Do people change? And when they do, do you grant them space to grow into the person they want to become, or keep them stuck in their past?

Related second question: how would a person demonstrate to you that they have changed?

SPACE TO EDIT.
[This message was edited Tue Feb 25 23:52:22 PST 2003 by NuPwrSoul]

NuPwrSoul said:

Yes I allow them to change



they stop acting like an asshole

Most definately, it's a part of life.

A person demonstrates they have changed by way of a new way of looking at life, not merely the situation that prompted the change.

I allow people to change, to grow. yes. sometimes it's painful to let go of the past, but to see them happy with their change brings much more joy. The only time I might interfere with the change, is if it has to do with drugs or crime or any other negative way of living.

The don't have to demonstrate their change. If they act the way they are, it'll show by itself. If you have to "demonstrate" anything about you, it's not really you, the real you shows when you are being yourself.

NuPwrSoul said:

I'd like to think I do BUT I tend to find people that fit easily into my life, so it depends on the degree of change I suppose. Growth is always good, I'll always support that but "change" is another matter...



The dynamic is just different. I had a situation where a "friend" initially went along w/ everything I wanted, we had similar thought patterns, etc. Of course I thought our ultra-smooth friendship was just great but as time went on, the indifference they felt all along crept in. I guess they just got sick of going w/ my flow, which is understandable, I just wish they hadn't felt the need to be SO agreeable in the first place. So the changes were obvious - more distance, more silence, more critical comments directed @ me...

Let me stop, I'm opening wounds

NuPwrSoul said:

Absolutely.



I don't think it's up to me to dictate how another person lives his or her life--I'm a strong believer in autonomy. However, I can envision circumstances in which changes (on the part of me, the other person, or both) would cause our relationship to change, and not necessarily for the better.

People should change and grow.



Sometimes people "out grow" each other. For example, when I was 22-23 I had my daughter, for me things changed because I had to grow up fast but I had friends that couldn't deal with me not calling them as much or going clubbin'. We're not friends anymore. But some adjusted with the changes and we are still cool. (lame example but it's 5:45am)

The problem with that proposition is that it implies you and I are "grown", and the person is just getting where we are. A better question would be "Do you allow yourself and others to grow?"

Yes u have 2 allow people 2 change n grow. Some people never do either. I'm dealing with a situation right now as a matter of fact...someone that I was once close with many years ago has kinda come back n 2 the picture. The thing is that because we have both changed over the years,we've grown as well,it is kinda making it hard 4 us pick up where we left off. As adults u have 2 let people do what they want...n sometimes it's not alwayz what u might want. It really sux!!

The hardest thing seems to be to allow your children space to grow.

solandsky said:

Yes!

This is exactly what was on my mind. I recently ran into someone that I haven't seen for some time. And while I do sincerely believe that I was making space to see where she was now, it was clear to me that she only expected me to be the person that she had known and that I was years ago.

RDHull, waiting to see if someone "stops acting like an asshole" is not sufficient if the person does not give you space to stop, or even have higher expectations of you. Folks sometimes close themselves off because they don't expect any good to come out of someone based on past experiences.

In any case, after a few months of trying repeatedly to gain some ground, I gave up. She'll always think of me as the person she knew back then--someone she has long left behind. Sad thing is, I've left my past person long behind too. Too bad she can't see that.

Just allow people the space and time they need to grow into being themselves...often we begin by being who we think we're supposed to be...or by being who others want us to be...only to start being "ourselves" more fully and in more concrete ways after years of introspection...giving those you love the space and time to grow into being themselves is amazingly important.

Related second question: how would a person demonstrate to you that they have changed?


silence.

wellbeyond said:

Very well said, indeed. Thanks for your insight, Wellbeyond.

Tina (~!~)

People are allowed to change. But I swear I won't give them more than 2 square feet to grow.

chickengrease said:

T (~!~)

papercrayon said:

Their demeanor when I interact with them, just something you "sense" internally...it has to seem natural, effortless, and not forced or seeming too fake...it's consistency in their behavior or attitude change, they don't go back and forth between where they say they are now and where they used to be "then"...

matt said:

Co-sign. I'm also a believer in autonomy. If I move fluidly and am open to change and growth, then that is what will come to be. I believe that in others as well. Although I have expected people to behave in certain ways just to fit in with my life and suit me, I know that this is not the way and my change and growth is about learning to realise that I have a choice in such situations. If I feel that relating with that other person is destructive, then I move on. Or negotiate a way of keeping in contact where both parties are happy sharing parts of 'self' with one another.

Aerogram said:

I really enjoyed reading that point that you made and learnt from it, thank you Aerogram

wellbeyond said:

I realised this recently when I let my sons Father go. I let him go. I stopped attempting to get him. It was an illusion what was going on, fuelled by my desires to 'make things right' when in retrospect, I was putting too much effort in. Effort for us both. So I did what I mentioned above, I realised that ultimatly, I was hurting myself by this act of over giving and I realised that I had a choice - I can keep on doing this, or I can redefine my boundaries and help to contain myself and not give my whole self away, out of desperation (one of the many reasons). My focus in now back with myself and I am looking within to find out more about myself. I agree wellbeyond, I am feeling the most concrete in myself that I have ever felt. That is a gift that I have given to myself. Really, I could blame others, it is just that I have not had the information and know how, how to do things in a different way. Maybe others will want my to stay the same, as that means that they won't have to change to relate with me. I am not saying that I expect people to change due to my changes, yet, if I am no longer willing to accept x y or z, then hearing me say so, will mean that something in that exchange is going to be different, not only for me, for the other person too. That doesn't mean that is the same as actively choosing to participate in personal growth and change. Yet, it is a change of sorts. I am nearly over with that kind of thing. I am learning how to remain in contact with the concrete me, while being in contact with others.

Phew!!

NuPwrSoul said:

I can see that and thats part of my point..I or they may have have changed and become "different" people. Those who can't accept that growth which entails acepting who you now are, your beleifs of now, your being of now overall, are assholes so to speak. And if I couldn't accept ones growth which includes all Ive stated and more,I'd be an asshole as well. Hence , someone not acepting anyone as they are here and now as in this is me and how I am,or later in life, is an asshole as well which is also what I meant.

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[This message was edited Wed Feb 26 13:48:36 PST 2003 by rdhull]