. We developed the ability to hunt & defend ourselves with our hands (weapons).

BUT, we clearly are omnivores, therefore not too much meat. In fact, daily consumption of meat is probably not natural AT ALL and people who eat beef EVERY DAY of their lives tend to develop health issues.

PurpleJedi said:

NDRU said:

Well, obviously humans do eat meat and their bodies are able to process it.

I do think that humans lack of canines says something about their natural behavior (ie that they don't naturally kill very much with their teeth, either for food or for fighting). And if even monkeys with big canines like gibbons don't eat very much meat, like you say, then doesn't it stand to reason that humans' (who are not at all equipped to catch and kill animals) natural diet doesn't have much meat?

So how much meat should humans be eating? As much as we want, I guess, but maybe there's a reason I think it's gross at the same time I think it's delicious.

[Edited 1/24/13 12:13pm]

That's what I was getting at. We developed the ability to hunt & defend ourselves with our hands (weapons).

BUT, we clearly are omnivores, therefore not too much meat. In fact, daily consumption of meat is probably not natural AT ALL and people who eat beef EVERY DAY of their lives tend to develop health issues.

interesting, I suppose that our teeth could have evolved with the use of tools.

NDRU said:

PurpleJedi said:

That's what I was getting at. We developed the ability to hunt & defend ourselves with our hands (weapons).

BUT, we clearly are omnivores, therefore not too much meat. In fact, daily consumption of meat is probably not natural AT ALL and people who eat beef EVERY DAY of their lives tend to develop health issues.

interesting, I suppose that our teeth could have evolved with the use of tools.

(BTW - I expect any minute that someone who actually knows what they're talking about is going to school you & me on this stuff)

PurpleJedi said:

NDRU said:

interesting, I suppose that our teeth could have evolved with the use of tools.

(BTW - I expect any minute that someone who actually knows what they're talking about is going to school you & me on this stuff)

LOL true!

Actually I just looked, and the human ancestors didn't have large canines even before they used tools

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...f_Homo.svg

So this discussion is taking me back to college, and I have a hazy memory of learning that the jaw was one of the first changes in human ancestors. They developed a less powerful jaw that didn't require such a thick skull, which then allowed for the brain to grow.

So the changes in the teeth may not have much to do with food at all, but just a random mutation

NDRU said:

PurpleJedi said:

(BTW - I expect any minute that someone who actually knows what they're talking about is going to school you & me on this stuff)

LOL true!

Actually I just looked, and the human ancestors didn't have large canines even before they used tools

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...f_Homo.svg

So this discussion is taking me back to college, and I have a hazy memory of learning that the jaw was one of the first changes in human ancestors. They developed a less powerful jaw that didn't require such a thick skull, which then allowed for the brain to grow.

So the changes in the teeth may not have much to do with food at all, but just a random mutation

Ahhhaaa...!

So (necessity being the mother of invention) it's possible that the smaller jaw and less-formidable teeth spawned the "smart apes" to perfect their weapons/tools?

(OK. Enough of this already...where's the boobs thread?)

PurpleJedi said:

NDRU said:

LOL true!

Actually I just looked, and the human ancestors didn't have large canines even before they used tools

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...f_Homo.svg

So this discussion is taking me back to college, and I have a hazy memory of learning that the jaw was one of the first changes in human ancestors. They developed a less powerful jaw that didn't require such a thick skull, which then allowed for the brain to grow.

So the changes in the teeth may not have much to do with food at all, but just a random mutation

Ahhhaaa...!

So (necessity being the mother of invention) it's possible that the smaller jaw and less-formidable teeth spawned the "smart apes" to perfect their weapons/tools?

(OK. Enough of this already...where's the boobs thread?)

Ask, and you shall receive...

imago said:

NDRU said:

But we don't have teeth like chimps and orangutans

This is because of good oral hygiene on our part.

If you notice our teeth don't resemble those of our European counterparts here on the org either.

Slag our teeth off all you like, but lets be honest we Europeans don't need a 45 Calibre to feel hard, we can afford Viagra for that.........

and another pointer....... We aint a bunch of fat asses like our American counterparts.............Land of the Free? Sure as hell aint free of fatty food.........

NDRU said:

PurpleJedi said:

That's what I was getting at. We developed the ability to hunt & defend ourselves with our hands (weapons).

BUT, we clearly are omnivores, therefore not too much meat. In fact, daily consumption of meat is probably not natural AT ALL and people who eat beef EVERY DAY of their lives tend to develop health issues.

interesting, I suppose that our teeth could have evolved with the use of tools.

No, Humans eat Meat and Vegetation, therefore, our Teeth where not essential to hold prey as, say a Tiger would, a Tiger needs to kill its prey so has large gripping Canines etc, but look at a Sheep, or Cow, then compare teh Tiger and Sheep to a human and see teh resemblance.

This was basic Biology in Schools 30 years ago lol.

itsnotallover said:

NDRU said:

interesting, I suppose that our teeth could have evolved with the use of tools.

No, Humans eat Meat and Vegetation, therefore, our Teeth where not essential to hold prey as, say a Tiger would, a Tiger needs to kill its prey so has large gripping Canines etc, but look at a Sheep, or Cow, then compare teh Tiger and Sheep to a human and see teh resemblance.

This was basic Biology in Schools 30 years ago lol.

speaking of diets, you may need more fiber in yours

NDRU said:

itsnotallover said:

No, Humans eat Meat and Vegetation, therefore, our Teeth where not essential to hold prey as, say a Tiger would, a Tiger needs to kill its prey so has large gripping Canines etc, but look at a Sheep, or Cow, then compare teh Tiger and Sheep to a human and see teh resemblance.

This was basic Biology in Schools 30 years ago lol.

speaking of diets, you may need more fiber in yours

Not at all, We have three basic type of Teeth. One for Shearing, One for gripping and one for chewing. Animals that need to grip prey have pronounced canine teeth, those that don't have lesser canines. Simple Biology. In the Case of the Ape mentioned earlier, defense too plays a part, but down to the same Animosity of Survival.

If Humans where not (or never) meant to eat meat, we would have evolved without Canine Teeth. Quite simple really, why have Gripping teeth to eat a Carrot?

I don't need more Fibre in my Diet, I only eat at Maccy D once in a blue moon, not every day

WouEefPurpleJedi said:

Purp I watched it and I am still going to get down and dirty with the love of my life...ribs!
I went to an ag school for culinary arts. They have a beef farm and such..would get everything fresh..bones, eggs, meat. I think they also had a course where you killed a cow..