flyorra said:

flyorra said:

i'm sure mother nature has her reasons for letting us age, everything in the universe ages and evolves, no use debating about it or making such hype surrounding it. it's a natural course of events.

Omfg, thank you. This is exactly what I was trying to say, only in half the words and way more coherent .

Also too, I think there's checks-and-balances hardwired in there somewhere that would probably prevent us from being able to stop aging anyway, and that if they tried we'd all end up dying off en masse or something, like in "I Am Legend" when the woman tried to cure cancer and it turned into some plague that killed off 90 percent of the planet.

alandail said:

Dren5 said:

How is that 'dire' for us?

What, you actually expected to live forever? I figured out a long time ago that eventually I'd die one day too and don't see it as abnormal.

Okay, you do have a point. No one can say for a fact which is the 'default' and what's 'meant' to be...but, I'm inclined to think that aging and death are natural and intended because every living thing does die, and everything that exists, eventually doesn't anymore. Everything comes to an end, that's not unique to humanity, so I'm inclined to think that it's intentional and 'by design'.

I already pointed out a few times that there is life on tihs earth that does not age and does not die because of aging. I also said in the original post that stopping aging isn't going to stop death. People will stil die because of various reasons including accidents, murder, war, natural disasters, etc.

But why should we mentally and physically decline simply because we've been alive a few decades. While you're busy living your life, time passes fast. People talk about diseses of aging, perhaps they should be viewed as symptoms of aging. Fix aging and many of those diseases stop happening.

Let's talk about a small case - aging related vision loss. Your eyes age, your ability to focus on things close to you, such as reading a book, diminishes. It's so common, it's considerd "natural". For 250 years the "solution" has been bifocals. I'm old enough now that I've experienced this. I was ready to go the bifocal route, then decided to see what other options there were. I found a supplement that reversed the aging effects on my eyes and I now have no need whatsoever for bifocals. And it only took one week to see the improvement.

They may not age in the sense that WE think of 'aging' as, but I believe that even those species they claim 'don't age', do. They're born, develop and mature into adults of their species, and eventually their bodily processes start to gradually decrease over time until they die. That's aging.

And I'm fully aware that as you get older, your eyes start to go. [Bait snip - luv4u]

And yes, it's a natural part of the biological processes. Just because it isn't pretty and you don't 'like' it, doesn't mean necessarily that it's abnormal and something that needs to be corrected or fixed. Nothing lasts forever or even stays at the top or in peak condition forever so what makes you think the human body would?

And I believe that any supplement you're taking isn't doing anything other than providing a placebo effect.

I don't understand the collective human issue/anxiety about aging and dying anyway and it's always seemed more ego-driven than anything else to me.

Dren5 - tell me, what's the difference between stopping aging, which you are so vehimently against, and reincarnation, which you apparently believe in based on your posts in the other thread? Why bother with that messy part in the middle, where you have to die and then come back as a person who loses all knowledge you gained during this lifetime? Or where your loved ones have to die and are not a part of your future life.

At 48, I've seen enough people die, including my father at 52, my wife at 42, my brother at 31 and all of my grandparents. I have two kids who 13 years later are still traumatized at losing their mother when they were 6 and 4. I've remarried and now have a combined family of 6 kids. I don't want the pain of seeing anyone else dying for a long, long time and don't want to put them through the pain of losing me for a long, long time. I think something can be done about it.

alandail said:

NDRU said:

so we could have a world of baby geniuses? Sounds scary

I'm not sure where you got that from.

"The young so educated they never grow old" suggests everyone would stay young indefinately. People would still die - accidents, murder, war, yet uncured disease, etc. I'm defining young as in late 20s, early 30s physcial/mental prime of life. Why should your abilities decline just because you are 50, 60, 70 or even 100+ years old? At that point, why shouldn't your life experiences make you even better at living?

but if you're suggesting that aging is a disease, then a two year old is less healthy than an infant. And with them "so educated" you can see the logical conclusion. A world of Stewies

[Edited 5/28/12 12:51pm]

Believe it or not, one day in the very near future Our Creator, The One who causes it to become, He who has the ability to become whatever He wants, has promised mankind that just because Adam&Eve didn't fulfill His purpose which is perfection, certainly does not mean there's no hope of educating, reversing and eradicating what our first parents put all of us under. Sin. No literal streets of gold, but life then will be so fine, who needs gold. Afterall, all that glitters ain't gold.

Alright, I've thought about it and this is what I came up with.

To put it short: yes, I think aging is some kind of illness which can be cured by securing everlasting live. On the other hand, no, I do not think this would be advisable for humanity.

Why:

In an ideal world, we would not only live forever, but mainly know what we are living for and what our purpose is, so that we would do all the right things for ever and remain happy doing those things.

Fact is, unfortunately, our species is so fucking dumb and hasn't really evolved for more than 200,000 years. Sure, the quantity of life has changed, but the quality didn't really. I'm afraid that if we figured out a way to live for ever (or something close to that) we would be too stupid to do something proper with all the time on our hands. We would begin "selling" time and killing those who we don't find "fit enough to live and to work for our species". We would be too stupid to assure all of us lived a healthy, worthy life without ruining our own planet (just as we do now) etc etc. I think you get the picture.

I think there's a need for something big to happen to show humanity the way. Either God coming to earth and teaching us about what he really stands for and how stupid we were believing in different religions and churches and shit like that. Or another species visiting us and showing us what our purpose is in universe. Cause the way it stands now, all of us are useless cunts and we know it. We try hiding it by living our daily lives and saying we're happy working every day and watching TV in the evening. But only the idiots are happy with that.

And these idiots would rule the world if we were to live for ever, 'cause all the sane people would end up taking their own lives, still wondering what the fuck we're supposed to do in this universe.

You get my drift...?

Hypothetical question.

You are 30 or older and there is a new pill that you can take, which is made available for free on your birthday each year, that will biologically rejuvinate your body to be 5 years younger, but no younger than, say, 25 years old. Your expected future lifespan resets to that of your rejuvinated biological age. Would you take that pill? Would you want your parents, spouse, siblings, children when they are old enough, to take that pill?

have a hip replacement or take the pill

develop altzhiemers or take the pill

develop athritis or take the pill

etc, etc, etc

people spend a fortune treating aging related disease

people spend a fortune on superficial ways to look younger, makeup, hair dye, even plastic surgury

can it really be that everyone honestly would turn down the oppertunity to actually stay younger?

alandail said:

Hypothetical question.

You are 30 or older and there is a new pill that you can take, which is made available for free on your birthday each year, that will biologically rejuvinate your body to be 5 years younger, but no younger than, say, 25 years old. Your expected future lifespan resets to that of your rejuvinated biological age. Would you take that pill? Would you want your parents, spouse, siblings, children when they are old enough, to take that pill?

have a hip replacement or take the pill

develop altzhiemers or take the pill

develop athritis or take the pill

etc, etc, etc

people spend a fortune treating aging related disease

people spend a fortune on superficial ways to look younger, makeup, hair dye, even plastic surgury

can it really be that everyone honestly would turn down the oppertunity to actually stay younger?

Of course I would take it. Of course. But one day I would still kill myself, one way or another.

of course you would still die one way or another. For one, 25 year olds die every day for reasons other than aging. Then well beyond some of the things that have been mentioned in this thread, there are the larger issues that the sun won't last forever, and even if we figure out a way around that, the universe won't last forever.

Of course, but with me it's a rather personal "issue". I simply want to have control over the moment, place and manner in which I die. If a car runs me over on my way to that high building, I will seriously be gutted.

alandail said:

alandail said:

No, those species don't slow down and die from aging. They do die for other causes such as being eaten. And supplements developed through double blind studies are doing more than having a placebo effect.

Oh, I highly doubt every last living thing from those species, gets eaten at some point.

And...studies can start out one way and then as things go on, prove that the stuff they're developing, doesn't work after all. I totally wouldn't be surprised if this supplement you think is working now, either isn't at all and it's just your wishful thinking, or if it actually is, in a year or two it stops working and your eyes start to go again.

I absolutely think some things are just hard-wired into living things, and aging and death, are two of those things. You may not like it, but you don't have to. And I doubt humanity will ever figure out a way around something that was always meant to happen in the first place.

Why are you so obsessed with it anyway. So what? Get a pair of bifocals. They make some cute ones now. And judging from a lot of the old people I've known, being old doesn't seem to be THAT bad, unless you're just vain as hell and can't deal with a few wrinkles and saggy tits and balls.

alandail said:

Hypothetical question.

You are 30 or older and there is a new pill that you can take, which is made available for free on your birthday each year, that will biologically rejuvinate your body to be 5 years younger, but no younger than, say, 25 years old. Your expected future lifespan resets to that of your rejuvinated biological age. Would you take that pill? Would you want your parents, spouse, siblings, children when they are old enough, to take that pill?

have a hip replacement or take the pill

develop altzhiemers or take the pill

develop athritis or take the pill

etc, etc, etc

people spend a fortune treating aging related disease

people spend a fortune on superficial ways to look younger, makeup, hair dye, even plastic surgury

can it really be that everyone honestly would turn down the oppertunity to actually stay younger?

I'd want my family to take it, yeah - for health reasons. So they don't have to suffere through any of the shit you just named.

I'd take it for the same reason - but only IF I saw that I was starting to develop some of those conditions. Otherwise, I'd let nature take its course.

I could care less about any vanity-based effects the pill would have. I'm not that vain and really don't give a shit and don't see anything wrong with the idea of a fifty year old actually looking fifty. The idea that people actually expect folks who are old to look like teenagers is inherently asinine to me anyway.

Dren5 said:

alandail said:

No, those species don't slow down and die from aging. They do die for other causes such as being eaten. And supplements developed through double blind studies are doing more than having a placebo effect.

Oh, I highly doubt every last living thing from those species, gets eaten at some point.

And...studies can start out one way and then as things go on, prove that the stuff they're developing, doesn't work after all. I totally wouldn't be surprised if this supplement you think is working now, either isn't at all and it's just your wishful thinking, or if it actually is, in a year or two it stops working and your eyes start to go again.

I absolutely think some things are just hard-wired into living things, and aging and death, are two of those things. You may not like it, but you don't have to. And I doubt humanity will ever figure out a way around something that was always meant to happen in the first place.

Why are you so obsessed with it anyway. So what? Get a pair of bifocals. They make some cute ones now. And judging from a lot of the old people I've known, being old doesn't seem to be THAT bad, unless you're just vain as hell and can't deal with a few wrinkles and saggy tits and balls.

first of all, double blind studies show conclusively that these things work. Secondly, it's not as simple as simply wearing bifocals and forgetting about it. Age related vision loss is progressive and can lead to blindness. Anything to slow, stop or reverse that is potentially the difference between 20/20 vision and blindness later in life.

[Edited 5/28/12 17:54pm]

alandail said:

Dren5 said:

Oh, I highly doubt every last living thing from those species, gets eaten at some point.

And...studies can start out one way and then as things go on, prove that the stuff they're developing, doesn't work after all. I totally wouldn't be surprised if this supplement you think is working now, either isn't at all and it's just your wishful thinking, or if it actually is, in a year or two it stops working and your eyes start to go again.

I absolutely think some things are just hard-wired into living things, and aging and death, are two of those things. You may not like it, but you don't have to. And I doubt humanity will ever figure out a way around something that was always meant to happen in the first place.

Why are you so obsessed with it anyway. So what? Get a pair of bifocals. They make some cute ones now. And judging from a lot of the old people I've known, being old doesn't seem to be THAT bad, unless you're just vain as hell and can't deal with a few wrinkles and saggy tits and balls.

first of all, double blind studies show conclusively that these things work. Secondly, it's not as simple as simply wearing bifocals and forgetting about it. Age related vision loss is progressive and can lead to blindness. Anything to slow, stop or reverse that is potentially the difference between 20/20 vision and blindness later in life.

[Edited 5/28/12 17:54pm]

If the studies are still relatively new, means nothing. Plenty of things are tested and eventually shown to only work temporarily...they find out the shortcomings and flaws of the stuff they're researching, the longer into it they are. In short, it's too early to tell, and I'd bet money I don't have, that eventually they'll find out that this stuff is NOT permanently effective.

I really think it's hardwired into nature that aging will happen period, and that any attempts by humans to try and circumvent that natural process will either fail or have dire consequences.

I already know age-related vision loss is gradual and gets worse over time. I did not need you to 'inform' me of that. I'm not as ignorant as you apparently want to think I am. From here on out, you'd save yourself a lot of embarassment if you just assume I know everything you know, and approach me from that standpont.

And - there's a huge continuum in there between 20/20 vision and blindness. And...you and I both know that not all old people, end up blind. In fact, the vast majority don't. So don't sit here and try to give the impression that they all end up blind when in fact, most of them just end up needing a strong pair of eyeglasses, but they can definitely still SEE.

if you know it progresses and can lead to blindness, why would you suggest buying a pair of bifocals vs using a proven effective treatment. I didn't say everyone goes blind, only that it's possible if the degeneration is left unchecked. Stronger and stronger glasses only work for so long, and unless you are wearing those glasses the entire time you are awake, you have the inconvinence of worse vision than you have to have.

And some of what I said is for the benefit of others reading the discussion, don't take such offense to my fully explaining the reasons behind my thoughts. And the studies are a decade or more old.

[Edited 5/28/12 19:09pm]