I saw this last night. It was the first time I debated whether or not to see a movie

on back to back nights. Not because it was so awesome, but just because I felt

as if I went on an epic ride and wanted to feel like I finished a book or something.

The Lord of The Rings trilogy does not compare to what Nolan did here with this

franchise. I have KnightFall which tells the story of how Bane does arrive on the

Gotham scene to eventually become the man who "broke the bat" and I think

Nolan's interpretation of that arc was pretty nice.

The scene where Bane beats the fuck outta Batman was horrifying, beautiful and

sad at the same time. I could barely watch it but had to watch Batman finally

get pummeled like he does in the comic. It was brutal.

The problems I had with this flick were:

1. The editing wasn't so great. The story didn't seem to have a congruous or

easy flow to it. It jumped from moment to moment without the characters or

the dialogue providing any needed context. Gordon and Fox, who provide

the gravitas needed for a comic book film didn't get enough screen time to

give part three the nobility needed to counterbalance all the anarchy, violence

and chaos that permeated the film.

2. Bane's voice was obnoxious at first. But for all his intellect and brawn, he

turns out to be just a glorified bodyguard? Meh. Nolan should have spent a little

more time exploring the Miranda/Talia (who, in the comics, comes to love Batman

and they even have a son, if I'm not mistaken) character.

3. John Blake got a little too much time in the movie if Nolan is not going to

reboot the franchise with Blake as ROBIN (which I think Nolan did a pretty

good job at establishing), especially with the bridge scene. That was unnecessary;

we already knew that Blake was heroic. I initially thought that Blake was going

to be Jean Paul Valley but realized that was stupid of me as soon as we find out

that Blake was an orphan (which screamed out "I'm ROBIN, people!"

4. Bane's demise came so quickly with the largest amount of anti-climaticism I've

ever witnessed in film. And Frozone was right: villains spend too much time

monologing: shut the fuck up and get the job done, you arrogant-love-to-hear-

your-own-pontificating-voice-dipshit.

5. The Ra's Al Ghul hallucination was goofy.

6. It was Barbara Kingsolver who heals Batman in the comic. And Bruce Wayne

actually falls in love with her while she heals him. My point in mentioning this? Barbara

Kingsolver is a Black woman. Helloo, Nolan? Get some sisters in your flicks, homie...

One note: I don't watch movies to weed out the symbolism and allegories and philosophical

nuggets so I didn't care to relate the movie's post 9/11-occupy movement-financial

woes of 2008-stuff at all. I want to be entertained, not lectured at.

SPOILER ALERT:

There is no way that Wayne/Bats was in The Bat when it took away the nuclear bomb

or why did Nolan go through all that trouble with having Fox mention the autopilot

twice in previous scenes before finally realizing that it was in fact operational and that

Bruce Wayne was responsible for it. But again, the editing is so quick, that the scene

where Alfred acknowledges Bruce in Italy (?) is over so quick that you don't get a

chance to let it soak in that BRUCE IS STILL ALIVE.

I had a good time watching this movie, even though some Jheri curled juiced dude

and his weaved up girlfriend plopped their asses right in front of me and I had to

actually smell dude's activator for 3hours. And there was a fat dude who came in

the back near where I was seated to sneak a peek and I gave him the eye as if

to say "Don't start no shit in here fat boy; and keep your hands where I can see

them."

rip Aurora victims.

JoeTyler said:

McG should be the director of the new trilogy...

So it can have skateboards and MTV references and Rob Dyrdek

or whatever the fuck that dude's name is all up in it? No thanks.

Let Spike Jonze and his weirdo ass give it a go or Antoine Fuqua,

who could make it even more grittier. Who's the dude who

directed 300? Maybe he'd have an interesting interpretation as

well.

That being said, the next director for a Batman movie will not come

for another 10-20 years - Nolan has set a pretty high benchmark.

My favorite Nolan flick is The Prestige, which also has Bane and Caine

in it and a fucken great twist at the end.

duccichucka said:

JoeTyler said:

McG should be the director of the new trilogy...

So it can have skateboards and MTV references and Rob Dyrdek

or whatever the fuck that dude's name is all up in it? No thanks.

Let Spike Jonze and his weirdo ass give it a go or Antoine Fuqua,

who could make it even more grittier. Who's the dude who

directed 300? Maybe he'd have an interesting interpretation as

well.

That being said, the next director for a Batman movie will not come

for another 10-20 years - Nolan has set a pretty high benchmark.

My favorite Nolan flick is The Prestige, which also has Bane and Caine

in it and a fucken great twist at the end.

I saw The Prestige and felt cheated, especially by the twist.

I thought Alfred was hallucinating because Bruce Wayne was there with Selena Kyle.

The discussion regarding the autopilot? I thought it meant Batman stayed aboard. How he would have gotten away and clear of the blast while not being visible from the city . . . .I don't know.

SUPRMAN said:

SUPRMAN said:

duccichucka said:

So it can have skateboards and MTV references and Rob Dyrdek

or whatever the fuck that dude's name is all up in it? No thanks.

Let Spike Jonze and his weirdo ass give it a go or Antoine Fuqua,

who could make it even more grittier. Who's the dude who

directed 300? Maybe he'd have an interesting interpretation as

well.

That being said, the next director for a Batman movie will not come

for another 10-20 years - Nolan has set a pretty high benchmark.

My favorite Nolan flick is The Prestige, which also has Bane and Caine

in it and a fucken great twist at the end.

I saw The Prestige and felt cheated, especially by the twist.

I thought Alfred was hallucinating because Bruce Wayne was there with Selena Kyle.

The discussion regarding the autopilot? I thought it meant Batman stayed aboard. How he would have gotten away and clear of the blast while not being visible from the city . . . .I don't know.

Side note: That's Shondra Kingsolving, not Barbara Kingsolver who heals Bruce Wayne

from the Bane whupping.

How did you prefer The Prestige to end? That's the only logical explanation:

dude had a twin. Otherwise, magic is real and Nolan is too much of a realist

to suggest that magic is actually concrete. The Illusionist was pretty dope too.

Why did you think Alfred was hallucinating? He never met Selina Kyle save that one

night she was waitressing in the Wayne Manor at the beginning of the movie. If he

didn't know her well, why hallucinate that she's the woman with Bruce at the end of the

movie, wearing Bruce's mother's pearls? Alfred left the Manor by the time Selina

and Bruce fell in love and had no clue that Selina was the Cat and was actually involved

in the saga. So why is he hallucinating about Selina as opposed to Rachel? Alfred is

hallucinating that Bruce is with a woman he met for two minutes? Hmm.....

When Fox first tells Bruce about the Bat, he mentions that the autopilot needs work.

And then he mentions the Bat's autopilot again later in the film. Clearly Nolan is factoring

in the Bat's autopilot as a contributing feature because at the end, Fox clearly is

dumbfounded (I think he realizes Wayne is still alive) when he is told that the Bat's

autopilot was actually fixed by Bruce Wayne! The only way he could have survived

that detonated bomb is if he initiated the autopilot and was not present during the

bomb's explosion - he was not in the Bat when the bomb exploded. Autopilot was on,

Bruce probably had ejected from it and dipped out so he could leave Gotham in the

hands of Blake and go holler at sexy Selina....mmm.

The five people who knew the identity of Batman: Alfred, Gordon, Fox, Blake and

Selina, all were given clues that Bruce was still alive. Think about when Gordon

astonishingly receives that new bat signal and then feverishly looks about to

see if Bats/Bruce is there. Alfred sees Bruce and Selina together. Fox gets the news

that the autopilot was operational (because of Bruce Wayne). And Blake (ROBIN)

gets the plans/map to the Batcave. Remember, Bruce says to Blake: you wear

a mask to protect the ones you love. So at the end, the ones that Bruce really

and truly love (Blake not so much): Alfred, Fox, Gordon and Selina, all get the message

that he's still alive. Bruce no longer needs a "mask" to protect his loved ones any-

more. Consider that Selina begs Bruce to come with her before he fights with

Bane again. He loved her - why die and not be allowed to finally experience what

requited love is? Remember, he's told by Alfred that Rachel chose Dent over him...

And if you consider that Alfred tells Bruce about his dream at the beginning of the movie -

why would Nolan go through all the trouble in having Alfred relay his dream to Bruce

if he wasn't going to actually use the dream to let us know that Bruce was still alive?

If Alfred never mentions the dream in the beginning, why would Nolan have Alfred

hallucinating about the dream at the end if it wasn't going to suggest Bruce is still alive?

And remember in the first two parts of this franchise: Wayne mentioned a few times that

Batman was a symbol, not a living person. Anyone can assume the mantle of Batman.

Wayne needed to find peace; that he had to let Batman "die" so that Bruce Wayne could

finally live.

None of this actuallly proves anything but only serves to allow me to think that Bruce

Wayne survived the blast.

naffi said:

SUPRMAN said:

It was a neutron bomb which is designed to kill people without destroying buildings. It therefore has a small blast radius. If he were far away enough and at altitude, the wave wouldn't be a catastrophic one. Plenty of room to dissipate if he were outside the bay.

Get back from where?

From the pit, where Bane had left hin

What do you mean that no one could get out of the pit? Talia as a little girl got out!

I had a question about Bruce's ascent from the cave: when he finally does crawl up

out of it and drops the rope down there, is he giving the other prisoners a way out

of it as well?

Anyways, this movie would have been really epic if there were two parts of the film:

do part one of the trilogy in the summer. Do part two of the trilogy in the winter. That

way, he can flesh out Talia, Bane's beginnings, Bruce's rehab from the back breaking,

who John Blake is and where he comes from and more room to flesh out who Selina

Kyle is and how she got trained to whup so much ass. Also, Dagget's role needed

more explanation; Modine's role needed more explanation; I think the rift between

Bruce and Alfred could've been highlighted; and we needed more information about

why Bruce is hobbled at the beginning and how/why he let Wayne Enterprises suffer

for 8 years.

Because he is human, Batman is the shit. Fuck Superman - I've no reference for him.

But given the right training (and loot), a Batman is conceivable.

naffi said:

SUPRMAN said:

It was a neutron bomb which is designed to kill people without destroying buildings. It therefore has a small blast radius. If he were far away enough and at altitude, the wave wouldn't be a catastrophic one. Plenty of room to dissipate if he were outside the bay.

Get back from where?

From the pit, where Bane had left hin

Ah yeah. He's probably well enough known that getting back Stateside wouldn't have been a problem. Getting back into Gotham? Hmmm.

duccichucka said:

SUPRMAN said:

I saw The Prestige and felt cheated, especially by the twist.

I thought Alfred was hallucinating because Bruce Wayne was there with Selena Kyle.

The discussion regarding the autopilot? I thought it meant Batman stayed aboard. How he would have gotten away and clear of the blast while not being visible from the city . . . .I don't know.

Side note: That's Shondra Kingsolving, not Barbara Kingsolver who heals Bruce Wayne

from the Bane whupping.

How did you prefer The Prestige to end? That's the only logical explanation:

dude had a twin. Otherwise, magic is real and Nolan is too much of a realist

to suggest that magic is actually concrete. The Illusionist was pretty dope too.

Why did you think Alfred was hallucinating? He never met Selina Kyle save that one

night she was waitressing in the Wayne Manor at the beginning of the movie. If he

didn't know her well, why hallucinate that she's the woman with Bruce at the end of the

movie, wearing Bruce's mother's pearls? Alfred left the Manor by the time Selina

and Bruce fell in love and had no clue that Selina was the Cat and was actually involved

in the saga. So why is he hallucinating about Selina as opposed to Rachel? Alfred is

hallucinating that Bruce is with a woman he met for two minutes? Hmm.....

When Fox first tells Bruce about the Bat, he mentions that the autopilot needs work.

And then he mentions the Bat's autopilot again later in the film. Clearly Nolan is factoring

in the Bat's autopilot as a contributing feature because at the end, Fox clearly is

dumbfounded (I think he realizes Wayne is still alive) when he is told that the Bat's

autopilot was actually fixed by Bruce Wayne! The only way he could have survived

that detonated bomb is if he initiated the autopilot and was not present during the

bomb's explosion - he was not in the Bat when the bomb exploded. Autopilot was on,

Bruce probably had ejected from it and dipped out so he could leave Gotham in the

hands of Blake and go holler at sexy Selina....mmm.

The five people who knew the identity of Batman: Alfred, Gordon, Fox, Blake and

Selina, all were given clues that Bruce was still alive. Think about when Gordon

astonishingly receives that new bat signal and then feverishly looks about to

see if Bats/Bruce is there. Alfred sees Bruce and Selina together. Fox gets the news

that the autopilot was operational (because of Bruce Wayne). And Blake (ROBIN)

gets the plans/map to the Batcave. Remember, Bruce says to Blake: you wear

a mask to protect the ones you love. So at the end, the ones that Bruce really

and truly love (Blake not so much): Alfred, Fox, Gordon and Selina, all get the message

that he's still alive. Bruce no longer needs a "mask" to protect his loved ones any-

more. Consider that Selina begs Bruce to come with her before he fights with

Bane again. He loved her - why die and not be allowed to finally experience what

requited love is? Remember, he's told by Alfred that Rachel chose Dent over him...

And if you consider that Alfred tells Bruce about his dream at the beginning of the movie -

why would Nolan go through all the trouble in having Alfred relay his dream to Bruce

if he wasn't going to actually use the dream to let us know that Bruce was still alive?

If Alfred never mentions the dream in the beginning, why would Nolan have Alfred

hallucinating about the dream at the end if it wasn't going to suggest Bruce is still alive?

And remember in the first two parts of this franchise: Wayne mentioned a few times that

Batman was a symbol, not a living person. Anyone can assume the mantle of Batman.

Wayne needed to find peace; that he had to let Batman "die" so that Bruce Wayne could

finally live.

None of this actuallly proves anything but only serves to allow me to think that Bruce

Wayne survived the blast.

Selena wasn't wearing the pearls in Italy.

I don't know how he got far enough away without being seen bailing out. He didn't have that much time to dispose of it. Unless he was never in it from the beginning.

[Edited 7/22/12 17:38pm]

SUPRMAN said:

duccichucka said:

Side note: That's Shondra Kingsolving, not Barbara Kingsolver who heals Bruce Wayne

from the Bane whupping.

How did you prefer The Prestige to end? That's the only logical explanation:

dude had a twin. Otherwise, magic is real and Nolan is too much of a realist

to suggest that magic is actually concrete. The Illusionist was pretty dope too.

Why did you think Alfred was hallucinating? He never met Selina Kyle save that one

night she was waitressing in the Wayne Manor at the beginning of the movie. If he

didn't know her well, why hallucinate that she's the woman with Bruce at the end of the

movie, wearing Bruce's mother's pearls? Alfred left the Manor by the time Selina

and Bruce fell in love and had no clue that Selina was the Cat and was actually involved

in the saga. So why is he hallucinating about Selina as opposed to Rachel? Alfred is

hallucinating that Bruce is with a woman he met for two minutes? Hmm.....

When Fox first tells Bruce about the Bat, he mentions that the autopilot needs work.

And then he mentions the Bat's autopilot again later in the film. Clearly Nolan is factoring

in the Bat's autopilot as a contributing feature because at the end, Fox clearly is

dumbfounded (I think he realizes Wayne is still alive) when he is told that the Bat's

autopilot was actually fixed by Bruce Wayne! The only way he could have survived

that detonated bomb is if he initiated the autopilot and was not present during the

bomb's explosion - he was not in the Bat when the bomb exploded. Autopilot was on,

Bruce probably had ejected from it and dipped out so he could leave Gotham in the

hands of Blake and go holler at sexy Selina....mmm.

The five people who knew the identity of Batman: Alfred, Gordon, Fox, Blake and

Selina, all were given clues that Bruce was still alive. Think about when Gordon

astonishingly receives that new bat signal and then feverishly looks about to

see if Bats/Bruce is there. Alfred sees Bruce and Selina together. Fox gets the news

that the autopilot was operational (because of Bruce Wayne). And Blake (ROBIN)

gets the plans/map to the Batcave. Remember, Bruce says to Blake: you wear

a mask to protect the ones you love. So at the end, the ones that Bruce really

and truly love (Blake not so much): Alfred, Fox, Gordon and Selina, all get the message

that he's still alive. Bruce no longer needs a "mask" to protect his loved ones any-

more. Consider that Selina begs Bruce to come with her before he fights with

Bane again. He loved her - why die and not be allowed to finally experience what

requited love is? Remember, he's told by Alfred that Rachel chose Dent over him...

And if you consider that Alfred tells Bruce about his dream at the beginning of the movie -

why would Nolan go through all the trouble in having Alfred relay his dream to Bruce

if he wasn't going to actually use the dream to let us know that Bruce was still alive?

If Alfred never mentions the dream in the beginning, why would Nolan have Alfred

hallucinating about the dream at the end if it wasn't going to suggest Bruce is still alive?

And remember in the first two parts of this franchise: Wayne mentioned a few times that

Batman was a symbol, not a living person. Anyone can assume the mantle of Batman.

Wayne needed to find peace; that he had to let Batman "die" so that Bruce Wayne could

finally live.

None of this actuallly proves anything but only serves to allow me to think that Bruce

Wayne survived the blast.

Selena wasn't wearing the pearls in Italy.

I don't know how he got far enough away without being seen bailing out. He didn't have that much time to dispose of it. Unless he was never in it from the beginning.

[Edited 7/22/12 17:38pm]

She wasn't? Not enough to convince me that Alfred was dreaming about seeing Bruce

anyways. My argument still holds. The pearls are not central to Alfred not hallucinating

when he's in Italy. (You're still a horrible debater: you took one aspect of my post and

decided it was enough to disprove me....)

You can't say Bruce was never in the Bat because he clearly was. We don't know if

Bruce was in the Bat while the bomb was detonating. The movie shows Batman grimacing

while he is ascending out into the ocean. But we never see the totality of the event. By

the way, if the bomb was so powerful, how did the Bat manage to be recovered and examined

by those scientists? Shouldnt have the bomb obliterated the Bat? Blake doesn't assume the mantle begrudgingly; he eagerly accepts it. He eagerly accepts it because he believes

that Batman is alive to pass the mantle on to him. And us never seeing Batman eject from

the Bat doesn't mean he didn't. We don't see how Bruce arrives back to Gotham when

escaping the pit, do we? If Nolan shows Bruce disembarking from the Bat, that wouldn't be Nolan-ian now, would it?!

Bruce survives, otherwise the four (minus Selina) who knew of Batman's true identity

are not informed of those particular events: Fox/autopilot: Gordon/bat signal: Alfred/Italy:

Blake/Batcave map.

SUPRMAN said:

duccichucka said:

Side note: That's Shondra Kingsolving, not Barbara Kingsolver who heals Bruce Wayne

from the Bane whupping.

How did you prefer The Prestige to end? That's the only logical explanation:

dude had a twin. Otherwise, magic is real and Nolan is too much of a realist

to suggest that magic is actually concrete. The Illusionist was pretty dope too.

Why did you think Alfred was hallucinating? He never met Selina Kyle save that one

night she was waitressing in the Wayne Manor at the beginning of the movie. If he

didn't know her well, why hallucinate that she's the woman with Bruce at the end of the

movie, wearing Bruce's mother's pearls? Alfred left the Manor by the time Selina

and Bruce fell in love and had no clue that Selina was the Cat and was actually involved

in the saga. So why is he hallucinating about Selina as opposed to Rachel? Alfred is

hallucinating that Bruce is with a woman he met for two minutes? Hmm.....

When Fox first tells Bruce about the Bat, he mentions that the autopilot needs work.

And then he mentions the Bat's autopilot again later in the film. Clearly Nolan is factoring

in the Bat's autopilot as a contributing feature because at the end, Fox clearly is

dumbfounded (I think he realizes Wayne is still alive) when he is told that the Bat's

autopilot was actually fixed by Bruce Wayne! The only way he could have survived

that detonated bomb is if he initiated the autopilot and was not present during the

bomb's explosion - he was not in the Bat when the bomb exploded. Autopilot was on,

Bruce probably had ejected from it and dipped out so he could leave Gotham in the

hands of Blake and go holler at sexy Selina....mmm.

The five people who knew the identity of Batman: Alfred, Gordon, Fox, Blake and

Selina, all were given clues that Bruce was still alive. Think about when Gordon

astonishingly receives that new bat signal and then feverishly looks about to

see if Bats/Bruce is there. Alfred sees Bruce and Selina together. Fox gets the news

that the autopilot was operational (because of Bruce Wayne). And Blake (ROBIN)

gets the plans/map to the Batcave. Remember, Bruce says to Blake: you wear

a mask to protect the ones you love. So at the end, the ones that Bruce really

and truly love (Blake not so much): Alfred, Fox, Gordon and Selina, all get the message

that he's still alive. Bruce no longer needs a "mask" to protect his loved ones any-

more. Consider that Selina begs Bruce to come with her before he fights with

Bane again. He loved her - why die and not be allowed to finally experience what

requited love is? Remember, he's told by Alfred that Rachel chose Dent over him...

And if you consider that Alfred tells Bruce about his dream at the beginning of the movie -

why would Nolan go through all the trouble in having Alfred relay his dream to Bruce

if he wasn't going to actually use the dream to let us know that Bruce was still alive?

If Alfred never mentions the dream in the beginning, why would Nolan have Alfred

hallucinating about the dream at the end if it wasn't going to suggest Bruce is still alive?

And remember in the first two parts of this franchise: Wayne mentioned a few times that

Batman was a symbol, not a living person. Anyone can assume the mantle of Batman.

Wayne needed to find peace; that he had to let Batman "die" so that Bruce Wayne could

finally live.

None of this actuallly proves anything but only serves to allow me to think that Bruce

Wayne survived the blast.

Selena wasn't wearing the pearls in Italy.

I don't know how he got far enough away without being seen bailing out. He didn't have that much time to dispose of it. Unless he was never in it from the beginning.

[Edited 7/22/12 17:38pm]

Remember when the little mini-explosion went off in one of the skyscrapers before the Batwing came flying by with the nuclear bomb? The bomb itself probably collided with an electrical transformer connected to the building, which makes me think that if Batman was still in the plane, he would have gone through the trouble of getting the aircraft high enough to not risk having the bomb crash into anything or at least maneuver around the tall buildings so it wouldn't hit anything before going out to sea. Since it seems all of his travel vehicles had some sort of emergency exit provisons, I would not be surprised if he ejected himself out of the Batwing before it left the city limits.

728huey said:

SUPRMAN said:

Selena wasn't wearing the pearls in Italy.

I don't know how he got far enough away without being seen bailing out. He didn't have that much time to dispose of it. Unless he was never in it from the beginning.

[Edited 7/22/12 17:38pm]

Remember when the little mini-explosion went off in one of the skyscrapers before the Batwing came flying by with the nuclear bomb? The bomb itself probably collided with an electrical transformer connected to the building, which makes me think that if Batman was still in the plane, he would have gone through the trouble of getting the aircraft high enough to not risk having the bomb crash into anything or at least maneuver around the tall buildings so it wouldn't hit anything before going out to sea. Since it seems all of his travel vehicles had some sort of emergency exit provisons, I would not be surprised if he ejected himself out of the Batwing before it left the city limits.

I'm not sure I agree with your premises but I do agree with your outcome: Batman did

have instant or emergency ejections in most of his vehicles in the trilogy and I do not

believe he was in the Bat when that bomb detonated.

I may go see it again this weekend.

Batman repaired the Autopilot that Lucious Fox had trouble installing on The Bat. That was our first clue that Batman could have jumped ship at anytime. Then the repaired Bat Signal, understanding that somebody would be willing to take on the cape and cowl. Then, the clincher, the actual sighting of him and Selina Kyle in italy.

I did not like the movie. The storyline was pretty good for a 2.5 hour movie that had to tie up a ton of things.

I just did not like the rhythm - the pacing seemed very disjointed

The mouth breathing Batman - Is this Batman or Rambo

Bane's backstory came way too late for me to care - I don't see how it could have been revealed any earlier, but we never really know what his motivation is. That could be done in a way that is frightening, like the Joker, but we kept being misdirected with his motives. One minute he's simply a hired gun, the next, he's a NWO/Occupy terrorist, eventually he's still a hired gun for the Al'Ghul family.

For a 2.5 hour movie, there wasn't a lot of Batman.

I disliked how the Bat-Tanks were so easily dispatched.

Bane breaking Batman's back was not given the proper treatment.

I did like Hathaway's Catwoman, though. Sans the "oh yeah I know how to drive the Bat-cycle no problem" trope, she performed way better than I expected.

That said, I was not sold on her and Wayne's relationship at all.

I did love the character of Talia. That was exactly pitch perfect.

Once again, Alfred steals every scene he is in. Much love to Michael Caine.

duccichucka said:

SUPRMAN said:

Selena wasn't wearing the pearls in Italy.

I don't know how he got far enough away without being seen bailing out. He didn't have that much time to dispose of it. Unless he was never in it from the beginning.

[Edited 7/22/12 17:38pm]

She wasn't? Not enough to convince me that Alfred was dreaming about seeing Bruce

anyways. My argument still holds. The pearls are not central to Alfred not hallucinating

when he's in Italy. (You're still a horrible debater: you took one aspect of my post and

decided it was enough to disprove me....)

You can't say Bruce was never in the Bat because he clearly was. We don't know if

Bruce was in the Bat while the bomb was detonating. The movie shows Batman grimacing

while he is ascending out into the ocean. But we never see the totality of the event. By

the way, if the bomb was so powerful, how did the Bat manage to be recovered and examined

by those scientists? Shouldnt have the bomb obliterated the Bat? Blake doesn't assume the mantle begrudgingly; he eagerly accepts it. He eagerly accepts it because he believes

that Batman is alive to pass the mantle on to him. And us never seeing Batman eject from

the Bat doesn't mean he didn't. We don't see how Bruce arrives back to Gotham when

escaping the pit, do we? If Nolan shows Bruce disembarking from the Bat, that wouldn't be Nolan-ian now, would it?!

Bruce survives, otherwise the four (minus Selina) who knew of Batman's true identity

are not informed of those particular events: Fox/autopilot: Gordon/bat signal: Alfred/Italy:

Blake/Batcave map.

Bruce Wayne has to be dead, and there had to have been a body.

They could not have read the will and disposed of his belongings without a body.

Legally, it takes seven years after a disappearance and NO sightings to declare a person dead.

That's why I think Alfred was dreaming the encounter in Italy.

How was the will read if there were no body? The only other option would be to identify Bruce Wayne as Batman and confirm Batman is dead.

When Bruce was on his personal discovery mission, after seven years he was legally declared dead. Here he hasn't been legally declared dead and seven years have not passed.

SUPRMAN said:

duccichucka said:

She wasn't? Not enough to convince me that Alfred was dreaming about seeing Bruce

anyways. My argument still holds. The pearls are not central to Alfred not hallucinating

when he's in Italy. (You're still a horrible debater: you took one aspect of my post and

decided it was enough to disprove me....)

You can't say Bruce was never in the Bat because he clearly was. We don't know if

Bruce was in the Bat while the bomb was detonating. The movie shows Batman grimacing

while he is ascending out into the ocean. But we never see the totality of the event. By

the way, if the bomb was so powerful, how did the Bat manage to be recovered and examined

by those scientists? Shouldnt have the bomb obliterated the Bat? Blake doesn't assume the mantle begrudgingly; he eagerly accepts it. He eagerly accepts it because he believes

that Batman is alive to pass the mantle on to him. And us never seeing Batman eject from

the Bat doesn't mean he didn't. We don't see how Bruce arrives back to Gotham when

escaping the pit, do we? If Nolan shows Bruce disembarking from the Bat, that wouldn't be Nolan-ian now, would it?!

Bruce survives, otherwise the four (minus Selina) who knew of Batman's true identity

are not informed of those particular events: Fox/autopilot: Gordon/bat signal: Alfred/Italy:

Blake/Batcave map.

Bruce Wayne has to be dead, and there had to have been a body.

They could not have read the will and disposed of his belongings without a body.

Legally, it takes seven years after a disappearance and NO sightings to declare a person dead.

That's why I think Alfred was dreaming the encounter in Italy.

How was the will read if there were no body? The only other option would be to identify Bruce Wayne as Batman and confirm Batman is dead.

When Bruce was on his personal discovery mission, after seven years he was legally declared dead. Here he hasn't been legally declared dead and seven years have not passed.

Wasn't Bruce completely broke as well? I imagine, in a No Prize kind of way, that the circumstances (national disaster) allowed for the system to be expedited. A lot of lives were lost, and not all the bodies would be recovered (death by exile, etc).

One thing that does bother me is how Batman had his emotional character development regarding the necessity of the Batman, but after all of that he still would be willing to give it up and let Robin take over while he gallants in Europe with Selina Kyle. One character development was that he remembered that some circumstances require Batman, and some circumstances require Bruce Wayne.

So yeah, I'm more of a fan of Wayne being dead and was pissed that they have him alive at the end.

SUPRMAN said:

duccichucka said:

She wasn't? Not enough to convince me that Alfred was dreaming about seeing Bruce

anyways. My argument still holds. The pearls are not central to Alfred not hallucinating

when he's in Italy. (You're still a horrible debater: you took one aspect of my post and

decided it was enough to disprove me....)

You can't say Bruce was never in the Bat because he clearly was. We don't know if

Bruce was in the Bat while the bomb was detonating. The movie shows Batman grimacing

while he is ascending out into the ocean. But we never see the totality of the event. By

the way, if the bomb was so powerful, how did the Bat manage to be recovered and examined

by those scientists? Shouldnt have the bomb obliterated the Bat? Blake doesn't assume the mantle begrudgingly; he eagerly accepts it. He eagerly accepts it because he believes

that Batman is alive to pass the mantle on to him. And us never seeing Batman eject from

the Bat doesn't mean he didn't. We don't see how Bruce arrives back to Gotham when

escaping the pit, do we? If Nolan shows Bruce disembarking from the Bat, that wouldn't be Nolan-ian now, would it?!

Bruce survives, otherwise the four (minus Selina) who knew of Batman's true identity

are not informed of those particular events: Fox/autopilot: Gordon/bat signal: Alfred/Italy:

Blake/Batcave map.

Bruce Wayne has to be dead, and there had to have been a body.

They could not have read the will and disposed of his belongings without a body.

Legally, it takes seven years after a disappearance and NO sightings to declare a person dead.

That's why I think Alfred was dreaming the encounter in Italy.

How was the will read if there were no body? The only other option would be to identify Bruce Wayne as Batman and confirm Batman is dead.

When Bruce was on his personal discovery mission, after seven years he was legally declared dead. Here he hasn't been legally declared dead and seven years have not passed.

Dude, you make no sense.

If Bruce Wayne/Batman was in the Bat when that bomb exploded - that nuclear bomb -

do you really think they would have recovered a body?! Hell no! Never in the history

of humankind weaponry has a body been recovered after it has been obliterated. It

would defy the laws of physics. There could not have been a body in that grave - that

would be impossible.

This alone renders the rest of your post moot.

Dauphin said:

SUPRMAN said:

Bruce Wayne has to be dead, and there had to have been a body.

They could not have read the will and disposed of his belongings without a body.

Legally, it takes seven years after a disappearance and NO sightings to declare a person dead.

That's why I think Alfred was dreaming the encounter in Italy.

How was the will read if there were no body? The only other option would be to identify Bruce Wayne as Batman and confirm Batman is dead.

When Bruce was on his personal discovery mission, after seven years he was legally declared dead. Here he hasn't been legally declared dead and seven years have not passed.

Wasn't Bruce completely broke as well? I imagine, in a No Prize kind of way, that the circumstances (national disaster) allowed for the system to be expedited. A lot of lives were lost, and not all the bodies would be recovered (death by exile, etc).

One thing that does bother me is how Batman had his emotional character development regarding the necessity of the Batman, but after all of that he still would be willing to give it up and let Robin take over while he gallants in Europe with Selina Kyle. One character development was that he remembered that some circumstances require Batman, and some circumstances require Bruce Wayne.

So yeah, I'm more of a fan of Wayne being dead and was pissed that they have him alive at the end.

Bruce was willing to give up being Batman because he was exhausted and Alfred, his

surrogate father, was right: go live your life. Give up being the knight that Gotham

needs and keep it moving. Batman is not entirely Bruce Wayne. Batman is a symbol.

Why leave the Batcave plans to Blake if he wasn't ready to give it up, dead or alive?

Bruce Wayne/Batman knew that he was either going to die or escape this battle with

Bane and that as a symbol, Batman could continue with Blake's ascension.

So Bruce Wayne "gallivanting" all over Europe, as you put it, had a right to do so

after saving Gotham 4,003 times.

I agree with you: Bruce is clearly alive at the end. I disagree with you: it did not

detract from the film that he was alive. He let his version of Batman die so his true

version of Bruce Wayne could live.

Dauphin said:

Batman repaired the Autopilot that Lucious Fox had trouble installing on The Bat. That was our first clue that Batman could have jumped ship at anytime. Then the repaired Bat Signal, understanding that somebody would be willing to take on the cape and cowl. Then, the clincher, the actual sighting of him and Selina Kyle in italy.

I did not like the movie. The storyline was pretty good for a 2.5 hour movie that had to tie up a ton of things.

I just did not like the rhythm - the pacing seemed very disjointed

The mouth breathing Batman - Is this Batman or Rambo

Bane's backstory came way too late for me to care - I don't see how it could have been revealed any earlier, but we never really know what his motivation is. That could be done in a way that is frightening, like the Joker, but we kept being misdirected with his motives. One minute he's simply a hired gun, the next, he's a NWO/Occupy terrorist, eventually he's still a hired gun for the Al'Ghul family.

For a 2.5 hour movie, there wasn't a lot of Batman.

I disliked how the Bat-Tanks were so easily dispatched.

Bane breaking Batman's back was not given the proper treatment.

I did like Hathaway's Catwoman, though. Sans the "oh yeah I know how to drive the Bat-cycle no problem" trope, she performed way better than I expected.

That said, I was not sold on her and Wayne's relationship at all.

I did love the character of Talia. That was exactly pitch perfect.

Once again, Alfred steals every scene he is in. Much love to Michael Caine.

I agree with 90% of this. The last 10% I do disagree with isn't worth mentioning.

First off I love this review... Saw the movie last night with a couple of friends. But I'll add on this

duccichucka said:

I saw this last night. It was the first time I debated whether or not to see a movie

on back to back nights. Not because it was so awesome, but just because I felt

as if I went on an epic ride and wanted to feel like I finished a book or something.

The Lord of The Rings trilogy does not compare to what Nolan did here with this

franchise. I have KnightFall which tells the story of how Bane does arrive on the

Gotham scene to eventually become the man who "broke the bat" and I think

Nolan's interpretation of that arc was pretty nice.

The scene where Bane beats the fuck outta Batman was horrifying, beautiful and

sad at the same time. I could barely watch it but had to watch Batman finally

get pummeled like he does in the comic. It was brutal.

Yeah I couldn't watch that. That was heartbreaking.

The problems I had with this flick were:

1. The editing wasn't so great. The story didn't seem to have a congruous or

easy flow to it. It jumped from moment to moment without the characters or

the dialogue providing any needed context. Gordon and Fox, who provide

the gravitas needed for a comic book film didn't get enough screen time to

give part three the nobility needed to counterbalance all the anarchy, violence

and chaos that permeated the film.

Yeah I noticed that. Especially Fox. I was very disappointed in that. Also when Alfred just up and leaves. We don't know where he goes, but he comes back at the end of the film just randomly to grieve the loss of Bruce. I would've liked to see more screen time given to both of them.

2. Bane's voice was obnoxious at first. But for all his intellect and brawn, he

turns out to be just a glorified bodyguard? Meh. Nolan should have spent a little

more time exploring the Miranda/Talia (who, in the comics, comes to love Batman

and they even have a son, if I'm not mistaken) character.

Their hook up just seemed so random in the film. I would've preffered if they developed that more or got rid of it completely.

3. John Blake got a little too much time in the movie if Nolan is not going to

reboot the franchise with Blake as ROBIN (which I think Nolan did a pretty

good job at establishing), especially with the bridge scene. That was unnecessary;

we already knew that Blake was heroic. I initially thought that Blake was going

to be Jean Paul Valley but realized that was stupid of me as soon as we find out

that Blake was an orphan (which screamed out "I'm ROBIN, people!"

YES! I know Robin is Dick Greyson...but come on...

I liked him, I really did. Just I was like...where are they going with this? Nightwing, Robin, new Batman, what!???

4. Bane's demise came so quickly with the largest amount of anti-climaticism I've

ever witnessed in film. And Frozone was right: villains spend too much time

monologing: shut the fuck up and get the job done, you arrogant-love-to-hear-

your-own-pontificating-voice-dipshit.

Bam. That guy deserved the classic 90's ending of being blown to smithereens. And in the end he's not really the mastermind?? Good twist, but it just didnt fit together well in the film. That's just me.

SPOILER ALERT:

There is no way that Wayne/Bats was in The Bat when it took away the nuclear bomb

or why did Nolan go through all that trouble with having Fox mention the autopilot

twice in previous scenes before finally realizing that it was in fact operational and that

Bruce Wayne was responsible for it. But again, the editing is so quick, that the scene

where Alfred acknowledges Bruce in Italy (?) is over so quick that you don't get a

chance to let it soak in that BRUCE IS STILL ALIVE.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!! It was so fleeting I had to do a double take! And I couldn't!!!

But other than that, I really liked the movie. I had a wonderful time watching it and I wonder now if there will be another movie. I never trust Hollywood when they say it's "The End"...it never really is.

duccichucka said:

SUPRMAN said:

Bruce Wayne has to be dead, and there had to have been a body.

They could not have read the will and disposed of his belongings without a body.

Legally, it takes seven years after a disappearance and NO sightings to declare a person dead.

That's why I think Alfred was dreaming the encounter in Italy.

How was the will read if there were no body? The only other option would be to identify Bruce Wayne as Batman and confirm Batman is dead.

When Bruce was on his personal discovery mission, after seven years he was legally declared dead. Here he hasn't been legally declared dead and seven years have not passed.

Dude, you make no sense.

If Bruce Wayne/Batman was in the Bat when that bomb exploded - that nuclear bomb -

do you really think they would have recovered a body?! Hell no! Never in the history

of humankind weaponry has a body been recovered after it has been obliterated. It

would defy the laws of physics. There could not have been a body in that grave - that

would be impossible.

This alone renders the rest of your post moot.

I want to see it again anyway, so we'll see if a second viewing can clear things up for me.

SUPRMAN said:

duccichucka said:

Dude, you make no sense.

If Bruce Wayne/Batman was in the Bat when that bomb exploded - that nuclear bomb -

do you really think they would have recovered a body?! Hell no! Never in the history

of humankind weaponry has a body been recovered after it has been obliterated. It

would defy the laws of physics. There could not have been a body in that grave - that

would be impossible.

This alone renders the rest of your post moot.

I want to see it again anyway, so we'll see if a second viewing can clear things up for me.

The funny thing is, is that I would like to see it again and could probably come away

with an entirely different take on it!

I'm going to see this. Spiderman, I never got in to. Superman, eh, maybe, the last one I fell asleep on. But I got sucked all the way in by the Dark Knight so I'll end up going to this.

morningsong said:

I'm going to see this. Spiderman, I never got in to. Superman, eh, maybe, the last one I fell asleep on. But I got sucked all the way in by the Dark Knight so I'll end up going to this.

I don't understand the Superman thing either. The guy can literally do anything, including turn back time (first Superan movie)....so where's the peril? Where's the exictement? Baffles me how they've managed to get so many decades of stories for him when he's pretty much indestructible....there's only so many stories you can wring out of the kryptonite angle!

DaveT said:

morningsong said:

I'm going to see this. Spiderman, I never got in to. Superman, eh, maybe, the last one I fell asleep on. But I got sucked all the way in by the Dark Knight so I'll end up going to this.

I don't understand the Superman thing either. The guy can literally do anything, including turn back time (first Superan movie)....so where's the peril? Where's the exictement? Baffles me how they've managed to get so many decades of stories for him when he's pretty much indestructible....there's only so many stories you can wring out of the kryptonite angle!

Oh I get Superman, it's just that today those ideals are not admired as much, there must be a new spin I think, the last one just didn't do it for me, perhaps the new one will, who knows. Dark Knight seem to latch into the more modern imagination better.

728huey said:

SUPRMAN said:

Selena wasn't wearing the pearls in Italy.

I don't know how he got far enough away without being seen bailing out. He didn't have that much time to dispose of it. Unless he was never in it from the beginning.

[Edited 7/22/12 17:38pm]

Remember when the little mini-explosion went off in one of the skyscrapers before the Batwing came flying by with the nuclear bomb? The bomb itself probably collided with an electrical transformer connected to the building, which makes me think that if Batman was still in the plane, he would have gone through the trouble of getting the aircraft high enough to not risk having the bomb crash into anything or at least maneuver around the tall buildings so it wouldn't hit anything before going out to sea. Since it seems all of his travel vehicles had some sort of emergency exit provisons, I would not be surprised if he ejected himself out of the Batwing before it left the city limits.

That is what I thought. It was on auto pilot that is why it ran into stuff on it's way out to sea.

I also believe the franchise will continue with Nightwing.

The scene revealing Bruce Wayne alive is real not an illusion. They should have given 60 more seconds with Alfred and Bruce interacting.

I know the trilogy is done, but will they reboot Batman to align with the Superman and Wonder Woman movies, or does this characterization still have legs?

One good thing about the TDKR is that a lot of loose ends were tightened up. It sets the stage for a Robin to take over as Batman, or to do his own thing as Nightwing. If he comes back as Nightwing, Bruce Wayne easily returns and dons the Bat Gear for a Justice League movie.

This series really seemed very isolated from the likes of Superman/Wonder Woman and until this last movie, that made sense. The Scarecrow and Joker wouldn't warrant the attention of other DC heros, but a Neutron Bomb isolating Gotham would. I guess we don't know what kind of Superman we're getting until the movie comes out, actually. It could be the "be anywhere, do anything" Superman, or more in line with the current comic incarnation that is not as all powerful as he used to be.

Dauphin said:

I know the trilogy is done, but will they reboot Batman to align with the Superman and Wonder Woman movies, or does this characterization still have legs?

One good thing about the TDKR is that a lot of loose ends were tightened up. It sets the stage for a Robin to take over as Batman, or to do his own thing as Nightwing. If he comes back as Nightwing, Bruce Wayne easily returns and dons the Bat Gear for a Justice League movie.

This series really seemed very isolated from the likes of Superman/Wonder Woman and until this last movie, that made sense. The Scarecrow and Joker wouldn't warrant the attention of other DC heros, but a Neutron Bomb isolating Gotham would. I guess we don't know what kind of Superman we're getting until the movie comes out, actually. It could be the "be anywhere, do anything" Superman, or more in line with the current comic incarnation that is not as all powerful as he used to be.

The Dark Knight is not the same as the Justice League Batman.

You would redo Batman for the Justice League.

Christian Bale said he would not do any Batman movie with Robin in it.

duccichucka said:

I saw this last night. It was the first time I debated whether or not to see a movie

on back to back nights. Not because it was so awesome, but just because I felt

as if I went on an epic ride and wanted to feel like I finished a book or something.

The Lord of The Rings trilogy does not compare to what Nolan did here with this

franchise. I have KnightFall which tells the story of how Bane does arrive on the

Gotham scene to eventually become the man who "broke the bat" and I think

Nolan's interpretation of that arc was pretty nice.

The scene where Bane beats the fuck outta Batman was horrifying, beautiful and

sad at the same time. I could barely watch it but had to watch Batman finally

get pummeled like he does in the comic. It was brutal.

The problems I had with this flick were:

1. The editing wasn't so great. The story didn't seem to have a congruous or

easy flow to it. It jumped from moment to moment without the characters or

the dialogue providing any needed context. Gordon and Fox, who provide

the gravitas needed for a comic book film didn't get enough screen time to

give part three the nobility needed to counterbalance all the anarchy, violence

and chaos that permeated the film.

2. Bane's voice was obnoxious at first. But for all his intellect and brawn, he

turns out to be just a glorified bodyguard? Meh. Nolan should have spent a little

more time exploring the Miranda/Talia (who, in the comics, comes to love Batman

and they even have a son, if I'm not mistaken) character.

3. John Blake got a little too much time in the movie if Nolan is not going to

reboot the franchise with Blake as ROBIN (which I think Nolan did a pretty

good job at establishing), especially with the bridge scene. That was unnecessary;

we already knew that Blake was heroic. I initially thought that Blake was going

to be Jean Paul Valley but realized that was stupid of me as soon as we find out

that Blake was an orphan (which screamed out "I'm ROBIN, people!"

4. Bane's demise came so quickly with the largest amount of anti-climaticism I've

ever witnessed in film. And Frozone was right: villains spend too much time

monologing: shut the fuck up and get the job done, you arrogant-love-to-hear-

your-own-pontificating-voice-dipshit.

5. The Ra's Al Ghul hallucination was goofy.

YES. These are all the things I thought were wrong. And there are more.

Like, another nuclear/atom bomb plot. Seriously!?

The auto-pilot ending was such a cop-out

Saw it in IMAX tonight.

Still convinced Bruce Wayne is dead, Batman is not.

Selena was wearing the pearls in Italy, but that wasn't real.

Alfred breaks down at the end of the memorial. Why? Not to put on a show for those who were there. They all knew Bruce Wayne as Batman.

Alfred, in the beginning only tells him it is a cafe on the Arno River in Italy.

The Arno is 150 miles long and flows through both Florence and Pisa.

How would he know what cafe, at what time?

Fox discovers later that the autopilot was fixed, but we never see Batman use it.

The bomb kept changing.

It was a nuclear bomb (4 megatons), then a neutron bomb (6 mile blast radius), then an atom bomb. Those are three distinct weapons, not interchangeable names for the same device.

I don't know that Bane is dead.

Still enjoyed it thoroughly though.

SUPRMAN said:

Saw it in IMAX tonight.

Still convinced Bruce Wayne is dead, Batman is not.

Selena was wearing the pearls in Italy, but that wasn't real.

Alfred breaks down at the end of the memorial. Why? Not to put on a show for those who were there. They all knew Bruce Wayne as Batman.

Alfred, in the beginning only tells him it is a cafe on the Arno River in Italy.

The Arno is 150 miles long and flows through both Florence and Pisa.

How would he know what cafe, at what time?

Fox discovers later that the autopilot was fixed, but we never see Batman use it.

The bomb kept changing.

It was a nuclear bomb (4 megatons), then a neutron bomb (6 mile blast radius), then an atom bomb. Those are three distinct weapons, not interchangeable names for the same device.

I don't know that Bane is dead.

Still enjoyed it thoroughly though.

C'mon man the movie seemed pretty clear about him being alive. Whats with the whole hallucination theory goin around, though I have to admit the editing is sloppy.

SUPRMAN said:

Saw it in IMAX tonight.

Still convinced Bruce Wayne is dead, Batman is not.

Selena was wearing the pearls in Italy, but that wasn't real.

Alfred breaks down at the end of the memorial. Why? Not to put on a show for those who were there. They all knew Bruce Wayne as Batman.

Alfred doesn't find out Bruce is alive until the cafe scene.

Alfred, in the beginning only tells him it is a cafe on the Arno River in Italy.

The Arno is 150 miles long and flows through both Florence and Pisa.

How would he know what cafe, at what time?

Obviously suspension of disbelief is needed. I mean, after Bruce craws out of the prison pit, how does he find his way back? He's got nothing on him, etc.

Fox discovers later that the autopilot was fixed, but we never see Batman use it.

We also never see batman escape, but this doesn't mean that he didn't. This is a trick used to make the audience asume the worse. We never see Gandalf's struggles to come back to Middle Earth after he falls into the depths with the fire breathing thingy. (at least not until a future movie).

The bomb kept changing.

It was a nuclear bomb (4 megatons), then a neutron bomb (6 mile blast radius), then an atom bomb. Those are three distinct weapons, not interchangeable names for the same device.

I don't know that Bane is dead.

Still enjoyed it thoroughly though.

I don't think Alfred imagined the scene, because this would make the scene Superflous anyway--and it would make the original fantasy he had seem awkward when spliced in. I think the scene actually happened. Else, it wouldn't have been added.

The dreamy quality of the scene may have been a consession sinse Bale wanted to end his involvement with Batman, but the studio may want to hold on to possible future installments (money talks). Either way, it was ambigous, but I lean towards it being real.

As far as Bane surviving, his primary motivation in protecting whats-her-face is now gone, and I'm not sure he's got an interesting enough back-story to pull off future installments.

Ultimatley, I'd like to see them leave this alone and not continue it--but, that's HIGLY doubtful.