REDFEATHERS said:

I like my cucumbers crisp, right out of the fridge. No warm cukes for me, nope.

LaVisHh said:

i believe animals have varying degrees of sentience like humans, and are also capable of emotions and fear of the unknown.

but i think all animals understand, on some level, that it is an 'eat or be eaten world'. this exchange is all around us, all the time.

imo even if it might not be 'wrong' to eat animals, we still owe them love and respect and should show them the utmost mercy when killing them

good christ...

it took ignorant scientist to finally come to the commen sense conclusion that animals do experience feelings quite exactly the same as we do.



So I suppose if it were true that animals didnt feel the same, then it would also be true that a blind or deaf person , or a person that didnt speak the english language, wouldnt feel pain or death in the same way an english speaking person does.


STUPID!!

teller said:

This is a horrible thing to say, teller.

LaVisHh said:

yes they do and for some it's not so easy to accept the murder of animals for consumption..but its the presentation, out of site out of mind aspect happening..when you get chicken served you don't witness it getting beheaded and plucked etc or cows getting gassed, bludgeoned etc...

XxAxX said:

and look at us so called evolved animals (humans) who kill each other for having different ideas, theologies etc

rdhull said:

In my experience, I would have to say animals do feel the same pain as us humans do. Certainly, any time I've tortured a small animal, it has looked like it was in pain.

I doubt they feel the SAME pain...but I'm sure they do FEEL pain, unlike what most people will have u believe.

Reminds me of the movie "Powder"--when he
links the dying deer to the man who shot it and he feels what the deer feels.

When my cat "lost" her babies, she was
noticeably distressed.

teller said:

An animal attaching meaning to death and/or feeling the same physical pain as humans aren't the same things.

Although I don't know if it would be any different than what humans feel, animals in general definitely feel physical pain.

" A clan of elephants was moving towards newer territory, when suddenly one of the elephants fell over in. Soon enough the other elephants noticed that one of their group was in trouble. Arriving by the elephants side, they realized she was not moving. They attempted to get her up on her feet but to no avail. As a last resort, the male elephants attempted to mount her in order to arouse her to consciousness. This was not to be. The elephant then left the dead body and moved on. The next day, elephants returned to mourn and pay homage to the lost friend, family member, clan member and elephant. These two stories and many more create a good picture of the elephant´s emotional depth. The plain truth is that elephants have a deep need to remember and mourn lost ones. This can even be observed many years since the death of a loved one. Without prior knowledge of an in-depth longitudinal study our observations would be meaningless. But, as observed by Joyce Poole, when an elephant walks past a place that a loved one died he/she will stop dead still; a silent and empty pause that can last several minutes. An elephant pause. I wonder if, like us, they relive experiences shared with the loved when they visit their place of death or resting spot. This is not that implausible given their need to investigate and touch the bones of a dead fellow elephant."



source : Google

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[This message was edited Sat Mar 8 4:57:28 PST 2003 by Lleena]

LaVisHh said:

Of course they feel pain. And plenty of people do not accept the murder of animals for consumption. You pack of flesh eating bastards

teller said:

I had much repect for you Teller until that last post.

I had always thought you were more intelligent than that!
[This message was edited Sat Mar 8 5:31:08 PST 2003 by minneapolisgenius]
[This message was edited Sat Mar 8 5:32:14 PST 2003 by minneapolisgenius]

minneapolisgenius said:

Why...because I eat meat? Geez...

oh god...i don't want to know...

damn i love me some BBQ'd mammal flesh!!!

i know, i know i'm a disgusting carnivore...

teller said:

No, because it seems like that's all you think of them as. Food. As if they are so much below you, that they have no feelings or thoughts.

I eat meat too, so it's not about that. I didn't for about eight years, and slowly I've started eating more meat. I still don't eat red meat, but not for any reasons having to do with animal cruelty, health or whatever, I just don't like it.

minneapolisgenius said:

I cannot help the fact that animals are more primitive than we are. I'm sure they feel pain, on a perceptual level, and that they can learn some very basic cause-and-effect and have personalities. Whether or not cows have a soul, I guess, is for God to know, but there's nothing wrong with considering them food. We all do it, except for vegetarians.

of course they experience physical pain......and sadly, cannot do much about it when it occurs...

i also think most animals experience emotional pain as well...after seeing my dog pass away recently and all of the actions that followed up to it, i think its possible that animals may understand the concept of death and what happens after that point better than some humans...some animals seem to be more in touch with their lives, like knowing when they will die, more so than some people...most animals love unconditionally and r not cruelly judgmental, as humans r supposed to be...and most animals attack only when frightened or put in a position in which they feel they must kill to survive...

I have expereinced animals who have feelings emotions such as depression, joy,longing, lonelines etc...animals aren't animitrons! Descartes bullshit.

rdhull said:

Exactly.

being a little gross here, i have to state this...

humans consume humans - whether for survival or pleasure

and - most normal people consume animals so we won't be tempted by the lull of flesh. Our source of healthiness depends upon the consumption of meat is a dietary standard for humans as well as lions, bears and anacondas.

personally i would rather have a juicy rare COW steak..
Than OH i dunno a SWEET well cooked SAG burger...

heh heh sorry MOM...

REDFEATHERS said:

I stand (or sit) corrected. Perhaps I misunderstood the immediacy and humaneness of a Kosher death. I'll go back to my books.

LaVisHh said:

> u go on girl I am a vegetarian too 5 years of seeing the light !

REDFEATHERS said:

U are what u eat. U'll probably get heart disease, but defiently high corestral which u could sell of buy the pint. Evolution of us proves we weren't meant 2 eat meat, now i don't wann back it up with facts, cuz its a waste of time. But before u say demonic and unrational stuff, consider this, they are better than u, humans, they were here before, millions of years before, and theres a purpose 4 their origin, beginin.

An alien looks down on a human and says, lets eat him, but y? Cuz hes of lower intelligence. Thus this is abusive plagiarism, done by the superior.

All these species dat have survived, most for thosands of years, deserve respect (2 feed the young). If they weren't here we wouldn't have been. What i hate most is this captalist controled consumption, feedin them 2 the gills, so their produce (stock) has more value. This is a unethical, ur natural system.

Also u don't have a radar built in, a nose dat can smell a drop of blood a mile away, or any of the physical advances, dat make u more special than them.

Sam 8)

yes. defly do.