GoldDolphin said:

Damn how much more proof does people want that he's bi? Y'all want a picture or something? Seriously

These motherfuckers want a porno to leak or something, the way they're going with it. Jesus Christ!

WaterInYourBath said:

In my opinion, this guy is lying. If he was anyone else, I'd probably believe him, but not this dude. And I can bet Tyler, The Creator set this whole scheme up. "Wolf" has the type of mind for this, with an actor who has the perfect, blank face and demeanor for the role.

Instead of deceptively pretending to be interested in women, as other men in music/Hollywood have done for years in the past when any orientation other than heterosexual could destroy a career, this Ocean character is pretending to be homosexual, since now, that's where the media and sales are. It's the type of plan that reminds me of something comical Prince said and acted upon in 1985: "I want that Duran Duran money."

And as expected after "revealing" this, with that farcical blog letter (probably written by Tyler, lol), Frank's Twitter followers quadrupled in less that 12 hours or so, I bet his YouTube video views have skyrocketed, that boring, upcoming Music Soulchild-sounding album is going to be platinum, and watch: You'll never see him involved with a man. Or, if you do, it's going to be with some "Odd" dude that's not believable. This script inversion is still beguiling nonetheless, but totally brilliant, as I don't think it's been done before.

Of course people will ask: "What man would fake being homosexual?" My answer: One who has secret romantic relationships with women in private, but is now making those hefty out-of-the-closet checks in public. The "DL" in reverse, but with nothing to lose.

On another forum, someone posted that "it wasn't brave" for Frank to come out and that most people "don't care" about people's sexuality and that it wasn't "A Rosa Parks moment".

This was my response.

It was brave. How many out-of-the-closet males are there in contemporary hip-hop and R&B? With Frank and Syd both being openly gay I would say that OFWGKTA are now THE most progressive group in hip-hop. I already thought they were artistically anyway.

In liberal communities like you and I live in, of course we don't care. We understand it doesn't matter, but it isn't like that in all communities. Think about religious communities that are conservative. That's much of the black community in the US - Frank's main fanbase.

And while it may not be a "Rosa Parks moment" as Ocean is hardly the first openly gay black r&b singer, it's certainly considerable that he chose to do so just as his major label debut album launches - there's room to be cynical about that too, but the fact remains that as little as perhaps 10 or 15 years ago it would have almost CERTAINLY had a detrimental effect on sales. People like Luther Vandross and Queen Latifah were never able to come out of the closet because it would have damaged their careers. It's hardly a secret that Luther was gay and Queen Latifah is, but the general opinion of the time didn't allow for them be open about it.

There's some interesting points about artists such as Tracy Chapman and Me'Shell N'Degeocello not being accepted by the black community due them being lesbians. Me'Shell was one of the earliest torchbearers of what became the neosoul movement yet the credit generally gets given to her heterosexual peers - Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, etc. There's some great points about that here.

In many ways, the struggle for gay rights and gay equality IS comparable to the civil rights movement. On a Western level, gay people have less rights and are legally treated as lesser beings. On a global level there are still many countries that kill people who are gay. This is most likely going to go down in history as the defining human rights factor and paradigm shift of our generation.

So whether it's Frank Ocean coming out, Lil B releasing an album called I'm Gay (to show that "words don't mean anything" without context) or even a show like Glee having openly gay characters in the main cast and storylines that deal with their issues as well as those of the straight characters...... these things weren't happening on a mainstream level to such a high degree in previous decades.

So you can't downplay it as not being brave or think that it's not going to be an issue or talking point for people. That's not giving the move the credit it deserves. It may not deserve as much discussion as it is warranting, on it's own..... but it's indicative of a large-scale and long overdue paradigm shift that frankly should be discussed - and heralded - as much as possible, given the fact that the struggle for equal rights for gay people is something that is ongoing. Just as we look down on the people of the mid-20th century for inhumane treatment of minorities, future generations will look down upon THIS society for continued homophobia and discrimination. It's a total indictment on humanity as a whole and hopefully within 15-20 years won't be an issue for anyone.

SeventeenDayze said:

WaterInYourBath said:

In my opinion, this guy is lying. If he was anyone else, I'd probably believe him, but not this dude. And I can bet Tyler, The Creator set this whole scheme up. "Wolf" has the type of mind for this, with an actor who has the perfect, blank face and demeanor for the role.

Instead of deceptively pretending to be interested in women, as other men in music/Hollywood have done for years in the past when any orientation other than heterosexual could destroy a career, this Ocean character is pretending to be homosexual, since now, that's where the media and sales are. It's the type of plan that reminds me of something comical Prince said and acted upon in 1985: "I want that Duran Duran money."

And as expected after "revealing" this, with that farcical blog letter (probably written by Tyler, lol), Frank's Twitter followers quadrupled in less that 12 hours or so, I bet his YouTube video views have skyrocketed, that boring, upcoming Music Soulchild-sounding album is going to be platinum, and watch: You'll never see him involved with a man. Or, if you do, it's going to be with some "Odd" dude that's not believable. This script inversion is still beguiling nonetheless, but totally brilliant, as I don't think it's been done before.

Of course people will ask: "What man would fake being homosexual?" My answer: One who has secret romantic relationships with women in private, but is now making those hefty out-of-the-closet checks in public. The "DL" in reverse, but with nothing to lose.

Seriously?

Militant said:

A lot of interesting, positive, on point stuff.

But good luck with that, 'cause folks be trippin' in this thread.

SeventeenDayze said:

WaterInYourBath said:

In my opinion, this guy is lying. If he was anyone else, I'd probably believe him, but not this dude. And I can bet Tyler, The Creator set this whole scheme up. "Wolf" has the type of mind for this, with an actor who has the perfect, blank face and demeanor for the role.

Instead of deceptively pretending to be interested in women, as other men in music/Hollywood have done for years in the past when any orientation other than heterosexual could destroy a career, this Ocean character is pretending to be homosexual, since now, that's where the media and sales are. It's the type of plan that reminds me of something comical Prince said and acted upon in 1985: "I want that Duran Duran money."

And as expected after "revealing" this, with that farcical blog letter (probably written by Tyler, lol), Frank's Twitter followers quadrupled in less that 12 hours or so, I bet his YouTube video views have skyrocketed, that boring, upcoming Music Soulchild-sounding album is going to be platinum, and watch: You'll never see him involved with a man. Or, if you do, it's going to be with some "Odd" dude that's not believable. This script inversion is still beguiling nonetheless, but totally brilliant, as I don't think it's been done before.

Of course people will ask: "What man would fake being homosexual?" My answer: One who has secret romantic relationships with women in private, but is now making those hefty out-of-the-closet checks in public. The "DL" in reverse, but with nothing to lose.

Y'all is killing me in here.

EXCELLENT post, Militant.

Thank you Militant (though he said he was bi lol).

SeventeenDayze said:

WaterInYourBath said:

In my opinion, this guy is lying. If he was anyone else, I'd probably believe him, but not this dude. And I can bet Tyler, The Creator set this whole scheme up. "Wolf" has the type of mind for this, with an actor who has the perfect, blank face and demeanor for the role.

Instead of deceptively pretending to be interested in women, as other men in music/Hollywood have done for years in the past when any orientation other than heterosexual could destroy a career, this Ocean character is pretending to be homosexual, since now, that's where the media and sales are. It's the type of plan that reminds me of something comical Prince said and acted upon in 1985: "I want that Duran Duran money."

And as expected after "revealing" this, with that farcical blog letter (probably written by Tyler, lol), Frank's Twitter followers quadrupled in less that 12 hours or so, I bet his YouTube video views have skyrocketed, that boring, upcoming Music Soulchild-sounding album is going to be platinum, and watch: You'll never see him involved with a man. Or, if you do, it's going to be with some "Odd" dude that's not believable. This script inversion is still beguiling nonetheless, but totally brilliant, as I don't think it's been done before.

Of course people will ask: "What man would fake being homosexual?" My answer: One who has secret romantic relationships with women in private, but is now making those hefty out-of-the-closet checks in public. The "DL" in reverse, but with nothing to lose.

Your responses are very interesting.

I have a theory about it.

It seems you have trouble with Frank Ocean coming out as gay/bisexual. However, it's not political correct to attack him for being gay. Therefore you direct your irritation in a different way. You acuse him of not being gay, however wanting to sell his records. So, you found a way to degrade this black gay man, in a passive-aggresive indirect way.

Other theory:

You are very ignorant about the history of the struggles gay people had and the issues they still are dealing with on a daily bases. Your reaction proofs that gay people still are not treated equally compared to straight people.

Another:

You have limited knowledge about the subject, and this statement is merely a reflection of your ignorance.

Militant said:

On another forum, someone posted that "it wasn't brave" for Frank to come out and that most people "don't care" about people's sexuality and that it wasn't "A Rosa Parks moment".

This was my response.

It was brave. How many out-of-the-closet males are there in contemporary hip-hop and R&B? With Frank and Syd both being openly gay I would say that OFWGKTA are now THE most progressive group in hip-hop. I already thought they were artistically anyway.

In liberal communities like you and I live in, of course we don't care. We understand it doesn't matter, but it isn't like that in all communities. Think about religious communities that are conservative. That's much of the black community in the US - Frank's main fanbase.

And while it may not be a "Rosa Parks moment" as Ocean is hardly the first openly gay black r&b singer, it's certainly considerable that he chose to do so just as his major label debut album launches - there's room to be cynical about that too, but the fact remains that as little as perhaps 10 or 15 years ago it would have almost CERTAINLY had a detrimental effect on sales. People like Luther Vandross and Queen Latifah were never able to come out of the closet because it would have damaged their careers. It's hardly a secret that Luther was gay and Queen Latifah is, but the general opinion of the time didn't allow for them be open about it.

There's some interesting points about artists such as Tracy Chapman and Me'Shell N'Degeocello not being accepted by the black community due them being lesbians. Me'Shell was one of the earliest torchbearers of what became the neosoul movement yet the credit generally gets given to her heterosexual peers - Erykah Badu, Jill Scott, etc. There's some great points about that here.

In many ways, the struggle for gay rights and gay equality IS comparable to the civil rights movement. On a Western level, gay people have less rights and are legally treated as lesser beings. On a global level there are still many countries that kill people who are gay. This is most likely going to go down in history as the defining human rights factor and paradigm shift of our generation.

So whether it's Frank Ocean coming out, Lil B releasing an album called I'm Gay (to show that "words don't mean anything" without context) or even a show like Glee having openly gay characters in the main cast and storylines that deal with their issues as well as those of the straight characters...... these things weren't happening on a mainstream level to such a high degree in previous decades.

So you can't downplay it as not being brave or think that it's not going to be an issue or talking point for people. That's not giving the move the credit it deserves. It may not deserve as much discussion as it is warranting, on it's own..... but it's indicative of a large-scale and long overdue paradigm shift that frankly should be discussed - and heralded - as much as possible, given the fact that the struggle for equal rights for gay people is something that is ongoing. Just as we look down on the people of the mid-20th century for inhumane treatment of minorities, future generations will look down upon THIS society for continued homophobia and discrimination. It's a total indictment on humanity as a whole and hopefully within 15-20 years won't be an issue for anyone.

Well stated and I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Timmy84 said:

vainandy said:

I'm going to come out as straight a little later on.

Militant said:

Timmy84 said:

Cerebus said:

WaterInYourBath said:

In my opinion, this guy is lying. If he was anyone else, I'd probably believe him, but not this dude. And I can bet Tyler, The Creator set this whole scheme up. "Wolf" has the type of mind for this, with an actor who has the perfect, blank face and demeanor for the role.

Instead of deceptively pretending to be interested in women, as other men in music/Hollywood have done for years in the past when any orientation other than heterosexual could destroy a career, this Ocean character is pretending to be homosexual, since now, that's where the media and sales are. It's the type of plan that reminds me of something comical Prince said and acted upon in 1985: "I want that Duran Duran money."

And as expected after "revealing" this, with that farcical blog letter (probably written by Tyler, lol), Frank's Twitter followers quadrupled in less than 12 hours or so, I bet his YouTube video views have skyrocketed, that boring, upcoming Music Soulchild-sounding album is going to be platinum, and watch: You'll never see him involved with a man. Or, if you do, it's going to be with some "Odd" dude that's not believable. This script inversion is still beguiling nonetheless, but totally brilliant, as I don't think it's been done before.

Of course people will ask: "What man would fake being homosexual?" My answer: One who has secret romantic relationships with women in private, but is now making those hefty out-of-the-closet checks in public. The "DL" in reverse, but with nothing to lose.

Seriously?

Yes seriously, in my perspective. If I'm correct, there is indeed nothing to lose in this type of reversal, considering, looking at Twitter, the majority of Ocean's audience are heterosexual women and homosexual men:

1) The heterosexual women aren't going anywhere, as most will remain loyal if they've been fans already, regardless of his orientation. For instance, it's like if Johnny Depp suddenly announced he is homosexual. I and most other girls/women would think, "well, that's.....shocking, but he's still gorgeous and uniquely skilled onscreen, so I'm going to continue watching and enjoying his movies. The fact that he's attracted to men and has deceived several women doesn't matter to my ocular receptors." Thus, Frank hasn't lost his ladies or even groupies, and never will. Money.

2) He certainly hasn't lost the homosexual men who've been [hopeful] viewers of his material, since most of them are overjoyed and defensive for him now (proven by numerous responses on YouTube, different blogs, and this thread), with thousands more who were unaware of Frank Ocean now jumping into his fan wagon after this new "come out" bonanza. They're now saying - "Go buy his album! He's the greatest male singer out today!" - type of stuff. More money.

3) Homosexual women probably didn't care about him before this news, but now that this "revelation" adds more support to their general cause, thousands of them will proclaim to "follow" and be monetarily supportive of his work as well, even if they don't like all of the music. Again, loyal to what they love, and also overly defensive. No loss there. Way more money.

4) Regarding heterosexual men, I would say the percentage of them being fans of Frank is so negligible, the addition to or deduction of this group is insignificant in his overall accumulation of sales/views/"followers." So since they're kinda expendable in this case, any loss of them will not be impactful, especially considering they would only download his music without paying anyway.

5) Also, aside from all of the gains above, these Odd Future dudes have no belief in God or respect for any religion, therefore "backlash" from any Christian communities, for example, would not matter to them in any way, and their retorts would only give them even more popularity in this new "pro-atheist" era. Instead of worrying about churches lambasting their music, they're the types who would record themselves burning Bibles naked with artillery and decapitated animals in retaliation. No concern, no loss.

This is all basic generalization based on, again, my own analysis, and recent interest in Tyler, The Creator's strange artistic thought process, which could conceive something like this. However, this will absolutely anger some contentious, likely non-heterosexual person ready to pop in this thread. And when it does, oh well. That's not my problem, as clearly, offense or opposition to whatever is not my intention, unlike the responses I've already received for my previous post. While I can chuckle at that, no one in here would appreciate the replies I could give for what I consider to be "ignorant" in here. Yet, I'm not going to do that. Not anymore; it's pointless in this forum. Believe what you believe with your supporters, and I'm going to do the same whether anyone agrees or not.

I've met Tyler a few times and talked to him at length. Hodgy and Domo too, and Syd. And I've been a fan since before Goblin even dropped, before any of them had major label deals.

There is absolutely no fucking way that this is some sort of "stunt" or "ruse" and neither it is likely that Tyler had ANYTHING to do with it. Frank as a solo artist is different to OF as a group. Yes, Tyler, Hodgy and more are open atheists/anti-theists, but Frank isn't.

Did you not hear his two songs on the Jay-Z/Kanye album? Both dealt with Jesus and spirituality in their lyrics. He's not coming from the same perspective as Ty and Hodgy etc.

But that's all irrelevant. The fact remains that you'd have to be smoking crack to think Frank is being anything other than completely honest here.

Who is Frank Ocean - and why should I care who he fucks?

Militant said:

I've met Tyler a few times and talked to him at length. Hodgy and Domo too, and Syd. And I've been a fan since before Goblin even dropped, before any of them had major label deals.

There is absolutely no fucking way that this is some sort of "stunt" or "ruse" and neither it is likely that Tyler had ANYTHING to do with it. Frank as a solo artist is different to OF as a group. Yes, Tyler, Hodgy and more are open atheists/anti-theists, but Frank isn't.

Did you not hear his two songs on the Jay-Z/Kanye album? Both dealt with Jesus and spirituality in their lyrics. He's not coming from the same perspective as Ty and Hodgy etc.

But that's all irrelevant. The fact remains that you'd have to be smoking crack to think Frank is being anything other than completely honest here.

You're right, but isnt Frank agnostic? Also when it comes to Frank and Tylers views on religion, it's understandable because Frank is from the south (more religious and more conservative even tho NOLA is more open with gay people) and Tyler is from California, where religion isnt as important (more liberal). Also Tyler grew up seeing the hypocracy of church people, and even tho that happens in the south too, - it's very often hidden and since people are generally more conservative they dismiss any critique towards any religious institution...

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

People just assume she is.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

People just assume she is.

I don't think she is!

Now this is in my head:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

People just assume she is.

Right.

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

Indeed she is.

She has a long relationship in the 90's with feminist writer Alice Walker and is apparently dating an actress named Guinevere Turner at the moment.

http://www.spokeo.com/Tra...her+Photos

[Edited 7/7/12 6:58am]

Militant said:

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

Indeed she is.

She has a long relationship in the 90's with feminist writer Alice Walker and is apparently dating an actress named Guinevere Turner at the moment.

http://www.spokeo.com/Tra...her+Photos

[Edited 7/7/12 6:58am]

I love your love for facts!

Militant said:

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

Indeed she is.

She has a long relationship in the 90's with feminist writer Alice Walker and is apparently dating an actress named Guinevere Turner at the moment.

http://www.spokeo.com/Tra...her+Photos

[Edited 7/7/12 6:58am]

It seems Tracy strikes me like a Billy Preston - one who is openly gay but refuses to discuss it to a nosy public.

Militant said:

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

Indeed she is.

She has a long relationship in the 90's with feminist writer Alice Walker and is apparently dating an actress named Guinevere Turner at the moment.

http://www.spokeo.com/Tra...her+Photos

[Edited 7/7/12 6:58am]

But she never came out, correct? So really...

Timmy84 said:

Militant said:

Indeed she is.

She has a long relationship in the 90's with feminist writer Alice Walker and is apparently dating an actress named Guinevere Turner at the moment.

http://www.spokeo.com/Tra...her+Photos

[Edited 7/7/12 6:58am]

It seems Tracy strikes me like a Billy Preston - one who is openly gay but refuses to discuss it to a nosy public.

That is what I really like about the coming out of several famous people now.

Because they state it matter of factly, on their own terms, they don't need to discuss it with a nosy public. In that way it is no fun anymore for gossip magazines/blogs to 'out' people.

Being gay these days seems to get separated from that sleeze and dirt that was associated with it. I hope Tracy doesn't 'hide' it because she is afraid of reactions of others.

^ Or maybe, just maybe, she don't want no one in her business period. That's how Billy and Luther was. They never came off looking "straight" either because they knew they weren't "about that life".

vainandy said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Who else is gonna come out by the end of the day?

I'm going to come out as straight a little later on.

Militant said:

Cinny said:

Militant, I did not know Tracy Chapman was a lesbian.

Indeed she is.

She has a long relationship in the 90's with feminist writer Alice Walker and is apparently dating an actress named Guinevere Turner at the moment.

http://www.spokeo.com/Tra...her+Photos

[Edited 7/7/12 6:58am]

As in Colour Purple Alice?

alphastreet said:

Militant said:

Indeed she is.

She has a long relationship in the 90's with feminist writer Alice Walker and is apparently dating an actress named Guinevere Turner at the moment.

http://www.spokeo.com/Tra...her+Photos

[Edited 7/7/12 6:58am]

As in Colour Purple Alice?

The very same.