prodigalfan said:

okay true enough.... bougie means more than acting "proper" speaking "proper".

To me y'all are describing acting "siddity" which is different in my mind than bourgie.

There is nothing positive about acting "siddity"

Absolutely, which speaks to the OP original post. The term bougie is misued -- even here. The term should be sued is siddity or pretentious.

ThisOne said:

morningsong said:

I wondering if you're reading it like "boogie" as in dance or "booger" as in hard piece of snot.

"boo gee" as kingbad put it, is how it sounds. Then again it might be the same word over there.

We dont use this word here esp for name calling and for this I'm glad I'm ignorant to its actual meaning

I'm sure there's another term used in your neck of the woods.

ScissorsRockPaper said:

morningsong said:

smh

wha?

Seriously? Arguing about a single slang word being divisive by using divisive archeotypes and language implying if someone isn't one type then they're obviously the other? Uh nope, try again.

morningsong said:

ScissorsRockPaper said:

wha?

Seriously? Arguing about a single slang word being divisive by using divisive archeotypes and language implying if someone isn't one type then they're obviously the other? Uh nope, try again.

I'm guessing you missed the word "stereotype" in my post. oh, well nowhere in my post did I type "one-or-the-other" as an absolute, I provided examples - while they may be somewhat exagerated archetypes they get the point across.

And, yes it is divisive: see post above. Anytime, one black speaks against another for inconsequential reasons, its hate. Hate inspired by opression but carried on by the opressed.

Blacks people are the most critical of other blacks but it all means nothing in the scheme of the world, (for example: Kardashians -- straight up "h's" however they're celebrated and making $ for it) people talk about them, do they care? And moreover, they're getting opportunities that we would never be offered in spite of what people "say" -- means nothing in a society that speaks out both sides of its mouth -- so why would we place additional burden on one another to "keep it real" ?

so it would be good if we stop putting labels on each other and accept people for who/what they are -- have some compassion for one another.

ScissorsRockPaper said:

morningsong said:

Seriously? Arguing about a single slang word being divisive by using divisive archeotypes and language implying if someone isn't one type then they're obviously the other? Uh nope, try again.

I'm guessing you missed the word "stereotype" in my post. oh, well nowhere in my post did I type "one-or-the-other" as an absolute, I provided examples - while they may be somewhat exagerated archetypes they get the point across.

And, yes it is divisive: see post above. Anytime, one black speaks against another for inconsequential reasons, its hate. Hate inspired by opression but carried on by the opressed.

Blacks people are the most critical of other blacks but it all means nothing in the scheme of the world, (for example: Kardashians -- straight up "h's" however they're celebrated and making $ for it) people talk about them, do they care? And moreover, they're getting opportunities that we would never be offered in spite of what people "say" -- means nothing in a society that speaks out both sides of its mouth -- so why would we place additional burden on one another to "keep it real" ?

so it would be good if we stop putting labels on each other and accept people for who/what they are -- have some compassion for one another.

Speaking as someone who's grown up being called "oreo" and other various terms I get part of what you're saying. Yet I still find your approach 1000x more divisive then a single word.

morningsong said:

ScissorsRockPaper said:

I'm guessing you missed the word "stereotype" in my post. oh, well nowhere in my post did I type "one-or-the-other" as an absolute, I provided examples - while they may be somewhat exagerated archetypes they get the point across.

And, yes it is divisive: see post above. Anytime, one black speaks against another for inconsequential reasons, its hate. Hate inspired by opression but carried on by the opressed.

Blacks people are the most critical of other blacks but it all means nothing in the scheme of the world, (for example: Kardashians -- straight up "h's" however they're celebrated and making $ for it) people talk about them, do they care? And moreover, they're getting opportunities that we would never be offered in spite of what people "say" -- means nothing in a society that speaks out both sides of its mouth -- so why would we place additional burden on one another to "keep it real" ?

so it would be good if we stop putting labels on each other and accept people for who/what they are -- have some compassion for one another.

Speaking as someone who's grown up being called "oreo" and other various terms I get part of what you're saying. Yet I still find your approach 1000x more divisive then a single word.

That's fair, i can understand why you find my examples divisive -- intentionally so to clarify the absurdity of the misuse of the word "bougeois". I do step further to challenge readers to think about the terms we use toward others.

Labels are fables; fables are: interpretation of a moral lesson --question is whose interpretation? whose morals?

I always thought it simply meant bourgeois, because, you know, "bourgie" is a short term for "bourgeois". And that doesn't mean rich or arrogant (like some people suggested), but simply something like a square, boring, lame middle-class citizen...

ScissorsRockPaper said:

morningsong said:

Speaking as someone who's grown up being called "oreo" and other various terms I get part of what you're saying. Yet I still find your approach 1000x more divisive then a single word.

That's fair, i can understand why you find my examples divisive -- intentionally so to clarify the absurdity of the misuse of the word "bourgeois". I do step further to challenge readers to think about the terms we use toward others.

...and we might start rectifying the word's misuse by learning how to spell it correctly.

Dave1992 said:

I always thought it simply meant bourgeois, because, you know, "bourgie" is a short term for "bourgeois". And that doesn't mean rich or arrogant (like some people suggested), but simply something like a square, boring, lame middle-class citizen...

lol @ lame... yeah I heard the same thing about bourgie meaning that. I don't know why anyone of any color would wanna be that.

ScissorsRockPaper said:

Its has become yet another divisive word in the "community" that only further divides black people and is generally spoken in a negative context by economically disadvantaged blacks when referring to middle and/or upper-class (economically) blacks.

Its akin to statements like...

"he/she thinks he/she's all that"

"who does he/she think he/she is"

"he/she trying to act white"

Truth is, however, that not all blacks have the same life experiences or economic advantages and some blacks are raised in manners consistent with higher economic lifestyles, though no fault of their own, with (tennis courts in the backyard, brand new BMW for 16th birthday, private schools, suburban living, yearly vacations, etc.), and therefore do not identify with what has unfortunately been stereotyped as "black culture" - innercity living, loud-talking, cussing with every-other-word, thug/hoochie-dressing, cutting your boyfriend/girlfriend, etc.

Black people need to give each other a break and just get real with it. And, you're right Scriptgirl, the Bourgeois, since the 18th Century, has been a label for any ruling (upper) class, that's it and still is we just make it negative like everything else we're "afraid" of.

*

[Edited 5/26/12 10:10am]

thank you....I didn't talk like everyone, my hair was a little different, my parents had a house and a car and folks was talking all kinds of shits. Damn haters.....I'm "bougie" because I didn't use slang. Bitch...that is not how we spoke in my house and I'm not going to pretend to have a background I dont have.....just sayin. If speaking in full proper sentences makes me bougie, then hate on....

Timmy84 said:

prodigalfan said:

But there is some truth to parts of this post. Truly.

Since when is it wrong to speak grammatically correct English?

I was teased relentlessly as a kid for "talkin' white" because of the way I talked.

Also, teased and called "square" by kids in my neighborhood because I went to Catholic school.

And then I overheard an adult talking about "bourgie" N-word and surmised that he was talking about Blacks who sent their kids to private schools... in other words me and mine.

Nothing pretentious about it. My mom wanted her kids to go to a school with a better education curriculum, and could not afford to move to the better neighborhoods with the better schools so she sent us to Catholic schools.

I think what the Paperscissors was saying that not all people who are accused of being bourgie are in fact bourgie. That maybe the person who has labeled the person is really covering for jealousy or low self esteemed. <---- not sure the reason why they do this.... but I assure you my mom was called bourgie by some "friends" becasue she went to college to become a professional in the 60s and wanted her kids to have a better education and not stand for the "status quo".

No one said it was nothing wrong with speaking correct English. It was the pretentious part that is why I said what I said.

Sometimes it is a pretentious act just to try to characterize others as being pretentious. It is simply straight up jealousy most of the time. A person will walk into the room and greet people and by the time they walk away the people they have greeted are talking shit because of the fly stillettos on a woman. Folk need to get the fuck over it all and learn to celebrate the accomplishments of others.

^ That shit sounded bougie as all hell.

AsherFierce said:

^ That shit sounded bougie as all hell.

Timmy84 said:

AsherFierce said:

^ That shit sounded bougie as all hell.

The thing is, when we moved to the south I got called names because I was light skinned, got good grades and talked "proper", but I wasn't called bougie because I didn't have that attitude.

Our prez is a very accomplished and urbane man but only a fool would call him bougie because he doesn't possess the pretentious attitude.

Timmy84 said:

Dave1992 said:

I always thought it simply meant bourgeois, because, you know, "bourgie" is a short term for "bourgeois". And that doesn't mean rich or arrogant (like some people suggested), but simply something like a square, boring, lame middle-class citizen...

lol @ lame... yeah I heard the same thing about bourgie meaning that. I don't know why anyone of any color would wanna be that.

A lot of people are giving the original definition but at the same time, I thought the OP was speaking more about usage.

Kind of like usage of the word gay has changed over time.

babynoz said:

Timmy84 said:

lol @ lame... yeah I heard the same thing about bourgie meaning that. I don't know why anyone of any color would wanna be that.

A lot of people are giving the original definition but at the same time, I thought the OP was speaking more about usage.

Kind of like usage of the word gay has changed over time.

Oopsie! Meant to quote Dave,

I've seen the "bougie" label thrown on people for dumb shit. I dislike when I'm around a bunch of women and they start talking shit about somebody they just met just because that person has a lighter complexion, or they are very attractive, or maybe happen to be well put together on a given day--they are "bougie".

However, I amthankful for this word. It is usually how I spot the insecure.....

KingBAD said:

prodigalfan said:

Not just that. Also the clothes you wear, your hairstyle, getting good grades and being proud of that, not laughing/encouraging others when being loud and disrespectful to adults on the bus etc.

I was asked point black as a 12 year old, why was I going to a Catholic school.... what did I think I was "too good" to go to the public school like everyone else. And this was by an ADULT. I had to defend my mother's choice to send me to a private school.

But we were not bourgie.... and not pretentious. But I am very sure that when I heard that adult later talking about "bourgie N's" he was talking about us.

Now why did he think that? BEcause my mom chose to spend her money on a private school? Because he couldn't or didn't want to do the same?

My point is, everyone who is labeled as bourgie may not in fact be bourgie. Maybe the people were MOTHERF*CKING JEALOUS and just acting like a stupid f*ck toward a kid!

Yeah, I said it!

i don't think any grown ass people should connfront kids or parents (in the presence of their kids)

about such things as this. it happens, esspeacially in large cities where hatefull folks ride the bus.

however sometimes the actions of goody goody folks can be strongly misconstrued.

my grandmother once said "i want my kids to be the best they can be so they can get away from you niggers..." my grandmother is 3/4 hungarian gypsy, and you know that didn't go over well.

i learned then that it's good to be 'upwardly mobile' long as we don't forget where we from and who we are. my grand mother made a statement that is the battle cry of those who send their kids to private school (no matter whut color they are) i want my kids to have way more than i could have

and the further from the herd the better, but i never want them to forget that the herd made it possible for them to be.

you understand? possible for them TO BE. and the herd will all ways be there and we always have

a responsibility to the herd. because we get out don't make us better.

LASTLY

anything i may say should only

fit the feet of those who

wear those shoes

you are definitely giving me cause for pause. I think I had more admiration for people who were enslaved, or those who stood up during the jim crow era. I have not had so much understanding or admiration for the hustlers and hustlettes of today. I can't understand or agree with the choice to settle for so little that life has to offer.

You just pointed out, that even though my life choices may be different than the "herd" I could not have had the opportunities without the existence of the herd. And what is good for the herd, will have a positive effect on me as well... because after all, to mainstream.... we are ALL the herd.

Thanks for that reality check.

Timmy84 said:

Let me just clarify, it's great if you do good on the come up just be reminded of who you are and where you came from and I'll respect you. Just don't act like your shit don't stink because you graduate from college. You don't see me bragging about having an associate's degree to a thug, do you?

Hey, I got over that a long time ago. The "thug" don't give a DAMN about a college degree.

babynoz said:

Ottensen said:

Basically all that showed is that homeboy really didn't understand the true connotation of the word, and just needed something bad to say about your family in order to make himself feel better about his own life choices

Exactly. That was a misuse of the word.

Well, I'm glad I check on this thread... cause all these 30 years, I have had it all wrong.

I would hear "bourgie N-word" and think of that old fool's misuse of the word.

KingBAD said:

prodigalfan said:

Not just that. Also the clothes you wear, your hairstyle, getting good grades and being proud of that, not laughing/encouraging others when being loud and disrespectful to adults on the bus etc.

I was asked point black as a 12 year old, why was I going to a Catholic school.... what did I think I was "too good" to go to the public school like everyone else. And this was by an ADULT. I had to defend my mother's choice to send me to a private school.

But we were not bourgie.... and not pretentious. But I am very sure that when I heard that adult later talking about "bourgie N's" he was talking about us.

Now why did he think that? BEcause my mom chose to spend her money on a private school? Because he couldn't or didn't want to do the same?

My point is, everyone who is labeled as bourgie may not in fact be bourgie. Maybe the people were MOTHERF*CKING JEALOUS and just acting like a stupid f*ck toward a kid!

Yeah, I said it!

i don't think any grown ass people should connfront kids or parents (in the presence of their kids)

about such things as this. it happens, esspeacially in large cities where hatefull folks ride the bus.

however sometimes the actions of goody goody folks can be strongly misconstrued.

my grandmother once said "i want my kids to be the best they can be so they can get away from you niggers..." my grandmother is 3/4 hungarian gypsy, and you know that didn't go over well.

i learned then that it's good to be 'upwardly mobile' long as we don't forget where we from and who we are. my grand mother made a statement that is the battle cry of those who send their kids to private school (no matter whut color they are) i want my kids to have way more than i could have

and the further from the herd the better, but i never want them to forget that the herd made it possible for them to be.

you understand? possible for them TO BE. and the herd will all ways be there and we always have

a responsibility to the herd. because we get out don't make us better.

LASTLY

anything i may say should only

fit the feet of those who

wear those shoes

StillGotIt said:

I've seen the "bougie" label thrown on people for dumb shit. I dislike when I'm around a bunch of women and they start talking shit about somebody they just met just because that person has a lighter complexion, or they are very attractive, or maybe happen to be well put together on a given day--they are "bougie".

However, I amthankful for this word. It is usually how I spot the insecure.....

Oh, I don't doubt that, even though that hasn't been my experience.

But using a different term like uppity or snobbish wouldn't make it any better if they were being wrongly accused anyway.

prodigalfan said:

babynoz said:

Exactly. That was a misuse of the word.

Well, I'm glad I check on this thread... cause all these 30 years, I have had it all wrong.

I would hear "bourgie N-word" and think of that old fool's misuse of the word.

We cool sis...

Thanks for sharing your experience.

babynoz said:

StillGotIt said:

I've seen the "bougie" label thrown on people for dumb shit. I dislike when I'm around a bunch of women and they start talking shit about somebody they just met just because that person has a lighter complexion, or they are very attractive, or maybe happen to be well put together on a given day--they are "bougie".

However, I amthankful for this word. It is usually how I spot the insecure.....

Oh, I don't doubt that, even though that hasn't been my experience.

But using a different term like uppity or snobbish wouldn't make it any better if they were being wrongly accused anyway.

Sadly, I feel that most, if not all of the time I've seen it happen, its just jealous folks talking shit mindlessly. Very few times has it been a label deserved. Typical crabs in a barrell.

ScissorsRockPaper said:

Timmy84 said:

For real. Comments like that are just... what? I'm convinced someone's trolling here... how can anyone wanna be respected like that? Come on...

Don't take this personally - whether you "respect" me or not is not my concern, that's up to you.

Response to some of the comments related to my post:

1. divisive? yes. Yet another "label" we use against one another to separate us. Whose to say whether someone is "bougie" or not? Maybe "they" got it like that and "you" don't? And therefore, "you" don't understand where they're coming from. Doesn't make them bad or "bougie".

2. looking down on someone? how does one "look down on someone?" perhaps it more that, that person is "looking-up" at someone? -- in other workds "projecting" they're feelings of inadequacy on someone else.

3. forgetting where one came from? really what does this mean?

4. yes, it is akin to the don't hate me becaues i'm beautiful statement because its the same hater principle, as a fine woman walks into the room she could be as nice as anyone else, nicer even --what happens? the other women start projecting their insecurities on her and all of a sudden she becomes a "b" and a "h" and she thinks this and that---same story as the bougie statement.

5. and yes, those who are "proper" or educated or even take pride in trying to "better" themselves often get labeled as "bougie"; why is that? what's wrong with that?

6. i'm of the mindset that bougie is different from saditty. I think the original poster's point is most closely related to that word. Saditty is pretentiousness, bougie is misused and a thin veil for jelousy.

Thanks prodigalfan for seeing the context of my post for what it was.

Yeah, because I have always thought similiar... that sometimes it is jealousy and not pretentiousness. But I am thinking that what I thought and what you are talking about is acting "sidditty".

Ottensen said:

ScissorsRockPaper said:

That's fair, i can understand why you find my examples divisive -- intentionally so to clarify the absurdity of the misuse of the word "bourgeois". I do step further to challenge readers to think about the terms we use toward others.

...and we might start rectifying the word's misuse by learning how to spell it correctly.

I agree with this. I have always read it spelled the way you have spelled it here. And when I read this word, I pronounce it the french way. I have intentionally spelled it the way it has been spelled on this thread, because to me, people here are talking about something different than the true meaning of the french word bourgeois.

Merriam- Webster:

Definition of BOURGEOIS

1
: of, relating to, or characteristic of the social middle class

pronounced as \ˈbu̇rzh-ˌwä

Dave1992 said:

I always thought it simply meant bourgeois, because, you know, "bourgie" is a short term for "bourgeois". And that doesn't mean rich or arrogant (like some people suggested), but simply something like a square, boring, lame middle-class citizen...

Generally that's what it used to mean in American English, and naturally here in Europe and the UK it remains the same. However, in the hands of we Americans we've manage to bastardize the term and twist the context into a new colloquialism that has a a host of other socio-economic connotations.

prodigalfan said:

Timmy84 said:

Let me just clarify, it's great if you do good on the come up just be reminded of who you are and where you came from and I'll respect you. Just don't act like your shit don't stink because you graduate from college. You don't see me bragging about having an associate's degree to a thug, do you?

Hey, I got over that a long time ago. The "thug" don't give a DAMN about a college degree.

Sure don't.

Oh and @ScissorsRockPaper, it was nothing personal. Believe me I ain't like that. Just misunderstanding.