Lammastide said:

ZombieKitten said:

You have stumbled upon an interesting point, although it has nothing to do with pregnancy. Why do people smile in a photograph? Even if they aren't particularly happy at all, smiling when the photographer says cheese is almost involuntary.

People in the olden days never did. My grandma's wedding photo from the 20s looks positively morose. Was it once the world wars were over that people relaxed? Was it once they realised the camera couldn't steal your soul? Smiling wasnt always a friendly gesture - other primates bare their teeth to appear threatening when afraid, scientists suggest we used to do that too. Some of us still smile or laugh nervously when we aren't comfortable.

My point is, and I don't agree with you too much on this topic, is that she might not be "happy" at all since a smile in a photo is generally not genuine.

This post is the only redeeming thing about this thread.

Zombie is like walking sunshine for Org threads.

Save that shit for Art 101

ZombieKitten said:

You have stumbled upon an interesting point, although it has nothing to do with pregnancy. Why do people smile in a photograph? Even if they aren't particularly happy at all, smiling when the photographer says cheese is almost involuntary. People in the olden days never did. My grandma's wedding photo from the 20s looks positively morose. Was it once the world wars were over that people relaxed? Was it once they realised the camera couldn't steal your soul? Smiling wasnt always a friendly gesture - other primates bare their teeth to appear threatening when afraid, scientists suggest we used to do that too. Some of us still smile or laugh nervously when we aren't comfortable. My point is, and I don't agree with you too much on this topic, is that she might not be "happy" at all since a smile in a photo is generally not genuine.

At one time, people didn't smile in photographs because they would have to hold a certain pose for a long period of time in order for the photograph to develop. Have you ever tried to hold a certain pose, a certain smile, for a great length of time? It begins to get painful, your cheeks hurt, and you begin to become unhappy about having to hold the same pose. So back then, they didn't smile. Today, pictures are automatically processed, instantaneously, so that one doesn't have to hold the same pose for a long period of time, and can smile in the picture.

But I get what you are saying about it being almost automatic. I always look around the eyes, to see if the eyes are smiling. You can't fake that twinkle in the eyes if the smile is genuine. Also, there are other ways to detect a fake smile. Books on reading body language often give a very detailed account of how to tell if a smile is genuine or fake.

I will say that I was EXTREMELY happy when I was pregnant. It wasn't because it was what society dictated or that it was expected of me, as a female, to have children. It was because from the moment I realized I had a life growing in my womb, I fell in love with that life. I have 3 beautiful children whom I absolutely adore and love and am so proud of each of them and ecstatic that they are in my life.

I once told my middle son (11 years old) how happy I was to have him as a son, and he said, "how cool was it that I chose you and daddy to be my parents?" I thought, how profound to think that perhaps he was here because he chose to be here, and had chose his father and I to be the ones to give him life.

I know you think pregnancy is terrible and awful and the whole idea of it bothers you. But for me, it was the most beautiful and amazing experience of my life, feeling that life grow and move within me, and then bringing this beautiful and precious little soul into the world. It was the greatest humbling experience of my entire life.

flyorra said:

MacDaddy said:

Seriously, again?

Was the other thread not enough?

Cheer up girl, it ain't all that bad.

Typo edit

[Edited 8/4/12 8:28am]

lol. i just think i have something imprtant to say that is all.

I think you bring up some valid things, but let's be real here, you're probably wasting your time on them with this.

If you think about it, most people aren't really able to put their egos aside and take a good hard look at themselves and what they do and the motives behind why they do what they do. Which is why most of the responses are personal attacks or patronizing, heavy-handed lectures. You shouldn't expect any more from them than what you're getting and really I'd drop it because I'm sure after awhile, the ones that are the most offended will take it to mods and convince them you're a troll and have you banned or something.

As far as my own personal choices - I absolutely admit that I do want to have kids. But I'm also honest enough to admit that really the world doesn't need more people in it, and that to some extent if I do wind up bringing kids onto the planet there's nothing altruistic or selfless about it because I'd be intentionally choosing to bring beings into a world that I know will inevitably cause them a lot of pain in one way or another.

Really when people choose to have kids, they do it because it's something THEY want; or, feel like they HAVE to do or SHOULD do because of what society dictates. Pick which one applies to you but no matter what anyone says, it's an inherently selfish act, period.

ok ok. i get the message, but sometimes i think we need to talk about this sort of thing instead of acting like pretty much doesnt happen.

Analyst said:

flyorra said:

lol. i just think i have something imprtant to say that is all.

I think you bring up some valid things, but let's be real here, you're probably wasting your time on them with this.

If you think about it, most people aren't really able to put their egos aside and take a good hard look at themselves and what they do and the motives behind why they do what they do. Which is why most of the responses are personal attacks or patronizing, heavy-handed lectures. You shouldn't expect any more from them than what you're getting and really I'd drop it because I'm sure after awhile, the ones that are the most offended will take it to mods and convince them you're a troll and have you banned or something.

As far as my own personal choices - I absolutely admit that I do want to have kids. But I'm also honest enough to admit that really the world doesn't need more people in it, and that to some extent if I do wind up bringing kids onto the planet there's nothing altruistic or selfless about it because I'd be intentionally choosing to bring beings into a world that I know will inevitably cause them a lot of pain in one way or another.

Really when people choose to have kids, they do it because it's something THEY want; or, feel like they HAVE to do or SHOULD do because of what society dictates. Pick which one applies to you but no matter what anyone says, it's an inherently selfish act, period.

Interesting...

but I beg to differ.

You see IMHO PREGNANCY is not a selfish act.... MARRIAGE is because marriage is a done for status in society. Pregnancy is a product of most marriages. But trust me... if you get pregnant

for ANY reason outside out marriage pregnancy is then frowned upon greatly. The woman is seen as a pariah and shunned or talked about as if she made no plan or put no thought to bringing a new life into her world. The truth is far from that, any woman stands to lose everything and with great risk to her standing in society, her education, her lifestyle... never takes on aa decision of such magnitude lightly.

Having a child is a choice, and not a thoughtless one or one done on a whim (unless a child is mother to be is a child herself) and to say so is presumptive and insulting.

I guess we all need to find a way to believe what we believe in order to justify our own bullshit we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel we are better than someone else at the end of the day. We are a sad society as a whole.

I am not stating that to disparage you because I think you are being thoughtful and trying to see a point that I think makes no sense since I am a living contradiction of the opinion you expressed here.

You see I am a single mother of 3 and basically one of those social deviants, and folks think I should feel shame for my "carelessness".

I had my children because I didn't want to kill them. I got pregnant for different reasons each time. I am proud I sacrificed all that I was and lost much, but made something new in the struggle. I love my kids, I was whole before them, but now am a better human being because of what they teach me daily. I thank them for that in many ways and as often as possible.

I should also state that the "elephant in the room" is not stating how selfish one is for getting pregnant, but the elephant in the room really is how one should not allow their own pain in the reality of being barren affect them in a way that they can not find a way to not be irritated by others who become pregnant. Yeah, I said it.

That is the real issue in my opinion... and here's another issue...

It is easy to judge others who are not in your shoes, and knock their decisions. Easy to separate yourself from others in order to throw judgement on them and talk as if they are wrong.

Yeah, I said that too.

I know for a fact that each and every last woman I know who CHOOSE not to have children, made that decision because they ARE selfish. They make no apologies for it, nor do they have to. They like their long baths, free time, clean homes, shopping sprees, spontaneity, dress size, and lifestyle. They simply want to keep their life the way it is, and do not want a child mucking things up for them. I respect their decision and never judge them for it, nor do I question their decision... to do so would be insulting to them. Heck, sometimes I even envy them.... sometimes.

.... about the OP of this thread.....

I can not image the pain a woman goes through when she realizes she can not have a child, I support any woman in her time of grieving and show compassion as much as possible. I do so with all women who are in that position.

I would never call Flyorra a troll, she is a woman who comes off to be in much pain. She needs support and compassion, not on her silly ideas, but with her grieving process so she may learn to not let others affect her in such a negative way in general.

Flyorra, I hope you allow yourself to heal dear, you deserve happiness and you can be very happy and have a full life without birthing a child. Do not let anger, bitterness, or pain take up residence in your heart. You have too much good to do to waste it on time spent in sadness.

I did not see this last response before my last post....

flyorra said:

ok ok. i get the message, but sometimes i think we need to talk about this sort of thing instead of acting like pretty much doesnt happen.

You may not know this so I will explain this to you...

Some women get happy AFTER they decide to have the child they are carrying. Something comes over you when you are expecting, you can either wallow and be sad for your fleeting freedom, or you decide to be happy in your soon to be changed life. Of course those who tried a long time to have a child and finally do are overjoyed.

Not everyone handles pregnancy easily, some are terrified, some get depressed, some get happy.

Some... are all three at the same time because women generally are hormonal messes during a pregnancy. Stress and environment can also effect ones mood as with all things in life, pregnancy is no different.

One thing I did notice is if a woman has hard periods, her body may not be kind to her during her pregnancy and she will moan, bitch and whine... because the pregnancy will be hard on her body.

If she is has easy periods she will most likely stay positive and have an easy going approach to all the changes her body goes through.

Then there are always exceptions to the rule, and other factors. Each woman is different and so are all pregnancies.

So yes, some women are lying about being happy when pregnant, but this has more to do with her lifestyle and support system and not the baby... otherwise she would have gotten an abortion.

When I found out I was pregnant, the first thing the doctor said to me when I came into his office is "You do not have to feel obligated to have this child." You see, being pregnant can take my life. I am extremely high risk. In fact, a doctor at a high risk clinic told me that out of all the pregnant women they see daily, I was the only one he would truly declare to be high risk. He said the majority of the women have diabetes or toxemia and he said they deal with that on a daily basis. I, on the other hand, was someone they expected to read about in medical journals, but never treat.

I had just been told I was pregnant, and I had a doctor offering to give me an abortion because I could die. This little soul that I was carrying in my womb, could potentially kill me. I had to make a decision. Was the life I was carrying in my womb, worth less than my own life? Most definitely not. I told the doctor that if he was not a 100% positive that I would die, he could forget it. He said, "There are no 100% guarantees in life. Nothing is ever 100% positive. You know this." I said, "Then you can forget it." He looked at me, sighed deeply, and said, "This is going to be a knee knocker for the next 9 months."

I had to go to the clinic once a week, and since this was a county hospital, it meant I was there all day on those visits. I had to take shots 4 times a day. I had to have my blood drawn each week, several vials. At 5 months, I was admitted to the hospital and the doctor was ready to take the baby, because I had come close to dying. I refused to let him take my baby. When I finally went into labor, I was in labor for 4 days. Hard labor for 24 hours. They took me up for an emergency c-section because my baby was going into fetal distress. After he was born, 2 days later, they had to open my stomach again, because I started bleeding internally from c-section.

I have had 4 miscarriages and a stillborn daughter. I can't take birth control, because they, too, can kill me. Anything that has hormones in it, I can't have. My own body can end up betraying if my hormone levels get too high. And my husband did not believe in condoms or pulling out. Not once, did I ever think of aborting my baby. I have two sons, and a daughter. I could not get my tubes tied due to surgeries also being high risk for me. My grandmother died giving birth to my mom and my mom died 4 months after the birth of my sister. So death was a very strong possibility.

I have been told countless times over the years that I can die at anytime. Death no longer scares me. But yes, I was selfish having my babies, because having them meant taking the risk of ending my own life. Because they were so much more, so worth, everything I went through to bring them into this world. And I would do it again, in a heart beat.

Yes, the world is over-populated, and I think that we should be considerate of that. I think that we all have a responsibility to leave the world a better place than it was when we arrived. And I teach my children that same responsibility.

So am I selfish? Perhaps. Perhaps the willingness to risk my life was a selfish thing to do in order to protect the lives of my children. Perhaps taking shots that made me sick 4 times a day, caused extensive bruising, and just down right hurt, was a selfish thing to do, to give me a chance to live long enough to bring my children into the world.

My daughter was born by c-section, and I asked them at that time to tie my tubes because I knew I would not survive another pregnancy. My body was weakened, I had almost lost my daughter several times, she was premature because my body was too weak to keep nurturing her. So when they did the c-section they tied my tubes. When my oldest was born by c-section, I was only 20 and a c-section didn't cross my mind at that time. If it had, I probably would have had it done then since I can't take birth control. The doctor didn't even think to suggest it.

So before someone starts judging others for their decisions, perhaps they should look at what they have gone through in order to come to those decisions. I have lived the longest in my family with my condition. My daughter does not have the condition. Nor does she carry the gene, nor do my sons. So hopefully this ends with me.

prittypriss said:

When I found out I was pregnant, the first thing the doctor said to me when I came into his office is "You do not have to feel obligated to have this child." You see, being pregnant can take my life. I am extremely high risk. In fact, a doctor at a high risk clinic told me that out of all the pregnant women they see daily, I was the only one he would truly declare to be high risk. He said the majority of the women have diabetes or toxemia and he said they deal with that on a daily basis. I, on the other hand, was someone they expected to read about in medical journals, but never treat.

I had just been told I was pregnant, and I had a doctor offering to give me an abortion because I could die. This little soul that I was carrying in my womb, could potentially kill me. I had to make a decision. Was the life I was carrying in my womb, worth less than my own life? Most definitely not. I told the doctor that if he was not a 100% positive that I would die, he could forget it. He said, "There are no 100% guarantees in life. Nothing is ever 100% positive. You know this." I said, "Then you can forget it." He looked at me, sighed deeply, and said, "This is going to be a knee knocker for the next 9 months."

I had to go to the clinic once a week, and since this was a county hospital, it meant I was there all day on those visits. I had to take shots 4 times a day. I had to have my blood drawn each week, several vials. At 5 months, I was admitted to the hospital and the doctor was ready to take the baby, because I had come close to dying. I refused to let him take my baby. When I finally went into labor, I was in labor for 4 days. Hard labor for 24 hours. They took me up for an emergency c-section because my baby was going into fetal distress. After he was born, 2 days later, they had to open my stomach again, because I started bleeding internally from c-section.

I have had 4 miscarriages and a stillborn daughter. I can't take birth control, because they, too, can kill me. Anything that has hormones in it, I can't have. My own body can end up betraying if my hormone levels get too high. And my husband did not believe in condoms or pulling out. Not once, did I ever think of aborting my baby. I have two sons, and a daughter. I could not get my tubes tied due to surgeries also being high risk for me. My grandmother died giving birth to my mom and my mom died 4 months after the birth of my sister. So death was a very strong possibility.

I have been told countless times over the years that I can die at anytime. Death no longer scares me. But yes, I was selfish having my babies, because having them meant taking the risk of ending my own life. Because they were so much more, so worth, everything I went through to bring them into this world. And I would do it again, in a heart beat.

Yes, the world is over-populated, and I think that we should be considerate of that. I think that we all have a responsibility to leave the world a better place than it was when we arrived. And I teach my children that same responsibility.

So am I selfish? Perhaps. Perhaps the willingness to risk my life was a selfish thing to do in order to protect the lives of my children. Perhaps taking shots that made me sick 4 times a day, caused extensive bruising, and just down right hurt, was a selfish thing to do, to give me a chance to live long enough to bring my children into the world.

My daughter was born by c-section, and I asked them at that time to tie my tubes because I knew I would not survive another pregnancy. My body was weakened, I had almost lost my daughter several times, she was premature because my body was too weak to keep nurturing her. So when they did the c-section they tied my tubes. When my oldest was born by c-section, I was only 20 and a c-section didn't cross my mind at that time. If it had, I probably would have had it done then since I can't take birth control. The doctor didn't even think to suggest it.

So before someone starts judging others for their decisions, perhaps they should look at what they have gone through in order to come to those decisions. I have lived the longest in my family with my condition. My daughter does not have the condition. Nor does she carry the gene, nor do my sons. So hopefully this ends with me.

That is an amazing story I'm glad you survived.

JuliePurplehead said:

prittypriss said:

When I found out I was pregnant, the first thing the doctor said to me when I came into his office is "You do not have to feel obligated to have this child." You see, being pregnant can take my life. I am extremely high risk. In fact, a doctor at a high risk clinic told me that out of all the pregnant women they see daily, I was the only one he would truly declare to be high risk. He said the majority of the women have diabetes or toxemia and he said they deal with that on a daily basis. I, on the other hand, was someone they expected to read about in medical journals, but never treat.

I had just been told I was pregnant, and I had a doctor offering to give me an abortion because I could die. This little soul that I was carrying in my womb, could potentially kill me. I had to make a decision. Was the life I was carrying in my womb, worth less than my own life? Most definitely not. I told the doctor that if he was not a 100% positive that I would die, he could forget it. He said, "There are no 100% guarantees in life. Nothing is ever 100% positive. You know this." I said, "Then you can forget it." He looked at me, sighed deeply, and said, "This is going to be a knee knocker for the next 9 months."

I had to go to the clinic once a week, and since this was a county hospital, it meant I was there all day on those visits. I had to take shots 4 times a day. I had to have my blood drawn each week, several vials. At 5 months, I was admitted to the hospital and the doctor was ready to take the baby, because I had come close to dying. I refused to let him take my baby. When I finally went into labor, I was in labor for 4 days. Hard labor for 24 hours. They took me up for an emergency c-section because my baby was going into fetal distress. After he was born, 2 days later, they had to open my stomach again, because I started bleeding internally from c-section.

I have had 4 miscarriages and a stillborn daughter. I can't take birth control, because they, too, can kill me. Anything that has hormones in it, I can't have. My own body can end up betraying if my hormone levels get too high. And my husband did not believe in condoms or pulling out. Not once, did I ever think of aborting my baby. I have two sons, and a daughter. I could not get my tubes tied due to surgeries also being high risk for me. My grandmother died giving birth to my mom and my mom died 4 months after the birth of my sister. So death was a very strong possibility.

I have been told countless times over the years that I can die at anytime. Death no longer scares me. But yes, I was selfish having my babies, because having them meant taking the risk of ending my own life. Because they were so much more, so worth, everything I went through to bring them into this world. And I would do it again, in a heart beat.

Yes, the world is over-populated, and I think that we should be considerate of that. I think that we all have a responsibility to leave the world a better place than it was when we arrived. And I teach my children that same responsibility.

So am I selfish? Perhaps. Perhaps the willingness to risk my life was a selfish thing to do in order to protect the lives of my children. Perhaps taking shots that made me sick 4 times a day, caused extensive bruising, and just down right hurt, was a selfish thing to do, to give me a chance to live long enough to bring my children into the world.

My daughter was born by c-section, and I asked them at that time to tie my tubes because I knew I would not survive another pregnancy. My body was weakened, I had almost lost my daughter several times, she was premature because my body was too weak to keep nurturing her. So when they did the c-section they tied my tubes. When my oldest was born by c-section, I was only 20 and a c-section didn't cross my mind at that time. If it had, I probably would have had it done then since I can't take birth control. The doctor didn't even think to suggest it.

So before someone starts judging others for their decisions, perhaps they should look at what they have gone through in order to come to those decisions. I have lived the longest in my family with my condition. My daughter does not have the condition. Nor does she carry the gene, nor do my sons. So hopefully this ends with me.

That is an amazing story I'm glad you survived.

JuliePurplehead said:

prittypriss said:

When I found out I was pregnant, the first thing the doctor said to me when I came into his office is "You do not have to feel obligated to have this child." You see, being pregnant can take my life. I am extremely high risk. In fact, a doctor at a high risk clinic told me that out of all the pregnant women they see daily, I was the only one he would truly declare to be high risk. He said the majority of the women have diabetes or toxemia and he said they deal with that on a daily basis. I, on the other hand, was someone they expected to read about in medical journals, but never treat.

I had just been told I was pregnant, and I had a doctor offering to give me an abortion because I could die. This little soul that I was carrying in my womb, could potentially kill me. I had to make a decision. Was the life I was carrying in my womb, worth less than my own life? Most definitely not. I told the doctor that if he was not a 100% positive that I would die, he could forget it. He said, "There are no 100% guarantees in life. Nothing is ever 100% positive. You know this." I said, "Then you can forget it." He looked at me, sighed deeply, and said, "This is going to be a knee knocker for the next 9 months."

I had to go to the clinic once a week, and since this was a county hospital, it meant I was there all day on those visits. I had to take shots 4 times a day. I had to have my blood drawn each week, several vials. At 5 months, I was admitted to the hospital and the doctor was ready to take the baby, because I had come close to dying. I refused to let him take my baby. When I finally went into labor, I was in labor for 4 days. Hard labor for 24 hours. They took me up for an emergency c-section because my baby was going into fetal distress. After he was born, 2 days later, they had to open my stomach again, because I started bleeding internally from c-section.

I have had 4 miscarriages and a stillborn daughter. I can't take birth control, because they, too, can kill me. Anything that has hormones in it, I can't have. My own body can end up betraying if my hormone levels get too high. And my husband did not believe in condoms or pulling out. Not once, did I ever think of aborting my baby. I have two sons, and a daughter. I could not get my tubes tied due to surgeries also being high risk for me. My grandmother died giving birth to my mom and my mom died 4 months after the birth of my sister. So death was a very strong possibility.

I have been told countless times over the years that I can die at anytime. Death no longer scares me. But yes, I was selfish having my babies, because having them meant taking the risk of ending my own life. Because they were so much more, so worth, everything I went through to bring them into this world. And I would do it again, in a heart beat.

Yes, the world is over-populated, and I think that we should be considerate of that. I think that we all have a responsibility to leave the world a better place than it was when we arrived. And I teach my children that same responsibility.

So am I selfish? Perhaps. Perhaps the willingness to risk my life was a selfish thing to do in order to protect the lives of my children. Perhaps taking shots that made me sick 4 times a day, caused extensive bruising, and just down right hurt, was a selfish thing to do, to give me a chance to live long enough to bring my children into the world.

My daughter was born by c-section, and I asked them at that time to tie my tubes because I knew I would not survive another pregnancy. My body was weakened, I had almost lost my daughter several times, she was premature because my body was too weak to keep nurturing her. So when they did the c-section they tied my tubes. When my oldest was born by c-section, I was only 20 and a c-section didn't cross my mind at that time. If it had, I probably would have had it done then since I can't take birth control. The doctor didn't even think to suggest it.

So before someone starts judging others for their decisions, perhaps they should look at what they have gone through in order to come to those decisions. I have lived the longest in my family with my condition. My daughter does not have the condition. Nor does she carry the gene, nor do my sons. So hopefully this ends with me.

That is an amazing story I'm glad you survived.

Thank you for sharing.

luv4u said:

JuliePurplehead said:

That is an amazing story I'm glad you survived.

Thank you for sharing.

Prittypriss thank you.

Priss, reading all that definitely gave me a different perspective too, thanks for sharing it with us.

Thanks everyone. I've lived with my condition for such a long time now, that to me it's not a big deal anymore. But I'm reminded every once in awhile what can happen. I had surgery about a year ago, and my regular doctor didn't want anything to do with it, (it was the OB/GYN doc that felt the surgery was necessary but I needed a hemotologist to monitor me). My reg. doc said, "I took a vow to do no harm and if I'm involved with this, there is a possibility I would break that vow, and I just can't do it." (He is a good doc, just knows his limitations, which I respect.)

But the amazing thing are my children. And while I know that the OP has an issue with people getting pregnant, probably for the very reason of everything I've gone through, my children were worth every moment of what I had to go through to bring them into the world. Every worry, every grey hair I have on my head now, every pain, every shot, every doctor appointment each week, including my own life, they are worth that and so much more. And it bothers me that the OP thinks that someone like me is stupid for having children, that it is selfish, and we should not do it, and the whole time I know I would give my life to protect my children with not even a second thought, because I was willing to give my life, just to bring them into the world. They are truly incredible and amazing and I am so happy and so proud to have them be a part of my life.

My oldest son is an animal lover, volunteers at an animal shelter and is studying to do conservation work. My middle is son is so tender and sensitive and so protective of his little sister. One day she was being brave about something, doing something my son thought she shouldn't do, and he was trying to talk her out of it, telling her she shouldn't do it. But my daughter, is spunky and not afraid of anything and meets everything head on, wouldn't listen to him. He looked at me, shook his head, and said, "I hate it when she's brave." He was ten, she was 7. If they don't pick up their toys and I start talking about donating them and anything left on the floor will be donated, because if they don't respect their toys enough to take care of them, then they need a new home. My son, who hates to clean, will make sure he helps his sister pick up every one of her toys, even at the expense of possibly leaving some of his toys out by the time the time is up, because "it would make her cry to lose any of her toys, and I don't want to see her disappointed." I love my kids.

Stymie said:

Nothing like the org to make me feel sane.

prittypriss said:

Thanks everyone. I've lived with my condition for such a long time now, that to me it's not a big deal anymore. But I'm reminded every once in awhile what can happen. I had surgery about a year ago, and my regular doctor didn't want anything to do with it, (it was the OB/GYN doc that felt the surgery was necessary but I needed a hemotologist to monitor me). My reg. doc said, "I took a vow to do no harm and if I'm involved with this, there is a possibility I would break that vow, and I just can't do it." (He is a good doc, just knows his limitations, which I respect.)

But the amazing thing are my children. And while I know that the OP has an issue with people getting pregnant, probably for the very reason of everything I've gone through, my children were worth every moment of what I had to go through to bring them into the world. Every worry, every grey hair I have on my head now, every pain, every shot, every doctor appointment each week, including my own life, they are worth that and so much more. And it bothers me that the OP thinks that someone like me is stupid for having children, that it is selfish, and we should not do it, and the whole time I know I would give my life to protect my children with not even a second thought, because I was willing to give my life, just to bring them into the world. They are truly incredible and amazing and I am so happy and so proud to have them be a part of my life.

My oldest son is an animal lover, volunteers at an animal shelter and is studying to do conservation work. My middle is son is so tender and sensitive and so protective of his little sister. One day she was being brave about something, doing something my son thought she shouldn't do, and he was trying to talk her out of it, telling her she shouldn't do it. But my daughter, is spunky and not afraid of anything and meets everything head on, wouldn't listen to him. He looked at me, shook his head, and said, "I hate it when she's brave." He was ten, she was 7. If they don't pick up their toys and I start talking about donating them and anything left on the floor will be donated, because if they don't respect their toys enough to take care of them, then they need a new home. My son, who hates to clean, will make sure he helps his sister pick up every one of her toys, even at the expense of possibly leaving some of his toys out by the time the time is up, because "it would make her cry to lose any of her toys, and I don't want to see her disappointed." I love my kids.

Very poignant post. I'm so glad the scary journey was worth the end result. The bottom-line is really that having children is an individual choice, especially for the women who choose to bear children, and, of course, not all women who have children make the choice to have them and not all are good parents. All women (who care) should be respected for making the choice to have children or not to have them. Obviously, there are strong feelings on either side, but it should not be a divisive issue. For some, it can be a very rewarding experience; for others, it is the last experience they would want. I respect both positions. But, in saying that, it is my experience that having a child is not, ultimately, a selfish act. In fact, most women find that they have to put their own wants and needs on hold in order to be a good parent who wants the best for their child and wants he/her to become the best person possible so he/her can live independently and, hopefully, better than the parent. At least, that is the shining goal.

purplethunder3121 said:

prittypriss said:

Thanks everyone. I've lived with my condition for such a long time now, that to me it's not a big deal anymore. But I'm reminded every once in awhile what can happen. I had surgery about a year ago, and my regular doctor didn't want anything to do with it, (it was the OB/GYN doc that felt the surgery was necessary but I needed a hemotologist to monitor me). My reg. doc said, "I took a vow to do no harm and if I'm involved with this, there is a possibility I would break that vow, and I just can't do it." (He is a good doc, just knows his limitations, which I respect.)

But the amazing thing are my children. And while I know that the OP has an issue with people getting pregnant, probably for the very reason of everything I've gone through, my children were worth every moment of what I had to go through to bring them into the world. Every worry, every grey hair I have on my head now, every pain, every shot, every doctor appointment each week, including my own life, they are worth that and so much more. And it bothers me that the OP thinks that someone like me is stupid for having children, that it is selfish, and we should not do it, and the whole time I know I would give my life to protect my children with not even a second thought, because I was willing to give my life, just to bring them into the world. They are truly incredible and amazing and I am so happy and so proud to have them be a part of my life.

My oldest son is an animal lover, volunteers at an animal shelter and is studying to do conservation work. My middle is son is so tender and sensitive and so protective of his little sister. One day she was being brave about something, doing something my son thought she shouldn't do, and he was trying to talk her out of it, telling her she shouldn't do it. But my daughter, is spunky and not afraid of anything and meets everything head on, wouldn't listen to him. He looked at me, shook his head, and said, "I hate it when she's brave." He was ten, she was 7. If they don't pick up their toys and I start talking about donating them and anything left on the floor will be donated, because if they don't respect their toys enough to take care of them, then they need a new home. My son, who hates to clean, will make sure he helps his sister pick up every one of her toys, even at the expense of possibly leaving some of his toys out by the time the time is up, because "it would make her cry to lose any of her toys, and I don't want to see her disappointed." I love my kids.

Very poignant post. I'm so glad the scary journey was worth the end result. The bottom-line is really that having children is an individual choice, especially for the women who choose to bear children, and, of course, not all women who have children make the choice to have them and not all are good parents. All women (who care) should be respected for making the choice to have children or not to have them. Obviously, there are strong feelings on either side, but it should not be a divisive issue. For some, it can be a very rewarding experience; for others, it is the last experience they would want. I respect both positions. But, in saying that, it is my experience that having a child is not, ultimately, a selfish act. In fact, most women find that they have to put their own wants and needs on hold in order to be a good parent who wants the best for their child and wants he/her to become the best person possible so he/her can live independently and, hopefully, better than the parent. At least, that is the shining goal.

I agree, it is an individual choice. I do NOT find fault with a woman who chooses to not have children. I respect that decision and am very happy they are making that choice rather than having a child to live up to some societal expectation, and becoming trapped by doing something they don't really want to do. I know that many women that would have been in my position, would not have thought twice about agreeing with the doctor and not feeling "obligated" to have the baby. And I do not think any less of a woman who has health problems and chooses to not have a baby. Everyone has the right to choose what is best for them, and while their decision may not fit with what I would decide, it doesn't make that decision any less than the decision I would make, nor does it make it any better. It's just what is right for that particular woman. I just don't want to have someone else tell me I'm stupid or wrong or selfish for making a decision that is right for me. I guess I feel strongly about this exactly because of what I had to go through to bring my children into the world and knowing in my heart of hearts that if I could go back in time and face that same decision, I would make the same choices. Even with the traumas of the pregnancies, I loved being pregnant and love being a mom even more.

prittypriss said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Very poignant post. I'm so glad the scary journey was worth the end result. The bottom-line is really that having children is an individual choice, especially for the women who choose to bear children, and, of course, not all women who have children make the choice to have them and not all are good parents. All women (who care) should be respected for making the choice to have children or not to have them. Obviously, there are strong feelings on either side, but it should not be a divisive issue. For some, it can be a very rewarding experience; for others, it is the last experience they would want. I respect both positions. But, in saying that, it is my experience that having a child is not, ultimately, a selfish act. In fact, most women find that they have to put their own wants and needs on hold in order to be a good parent who wants the best for their child and wants he/her to become the best person possible so he/her can live independently and, hopefully, better than the parent. At least, that is the shining goal.

I agree, it is an individual choice. I do NOT find fault with a woman who chooses to not have children. I respect that decision and am very happy they are making that choice rather than having a child to live up to some societal expectation, and becoming trapped by doing something they don't really want to do. I know that many women that would have been in my position, would not have thought twice about agreeing with the doctor and not feeling "obligated" to have the baby. And I do not think any less of a woman who has health problems and chooses to not have a baby. Everyone has the right to choose what is best for them, and while their decision may not fit with what I would decide, it doesn't make that decision any less than the decision I would make, nor does it make it any better. It's just what is right for that particular woman. I just don't want to have someone else tell me I'm stupid or wrong or selfish for making a decision that is right for me. I guess I feel strongly about this exactly because of what I had to go through to bring my children into the world and knowing in my heart of hearts that if I could go back in time and face that same decision, I would make the same choices. Even with the traumas of the pregnancies, I loved being pregnant and love being a mom even more.

I would also say that your decision to go ahead with your pregnancy and have your child was the least selfish decision that I have ever heard regarding pregnancy. Congratulations on getting through it and having children that you enjoy living life with. And, as you know, being an invested parent is anything but selfish...

I need to be more careful.

[Edited 8/5/12 22:21pm]

prittypriss said:

Thanks everyone. I've lived with my condition for such a long time now, that to me it's not a big deal anymore. But I'm reminded every once in awhile what can happen. I had surgery about a year ago, and my regular doctor didn't want anything to do with it, (it was the OB/GYN doc that felt the surgery was necessary but I needed a hemotologist to monitor me). My reg. doc said, "I took a vow to do no harm and if I'm involved with this, there is a possibility I would break that vow, and I just can't do it." (He is a good doc, just knows his limitations, which I respect.)

But the amazing thing are my children. And while I know that the OP has an issue with people getting pregnant, probably for the very reason of everything I've gone through, my children were worth every moment of what I had to go through to bring them into the world. Every worry, every grey hair I have on my head now, every pain, every shot, every doctor appointment each week, including my own life, they are worth that and so much more. And it bothers me that the OP thinks that someone like me is stupid for having children, that it is selfish, and we should not do it, and the whole time I know I would give my life to protect my children with not even a second thought, because I was willing to give my life, just to bring them into the world. They are truly incredible and amazing and I am so happy and so proud to have them be a part of my life.

My oldest son is an animal lover, volunteers at an animal shelter and is studying to do conservation work. My middle is son is so tender and sensitive and so protective of his little sister. One day she was being brave about something, doing something my son thought she shouldn't do, and he was trying to talk her out of it, telling her she shouldn't do it. But my daughter, is spunky and not afraid of anything and meets everything head on, wouldn't listen to him. He looked at me, shook his head, and said, "I hate it when she's brave." He was ten, she was 7. If they don't pick up their toys and I start talking about donating them and anything left on the floor will be donated, because if they don't respect their toys enough to take care of them, then they need a new home. My son, who hates to clean, will make sure he helps his sister pick up every one of her toys, even at the expense of possibly leaving some of his toys out by the time the time is up, because "it would make her cry to lose any of her toys, and I don't want to see her disappointed." I love my kids.

They sound so amazing, and the little one is just like you I love hearing stories like these, because with the type of work I do, I meet lots of families, but the kids are so spoiled and there is no proper parenting or discipline, or maybe I'm just used to seeing that often that I forget about the positive aspects when I know they do still exist