^ Well it's not exactly hard if you're a guy who relies on a hard fist and fast legs like Ali. But then again, why did he agree to have his legs busted by that Japanese wrestler (or whatever)? You know what I mean?

he was better

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

Hell if we're gonna go on greatest athletes, Bruce Lee is a better athlete lol

I don't think it's that easy. Bruce Lee was quoted as saying Muhammed Ali would kick his ass Speed and agility is one thing, size and strength another. Endurance is another. A marathon runner doesn't do flips, but they are also phenomenal athletes.

Besides, boxing and martial arts are different sports. You wouldn't have someone play football against someone playing basketball. Or have a runner race a swimmer.

Exactly................

JoeTyler said:

he was better

I heard that Paul Ryan sparred both of them at the same time, and knocked them both out with the same punch.

^^LOL @ Apollo

Obviously "the greatest" athlete is pretty hard to determine when you're talking about different sports. Wayne Gretzky was called "The Great One" and in hockey, he was. Could he shoot hoops? No idea.

For some reason that escapes me, I was thinking about this boxer vs. martial arts champion deal the other day.

Most people say the martial arts guy would beat the boxer, but I think they say that because they perceive the martial arts guy as being way faster. I used to think that too, but after watching some boxing I don't think that's the case at all.

I think it was Floyd Mayweather talking about UFC, and he said that as long as they were both on their feet, he'd kill any UFC fighter alive. But if they went to the ground, Money May said he'd be a dead man.

NDRU said:

Timmy84 said:

Hell if we're gonna go on greatest athletes, Bruce Lee is a better athlete lol

I don't think it's that easy. Bruce Lee was quoted as saying Muhammed Ali would kick his ass Speed and agility is one thing, size and strength another. Endurance is another. A marathon runner doesn't do flips, but they are also phenomenal athletes.

Besides, boxing and martial arts are different sports. You wouldn't have someone play football against someone playing basketball. Or have a runner race a swimmer.

ah, but man, you said this:

"I totally disagree. Boxing takes strength, speed, instinct, strategy, toughness...and because it's an individual sport, you have to do it all well!

it's pure athleticism. Maybe the ultimate sport, IMO."

and Lee probably said that out of courtesy, admiration or during those rare moments when celebrities tone their ego down; Ali just COULDN'T beat Lee's ass, hell, even VanDamme in his 80s heyday would have killed Ali...

[Edited 10/1/12 11:35am]

JoeTyler said:

NDRU said:

I don't think it's that easy. Bruce Lee was quoted as saying Muhammed Ali would kick his ass Speed and agility is one thing, size and strength another. Endurance is another. A marathon runner doesn't do flips, but they are also phenomenal athletes.

Besides, boxing and martial arts are different sports. You wouldn't have someone play football against someone playing basketball. Or have a runner race a swimmer.

ah, but man, you said this:

"I totally disagree. Boxing takes strength, speed, instinct, strategy, toughness...and because it's an individual sport, you have to do it all well!

it's pure athleticism. Maybe the ultimate sport, IMO."

and Lee probably said that out of courtesy, admiration or during those rare moments when celebrities tone their ego down; Ali just COULDN'T beat Lee's ass, hell, even VanDamme in his 80s heyday would have killed Ali...

[Edited 10/1/12 11:35am]

maybe, and Bruce Lee was an amazing athlete AND personality too, but he said it about the size of Ali's fists, specifically

After what you said about Gretzky, then why can it be that simple?

Why not just have it as:

Ali - greatest boxer of all time

Gretzky - greatest hockey player of all time

Jordan - greatest basketball player of all time

Babe - greatest baseball player of all time

And so on and so on. When they call either of these guys just "The Greatest" or "G.O.A.T." or whatever, it kinda derails their own legacies in what they really did.

I could argue though that if Ali was the greatest of all time in ANYTHING, it would've been as a pitchman, as one of the few that successfully blend sports with entertainment so well he transcended it and as a manipulator.

As Mike Tyson once said, "in order to be the greatest fighter in the world, you have to be the greatest liar in the world".

And judging his entire career until 1981, no one manipulated the media much to his advantage as Muhammad Ali. And in many ways he was also manipulated: by the Black Muslims, who basically made him their village idiot; by his trainers Angelo Dundee and Bundini Brown, who kept feeding his ego; by his manager Herbert Muhammad, who was the person who told Ali "get up n****r" when Ali wanted to quit the third Frazier fight; even by his wife Lonnie now.

And also, why are they trotting Ali out like they did Joe Louis? I'm quite disturbed by it.

[Edited 10/1/12 11:43am]

JoeTyler said:

NDRU said:

I don't think it's that easy. Bruce Lee was quoted as saying Muhammed Ali would kick his ass Speed and agility is one thing, size and strength another. Endurance is another. A marathon runner doesn't do flips, but they are also phenomenal athletes.

Besides, boxing and martial arts are different sports. You wouldn't have someone play football against someone playing basketball. Or have a runner race a swimmer.

ah, but man, you said this:

"I totally disagree. Boxing takes strength, speed, instinct, strategy, toughness...and because it's an individual sport, you have to do it all well!

it's pure athleticism. Maybe the ultimate sport, IMO."

and Lee probably said that out of courtesy, admiration or during those rare moments when celebrities tone their ego down; Ali just COULDN'T beat Lee's ass, hell, even VanDamme in his 80s heyday would have killed Ali...

[Edited 10/1/12 11:35am]

Ali would have a problem telling Bruce to slow the fuck down. Remember he thought he was the quickest!

RodeoSchro said:

For some reason that escapes me, I was thinking about this boxer vs. martial arts champion deal the other day.

Most people say the martial arts guy would beat the boxer, but I think they say that because they perceive the martial arts guy as being way faster. I used to think that too, but after watching some boxing I don't think that's the case at all.

I think it was Floyd Mayweather talking about UFC, and he said that as long as they were both on their feet, he'd kill any UFC fighter alive. But if they went to the ground, Money May said he'd be a dead man.

not only because they're WAY faster, but also because a martial arts expert could defeat/kill you in so MANY different ways

truly is like comparing a fencer against Yoda or Darth Maul, really

I don't care what anyone says, when it comes to talking on the radio there is no way anyone with a working mind could describe Mark Levin as "The Great One".

I keep hoping the ghost of Jackie Gleason will come down and smack his pipsqueak ass for stealing that nickname.

RodeoSchro said:

For some reason that escapes me, I was thinking about this boxer vs. martial arts champion deal the other day.

Most people say the martial arts guy would beat the boxer, but I think they say that because they perceive the martial arts guy as being way faster. I used to think that too, but after watching some boxing I don't think that's the case at all.

I think it was Floyd Mayweather talking about UFC, and he said that as long as they were both on their feet, he'd kill any UFC fighter alive. But if they went to the ground, Money May said he'd be a dead man.

If any boxer's even thinking about fighting with people who fight with their feet, look no further than the Ali fight with Inoji or whatever his name was and they won't entertain it anymore. Boxing and ultimate fighting is different too. I remember when Mike Tyson said he was gonna fight one of the MMA or UFC dudes but that was just hype. Dude who wanted to fight Mike kept looking for him after Mike said he wanted to fight him but according to witnesses, Mike bolted before this could happen. Mike, like Ali before him, was all talk.

JoeTyler said:

RodeoSchro said:

For some reason that escapes me, I was thinking about this boxer vs. martial arts champion deal the other day.

Most people say the martial arts guy would beat the boxer, but I think they say that because they perceive the martial arts guy as being way faster. I used to think that too, but after watching some boxing I don't think that's the case at all.

I think it was Floyd Mayweather talking about UFC, and he said that as long as they were both on their feet, he'd kill any UFC fighter alive. But if they went to the ground, Money May said he'd be a dead man.

not only because they're WAY faster, but also because a martial arts expert could defeat/kill you in so MANY different ways

truly is like comparing a fencer against Yoda or Darth Maul, really

I really don't think a martial arts guy is faster than a world champion boxer. Certainly not a boxer in the same weight class. I'll bet you Manny Pacquio is as fast as any martial arts guy.

Boxers I've known - admittedly, really only one - said a champion boxer would brutalize a champion martial arts guy.

RodeoSchro said:

JoeTyler said:

not only because they're WAY faster, but also because a martial arts expert could defeat/kill you in so MANY different ways

truly is like comparing a fencer against Yoda or Darth Maul, really

I really don't think a martial arts guy is faster than a world champion boxer. Certainly not a boxer in the same weight class. I'll bet you Manny Pacquio is as fast as any martial arts guy.

Boxers I've known - admittedly, really only one - said a champion boxer would brutalize a champion martial arts guy.

I'm gonna admit this: a direct hit to the jaw by a boxer could defeat ANY martial arts champion, that's completely true

but the problem is: make sure the martial arts champion doesn't break your knee, your ribs or or your neck while you're trying to hit him with your big gloved fist

RodeoSchro said:

JoeTyler said:

not only because they're WAY faster, but also because a martial arts expert could defeat/kill you in so MANY different ways

truly is like comparing a fencer against Yoda or Darth Maul, really

I really don't think a martial arts guy is faster than a world champion boxer. Certainly not a boxer in the same weight class. I'll bet you Manny Pacquio is as fast as any martial arts guy.

Boxers I've known - admittedly, really only one - said a champion boxer would brutalize a champion martial arts guy.

They could if they were skilled in martial arts themselves... it's a strange comparison. One just boxes and has ways of doing it - either southpaw (or completely unorthodox like Ali and both Sugar Rays) or orthodox and another basically has way they can pin you down - karate, jujitsu, judo, kung fu, tae kwon do, etc. If you bring up someone like, say, Ali or whatever, in the immortal words of James Brown, he didn't know karate, but he knew karazze-ah. Ali was too bulky to fight a martial arts opponent. He might've had a chance in the '60s but who knows if he would've outsmarted a martial arts opponent then. We wouldn't know because neither Ali or anyone in his camp would entertain it.

JoeTyler said:

RodeoSchro said:

I really don't think a martial arts guy is faster than a world champion boxer. Certainly not a boxer in the same weight class. I'll bet you Manny Pacquio is as fast as any martial arts guy.

Boxers I've known - admittedly, really only one - said a champion boxer would brutalize a champion martial arts guy.

I'm gonna admit this: a direct hit to the jaw by a boxer could defeat ANY martial arts champion, that's completely true

but the problem is: make sure the martial arts champion doesn't break your knee, your ribs or or your neck while you're trying to hit him with your big gloved fist

this thread is a winner

JoeTyler said:

RodeoSchro said:

I really don't think a martial arts guy is faster than a world champion boxer. Certainly not a boxer in the same weight class. I'll bet you Manny Pacquio is as fast as any martial arts guy.

Boxers I've known - admittedly, really only one - said a champion boxer would brutalize a champion martial arts guy.

I'm gonna admit this: a direct hit to the jaw by a boxer could defeat ANY martial arts champion, that's completely true

but the problem is: make sure the martial arts champion doesn't break your knee, your ribs or or your neck while you're trying to hit him with your big gloved fist

Why does the boxer have to wear gloves while the MMA guy gets to kick knees?

JoeTyler said:

this thread is a winner

Just wanted the opinion of the Org about Ali.

I feel this may be a long one though if the folks who posted in here came back...

NDRU said:

JoeTyler said:

I'm gonna admit this: a direct hit to the jaw by a boxer could defeat ANY martial arts champion, that's completely true

but the problem is: make sure the martial arts champion doesn't break your knee, your ribs or or your neck while you're trying to hit him with your big gloved fist

Why does the boxer have to wear gloves while the MMA guy gets to kick knees?

Then it wouldn't be a boxing match, he would've had to join the MMA.

NDRU said:

JoeTyler said:

I'm gonna admit this: a direct hit to the jaw by a boxer could defeat ANY martial arts champion, that's completely true

but the problem is: make sure the martial arts champion doesn't break your knee, your ribs or or your neck while you're trying to hit him with your big gloved fist

Why does the boxer have to wear gloves while the MMA guy gets to kick knees?

because the boxer only uses his legs to run, LOL

call it poetic justice

Timmy84 said:

NDRU said:

Why does the boxer have to wear gloves while the MMA guy gets to kick knees?

Then it wouldn't be a boxing match, he would've had to join the MMA.

LOL

Yeah, and really technically, having a boxer fight a MMA fighter would be a mismatch especially if the RULES were the boxer should remain what he is - a boxer and not do what the MMA fighter is doing. That's why you don't see boxers doing it. Wrestlers are more fit to do it because they pin down their opponents too.

Speaking of boxers being wrestlers, a moment of silence for Joe Louis...

this thread is pure beer & pretzels stuff, all high-five jumps, muscled guys, sweat and blood

5 stars thread

uh ladies? you can join the thread as well

Rocky Balboa kicked the shit out of Hulk Hogan, so there's that.

Thinking about it, we missed a perfect opportunity to answer this question in the "Rocky" series. Rocky fought everyone but a martial arts guy.

RodeoSchro said:

Rocky Balboa kicked the shit out of Hulk Hogan, so there's that.

Thinking about it, we missed a perfect opportunity to answer this question in the "Rocky" series. Rocky fought everyone but a martial arts guy.

But that was HOLLYWOOD. You forget that?

RodeoSchro said:

Rocky Balboa kicked the shit out of Hulk Hogan, so there's that.

Thinking about it, we missed a perfect opportunity to answer this question in the "Rocky" series. Rocky fought everyone but a martial arts guy.

incorrect: it was a draw, and Rocky cheated

if Jet Li nearly killed Martin Riggs (he cheated), then you can bet he would have killed Rocky as well

Floyd Mayweather was about the same height as Rocky Balboa but he had to be picked up to hit the Big Show.

JoeTyler said:

RodeoSchro said:

Rocky Balboa kicked the shit out of Hulk Hogan, so there's that.

Thinking about it, we missed a perfect opportunity to answer this question in the "Rocky" series. Rocky fought everyone but a martial arts guy.

incorrect: it was a draw, and Rocky cheated

if Jet Li nearly killed Martin Riggs (he cheated), then you can bet he would have killed Rocky as well

That was a real bizarre scene by the way... if it had been a serious fight, Sly wouldn't have stood a chance and everyone knows this!