I have a question about optimal sleep habits for good health. Perhaps someone could help to find answer.

Take into consideration this first: I heard a "sleep professional" discussing on a TV show that the optimal way to set your body's internal sleep clock is to get up every morning at the same time and to get 8 hours of sleep per night. For example, if you go to bed at 11pm every night and get up at 7am every morning that is optimal. This way you naturally get tired around 11pm and naturally wake up at 7am.

The argument of the average person needing 8 hours (or 7 or 6) is not too relevant to my question, but it's still important. Let's just say the magic number is 8 hours for this discussion.

Now, here is the part concerning my situation. I am a bartender. I work Thursday-Sunday nights. I get home and in bed around 3am. So, for my situation, to get 8 hours every night I should sleep until 11am.

That's fine and dandy, but suppose on my non-work days (Mon, Tues, Wed) I'd like to get up earlier, say 8am, to get more done in the day. To do this while still getting my 8 hours I would need to go to sleep the night before at midnight.

This is not that difficult to do, but on the topic of OPTIMAL SLEEP HABITS, would this be a bit like a roller coaster ride to my sleep schedule: 3 days getting up early, then 4 days getting up late, then repeat every week. It wouldn't lend itself to a regular pattern where my body would get used to waking up at the same time every morning. It'd be a bit like jet lag. Sure, I'd get used to waking up at 8am by Tuesday, but Monday would be a real pain.

So, the question is, is this zig-zagging of sleep patterns healthy in the long-run, or should I just resolve to wake up at 11am every morning, even on my off days? If I do this I will also be staying up till 3am every night.

(I pose this question because I really want to practice good, optimal habits in life. I hear about people who consistently get up at the break of dawn and accomplish so much in life. "The early bird gets the worm." Unfortunately for me, I have a job which requires me to stay up until 3am. I could get up at 8am but I'd be a sleep-deprived zombie. That is only 5 hours of sleep, and while I CAN do that physically, I believe it's bad for the body over a long period of time. Thanks, for reading and I'd love to have some discussion on this topic.)

(Also, I know I don't really have it bad. Nurses and doctors working alternating shifts must have it the toughest. I wonder how they acquire optimal sleep patterns. Is the body not designed for crazy sleep schedules?)

[Edited 6/19/12 22:40pm]

That is not something I could keep up. And as I get older, I am not able to sleep in like I used to.

I have late nights, and I still get up at 9-10 at the latest. So the late nights fuck me up. I imagine it would not be good for you either, in the long run.

But in the short run, if you can change your sleep/wake time like that, I don't see why you shouldn't

NDRU said:

That is not something I could keep up. And as I get older, I am not able to sleep in like I used to.

I have late nights, and I still get up at 9-10 at the latest. So the late nights fuck me up. I imagine it would not be good for you either, in the long run.

But in the short run, if you can change your sleep/wake time like that, I don't see why you shouldn't

Thanks for your response. I wonder if you need LESS sleep as you get older. My grandfather goes to bed pretty late sometimes and still manages to get up early and be wide awake and fresh all day.

The late nights do mess me up, but only IF I get up early. Like I said, on my worknights I can be in bed by 3am. So, isn't it all relative if I get up at 11am?

I suppose my post is pretty wordy, but my main question is if it is a bad idea to change my sleep/wake times once a week, though still getting 8 hours of sleep each night.

And when I say "bad idea" I just mean is it not good in the long run for the most optimal health? Of course, I know it's not going to kill me to do it, but if I wanted to do the exact best thing what would be the way to go?

If you are sleeping a full 8 hours, I don't think it could really be that bad, no

However, some people think it's not just the amount you sleep, but how and when. Maybe because darkness causes chemical changes that make you want to sleep. So it's more natural to sleep at certain times than others.

So maybe it's not optimal, perhaps, but new parents never sleep at all, so...

I remember when I did stay up late and sleep until 12, I did not feel very rested. I think there is a reason we tend to sleep from 10-6 or 12-8. That is when it's dark

i read somewhere that we should not sleep more than 9 hours. i take melatonin at night before bed, helps me sleep like a baby, sound asleep for many hours.

berniejobs said:

So, the question is, is this zig-zagging of sleep patterns healthy in the long-run, or should I just resolve to wake up at 11am every morning, even on my off days?

I am a firm believer in routine. That said, on my days off, I don't set an alarm. I feel great and the only occasional trouble I have is when I fall back asleep late in the day (making it difficult to sleep at night and, ergo, making me tired as fuck the next day).

Sleep is very important. When my son was first born I read a lot about sleep. I think many of our health problems these days come from a lack of sleep. We have more distractions than ever and more cases of insomnia than ever.

We are on the go more now than ever and do not give our bodies the proper rest.

I read that you have to train/teach children to have healthy sleep habits. I imagine many parents have a problem doing that when most adults don't have healthy sleep habits.

I sleep about 6.5 hours a night. If i sleep 8 hours, I'm a bit grouchy. If I sleep anymore I am in an absolutely terrible mood.

I think 7.5 is probaby what I should be getting, but I never can seem to get it. I get 6.5, then I wake up, and morning being my favorite part of the day, I'm up and running around early. I love having the city to myself in the morning.

That's one of my absolutey favorite things about Miami South Beach......them son of a bitches dont wake up until aboug 1 PM....I have South Beach ALL...TO...MYSELF... in the morning.

Bangkok--not so much....It's noisy by 8 AM.

imago said:

Bangkok--not so much....It's noisy by 8 AM.

Yes, and they say the Asian cultures are more productive in general because most people tend to get up super early and start working.

Shanti0608 said:

Sleep is very important.

...Oh, and...SHANTI!!!

Sleep is of the highest importance to me, for real, and getting a good night’s sleep is one of my top factors in my mental and physical health.

These days I go to bed when I’m tired (usually between 9 and 10), wake up without an alarm (usually between 5-5:30) and generally get 7-8 hours a night. If I stay up later on weekends I often can't sleep in and am up by 6 anyway. It's just lost sleep. Unless I take a nap later in the afternoon.

For optimal health, I’d go with the set schedule of getting up at the same time every day. But hey, that’s what I do anyway, so it’s easy for me to say.

berniejobs said:

NDRU said:

That is not something I could keep up. And as I get older, I am not able to sleep in like I used to.

I have late nights, and I still get up at 9-10 at the latest. So the late nights fuck me up. I imagine it would not be good for you either, in the long run.

But in the short run, if you can change your sleep/wake time like that, I don't see why you shouldn't

Thanks for your response. I wonder if you need LESS sleep as you get older. My grandfather goes to bed pretty late sometimes and still manages to get up early and be wide awake and fresh all day.

The late nights do mess me up, but only IF I get up early. Like I said, on my worknights I can be in bed by 3am. So, isn't it all relative if I get up at 11am?

I suppose my post is pretty wordy, but my main question is if it is a bad idea to change my sleep/wake times once a week, though still getting 8 hours of sleep each night.

And when I say "bad idea" I just mean is it not good in the long run for the most optimal health? Of course, I know it's not going to kill me to do it, but if I wanted to do the exact best thing what would be the way to go?

I'm pretty sure it's a documented thing that the older you get the less sleep you need and tend to get. I know my parents are the same way. I'll have to look that up.

CarrieMpls said:

berniejobs said:

Thanks for your response. I wonder if you need LESS sleep as you get older. My grandfather goes to bed pretty late sometimes and still manages to get up early and be wide awake and fresh all day.

The late nights do mess me up, but only IF I get up early. Like I said, on my worknights I can be in bed by 3am. So, isn't it all relative if I get up at 11am?

I suppose my post is pretty wordy, but my main question is if it is a bad idea to change my sleep/wake times once a week, though still getting 8 hours of sleep each night.

And when I say "bad idea" I just mean is it not good in the long run for the most optimal health? Of course, I know it's not going to kill me to do it, but if I wanted to do the exact best thing what would be the way to go?

I'm pretty sure it's a documented thing that the older you get the less sleep you need and tend to get. I know my parents are the same way. I'll have to look that up.

My parents both say they sleep less, but it doesn't make them less tired Something to look forward to!

CarrieMpls said:

berniejobs said:

Thanks for your response. I wonder if you need LESS sleep as you get older. My grandfather goes to bed pretty late sometimes and still manages to get up early and be wide awake and fresh all day.

The late nights do mess me up, but only IF I get up early. Like I said, on my worknights I can be in bed by 3am. So, isn't it all relative if I get up at 11am?

I suppose my post is pretty wordy, but my main question is if it is a bad idea to change my sleep/wake times once a week, though still getting 8 hours of sleep each night.

And when I say "bad idea" I just mean is it not good in the long run for the most optimal health? Of course, I know it's not going to kill me to do it, but if I wanted to do the exact best thing what would be the way to go?

I'm pretty sure it's a documented thing that the older you get the less sleep you need and tend to get. I know my parents are the same way. I'll have to look that up.

It's because as you get older, your hormones (not just sex hormones - all of them) get depleted - which is what messes with sleep. It's not that you need less, it's that you can't get proper sleep without your hormones being balanced. That's rarely the case for older people.

Genesia said:

CarrieMpls said:

I'm pretty sure it's a documented thing that the older you get the less sleep you need and tend to get. I know my parents are the same way. I'll have to look that up.

It's because as you get older, your hormones (not just sex hormones - all of them) get depleted - which is what messes with sleep. It's not that you need less, it's that you can't get proper sleep without your hormones being balanced. That's rarely the case for older people.

Ah. Didn't know that. I knew they tended to sleep less, but I wasn't sure about whether that was OK or not.

CarrieMpls said:

Genesia said:

It's because as you get older, your hormones (not just sex hormones - all of them) get depleted - which is what messes with sleep. It's not that you need less, it's that you can't get proper sleep without your hormones being balanced. That's rarely the case for older people.

Ah. Didn't know that. I knew they tended to sleep less, but I wasn't sure about whether that was OK or not.

I guess it depends how you define "OK." I mean...it's part and parcel of the aging process and there's really no alternative - other than supplementing damn near everything, which would be crazy expensive, very difficult to do and pose its own risks. Or dying - which is where this is all heading, anyway.

The hormone depletion is why people start to age so rapidly at a certain point - HGH, cortisol, thyroid hormones, melatonin (and others) all start to dwindle. And it's a vicious cycle - the hormones are unbalanced, so you can't sleep. But some hormones (like HGH) are made only during stage IV sleep.

Getting old ain't for sissies.

My health is all outta whack and I know that my sleep habits are shitty right now.

So which is causing which I wonder???

I was told that I should get myself checked for sleep apnea, as I seem to have many similar symptoms.

Ace said:

Shanti0608 said:

Sleep is very important.

...Oh, and...SHANTI!!!

PurpleJedi said:

I was told that I should get myself checked for sleep apnea, as I seem to have many similar symptoms.

My father has that. Don't monkey around with that shit - get thee to a testing center posthaste!:

A 2012 study has shown that hypoxia (an inadequate supply of oxygen) that characterizes sleep apnea promotes angiogenesis which increase vascular and tumor growth. Which in turn results in a 4.8 times higher incidence of cancer mortality.

[Edited 6/20/12 13:10pm]

PurpleJedi said:

My health is all outta whack and I know that my sleep habits are shitty right now.

So which is causing which I wonder???

I was told that I should get myself checked for sleep apnea, as I seem to have many similar symptoms.

It can be a vicious cycle!

A sleep study is just one night and painless. It is not fun because it is hard to sleep in such a foreign & clinical environment. My test showed that I have mild apnea and needs to be monitored. No one loves a snorey woman but not much I can do about it except try to stay healthy.

You should do it though, your health and your kids depend on it.

Insomnia is horrible and can lead you to be irritable and groggy all day.

I hope you sort out your sleep troubles soon!

Ace said:

PurpleJedi said:

I was told that I should get myself checked for sleep apnea, as I seem to have many similar symptoms.

My father has that. Don't monkey around with that shit - get thee to a testing center posthaste!:

A 2012 study has shown that hypoxia (an inadequate supply of oxygen) that characterizes sleep apnea promotes angiogenesis which increase vascular and tumor growth. Which in turn results in a 4.8 times higher incidence of cancer mortality.

...calling doctor now...

Shanti0608 said:

PurpleJedi said:

My health is all outta whack and I know that my sleep habits are shitty right now.

So which is causing which I wonder???

I was told that I should get myself checked for sleep apnea, as I seem to have many similar symptoms.

It can be a vicious cycle!

A sleep study is just one night and painless. It is not fun because it is hard to sleep in such a foreign & clinical environment. My test showed that I have mild apnea and needs to be monitored. No one loves a snorey woman but not much I can do about it except try to stay healthy.

You should do it though, your health and your kids depend on it.

Insomnia is horrible and can lead you to be irritable and groggy all day.

I hope you sort out your sleep troubles soon!

Usually I lay my head on the pillow and I am out for the night.

Recently my stress has had me up until 2 or 3AM tossing & turning, with me having to be up by 5:30AM.

Now it's weird because I can fall asleep on the sofa watching TV at 10pm just as easily as I can be up 'til 3AM watching reruns of Bizarre Foods.

I get woken up almost every morning by a yowling cat.

Now, I KNOW that can't be good for my health.

NDRU said:

I get woken up almost every morning by a yowling cat.

Now, I KNOW that can't be good for my health.

I was woken up by my toddler putting his bottle of vitamins in my face saying "I need my vitamins mommy!"

I usually hear him get out of his bed and into the pantry, this morning I didn't. Though it was only 6am.

berniejobs said: