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Reply #120 posted 10/24/12 8:55am

Rightly

avatar

breese said:

Punch a kid in the face? No.

Punch a girl in the head for spitting on me? After telling me she'd beat up my daughter and grandmother? Absolutely.

y'got that right.

small circles, big wheels!
I've got a pretty firm grip on the obvious!
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Reply #121 posted 10/24/12 10:15am

Tremolina

CarrieMpls said:

tinaz said:

x3

Add one more to the mix. Punching anyone other than in self defense is never OK.

Add me too.

Just because she deserved it/ had it coming, doesn't make it 'right'.

How many Americans agree with me?? wink

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Reply #122 posted 10/24/12 10:25am

Stymie

Tremolina said:

CarrieMpls said:

Add one more to the mix. Punching anyone other than in self defense is never OK.

Add me too.

Just because she deserved it/ had it coming, doesn't make it 'right'.

How many Americans agree with me?? wink

Nothing I saw in that video makes me think she deserved it or had it coming.

I don't even see where she hit him first.

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Reply #123 posted 10/24/12 10:40am

OldFriends4Sal
e

Stymie said:

Tremolina said:

Add me too.

Just because she deserved it/ had it coming, doesn't make it 'right'.

How many Americans agree with me?? wink

Nothing I saw in that video makes me think she deserved it or had it coming.

I don't even see where she hit him first.

2:59/3:00 min in

[Edited 10/24/12 10:41am]

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Reply #124 posted 10/24/12 10:43am

Stymie

Looks like she pushed him to me. And even if she did hit him, she did not deserve what he did to her.

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Reply #125 posted 10/24/12 10:44am

Stymie

Rightly said:

breese said:

Punch a kid in the face? No.

Punch a girl in the head for spitting on me? After telling me she'd beat up my daughter and grandmother? Absolutely.

y'got that right.

Yeah beat someone up for something they said and I guess spitting is the equivalent of hitting.

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Reply #126 posted 10/24/12 10:54am

Tremolina

OldFriends4Sale said:

Stymie said:

Nothing I saw in that video makes me think she deserved it or had it coming.

I don't even see where she hit him first.

2:59/3:00 min in

[Edited 10/24/12 10:41am]

Again, not right what he did, but she totally had it coming. Cussing him out for 3 minutes, calling him n***er constantly, spitting on him and then either pushing him hard or trying to choke him, in any case physically attacking him also.

That said the guy handled it completely wrong. He should have stopped the bus after a maximum of 3 warnings and tell her to leave. Not acting a fool crying "you spit on me bitch!!", while driving and also saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like ma man"shit. The guy in the orange worker vest moreover should have intervened and tell her to shut it, but it looks like he was ther just waiting or even making it to go wrong. All the other people in the bus too, what a sad performance.

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Reply #127 posted 10/24/12 10:59am

Stymie

Tremolina said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

2:59/3:00 min in

[Edited 10/24/12 10:41am]

Again, not right what he did, but she totally had it coming. Cussing him out for 3 minutes, calling him n***er constantly, spitting on him and then either pushing him hard or trying to choke him, in any case physically attacking him also.

That said the guy handled it completely wrong. He should have stopped the bus after a maximum of 3 warnings and tell her to leave. Not acting a fool crying "you spit on me bitch!!", while driving and also saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like ma man"shit. The guy in the orange worker vest moreover should have intervened and tell her to shut it, but it looks like he was ther just waiting or even making it to go wrong. All the other people in the bus too, what a sad performance.

She had that beatdown coming? Really? He should have pulled the bus over immiediately and put her off. End of drama.

He didn't want to look like a punk in front of the people on the bus so he punched a woman half his size.

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Reply #128 posted 10/24/12 11:06am

Tremolina

OldFriends4Sale said:

according to the law, what he did may or may not be in lines with what the law says as far as self defense is concerned

..

A court will have to determine if the upper cut was warrented.

Assault

An assault invoves:

  1. An intentional, unlawful threat or "offer" to cause bodily injury to another by force;
  2. Under circumstances which create in the other person a well-founded fear of imminent peril;
  3. Where there exists the apparent present ability to carry out the act if not prevented.

Note that an assault can be completed even if there is no actual contact with the plaintiff, and even if the defendant had no actual ability to carry out the apparent threat. For example, a defendant who points a realistic toy gun at the plaintiff may be liable for assault, even though the defendant was fifty feet away from the plaintiff and had no actual ability to inflict harm from that distance.

Battery

A battery is the willful or intentional touching of a person against that person’s will by another person, or by an object or substance put in motion by that other person. Please note that an offensive touching can constitute a battery even if it does not cause injury, and could not reasonably be expected to cause injury. A defendant who emphatically pokes the plaintiff in the chest with his index finger to emphasize a point may be culpable for battery (although the damages award that results may well be nominal). A defendant who spits on a plaintiff, even though there is little chance that the spitting will cause any injury other than to the plaintiff's dignity, has committed a battery.

Self-Defense

A person who is assaulted may use such reasonable force as may be necessary, or which at the time reasonably appears to be necessary, to protect himself or herself from bodily harm. An act of self-defense must ordinarily be proportionate to the threat. That is, if you believe a person is going to spit on you, depending upon the context it may be reasonable to push the person away, but it would not be reasonable to hit the person with a baseball bat.

A plaintiff may be expected to withdraw from the threat, if possible, before engaging in forcible resistance. However, if the plaintiff is in his own home and the defendant is not a member of the plaintiff's household, a plaintiff will typically not be required to further withdraw from the threat once the plaintiff has retreated to his own home.

Provocation

Words alone, no matter how insulting or provocative, do not justify an assault or battery against the person who utters the words.

http://www.expertlaw.com/...ttery.html

[Edited 10/23/12 11:43am]

I think it's pretty clear that she assaulted and battered him; completely unlawful and also dangerous behaviour. She could have caused an accident with her foolishness.

He had a right to defend himself, but he didn't use that right proportionally. An upper cut like he gave can be compared to hitting somebody with a baseball bat. You can cause serious injury to somebody with that. If you hit right under the nose you could kill somebody.

In this case the assault and battery the passenger displayed obviously wasn't in the same league, nor did the busdriver have to fear for that. This is proven already by his own foolish and agressive reactions, saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like a man". From a bus driver and/or public servant a better and more reasonable reaction may be expected. Like simply warning her and if she does not listen put her out the bus. Call the law when it gets out of hand.

But he didn't do that. Instead he choose to hit her "like a man". Wrong and excessive.

Conclusion: both should be charged with and convicted for assault and battery.

Case closed.

[Edited 10/24/12 11:24am]

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Reply #129 posted 10/24/12 11:08am

Tremolina

Stymie said:

Tremolina said:

Again, not right what he did, but she totally had it coming. Cussing him out for 3 minutes, calling him n***er constantly, spitting on him and then either pushing him hard or trying to choke him, in any case physically attacking him also.

That said the guy handled it completely wrong. He should have stopped the bus after a maximum of 3 warnings and tell her to leave. Not acting a fool crying "you spit on me bitch!!", while driving and also saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like ma man"shit. The guy in the orange worker vest moreover should have intervened and tell her to shut it, but it looks like he was ther just waiting or even making it to go wrong. All the other people in the bus too, what a sad performance.

She had that beatdown coming? Really? He should have pulled the bus over immiediately and put her off. End of drama.

He didn't want to look like a punk in front of the people on the bus so he punched a woman half his size.

You should read my posts again or better smile

I don't mean it was 'right' when I say she had it coming. In fact I clearly said it was wrong what he did lol

and I totally agree with the bolded part.

[Edited 10/24/12 11:09am]

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Reply #130 posted 10/24/12 11:10am

Stymie

Tremolina said:

Stymie said:

She had that beatdown coming? Really? He should have pulled the bus over immiediately and put her off. End of drama.

He didn't want to look like a punk in front of the people on the bus so he punched a woman half his size.

You should read my posts again or better smile

I don't mean it was 'right' when I say she had it coming. In fact I clearly said it was wrong what he did lol

and I totally agree with the bolded part.

[Edited 10/24/12 11:09am]

Thank you. I was totally confused by your post. lol

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Reply #131 posted 10/24/12 11:15am

OldFriends4Sal
e

Tremolina said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

2:59/3:00 min in

Again, not right what he did, but she totally had it coming. Cussing him out for 3 minutes, calling him n***er constantly, spitting on him and then either pushing him hard or trying to choke him, in any case physically attacking him also.

That said the guy handled it completely wrong. He should have stopped the bus after a maximum of 3 warnings and tell her to leave. Not acting a fool crying "you spit on me bitch!!", while driving and also saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like ma man"shit. The guy in the orange worker vest moreover should have intervened and tell her to shut it, but it looks like he was ther just waiting or even making it to go wrong. All the other people in the bus too, what a sad performance.

She did. If it was in another social setting just 2 people (let's say 2 women, 1 older and her and the older lady popped her like that, people would be cheering) (if it was a younger guy who got popped people would feel the sympathy they do for her and would probably cheer)

Actually this is just 3 min of the video so it was probably longer, I heard him saying that she need to step back behind the yellow line too

he did handle it wrong, Bus drivers become easy victims and like postal workers I can understand how bus drivers can go postal, evenmoreso than mail men

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Reply #132 posted 10/24/12 11:20am

Tremolina

OldFriends4Sale said:

Tremolina said:

Again, not right what he did, but she totally had it coming. Cussing him out for 3 minutes, calling him n***er constantly, spitting on him and then either pushing him hard or trying to choke him, in any case physically attacking him also.

That said the guy handled it completely wrong. He should have stopped the bus after a maximum of 3 warnings and tell her to leave. Not acting a fool crying "you spit on me bitch!!", while driving and also saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like ma man"shit. The guy in the orange worker vest moreover should have intervened and tell her to shut it, but it looks like he was ther just waiting or even making it to go wrong. All the other people in the bus too, what a sad performance.

She did. If it was in another social setting just 2 people (let's say 2 women, 1 older and her and the older lady popped her like that, people would be cheering) (if it was a younger guy who got popped people would feel the sympathy they do for her and would probably cheer)

Actually this is just 3 min of the video so it was probably longer, I heard him saying that she need to step back behind the yellow line too

he did handle it wrong, Bus drivers become easy victims and like postal workers I can understand how bus drivers can go postal, evenmoreso than mail men

These people do have a lot of shit to deal with daily. Still doesn't make it right, only a little bit more understandable.

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Reply #133 posted 10/24/12 11:23am

OldFriends4Sal
e

Tremolina said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

according to the law, what he did may or may not be in lines with what the law says as far as self defense is concerned

..

A court will have to determine if the upper cut was warrented.

Assault

An assault invoves:

  1. An intentional, unlawful threat or "offer" to cause bodily injury to another by force;
  2. Under circumstances which create in the other person a well-founded fear of imminent peril;
  3. Where there exists the apparent present ability to carry out the act if not prevented.

Note that an assault can be completed even if there is no actual contact with the plaintiff, and even if the defendant had no actual ability to carry out the apparent threat. For example, a defendant who points a realistic toy gun at the plaintiff may be liable for assault, even though the defendant was fifty feet away from the plaintiff and had no actual ability to inflict harm from that distance.

Battery

A battery is the willful or intentional touching of a person against that person’s will by another person, or by an object or substance put in motion by that other person. Please note that an offensive touching can constitute a battery even if it does not cause injury, and could not reasonably be expected to cause injury. A defendant who emphatically pokes the plaintiff in the chest with his index finger to emphasize a point may be culpable for battery (although the damages award that results may well be nominal). A defendant who spits on a plaintiff, even though there is little chance that the spitting will cause any injury other than to the plaintiff's dignity, has committed a battery.

Self-Defense

A person who is assaulted may use such reasonable force as may be necessary, or which at the time reasonably appears to be necessary, to protect himself or herself from bodily harm. An act of self-defense must ordinarily be proportionate to the threat. That is, if you believe a person is going to spit on you, depending upon the context it may be reasonable to push the person away, but it would not be reasonable to hit the person with a baseball bat.

A plaintiff may be expected to withdraw from the threat, if possible, before engaging in forcible resistance. However, if the plaintiff is in his own home and the defendant is not a member of the plaintiff's household, a plaintiff will typically not be required to further withdraw from the threat once the plaintiff has retreated to his own home.

Provocation

Words alone, no matter how insulting or provocative, do not justify an assault or battery against the person who utters the words.

http://www.expertlaw.com/...ttery.html

I think it's pretty clear that she assaulted and battered him; completely unlawful and also dangerous behaviour. She could have caused an accident with her foolishness.

He had a right to defend himself, but he didn't use that right proportionally. An upper cut like he gave can be compared to hitting somebody with a baseball bat. You can cause serious injury to somebody with that. If you hit right under the nose you could kill somebody.

In this case the assault and battery the passenger displayed obviously wasn't in the same league, nor did the busdriver have to fear for that. This is proven already by his own foolish and agressive reactions, saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like a man". From a bus driver and/or public servant a better and more reasonable reaction may be expected. Like simply warning her and if she does not listen put her out the bus. Call the law when it gets out of hand.

But he didn't do that. Instead he choose to hit her "like a man". Wrong and excessive.

Conclusion: both should be charged with and convicetd for assault and battery.

Case closed.

right, the definition of Self Defense, he went way over the equalizing of force

1.) I'm still shocked at that upper cut, I mean I just don't rememeber outside of a movie or WWE seeing that before like that

2.) And shocked that she got right back up after that and came back swinging

I don't know if they send bus drivers to Public Servant class, but like a lot of people in jobs that are thankless they come from all different backgrounds.

And how does he put her off the bus? If he touches her she may assault him, or accuse him of assaulting her

True, but she's a woman, and she isn't going to get the same degree he got.

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Reply #134 posted 10/24/12 11:27am

Stymie

If he could not put her off the bus, he should have kept his fucking mouth shut and called the police and have them remove her.

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Reply #135 posted 10/24/12 11:31am

Tremolina

OldFriends4Sale said:

Tremolina said:

I think it's pretty clear that she assaulted and battered him; completely unlawful and also dangerous behaviour. She could have caused an accident with her foolishness.

He had a right to defend himself, but he didn't use that right proportionally. An upper cut like he gave can be compared to hitting somebody with a baseball bat. You can cause serious injury to somebody with that. If you hit right under the nose you could kill somebody.

In this case the assault and battery the passenger displayed obviously wasn't in the same league, nor did the busdriver have to fear for that. This is proven already by his own foolish and agressive reactions, saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like a man". From a bus driver and/or public servant a better and more reasonable reaction may be expected. Like simply warning her and if she does not listen put her out the bus. Call the law when it gets out of hand.

But he didn't do that. Instead he choose to hit her "like a man". Wrong and excessive.

Conclusion: both should be charged with and convicetd for assault and battery.

Case closed.

right, the definition of Self Defense, he went way over the equalizing of force

1.) I'm still shocked at that upper cut, I mean I just don't rememeber outside of a movie or WWE seeing that before like that

2.) And shocked that she got right back up after that and came back swinging

It looks like he didn't hit her full on the chin but more her cheek. If it would have been full on the chin she would have probably passed out.

I don't know if they send bus drivers to Public Servant class, but like a lot of people in jobs that are thankless they come from all different backgrounds.

And how does he put her off the bus? If he touches her she may assault him, or accuse him of assaulting her

True, but she's a woman, and she isn't going to get the same degree he got.

You put her off the bus by simply telling her so. 'Calm and assertive' tho because otherwise the 'bitch'won't listen' wink

If she refuses you call the law.

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Reply #136 posted 10/24/12 11:34am

OldFriends4Sal
e

Tremolina said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

She did. If it was in another social setting just 2 people (let's say 2 women, 1 older and her and the older lady popped her like that, people would be cheering) (if it was a younger guy who got popped people would feel the sympathy they do for her and would probably cheer)

Actually this is just 3 min of the video so it was probably longer, I heard him saying that she need to step back behind the yellow line too

he did handle it wrong, Bus drivers become easy victims and like postal workers I can understand how bus drivers can go postal, evenmoreso than mail men

These people do have a lot of shit to deal with daily. Still doesn't make it right, only a little bit more understandable.

No I'm not saying it makes it right, just that 'she had it coming' Which means you can't just do what you want and not expect anyone to react. I mean I've never been upper cut because I'm not going to be talking to anyone like that, I'm paying my way and obeying the rules.

men still have to 'watch their Ps & Qs' because in most case when dealing with a MF situation he will always be made to be the wrong.

In the video interviewing her, the lady near the end says "But it takes 2 for situations like this..." and the young lady took no responsibility for her actions.

In our society (US speaking) Bad Girls Club and Housewives shows that give license for women to attack men & women and just loose control and get away with it. Because they are women

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Reply #137 posted 10/24/12 11:54am

Tremolina

What about the enticing chants and bad behaviour by the other people in the bus?

Should they all be excused when they were just begging for this situation to get out of hand?

It's obvious that the passenger picked up on that and felt strengthened by it.

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Reply #138 posted 10/24/12 12:01pm

Stymie

Tremolina said:

What about the enticing chants and bad behaviour by the other people in the bus?

Should they all be excused when they were just begging for this situation to get out of hand?

It's obvious that the passenger picked up on that and felt strengthened by it.

Yes, all those people were instigating but ultimately, they get to walk away guilt-free. People love drama.

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Reply #139 posted 10/24/12 12:10pm

Tremolina

Stymie said:

Tremolina said:

What about the enticing chants and bad behaviour by the other people in the bus?

Should they all be excused when they were just begging for this situation to get out of hand?

It's obvious that the passenger picked up on that and felt strengthened by it.

Yes, all those people were instigating but ultimately, they get to walk away guilt-free. People love drama.

Why? instigating isn't legal either.

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Reply #140 posted 10/24/12 12:14pm

Stymie

Tremolina said:

Stymie said:

Yes, all those people were instigating but ultimately, they get to walk away guilt-free. People love drama.

Why? instigating isn't legal either.

Wouldn't it fall under free speech? Plus, so far, no one else has been arrested.

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Reply #141 posted 10/24/12 12:18pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

Tremolina said:

What about the enticing chants and bad behaviour by the other people in the bus?

Should they all be excused when they were just begging for this situation to get out of hand?

It's obvious that the passenger picked up on that and felt strengthened by it.

I don't think there is anything criminal that can be done, socially there are issue of conscious

But some people said nothing others enjoyed it had to be others that were disgusted by it,

in one scene you see a lady get up and go toward them with a black bag, did she try to call the young lady down or just to let the driver know she had to get off at next stop or asap lol

You see some people move from their spot to a space further back, did they sense it was going to get violent...

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Reply #142 posted 10/24/12 12:22pm

Tremolina

Free speech ends when it turns to violence.

Nobody else will be charged because it's too much of a hassle. Too costly, too difficult.

But that means all these people get away with it. And that's not right either.

Especially the guy in the orange jacket. What a jerk.

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Reply #143 posted 10/24/12 12:36pm

Timmy84

OldFriends4Sale said:

Tremolina said:

Again, not right what he did, but she totally had it coming. Cussing him out for 3 minutes, calling him n***er constantly, spitting on him and then either pushing him hard or trying to choke him, in any case physically attacking him also.

That said the guy handled it completely wrong. He should have stopped the bus after a maximum of 3 warnings and tell her to leave. Not acting a fool crying "you spit on me bitch!!", while driving and also saying stupid stuff like "I'm going to whoop your ass" and "you wanna act like a man I'll treat you like ma man"shit. The guy in the orange worker vest moreover should have intervened and tell her to shut it, but it looks like he was ther just waiting or even making it to go wrong. All the other people in the bus too, what a sad performance.

She did. If it was in another social setting just 2 people (let's say 2 women, 1 older and her and the older lady popped her like that, people would be cheering) (if it was a younger guy who got popped people would feel the sympathy they do for her and would probably cheer)

Actually this is just 3 min of the video so it was probably longer, I heard him saying that she need to step back behind the yellow line too

he did handle it wrong, Bus drivers become easy victims and like postal workers I can understand how bus drivers can go postal, evenmoreso than mail men

Yeah. I also recall seeing a video of some thug idiot beating up the bus driver and the driver just took his licks while the idiot was harassing him, insulting him with racial epithets (if I recall correctly; driver was white, the attacker was black) and then hitting him and NO ONE attempted to stop it. It was all caught on camera.

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Reply #144 posted 10/24/12 1:14pm

TD3

avatar

Unfortunately in the US children are taught playground rules and/or street justice are acceptable means to resolve conflicts. Hence the irrational explanations or justification for why this woman got what she deserved. We appear to be puzzled why we have high levels of violence... random acts of violence in the US. confused

I read somewhere the bus drive choose not to press charges against this woman. I would like to believe he regretted how he handle the situation. I'm sure he realizes now how much he may lose: The possibility of jail time, being fired, loosing health care benefits, state pension, severance pay and his CDL, in this economy. Transportation workers make a nice buck and he made have lost it all because he allowed himself to be pulled into some dumb mess. Instead of "acting like a man" he should've tried to act like an adult.

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Reply #145 posted 10/24/12 1:18pm

Stymie

TD3 said:

Unfortunately in the US children are taught playground rules and/or street justice are acceptable means to resolve conflicts. Hence the irrational explanations or justification for why this woman got what she deserved. We appear to be puzzled why we have high levels of violence... random acts of violence in the US. confused

I read somewhere the bus drive choose not to press charges against this woman. I would like to believe he regretted how he handle the situation. I'm sure he realizes now how much he may lose: The possibility of jail time, being fired, loosing health care benefits, state pension, severance pay and his CDL, in this economy. Transportation workers make a nice buck and he made have lost it all because he allowed himself to be pulled into some dumb mess. Instead of "acting like a man" he should've tried to act like an adult.

All this!!!! clapping

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Reply #146 posted 10/24/12 1:28pm

RodeoSchro

Timmy84 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

She did. If it was in another social setting just 2 people (let's say 2 women, 1 older and her and the older lady popped her like that, people would be cheering) (if it was a younger guy who got popped people would feel the sympathy they do for her and would probably cheer)

Actually this is just 3 min of the video so it was probably longer, I heard him saying that she need to step back behind the yellow line too

he did handle it wrong, Bus drivers become easy victims and like postal workers I can understand how bus drivers can go postal, evenmoreso than mail men

Yeah. I also recall seeing a video of some thug idiot beating up the bus driver and the driver just took his licks while the idiot was harassing him, insulting him with racial epithets (if I recall correctly; driver was white, the attacker was black) and then hitting him and NO ONE attempted to stop it. It was all caught on camera.

That was Epic Beard Man!

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Reply #147 posted 10/24/12 1:30pm

Graycap23

Self defense applies 2 all.

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Reply #148 posted 10/24/12 1:33pm

Stymie

Graycap23 said:

Self defense applies 2 all.

Would you be okay if that were your sister, mother, etc., he punched like that?

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Reply #149 posted 10/24/12 1:35pm

Graycap23

Stymie said:

Graycap23 said:

Self defense applies 2 all.

Would you be okay if that were your sister, mother, etc., he punched like that?

Not a single person I know is that ignorant.

[Edited 10/24/12 17:59pm]

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