PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

Oh come on... It's not my superiority, but the superiority of logic over superstitious bullshit. If I am the only one who understands why that person's post was absolutely ridiculous, then yes, I am superior in using logic, but pointing that out was not the reason for my reply.

Simply because you are convinced in the superiority of your "logic" doesn't necessrily negate someone else's belief.

It's not my logic I am convinced of, but it is logic per se that should be convincing, because it is ultimate.

You haven't experienced anything in your life that would cause you to believe in anything that you cannot touch/smell/feel or explain by scientific formulas. Fine good for you.

Of course I have, but there are many scientific and logical explanations to loads of things that have nothing to do with things we can touch, smell or feel. I was just sceptical enough (thankfully) to look them up instead of being gullible and believing in everything people think they know just because they are older.

When you not only dismiss but outright disparage someone else's point of view or beliefs, then that my friend sets you on a nasty path.

Well, I can't find anything positive about believing in "angry souls coming to haunt us", so I might have to disparage that kind of thinking. The way I did it was probably inappropriate, yes. But if you are brave enough to openly post these ridiculous false pretences on a public forum you also have to be brave enough to brace yourself in case someone simply knows better. It sounds harsh, but in this case, all that matters is the truth, and that person simply did not tell the truth.

You are human, and are flawed just like anyone else. Accept that fact and don't turn your nose up when confronted with something that you don't believe in...in the end you'll be a better person overall.

Of course I am flawed. That doesn't mean being flawed is good, though. The logic of that person clearly was flawed, though.

And this is not about belief. This is actually something that has been clearly explained by hundreds of scientists, psychologists, doctors etc.

Imagine how you'd feel if you opened your mind and were confronted with something unexplainable by science?

I'd look for better reasons to believe in its factual existance and if there aren't any, it's most likely bullshit.

Dave1992 said:

PurpleJedi said:

Simply because you are convinced in the superiority of your "logic" doesn't necessrily negate someone else's belief.

It's not my logic I am convinced of, but it is logic per se that should be convincing, because it is ultimate.

You haven't experienced anything in your life that would cause you to believe in anything that you cannot touch/smell/feel or explain by scientific formulas. Fine good for you.

Of course I have, but there are many scientific and logical explanations to loads of things that have nothing to do with things we can touch, smell or feel. I was just sceptical enough (thankfully) to look them up instead of being gullible and believing in everything people think they know just because they are older.

When you not only dismiss but outright disparage someone else's point of view or beliefs, then that my friend sets you on a nasty path.

Well, I can't find anything positive about believing in "angry souls coming to haunt us", so I might have to disparage that kind of thinking. The way I did it was probably inappropriate, yes. But if you are brave enough to openly post these ridiculous false pretences on a public forum you also have to be brave enough to brace yourself in case someone simply knows better. It sounds harsh, but in this case, all that matters is the truth, and that person simply did not tell the truth.

You are human, and are flawed just like anyone else. Accept that fact and don't turn your nose up when confronted with something that you don't believe in...in the end you'll be a better person overall.

Of course I am flawed. That doesn't mean being flawed is good, though. The logic of that person clearly was flawed, though.

And this is not about belief. This is actually something that has been clearly explained by hundreds of scientists, psychologists, doctors etc.

Imagine how you'd feel if you opened your mind and were confronted with something unexplainable by science?

I'd look for better reasons to believe in its factual existance and if there aren't any, it's most likely bullshit.

There are things that cannot be explained by science.

You have rested 100% of your FAITH in science and the theories/formulas printed in books.

When you find a scientific formula that explains how one can feel the death of a loved one 3,000 miles away or see the image/spirit/ghost of a person who loved in your residence 30 years prior without you having any advance knowledge of what that person looked like....then please "enlighten" me.

You claim that you have had similar experiences. Then you purposely sought ways to "explain" them by virtue of your bible & gospel...the writings of the scientific community.

If you'll take the friendly advice of a stranger...don't harden yourself or close your mind at such a young age. Be open to the possibility that there's more to this world than atoms and combinations of elements.

PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

There are things that cannot be explained by science.

You have rested 100% of your FAITH in science and the theories/formulas printed in books.

When you find a scientific formula that explains how one can feel the death of a loved one 3,000 miles away or see the image/spirit/ghost of a person who loved in your residence 30 years prior without you having any advance knowledge of what that person looked like....then please "enlighten" me.

You claim that you have had similar experiences. Then you purposely sought ways to "explain" them by virtue of your bible & gospel...the writings of the scientific community.

If you'll take the friendly advice of a stranger...don't harden yourself or close your mind at such a young age. Be open to the possibility that there's more to this world than atoms and combinations of elements.

well said, PurpleJedi!

PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

There are things that cannot be explained by science.

You have rested 100% of your FAITH in science and the theories/formulas printed in books.

When you find a scientific formula that explains how one can feel the death of a loved one 3,000 miles away or see the image/spirit/ghost of a person who loved in your residence 30 years prior without you having any advance knowledge of what that person looked like....then please "enlighten" me.

You claim that you have had similar experiences. Then you purposely sought ways to "explain" them by virtue of your bible & gospel...the writings of the scientific community.

If you'll take the friendly advice of a stranger...don't harden yourself or close your mind at such a young age. Be open to the possibility that there's more to this world than atoms and combinations of elements.

This is like discussing the possibility of us actually existing and living on somebody else's USB-stick and none of this being "real". Yes, there's the possibility, but what can we make of that except for nothing? How is this question relevant?

"Truth" only is of value when it is put in relation with things that we actually can experience and measure, because at this stage in time, our playground is limited. Talking about what might exist on the other side of the fence is important and healthy, but should never be mixed with what we regard as "facts" right now. These "facts" might be refutet in 200 years, but right now logic (in form of Maths, Biology, Psychology, Philosophy, Chemistry and language) is the only common and currently irrefutable ground we, as intelligent living beings, share.

I agree that it is important to open your mind, but having an "open mind" towards unexplainable things doesn't excuse the ignorance of logic, which is the closest to the truth we can come at this moment in time.

.

[Edited 4/26/12 12:16pm]

Dave1992 said:

PurpleJedi said:

There are things that cannot be explained by science.

You have rested 100% of your FAITH in science and the theories/formulas printed in books.

When you find a scientific formula that explains how one can feel the death of a loved one 3,000 miles away or see the image/spirit/ghost of a person who loved in your residence 30 years prior without you having any advance knowledge of what that person looked like....then please "enlighten" me.

You claim that you have had similar experiences. Then you purposely sought ways to "explain" them by virtue of your bible & gospel...the writings of the scientific community.

If you'll take the friendly advice of a stranger...don't harden yourself or close your mind at such a young age. Be open to the possibility that there's more to this world than atoms and combinations of elements.

This is like discussing the possibility of us actually existing and living on somebody else's USB-stick and none of this being "real". Yes, there's the possibility, but what can we make of that except for nothing? How is this question relevant?

"Truth" only is of value when it is put in relation with things that we actually can experience and measure, because at this stage in time, our playground is limited. Talking about what might exist on the other side of the fence is important and healthy, but should never be mixed with what we regard as "facts" right now. These "facts" might be refutet in 200 years, but right now logic (in form of Maths, Biology, Psychology, Philosophy, Chemistry and language) is the only common and currently irrefutable ground we, as intelligent living beings, share.

I agree that it is important to open your mind, but having an "open mind" towards unexplainable things doesn't excuse the ignorance of logic, which is the closest to the truth we can come at this moment in time.

Dave...step back...take a day or two...come back and re-read this post.

You "un-disagreed" (if such a term can be coined) with me, and ended the post with a reaffirmation of your superiority (or "logic" as you termed it).

I'd like to throw something at you, not in any way trying to bait you or cause an argument...but I'd like to suggest that you try to research into what having an "open mind" entails. You're a smart guy Dave, and I think that you sometimes believe that just a bit too much. I realize that there is a language issue, but still the aggressive certainty of your tone does strike a bad cord.

If you really & truly believe that your view is the absolute truth and those in disagreement are ignorant or full of shit...then you're dancing with INTOLERANCE. You're no better than the bible-beaters who think that a man wearing women's shoes is a pawn of Satan. Your articulation may be better, but your mindset is the same.

I am in no way going to argue for or against what you or anyone else believes. My beliefs are my own and I respect everyone else's...even yours.

PurpleJedi said:

Dave1992 said:

This is like discussing the possibility of us actually existing and living on somebody else's USB-stick and none of this being "real". Yes, there's the possibility, but what can we make of that except for nothing? How is this question relevant?

"Truth" only is of value when it is put in relation with things that we actually can experience and measure, because at this stage in time, our playground is limited. Talking about what might exist on the other side of the fence is important and healthy, but should never be mixed with what we regard as "facts" right now. These "facts" might be refutet in 200 years, but right now logic (in form of Maths, Biology, Psychology, Philosophy, Chemistry and language) is the only common and currently irrefutable ground we, as intelligent living beings, share.

I agree that it is important to open your mind, but having an "open mind" towards unexplainable things doesn't excuse the ignorance of logic, which is the closest to the truth we can come at this moment in time.

Dave...step back...take a day or two...come back and re-read this post.

You "un-disagreed" (if such a term can be coined) with me, and ended the post with a reaffirmation of your superiority (or "logic" as you termed it).

I'd like to throw something at you, not in any way trying to bait you or cause an argument...but I'd like to suggest that you try to research into what having an "open mind" entails. You're a smart guy Dave, and I think that you sometimes believe that just a bit too much. I realize that there is a language issue, but still the aggressive certainty of your tone does strike a bad cord.

If you really & truly believe that your view is the absolute truth and those in disagreement are ignorant or full of shit...then you're dancing with INTOLERANCE. You're no better than the bible-beaters who think that a man wearing women's shoes is a pawn of Satan. Your articulation may be better, but your mindset is the same.

I am in no way going to argue for or against what you or anyone else believes. My beliefs are my own and I respect everyone else's...even yours.

especially the womens shoes bit

Genesia said:

JustErin said:

Ok, that's nuts! I can't believe this actually happened to me but it makes sense. I struggle to fall asleep every single night and I felt like it happened as I was trying to fall asleep.

The other thing is that I wasn't afraid at all, I was upset and angry and couldn't believe that this thing was bothering me when all I wanted to do was sleep.

Yup - it always happens in "twilight sleep." You absolutely feel like you're awake - in fact, it takes some time to realize that you aren't (if you do, at all). It's usually at that point that the dream takes a turn toward the terrifying for me - and I struggle to wake up.

I hate that isht.. I sometimes have the paralysis but I don't think that started 'til I was an adult.... freaks me out, makes me feel so disoriented when I wake up, espec. if I had a nightmare

creepy.. i'm glad it didn't scare u too much. maybe cuz of the stress u have some muscle tension which might cause those pushing/moving sensations?

i know had a couple of experiences as a little kid that i will never 4get, a witch in my wardrobe danced around my room & then hid under the bed. i swear i could feel the bed moving, movement from underneath, it was fking terrifying, i was sure i was awake & it was so real

in recent years i stayed in an old hotel, the same room with husband & kids & i woke feeling frightened & breathless like there was definately someone else moving around in the room, really creeped me out... all these things quite obviously imagination playing tricks

but recently my husband woke up after hearing someone call his name, directly in his lughole! it didn't scare him, but weirded him out. he said he first thought of his dad who had been dead a few years. .. he's totally sceptic about all things ghosty, but i think it was his dad, just letting him know he's still around & about

What an unexpected thread this turned out to be.