I've just about exhausted my "photoshop clone," PhotoImpact, with it's psuedo-3d features--and I'm getting tired of having to create the 3d illusion all by hand--I'm ready to go to the next level.

I need something that lets me easily manipulate shapes, stick them together, apply textures to selected surfaces, rotate, zoom, light, all that kind of thing, without going to totally bonkers with the wireframe crap, thousands of dollars, and millions of megabytes.

I've tried Ulead Cool3D--and it's really not bad for starters, nice realtime view, but it has waaay too much emphasis on goofy animation effects...dunno...

Any experienced artists out there have a suggestion?

Thx in advance guys.

3D modelling packages / animation packages / renderers...

Well naturally enough, it has to be Maya or 3ds max. Of course these aren't cheap, and I don't condone piracy or anything. Oh no. However you can get the Maya personal learning edition for free (it waterstamps your images though, I think).

There are other packages such as Milkbone 3D (might be Linux only...).

Really, it has to be Max or Maya

The only thing I can think of, and it's been a while since I've used it, is Adobe Dimensions. I know you can do all of the things you mentioned with it. I used it years ago, and I'm sure it's been WAY upgraded since then, but I remember the wire-frame crap driving me nuts as well. I just didn't have the patience to learn it I guess. I think the most recent is Adobe Dimensions 3. I keep meaning to get it and try it out, but so far I haven't had an urgent need for a 3-D program.

Thx for the input!

Let me add one more stipulation--don't know if any of the tools do this:

The ability for the program to intuitively rotate and resize objects automatically to "fit" each other, say, if you wanted to connect prebuilt pieces into a complex object; maybe just enough input would be required to hint to the program how the pieces might fit together, but sparing the user having to fine-tune an object to death just to get it to fit correctly against another object. Seems like mindless work a computer would enjoy doing.

Would 3ds Max do this? How expensive is expensive?

Well somebody's got to do that mindless work, just let it not be me! Or you for that matter.

teller said:

If I understand you correctly, yes certainly, Max will do this for you. Max is a very high-end package used by 3D modellers and artists in the video games and animation areas... you'd be amazed at what you can do with it (as a coder I only ever scratch the surface).

It is expensive, probably starting at around $1500 which is why usually you either (a) get an employer to pay for it or (b) steal it from a dodgy warez site. Which of course the Org does not condone *cough*

Well shit...I'll have to give it a try!

Um...I'm sure I would never *cough* do anything illegal...

I use Bryce 4 and 5 to make my 3d stuff, its alittle tricky but if you use some creativity you cam make many cool peices. check out my work at
http://community.webshots...prince1237

violet said:

Hmmm...nice for landscapes, eh?

WOW...I just watched the 3ds Max demo...Jesus Christ! That's a fucking high-end tool!

I am somewhat intimidated just now...steep learning curve...

teller said:

It is ... I've been using it for years, since the very first version and I am sure there's loads of shit I don't know about it. Version 5 is pretty decent though, vastly improved texture mapping tools etc. I'm a coder so I mainly use it for simple things, writing exporters, making simple models, skeletons, IK chains etc.

The learning curve is a bitch, but the tutorials that come with it are very good. Unfortunately though because it is so high-end, it requires a certain type of artist to use it well... basically an artist with lots of techy skills and a good understanding of computer graphics.

Do you really need 3D though? You can always fake some nice 3D-like shading yourself...

ian said:

I dunno...I've been faking 3D for quite a while now...I suppose the areas where I'm really bothered are landscaping and texture mapping. I've pushed PhotoImpact to it's limits with textures, bumps, and reflections, and it only has the most basic of shapes with no real ability to rotate so I'm always faking shit out...I'm to the point where I need some semblance of real rendering just to make less work for me. At the same time, I don't want to get all CGI-looking as so much 3D art seems to be--it's often a dead giveaway that you're looking at more tool than art. I most want some true effects, not entire Pixar universe.

3D geometry and mathematics don't scare me at all, but I'm not making Quake or Monsters Inc. here, I'm just trying to make really cute scenes with occasional embellishment. Ulead Cool 3D seems like just enough to make some textured and light shapes that I can place in my scenes...but it's a bit weak in terms of work-flow--I've found myself tweaking the textures to make them fit the limitations of the texture mapping tools--not fun, but not bad for $50 either.

Try Swift3D by Electric Rain. Its more geared towards flash but you can get some reasonably high quality images from it as well.

For 3D Landscapes, check out Terragen. Its relatively cheap and produces some cool results.

Also, if you have Adobe Illustrator, theres Kai's Vector Effects 1.5 which has a 3d filter in it. I think this product is no longer for sale but you should be able to find it on Kazaa.

If you want a completely 3D scene then you need to step up to the big guns like 3d Studio Max or Maya. There are a couple open source or cheaper programs such as Blender, but they're a nightmare to use.

I'd recommend just using something like Swift3D and a vector based illustration program to assemble the basic 3D shapes, then just import them into photoshop and do the more painterly editing.

Thx!

you may find Bryce useful too

Teller!

You should use 3D studio Max! I think you would love it. I have been using it for about a year now and although it is a steep learning curve it is worth the time and effort!

3D Max

I have a link Where you can order A free 30 day trial C.D. It may be worth it just to see how you get on with Max.

I will post it!

Thank U, Lleena, for the link...

wellbeyond said:

Are you a Maxer Wellbeyond!?

Lleena said:

Nope...not yet, anyway...lol 8)

Lleena said:

Wow...another 3DsMax endorsement...I was very impressed by it's power--watched the demo and all--but it seemed scary! However, it might just be the trick...they don't make a "lite" version do they?

teller said:

Screw "lite" version, Teller...lol..just go for the whole enchilada... 8)

wellbeyond said:

Well...the feature set really is overkill for my purposes...sigh...but maybe you're right...why limit oneself...

teller said:

lol! No Teller! there are plenty of resources/tutorials on line to help with almost anything you want to create. Order the C.D. Let me know what you think! You too Wellbeyond! I wanna see your first Max creation posted at the Org. You should see mine lol !! I am not showing that to anyone!


3D edit!
[This message was edited Wed Mar 5 13:06:01 PST 2003 by Lleena]

Ok...wait a minute...this shit is $3,500!

Lleena said:

Yer on!...lol (I mean that, too...)

teller said:

You can get it for less!

Lleena said:

I can?

wellbeyond said:

Yer on!...lol (I mean that, too...)[/quote]

Ok, where do I order the free 30-day demo??...(30 days is all I'll need to whup some 3D ass, I figger...)