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PrintableJust a brief followup to this story:
It apparently started when the female didn't pay the fare upon boarding the bus. The driver is 59 years old and claims she spit on his face and grabbed his throat. He was charged with assault, she was charged with disorderly conduct. He can get a maximum 6 months in jail, she can get a maximum of 30 days.
I do agree it should not be implied that all females and young boys are weak. I've seen 12-year-old boys that are over 6 feet tall, and 14-year-old boys that are more than 200 pounds of muscle.
And many, many years ago I was engaged to a young woman who had a strong punch and liked to use it. There were times when she would punch me hard repeatedly (never in the head) while demanding that I hit her back. I never did, and of course she ridiculed me for not having the guts.
One time during an argument I locked her out of our apartment to try and diffuse the situation. She was so strong that she busted through the front door after I had locked the deadbolt, she broke the frame ... and she was not a big girl, about 5'6" 130 lbs. "Never let nasty stalkers disrespect you. They start shit, you finish it. Go down to their level, that's the only way they'll understand. You have to handle things yourself." | |
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No, you're wrong. I never once said that I don't accept it as part of every day life, I know damn well that it is.
I will not, however, ever condone a violent reaction unless it is in self defence of a physical attack.
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SO THEN...in the case of self defense or a physical attack..it is okay for a man to punch a female? By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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It is acceptable to defend yourself from an attacker, regardless of who that attacker is.
Ideally you defend and subdue but yeah, if you're being badly attacked a punch in the face - regardless of gender - may be necessary. | |
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according to Pokeno4Money's update, she didn't pay her fair, which most likely started the arguement. I guess he should have just let her get off without paying
That's easy to say, but I've been in situations like that (just on the phone) and had the freedom to just be able to hang the phone up. She was in his space, standing over him
she spit on him, then put her hands on his throat, maybe he should have just let her off the bus
Call the proper authorities on a bus route, when do they get there?, for the most part he might have to pull over, the other passengers are getting upset, maybe they come after the woman, maybe the start on the guy
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If a woman has a mean punch and she instigated the attack, it's only fair to hit her back with a mean punch. REGARDLESS OF GENDER. Hell some women do it all the time. But men can't hit back in retaliation if a woman clobbers him or wails on his head like a banshee? I don't get that logic at all. | |
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How do you know he didn't call it in? People probably did call 911, and they should have recorded it. Your post seems to put all the blame on him If you won't watch the video you shouldn't come to the conclusions You can tell people are mortified about what is going on and probably have called 911 what if her spitting and attempted choking cause him to cause an accident? immediate danger is not a prerequesite to self defense
Self-DefenseA person who is assaulted may use such reasonable force as may be necessary, or which at the time reasonably appears to be necessary, to protect himself or herself from bodily harm. An act of self-defense must ordinarily be proportionate to the threat. That is, if you believe a person is going to spit on you, depending upon the context it may be reasonable to push the person away, but it would not be reasonable to hit the person with a baseball bat. A plaintiff may be expected to withdraw from the threat, if possible, before engaging in forcible resistance. However, if the plaintiff is in his own home and the defendant is not a member of the plaintiff's household, a plaintiff will typically not be required to further withdraw from the threat once the plaintiff has retreated to his own home. [Edited 10/23/12 12:57pm] | |
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There is another video of her on You tube discussing the incident with a reporter. She is acting like, ‘I don’t understand why he hit me? I can’t believe he hit me?” I’m thinking, “What?!!” She obviously feels it was totally ok to spit on him and try to choke him.
And that place in me still feels a bit more sympathy for her because she is a woman
[Edited 10/23/12 13:03pm] | |
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^ That's why I roll my eyes at anyone who does what she does and then go "but I'M the victim!" Ah SHUT UP! | |
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when I was in the 5th grade there was a girl named Girtrude, she looked like she used to work out had big fists, and when the boys did't 'like her' she would punch in the back of our heads she had to be like 2-3 ft taller than all of is at that time
As this case is pointing out, Gender will make the determining factor | |
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There you go!
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory! |
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No one hardly talks of domestic abuse (that's what it looks like to me) committed against men because of the respected opinion that men are always the dominant ones. It's hard to follow protocol of "not hitting women" when a woman does that and you try to keep the peace. I'll put it like this, if somebody gets with anybody and either party/gender hits the other first, it's either a hit back or just straight leave.
In relation to the bus incident, yeah it'll be easier said than done to tell dude to not do what he did but unless you're in that situation, you can't really say "don't do it". | |
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I mean this is obviously to get attention...lol | |
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Thankfully I haven't been in a situation like that before...
I'm afraid I have to counteract my logic and say that no, I probably wouldn't, just because she's a woman. Somewhere deep inside of me there's this hopelessly romantic gentleman who would bravely take the face-slap and walk away (but only because I know that most of the time I'd probably deserve it
If, however, I am assaulted for no reason and I feel like there really is no other way to make a person stop hitting me/spitting on me I'd probably have to use physical force, regardless of age, body weight or gender... |
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Mind you, though, I would never say that any aggressive reaction is "okay" under any circumstance. I just think that my personal mental strength might not always keep up with my idealistic opinions.
So, to make things clear: do I think that it is okay to hit anyone? No, of course not. And women even less so, just because they are women. They can argue about being "equals" and all that shit, but the fact remains that women are at least equal to men, in the sense they often convey a certain breathtaking elegance and beauty. I know that a woman spitting on and hitting me certainly has absolutely none of that, but she's still a woman which somehow tells me I have to treat her better that I'd treat the same kind of asshole if they were in a man's body. If that makes sense...?
But: am I convinced I will always react the way I would want to (solve the situation without hitting anyone? No, because I have failed in that respect many, many times before. |
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One of my points is what he had to say. In what way was she "acting" like a man? Are there certain things that only "men" can do, and if women do them, should they get knocked out because of it? From what he is saying, he seems more pissed off that a WOMAN would dare act the way she was acting. I think he did want to teach her a lesson, but it didn't seem that the lesson was about respecting peoples space, but more that if you "act like a man" hes going to "treat you like a man." Seems more a point about keeping gender roles in check. "Aren't you even curious? Don't you want to see the dragon behind the door?" | |
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That is so fucked up.I suppose all you "it's never OK for anyone to hit anyone" folks think hockey is the worst sport in the world.
Yes? | |
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I think you're bending things a bit too much. This doesn't have much to do with tree-humping hippie-bullshit. It really depends on the intent and reason.
If a hockey player hammers down an opponent I think that's generally okay. If, however, it is clear that his intent was solely to hurt another human being (with no regards to the sport) it is not okay.
With sports like boxing the border is being pushed up a bit, which is cool with me too. The nature of this sport basically is to hurt the opponent, so in the context of a boxing fight that is okay. If, however, one boxer is on the floor already and the other one is still trying to kick his ass, that's not okay.
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In North America's NHL, the fights are for the specific reason of beating the shit out of the other guy. I'm not talking about hard hits with pads. I'm talking about both players dropping their gloves and punching it out. This happens in pretty much every NHL game.
The refs let it go on until the guys are punched out, or one guy is knocked out. Personally, I think that's ridiculous but pretty much every NHL fan will tell you fighting has to be a part of hockey or players will get hurt. WTF?!?
I just think it's funny that so many Canadians on this thread are so anti-fighting, but they love their hockey and wouldn't change a thing about it - including the fighting!
As to the bolded comment, we have a sport here where that's actually the goal! It's called Mixed Martial Arts, or MMA. Strangely enough, I think there are fewer injuries in MMA than in boxing.
. [Edited 10/23/12 16:01pm] | |
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I'm not a Canadian citizen (yet), but I live here and I've chimed in on this thread, so I'll assume it's OK that I speak to your point.
I TOTALLY support the effort to rid hockey of its ridiculous fighting culture. It's got nothing to do with the actual skill of the sport, and I think it sends ALL sorts of screwed-up messaging about masculinity, appreciating the worth of another person, how to solve conflict, etc.
As for boxing and other martial arts as sport, I'm no huge fan of those either, but even with them it's understood -- or at least should be -- that the goal is momentary physical superiority within certain agreed upon parameters. The minute the event is over, no one has to assume ongoing cycles of uncontrolled violence, reprisals, humiliation, or a laying to waste of their very humanity as a function of the sport. [Edited 10/23/12 16:37pm] Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.” | |
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Maybe it was in response to something she said, because we hear him say he'd put his daughter or granddaughter on her... she did say things about beating his mother and some other thing about beating him. So it could have been a response
Sad thing about this is that men and women still have mixed messages about dealing with women in many espects of society.
here we have a 59 year old who came of age in a different time of dealing with women, a much younger woman who came up in the age of the independant woman
It could be the age factor along with that, that cant be left out. I had a great aunt who if she was talked to like that would have done the same just because talking to elders like that was never acceptible
Have you ever seen 'the Holiday' some call it a male friendly chick flick
there is a scene where Cameron Diaz after finding out her boyfriend cheated on her and puts him out come outside and punches him in the face, hes shocked grabbing his nose and she punches him again knocking him down.
That is a very acceptable image in tv shows and film it "girl power" its not considered violence
But if a man even slaps a woman for whatever reason it violence toward women
At some point in the change of gender identities and views there has to be a common ground
Our societies all have very different gender issues of course. But dealing with the states there are a lot of uneven grounds and un certain territory both genders are on
Do I have to hold the door for every women coming thru, ...all these things that seem little are cornerstones to the gender issues
When I was younger and worked at a grocery store, all the guys were used to work outside:rain snow heat day or night while also having to run register, the girls/women did not, yet we got paid the same. Are the young mens lives more expendible, seen as being tough enough to deal with the elements, keeping the weaker sex inside safe and warm...
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I don't condone hitting women, but she deserved it. Everyone has their breaking point. الحيوان النادلة ((((|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|)))) ...AND THAT'S THE WAY THE "TITTY" MILKS IT!
My Albums: https://zillzmp.bandcamp.com/music My Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/zillz82 | |
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That video is so hard to watch
But I agree with what you said. She was totally out of line for behaving the way she did, but his reaction was so vicious
What do people don't call the police in instances like this? I can't hear what's going on before the punch but I can almost assure that he was also taunting her. He decided to punch her to save face in front of the other people instead of doing the right thing by calling the police. Now we also know what kind of person he is. “The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.” | |
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Looking at the clip, it doesn't even seem real. Second, why not put her off the bus or call the cops instead? Dumbassedness all around. | |
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Is it ever okay for a man to punch a female? I'm gonna give the obvious answer first. Is it okay for a man to do it just because he is a man and feels like he can? 'No.' In self defense? In a situation like this while yes she was being loud and obnoxious which I feel like made many of you come to a conclusion about her personality/ lifestyle by the way I'd say no. All she did was lunge at him, clawing and what not. She grabbed him around the throat for half a second and that was uncalled for and it was especially out of line for her to spit on him.
From what I can tell he had a bad attitude from the beginning and she reacted to it. The way the both of them chose to react to the situation and the way the tension and all the whooping by the other passengers which escalated the situation...both of them were adults and they are both at fault. I understand that he was pissed that she came up there and inevitably started raising hell and then had the nerve to spit on him but the way he hit her; from his body language when he got up out of the seat to the way he pulled his arm way back and struck with all his anger showed that he didn't mean to make her back down but he wanted to knock her the ____ out. To me that was beyond self defense. Self defense would have been him choosing to push her off the bus or threatning to call the police if she didn't stop causing a public disturbence. Then he goes on to say after some lady tells him "She's a woman!" that he didn't care and if she wanted to 'act like a man' he would treat her like one. That was pure aggression. Not saying that it wasn't provoked.
Now like a year or two ago when I was a freshman one morning there was a confrentation on my school bus between the bus driver (who was a real butt) and a student. Nobody liked the bus driver and there had been a lot of tension lately over the fact that he would close the door on people in the morning even if they were right at the doors and drive off. And he was rude. One girl decided to get her mom to talk to him about it so that morning the girl and her Mom were walking around the front of the bus. The girl got on but our bus driver closed the door immediately and started to drive off even though her mom was still basically in front of the bus. The girl went off screaming at him, angry and upset that he had almost run over her mom. She was slapping the windows and then she went to the drivers seat and pushed him. Hard. That was stupid because he could have lost control of the bus and we all could have crashed. So would it have been cool for a middle aged man to punch this 15/16 year old girl in the face because she 'assaulted' him first?
I'll let you guys answer that if you want but I'll tell you what he did. He held up his arm to kind of block himself if she decided to hit him. She didn't. Then he stopped the bus and the police was called and she ended up getting taken off the bus. It was a mess b/c we sat there for nearly 2 hours while the police were doing what they did. I feel like thats what they should have done here.
(P.S: Sorry for such a looong post. I know most of ya'll aren't gonna read it. ~ You're a desire, I get higher every time I speak your name ~ | |
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)Skylightt said: Is it ever okay for a man to punch a female? I'm gonna give the obvious answer first. Is it okay for a man to do it just because he is a man and feels like he can? 'No.' In self defense? In a situation like this while yes she was being loud and obnoxious which I feel like made many of you come to a conclusion about her personality/ lifestyle by the way I'd say no. All she did was lunge at him, clawing and what not. She grabbed him around the throat for half a second and that was uncalled for and it was especially out of line for her to spit on him.
From what I can tell he had a bad attitude from the beginning and she reacted to it. The way the both of them chose to react to the situation and the way the tension and all the whooping by the other passengers which escalated the situation...both of them were adults and they are both at fault. I understand that he was pissed that she came up there and inevitably started raising hell and then had the nerve to spit on him but the way he hit her; from his body language when he got up out of the seat to the way he pulled his arm way back and struck with all his anger showed that he didn't mean to make her back down but he wanted to knock her the ____ out. To me that was beyond self defense. Self defense would have been him choosing to push her off the bus or threatning to call the police if she didn't stop causing a public disturbence. Then he goes on to say after some lady tells him "She's a woman!" that he didn't care and if she wanted to 'act like a man' he would treat her like one. That was pure aggression. Not saying that it wasn't provoked.
Now like a year or two ago when I was a freshman one morning there was a confrentation on my school bus between the bus driver (who was a real butt) and a student. Nobody liked the bus driver and there had been a lot of tension lately over the fact that he would close the door on people in the morning even if they were right at the doors and drive off. And he was rude. One girl decided to get her mom to talk to him about it so that morning the girl and her Mom were walking around the front of the bus. The girl got on but our bus driver closed the door immediately and started to drive off even though her mom was still basically in front of the bus. The girl went off screaming at him, angry and upset that he had almost run over her mom. She was slapping the windows and then she went to the drivers seat and pushed him. Hard. That was stupid because he could have lost control of the bus and we all could have crashed. So would it have been cool for a middle aged man to punch this 15/16 year old girl in the face because she 'assaulted' him first?
I'll let you guys answer that if you want but I'll tell you what he did. He held up his arm to kind of block himself if she decided to hit him. She didn't. Then he stopped the bus and the police was called and she ended up getting taken off the bus. It was a mess b/c we sat there for nearly 2 hours while the police were doing what they did. I feel like thats what they should have done here.
(P.S: Sorry for such a looong post. I know most of ya'll aren't gonna read it. | |
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Usually not, but if you act, dress, and think like one, and willing to go for the challenge, why not. | |
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I've watched the tape so I could speak in specifics, disturbing.
Pulling broad legal definitions off the World Wide Web aren't one and the same as understanding the circumstances, the unique set of factors of an individual case and how the law applies.
I'm certain Cleveland Regional Transit Authority have guidelines, a protocol in place for their employees to follow when dealing with emergencies, including abusive, and unruly passengers. I'm certain Cleveland Regional Transit trained their drivers not to fight nor engage in verbal altercations with passengers, but are advised if all possible call the police. I'll explain why later.
The Shaker Heights prosecutor has charged both with misdemeanors; the bus driver has been charged with assault and his passenger has been charged with disorderly conduct. Needless to say the bus driver has the most to lose here. (IMO) If the case goes forward, whether he is found guilty or innocent of the charge(s), he possibly — in all likelihood — will be fired.
As I've repeated again and again, the bus driver erred when he engaged this women in hurling insults. When you make claims of self-defense, it's important to know you'll have to prove the force you used was in proportion to the force you were threatened with. It should be understood, you must also prove you didn't escalated the matter and you fought back with the same means as you where attacked. I saw another video of the altercation and those two engaged in about 4/5 minutes of cussing each other out before she lunged at him and he hit her. Again, he had ample time to call law enforcement. Another problem with his claims of self defense, his own words
“I don’t care. You wanna be a man, I’ll treat you like a man.”
He retaliated not to remove a potential danger from the bus, but simply to prove a point: If you want to act violently — as only men can- you will be punched in the face like a man and hard.
One more thing: The bus driver didn't file a report nor did he inform his superiors of the events of that day. If read everything correctly Cleveland Transit was only made aware of those events after the video went viral. Depending on the circumstances, charges of assault can also involve civil tort. Since the bus driver was on the watch working for his employer, the City of Cleveland could be held liable for his actions. In legal ease this is called respondeat superior — an employer is responsible for the actions of employees performed within the course of their employment.
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[Edited 10/23/12 19:39pm] [Edited 10/23/12 19:40pm] | |
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[Edited 10/24/12 9:21am] | |
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