flyorra said:

this thread might get deleted. alcoholics want me to stop smoking. people addicted to fossil fuel want me to quit smoking. if smoking kills, then why am i still alive? i have seen police smoke, old people smoke. pregnant women suddenly find it easy to quit smoking. do people who get sick, do they all smoke? are all people who get cancer smokers? one more thing, 70 per cent is pure tax. now, does smoking give me pleasure, a sense of freedom and power??? does that bother you??? even if i could "quit" would that make you shut up about it??? quit the lying, quit spreading propaganda. quit your false assumptions.

flyorra said:

also forgot to mention...you're immortal perhaps??? everyone dies, now THAT is a FACT

Those type of commercials are misleading. I'm thinking those that die of health issues related to cancer usually are ones who smoke like every hour or something. There's folks who are chronic smokers and there's those who are more moderate that don't have any health problems.

Timmy84 said:

Those type of commercials are misleading. I'm thinking those that die of health issues related to cancer usually are ones who smoke like every hour or something. There's folks who are chronic smokers and there's those who are more moderate that don't have any health problems.

Any generelisation would be misleading and simply wrong. There are multiple factors that can effect the risk of cancer. But one thing is for sure: smoking is definitely one of them.

Dave1992 said:

Timmy84 said:

Those type of commercials are misleading. I'm thinking those that die of health issues related to cancer usually are ones who smoke like every hour or something. There's folks who are chronic smokers and there's those who are more moderate that don't have any health problems.

Any generelisation would be misleading and simply wrong. There are multiple factors that can effect the risk of cancer. But one thing is for sure: smoking is definitely one of them.

The risks to cancer are way more complicated though I don't deny about smoking, which is why I don't touch it but I can't understand those that smoke like crazy. Just every hour they smoke, then they wonder why they lose their lungs or lose their voice. Now usually those that do it just smoke like nuts. And these are the people they use to tell you to stop smoking. It's nonsense.

Timmy84 said:

Dave1992 said:

Any generelisation would be misleading and simply wrong. There are multiple factors that can effect the risk of cancer. But one thing is for sure: smoking is definitely one of them.

The risks to cancer are way more complicated though I don't deny about smoking, which is why I don't touch it but I can't understand those that smoke like crazy. Just every hour they smoke, then they wonder why they lose their lungs or lose their voice. Now usually those that do it just smoke like nuts. And these are the people they use to tell you to stop smoking. It's nonsense.

Let me tell you that the risk of cancer becomes considerably higher even when you smoke only one fag a day. Well, "considerable" is relative you may say, but in my opinion every risk is "considerable" when it comes to cancer...

In the end, people who have smoked way less have suffered the same diseases and they can usually be traced back to their smoking also.

Dave1992 said:

Timmy84 said:

The risks to cancer are way more complicated though I don't deny about smoking, which is why I don't touch it but I can't understand those that smoke like crazy. Just every hour they smoke, then they wonder why they lose their lungs or lose their voice. Now usually those that do it just smoke like nuts. And these are the people they use to tell you to stop smoking. It's nonsense.

Let me tell you that the risk of cancer becomes considerably higher even when you smoke only one fag a day. Well, "considerable" is relative you may say, but in my opinion every risk is "considerable" when it comes to cancer...

In the end, people who have smoked way less have suffered the same diseases and they can usually be traced back to their smoking also.

To me that's a generalization. Some people smoke all their life and don't have cancer and if they do, they usually die of something else or suffer from something else. So while smoking is considered to be a factor, it's not the creme de la creme into what gets you cancer. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Timmy84 said:

Dave1992 said:

Let me tell you that the risk of cancer becomes considerably higher even when you smoke only one fag a day. Well, "considerable" is relative you may say, but in my opinion every risk is "considerable" when it comes to cancer...

In the end, people who have smoked way less have suffered the same diseases and they can usually be traced back to their smoking also.

To me that's a generalization. Some people smoke all their life and don't have cancer and if they do, they usually die of something else or suffer from something else. So while smoking is considered to be a factor, it's not the creme de la creme into what gets you cancer. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Of course it is and many people should be thankful it is, because it has saved their lives.

Talking about "cremes de la creme of what gets you cancer" is quite risky and dangerous, because every body is different. If you have a weak lung and throat, smoking one two fags a week may kill you. If you don't, you may smoke three packets a day and die in a car accident. Fact is, nobody knows until it's too late and those who it is too late for never say it was worth it.

I've known of non smokers who get cancer. So it's not as simple to me. But I get your points.

Dave, Genesa has a point, to assume that we are going to have infinite resources to maintain our lifestyle on this planet, you either have to be an economist to believe that or completely in denial. in the lab there is something called the population growth curve, when bacteria grow expontentially, then stationary, then they die off because all the resources have been depleted. i also do not think that future generations are going to have it easy, especially with the "civil engineering" that's been going on. their quality of life will be, if any surivive, well not as good as your run in life. you may think i am lying to you, or continue to be idealistic in your views, values and beliefs, and you are entitled to it doesn't really matter. humans think of themselves as a successful species, when it's your time to become extinct or let's say decreased population...(because extinction is another fact of biology) then maybe you will see that eventho you tried to kill the planet, the planet will outlast you, and all it's plants etc will in fact be the most successful of the life forms. go ahead, be happy...

flyorra said:

this thread might get deleted. alcoholics want me to stop smoking. people addicted to fossil fuel want me to quit smoking. if smoking kills, then why am i still alive? i have seen police smoke, old people smoke. pregnant women suddenly find it easy to quit smoking. do people who get sick, do they all smoke? are all people who get cancer smokers? one more thing, 70 per cent is pure tax. now, does smoking give me pleasure, a sense of freedom and power??? does that bother you??? even if i could "quit" would that make you shut up about it??? quit the lying, quit spreading propaganda. quit your false assumptions.

You're just in denial about this one, I think.

Because it's a documented fact that people are more likely to develop lung issues and cancers as a result of smoking.

Sure, a lot of folks will probably get lucky and won't, but do you really want to take the chance?

And yep, lots of people smoke. That doesn't mean it's necessarily a healthy practice, by default.

And alkies should stop drinking too, I doubt you'll see anyone come in here and say otherwise.

Having said that, yes I know quitting is hard firsthand, because I had to watch my mother try - repeatedly - over the years to stop and she couldn't. Not even after watching her dad (who was also a smoker) die of lung cancer.

So I'm not slagging you off for not having managed to kick the habit yet. I'm just saying, don't bullshit yourself here. Smoking is not healthy period. And that's not rumors or speculation or propaganda or disinfo. It's absolute fact.

flyorra said:

also forgot to mention...you're immortal perhaps??? everyone dies, now THAT is a FACT

True...

But would you rather go in a whole lot of pain, or, if you could prevent that, go in an easier manner?

Smoking increases the odds of the former. It also makes it more likely that you won't live as long as you could have if you didn't.

So...

Dren5 said:

flyorra said:

this thread might get deleted. alcoholics want me to stop smoking. people addicted to fossil fuel want me to quit smoking. if smoking kills, then why am i still alive? i have seen police smoke, old people smoke. pregnant women suddenly find it easy to quit smoking. do people who get sick, do they all smoke? are all people who get cancer smokers? one more thing, 70 per cent is pure tax. now, does smoking give me pleasure, a sense of freedom and power??? does that bother you??? even if i could "quit" would that make you shut up about it??? quit the lying, quit spreading propaganda. quit your false assumptions.

You're just in denial about this one, I think.

Because it's a documented fact that people are more likely to develop lung issues and cancers as a result of smoking.

Sure, a lot of folks will probably get lucky and won't, but do you really want to take the chance?

And yep, lots of people smoke. That doesn't mean it's necessarily a healthy practice, by default.

And alkies should stop drinking too, I doubt you'll see anyone come in here and say otherwise.

Having said that, yes I know quitting is hard firsthand, because I had to watch my mother try - repeatedly - over the years to stop and she couldn't. Not even after watching her dad (who was also a smoker) die of lung cancer.

So I'm not slagging you off for not having managed to kick the habit yet. I'm just saying, don't bullshit yourself here. Smoking is not healthy period. And that's not rumors or speculation or propaganda or disinfo. It's absolute fact.

there is a causal relationship betwen smoking and health defects i am certainly not in denial about that, of course i do not want to die of lung cancer etc because that is a suffering experience. but not all suffering is caused by smoking, there is suffering in the human population that is not caused by smoking. let me finish...now as a matter of fact i know people who never smoked and were tennis players until their 70's i am not lying but they did get lung cancer because of city air polution. but i don't go around telling people to stop poluting in cities do i? you can say whatever about me, i am not in denial like so many people here are saying. maybe they ARE hypocrites.

flyorra said:

Dren5 said:

You're just in denial about this one, I think.

Because it's a documented fact that people are more likely to develop lung issues and cancers as a result of smoking.

Sure, a lot of folks will probably get lucky and won't, but do you really want to take the chance?

And yep, lots of people smoke. That doesn't mean it's necessarily a healthy practice, by default.

And alkies should stop drinking too, I doubt you'll see anyone come in here and say otherwise.

Having said that, yes I know quitting is hard firsthand, because I had to watch my mother try - repeatedly - over the years to stop and she couldn't. Not even after watching her dad (who was also a smoker) die of lung cancer.

So I'm not slagging you off for not having managed to kick the habit yet. I'm just saying, don't bullshit yourself here. Smoking is not healthy period. And that's not rumors or speculation or propaganda or disinfo. It's absolute fact.

there is a causal relationship betwen smoking and health defects i am certainly not in denial about that, of course i do not want to die of lung cancer etc because that is a suffering experience. but not all suffering is caused by smoking, there is suffering in the human population that is not caused by smoking. let me finish...now as a matter of fact i know people who never smoked and were tennis players until their 70's i am not lying but they did get lung cancer because of city air polution. but i don't go around telling people to stop poluting in cities do i? you can say whatever about me, i am not in denial like so many people here are saying. maybe they ARE hypocrites.

Who said that all human suffering is due to smoking?

And yeah, I'm sure people do get lung cancer from other causes as well, but let's be real here - the vast majority of lung cancer cases are in people who smoke. You know this, I know this.

I know you're saying you're not in denial, but honestly that's what it sounds like because it sounds like you're doing everything you can to tell yourself you aren't risking yourself by smoking. You are.

also want to say even young people get lung cancer who have never smoked, because of city air polution it has been documented.

flyorra said:

Dave, Genesa has a point, to assume that we are going to have infinite resources to maintain our lifestyle on this planet, you either have to be an economist to believe that or completely in denial. in the lab there is something called the population growth curve, when bacteria grow expontentially, then stationary, then they die off because all the resources have been depleted. i also do not think that future generations are going to have it easy, especially with the "civil engineering" that's been going on. their quality of life will be, if any surivive, well not as good as your run in life. you may think i am lying to you, or continue to be idealistic in your views, values and beliefs, and you are entitled to it doesn't really matter. humans think of themselves as a successful species, when it's your time to become extinct or let's say decreased population...(because extinction is another fact of biology) then maybe you will see that eventho you tried to kill the planet, the planet will outlast you, and all it's plants etc will in fact be the most successful of the life forms. go ahead, be happy...

flyorra said:

also want to say even young people get lung cancer who have never smoked, because of city air polution it has been documented.

So what is your point??

All we are trying to say is it INCREASES your chances... We are not saying you cant get cancer from anything else but cigs... The point is, why do something that will increase your risk of getting horribly sick and dying if you dont have to?? Your not going to jump in front of a moving car everyday, 10 times a day, you MAY get killed, but then again, you may just walk away.. who wants to take that chance??... Your logic to keep talking yourself into "smoking is ok" makes no sense..

tinaz said:

flyorra said:

also want to say even young people get lung cancer who have never smoked, because of city air polution it has been documented.

So what is your point??

All we are trying to say is it INCREASES your chances... We are not saying you cant get cancer from anything else but cigs... The point is, why do something that will increase your risk of getting horribly sick and dying if you dont have to?? Your not going to jump in front of a moving car everyday, 10 times a day, you MAY get killed, but then again, you may just walk away.. who wants to take that chance??... Your logic to keep talking yourself into "smoking is ok" makes no sense..

if you really want to know my point, basically smokers get demonised, people think they have the right to boss us around just because we smoke, we get called names,... you have no idea how many times a young person has asked me for a cigarette, do you think that's good? the only reason why it is legal to smoke is because it would cost the government a hellova lot of money to put us all in jail. why disciminate against us, like when you hate on obese people, stigmatise mental illness, be sexist or any other kind of manner of things that you just cannot judge people on. many smokers, like myself don't think it increases our chances, if you have a predispostion towards any kind of medical condition you will get the disease. people have lost their tolerance for one another completely. my point is if i could quit i would have by now, i have reduced. it's my problem period, if you had a problem and people constantly give you hate about it, how would you feel? how would you feel if i said to you "don't drive your car" IT KILLS! ridiculous wouldn't you think? same chances apply, you could become paralised in many ways "don't ride horses" IT KILLS. seriously anyone can get sick if they have a predisposition, since when was is a person evil for having an illness? OH maybe since smokers.

That's why I find all these "smoking kills" stuff to be strange. Like it's said, you can get lung cancer from inhaling air pollution and die because of that. I also think there's some kind of stereotype around smokers as if they're careless people who are ruining their lives smoking like that. Maybe it ain't just the cigarettes that made them like that but of course they can't tell you that because it'll ruin their campaign.