Okay...I'm not looking for some religious philosophy or anything. I just noticed that I dont let go of some things to0 easily. Like if somebody seriously hurt me as a child, and I had a chance 20 years later to run them over without ever getting caught...I would find that option alluring.

I tip my hat to those that can forgive, and I know I have tried. And I'm generally chill...but there are those people I just want to push off of a cliff. Some shit never goes away....its like a fresh new wound at the mere sight of the offender. And when I feel that anger I'm like, shit--this is still bothering me? So apparently, I dont forgive much, I just store shit away until it is again relevant. I've heard it said that in order to forgive, one must forget. I dont forget most things, I couldn't if I tried. How do you put out those feelings that just make you wish you could run somebody over?

Usually yes I do... There is one person who I wish would contract a painful slow non curable disease... Otherwise, I CAN forgive, but I usually dont forget... But I get over it and move on... But not in this one persons case... EVER..

StillGotIt said:

Okay...I'm not looking for some religious philosophy or anything. I just noticed that I dont let go of some things to0 easily. Like if somebody seriously hurt me as a child, and I had a chance 20 years later to run them over without ever getting caught...I would find that option alluring.

I tip my hat to those that can forgive, and I know I have tried. And I'm generally chill...but there are those people I just want to push off of a cliff. Some shit never goes away....its like a fresh new wound at the mere sight of the offender. And when I feel that anger I'm like, shit--this is still bothering me? So apparently, I dont forgive much, I just store shit away until it is again relevant. I've heard it said that in order to forgive, one must forget. I dont forget most things, I couldn't if I tried. How do you put out those feelings that just make you wish you could run somebody over?

Yes, I can fully forgive.

in my personal experience with a loved one, i must warn you to try your best to "forgive." it's very difficult to forget, but that happens in time. realize you don't have to re-introduce that person back into your life (their trust has to be earned) , however it is very important to forgive.

have you heard the term "bitterness is a hard pill to swallow?"

well the term has a lot of power. the person (i speak of) that refused to forgive 30+years of wrong she felt was done to her by others (particularly a close relative). Eventually she ended up with many restrictive debilitative chronic ailments.

often she would recall and almost relive the arguments and the scenarios between her and the particular younger member of her family. she would renact the situation, become agitated, rant, get angry, cry and become very distraught over something that happened too many years ago.

well anyway, between rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, neuropathy and vitiligo attacking her body, she finally died. but not before both legs were amputated, hands were no longer useful (fingers were wired to keep from knarling), and a very bad case of skin discoloring attacked her body.

she never let go of her bitterness until the very end of her life.

this true story is not related to spiritualism or any religious advice. it's a fact.

let go of the negative past. stop holding onto the bitterness of a past that you cannot change. find some sort of lesson learned in the experience and forgive, forgive, FORGIVE the person and the situation around the experience and most importantly see yourself in the experience and forgive yourself for any un-perceived or perceived wrong you may have added! then LET IT GO!

please be aware that bitterness will affect the body. bitterness is directly linked to psycho-somatic illnesses, pre-mature aging and very painful chronic diseases.

(i miss her )

[Edited 2/4/12 7:54am]

sure. maybe it's because holding a grudge is tedious, or maybe because i'd rather think about *me* instead of brood over someone else. at any rate, grudges are a waste of time. not saying a person shouldn't live and learn, bur forgiving and forgetting are two different things

I just want to state for the record that I dont dwell on this person at all... Hardly even think about him and what he did... I just hope he rots in hell...

There’s nothing in my past that I haven’t forgiven at least in my own mind. It took me a long time to get here, but I made it. That doesn’t mean trust is rebuilt and there are certainly people I have no desire to spend any time with in the future, but I have let go of the past. I don’t have the energy to harbor grudges. I’d rather focus on things that make me happy.

[Edited 2/3/12 6:22am]

Yes I can, but to be honest, not much bad stuff has happened to me actually.

Sure, there were issues in relationships, but never to such an extent that I ended up hating the SO.

I consider myself very lucky with the easy life I’ve lived so far. So yes, for me it’s easy to forgive and move on.

If I was living a very harsh life, my outlook on this might be completely different.

Then again, I’m not a spiteful person, never was.

Yes, I can. But I can't forget.

There was one girl, hell a group of girls, who I used to try and befriend as a kid. But instead of being friends with me, they bullied me. And I grew up feeling very bitter about them and angry at what they did to me.

And then after I graduated high school, I get a facebook request from one of them. She said she was rooting through her old stuff, and found a notebook that had my drawings in them from the time I was trying to teach her how to draw hands. She said she began missing me and hence why she looked me up.

It took me a long time to reply back to her. I had to ask her...why did you treat me like that when I was a kid? I was so nice to you and you treated me like dirt, you and your crew. She said she never meant to hurt me, and that the main perpetrator was some other girl in the group. All I got was finger pointing, which sounded like she didn't want to really take responsibility for it. But she did add, "I am sorry for how I treated you. There's no excuse for that." It took me a while...but I eventually forgave her and accepted her friend request.

I still remember though...that her loyalty can be easily swayed when she wants to be popular. That's why she's limited into what she can see.

I only forgive if that person is worthy to be forgiven. I don't hand it out like Chiclets.

I don't understand the concept of forgiveness, honestly.

That's not to say I endorse revenge.

What I mean is that what exactly is forgiveness to me? Does it mean that I reach a point in self-elightnment to say to a person---it's no big deal? Or that what they did is no longer important? Or that their past tresspass is less important than maintaining a good relationship.

Or is it to just agree to disagree, or agree that what happened was in the past, and we can't move on unless we nutralize our reflections on these matters?

I don't understand forgiveness. I don't really know what it means. I've thought about it, and each time I think about it the closest I get is the concept that something someone did or said should be brushed aside and acknowledged that it's not as important as maintaining a emotionally nuetral or beneficial relationship here on out. But, then again, I don't always harbor these feelings genuinely.

I have an amazing ability to brush stuff off, and say to myself, "you're no longer important to me, so why should I dwell on you." I can also get over anger at someone very quickly.

But once innocense is lost to a very angry argument, no matter how quickly I cool down (and it's pretty quickly in many cases), I'm always hyper alert to that same person's ability to resume their previous behavior.

I'm one of those people who doesn't think it's such a bad idea to hate others. I even think it's healthy to acknowledge it to yourself and not pretend to be a all-good person if you're not. This often rubs people the wrong way, but so? Kissing ass at all costs isn't exactly healthy in my opinion. I hate a few people right now, and I don't mind hating them. The trick for me is not to dwell on the hatred or let it dictate any of my actions. But to hate them...well, that's ok for me. I'm not looking to exact revenge on them....it makes me happy just knowing that they know I hate them. And, isn't that fair enough?

whistle said:

Odd position for someone with that sig to take.

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Yes, I can. But I can't forget.

There was one girl, hell a group of girls, who I used to try and befriend as a kid. But instead of being friends with me, they bullied me. And I grew up feeling very bitter about them and angry at what they did to me.

And then after I graduated high school, I get a facebook request from one of them. She said she was rooting through her old stuff, and found a notebook that had my drawings in them from the time I was trying to teach her how to draw hands. She said she began missing me and hence why she looked me up.

It took me a long time to reply back to her. I had to ask her...why did you treat me like that when I was a kid? I was so nice to you and you treated me like dirt, you and your crew. She said she never meant to hurt me, and that the main perpetrator was some other girl in the group. All I got was finger pointing, which sounded like she didn't want to really take responsibility for it. But she did add, "I am sorry for how I treated you. There's no excuse for that." It took me a while...but I eventually forgave her and accepted her friend request.

I still remember though...that her loyalty can be easily swayed when she wants to be popular. That's why she's limited into what she can see.

I only forgive if that person is worthy to be forgiven. I don't hand it out like Chiclets.

I had these two guys a year older than me in High School that were in my math class who made my year a living hell (I sucked at match which is why I was in with the "trouble" kids). The one guy tormented me and his buddy chimed in and laughed, egging him on. I did my best to ignore them, but it was bad for me.

Anyway...15 years later I take my car to the repair shop, and the buddy is there behind the counter. I was being helped by someone else and I didn't acknowledge him. He came over to me and smiled and was all cheerful like we were old friends or something. He said something like, "Hey you're not even going to say hi?"

I looked at him and said something like, "After what you and Anthony put me through?"

He laughed and said, "Man! That was waaaaay back in High School!" Then proceeded to have a friendly conversation with me.

It was definitely a WTF? moment for me.

As for the original question for this thread;

YES I can forgive. Very easily in fact. Sometimes TOO easily.

...BUT...I do not forget.

Screw me once, and you won't get a chance to do it again. Ever.

I am a trusting, honest person. Once you break that trust or lie/cheat/steal, you are forever tainted.

Sorry.

PurpleJedi said:

ThruTheEyesOfWonder said:

Yes, I can. But I can't forget.

There was one girl, hell a group of girls, who I used to try and befriend as a kid. But instead of being friends with me, they bullied me. And I grew up feeling very bitter about them and angry at what they did to me.

And then after I graduated high school, I get a facebook request from one of them. She said she was rooting through her old stuff, and found a notebook that had my drawings in them from the time I was trying to teach her how to draw hands. She said she began missing me and hence why she looked me up.

It took me a long time to reply back to her. I had to ask her...why did you treat me like that when I was a kid? I was so nice to you and you treated me like dirt, you and your crew. She said she never meant to hurt me, and that the main perpetrator was some other girl in the group. All I got was finger pointing, which sounded like she didn't want to really take responsibility for it. But she did add, "I am sorry for how I treated you. There's no excuse for that." It took me a while...but I eventually forgave her and accepted her friend request.

I still remember though...that her loyalty can be easily swayed when she wants to be popular. That's why she's limited into what she can see.

I only forgive if that person is worthy to be forgiven. I don't hand it out like Chiclets.

I had these two guys a year older than me in High School that were in my math class who made my year a living hell (I sucked at match which is why I was in with the "trouble" kids). The one guy tormented me and his buddy chimed in and laughed, egging him on. I did my best to ignore them, but it was bad for me.

Anyway...15 years later I take my car to the repair shop, and the buddy is there behind the counter. I was being helped by someone else and I didn't acknowledge him. He came over to me and smiled and was all cheerful like we were old friends or something. He said something like, "Hey you're not even going to say hi?"

I looked at him and said something like, "After what you and Anthony put me through?"

He laughed and said, "Man! That was waaaaay back in High School!" Then proceeded to have a friendly conversation with me.

It was definitely a WTF? moment for me.

OMG, I once went to this redneck school in the boondocks, where I was picked on relentlessly.

When I reached the 10th grade, providence stepped in and ended up moving closer to the inner city, to a school with a bit of diversity where I no longer got picked on.

Anways, my first year in college, a few of my reneck-school classmates from the past were in one of my English classes.

By that time, everyone had matured enough to act civil, etc.

However, when the teacher randomly selected a written essay to read, I knew immediately from the writing that it was one of those 'dudes'.

So she asked for our opinion of the writing.

I started with, "It's bloody aweful," and proceeded to tear his essay to shreds for about 10 minutes

One of the students in class said, "god whoever wrote it isn't going to like you very much," and I responded, "whoever wrote it should worry more about their writing than my personality."

He remained silent the entire time, looking awkward and embarassed, which made me sooooooo happy.

Would I do something like that now? I doubt it.

imago said:

PurpleJedi said:

I had these two guys a year older than me in High School that were in my math class who made my year a living hell (I sucked at match which is why I was in with the "trouble" kids). The one guy tormented me and his buddy chimed in and laughed, egging him on. I did my best to ignore them, but it was bad for me.

Anyway...15 years later I take my car to the repair shop, and the buddy is there behind the counter. I was being helped by someone else and I didn't acknowledge him. He came over to me and smiled and was all cheerful like we were old friends or something. He said something like, "Hey you're not even going to say hi?"

I looked at him and said something like, "After what you and Anthony put me through?"

He laughed and said, "Man! That was waaaaay back in High School!" Then proceeded to have a friendly conversation with me.

It was definitely a WTF? moment for me.

OMG, I once went to this redneck school in the boondocks, where I was picked on relentlessly.

When I reached the 10th grade, providence stepped in and ended up moving closer to the inner city, to a school with a bit of diversity where I no longer got picked on.

Anways, my first year in college, a few of my reneck-school classmates from the past were in one of my English classes.

By that time, everyone had matured enough to act civil, etc.

However, when the teacher randomly selected a written essay to read, I knew immediately from the writing that it was one of those 'dudes'.

So she asked for our opinion of the writing.

I started with, "It's bloody aweful," and proceeded to tear his essay to shreds for about 10 minutes

One of the students in class said, "god whoever wrote it isn't going to like you very much," and I responded, "whoever wrote it should worry more about their writing than my personality."

He remained silent the entire time, looking awkward and embarassed, which made me sooooooo happy.

Would I do something like that now? I doubt it.

That was great though!

free2bfreeda said:

StillGotIt said:

Okay...I'm not looking for some religious philosophy or anything. I just noticed that I dont let go of some things to0 easily. Like if somebody seriously hurt me as a child, and I had a chance 20 years later to run them over without ever getting caught...I would find that option alluring.

I tip my hat to those that can forgive, and I know I have tried. And I'm generally chill...but there are those people I just want to push off of a cliff. Some shit never goes away....its like a fresh new wound at the mere sight of the offender. And when I feel that anger I'm like, shit--this is still bothering me? So apparently, I dont forgive much, I just store shit away until it is again relevant. I've heard it said that in order to forgive, one must forget. I dont forget most things, I couldn't if I tried. How do you put out those feelings that just make you wish you could run somebody over?

Yes, I can fully forgive.

in my personal experience with a loved one, i must warn you to try your best to "forgive." it's very difficult to forget, but that happens in time. realize you don't have to re-introduce that person back into your life (their trust has to be earned) , however it is very important to forgive.

have you heard the term "a bitterness is a hard pill to swallow?"

well the term has a lot of power. the person (i speak of) that refused to forgive 30+years of wrong done to her by others (particularly a close relative) ended up with many restrictive debilitative chronic ailments. often she would recall and almost relive perceived wrongs done to her by the particular younger member of her family. she would relive the situation, rant, get angry, cry and become very distraught over something that happened too many years ago.

well anyway, between rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, neuropathy and vitiligo attacking her body, she finally died.

but not before both legs were amputated, hands were no longer useful (fingers were wired to keep from knarling), and a very bad case of skin discoloring.

she never let go of her bitterness until the very end of her life.

this is not related to spiritualism or any religious advice. it's a fact.

let go of the negative past. stop holding onto the bitterness of a past that you cannot change. find some sort of lesson learned in the experience and forgive, forgive, FORGIVE the person and the situation around the experience and most importantly see yourself in the experience and forgive yourself for any un-perceived or perceived wrong you may have added! then LET IT GO!

please be aware that bitterness will affect the body. bitterness is directly linked to psycho-somatic illnesses, pre-mature aging and very painful chronic diseases.

(i miss her )

[Edited 2/3/12 6:31am]

Appreciate these thoughts because this is my biggest fear. Being a bitter bitch. I always remembered that saying about bitterness being betrayals baby. I have met so very many people who are bitter--they ended up lonely, and physically alone. I do not want to be that type of person, ever, so when I feel a angry about something old, it worries me a bit. I preferred when the past just hurt....but now I feel anger over some things that I thought I was done with--and it only comes to mind because somebody brought it all up. I am alarmed. This is something I always tried to work on.

PurpleJedi said:

imago said:

OMG, I once went to this redneck school in the boondocks, where I was picked on relentlessly.

When I reached the 10th grade, providence stepped in and ended up moving closer to the inner city, to a school with a bit of diversity where I no longer got picked on.

Anways, my first year in college, a few of my reneck-school classmates from the past were in one of my English classes.

By that time, everyone had matured enough to act civil, etc.

However, when the teacher randomly selected a written essay to read, I knew immediately from the writing that it was one of those 'dudes'.

So she asked for our opinion of the writing.

I started with, "It's bloody aweful," and proceeded to tear his essay to shreds for about 10 minutes

One of the students in class said, "god whoever wrote it isn't going to like you very much," and I responded, "whoever wrote it should worry more about their writing than my personality."

He remained silent the entire time, looking awkward and embarassed, which made me sooooooo happy.

Would I do something like that now? I doubt it.

That was great though!

I liked that as well....

StillGotIt said:

free2bfreeda said:

Yes, I can fully forgive.

in my personal experience with a loved one, i must warn you to try your best to "forgive." it's very difficult to forget, but that happens in time. realize you don't have to re-introduce that person back into your life (their trust has to be earned) , however it is very important to forgive.

have you heard the term "a bitterness is a hard pill to swallow?"

well the term has a lot of power. the person (i speak of) that refused to forgive 30+years of wrong done to her by others (particularly a close relative) ended up with many restrictive debilitative chronic ailments. often she would recall and almost relive perceived wrongs done to her by the particular younger member of her family. she would relive the situation, rant, get angry, cry and become very distraught over something that happened too many years ago.

well anyway, between rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, neuropathy and vitiligo attacking her body, she finally died.

but not before both legs were amputated, hands were no longer useful (fingers were wired to keep from knarling), and a very bad case of skin discoloring.

she never let go of her bitterness until the very end of her life.

this is not related to spiritualism or any religious advice. it's a fact.

let go of the negative past. stop holding onto the bitterness of a past that you cannot change. find some sort of lesson learned in the experience and forgive, forgive, FORGIVE the person and the situation around the experience and most importantly see yourself in the experience and forgive yourself for any un-perceived or perceived wrong you may have added! then LET IT GO!

please be aware that bitterness will affect the body. bitterness is directly linked to psycho-somatic illnesses, pre-mature aging and very painful chronic diseases.

(i miss her )

[Edited 2/3/12 6:31am]

Appreciate these thoughts because this is my biggest fear. Being a bitter bitch. I always remembered that saying about bitterness being betrayals baby. I have met so very many people who are bitter--they ended up lonely, and physically alone. I do not want to be that type of person, ever, so when I feel a angry about something old, it worries me a bit. I preferred when the past just hurt....but now I feel anger over some things that I thought I was done with--and it only comes to mind because somebody brought it all up. I am alarmed. This is something I always tried to work on.

Resentment leads to bitterness. And bitterness leads to the Dark Side.

Seriously...you have to forgive. It's good not to forget, but definitely get past the anger and dark emotions.

tinaz said:

Usually yes I do... There is one person who I wish would contract a painful slow non curable disease... Otherwise, I CAN forgive, but I usually dont forget... But I get over it and move on... But not in this one persons case... EVER..

When I was a kid I used to believe that the reason I didn't have super powers was because I would have killed a lot of people with slow, and painful methods

imago said:

I don't understand the concept of forgiveness, honestly.

That's not to say I endorse revenge.

What I mean is that what exactly is forgiveness to me? Does it mean that I reach a point in self-elightnment to say to a person---it's no big deal? Or that what they did is no longer important? Or that their past tresspass is less important than maintaining a good relationship.

Or is it to just agree to disagree, or agree that what happened was in the past, and we can't move on unless we nutralize our reflections on these matters?

I don't understand forgiveness. I don't really know what it means. I've thought about it, and each time I think about it the closest I get is the concept that something someone did or said should be brushed aside and acknowledged that it's not as important as maintaining a emotionally nuetral or beneficial relationship here on out. But, then again, I don't always harbor these feelings genuinely.

I have an amazing ability to brush stuff off, and say to myself, "you're no longer important to me, so why should I dwell on you." I can also get over anger at someone very quickly.

But once innocense is lost to a very angry argument, no matter how quickly I cool down (and it's pretty quickly in many cases), I'm always hyper alert to that same person's ability to resume their previous behavior.

I'm one of those people who doesn't think it's such a bad idea to hate others. I even think it's healthy to acknowledge it to yourself and not pretend to be a all-good person if you're not. This often rubs people the wrong way, but so? Kissing ass at all costs isn't exactly healthy in my opinion. I hate a few people right now, and I don't mind hating them. The trick for me is not to dwell on the hatred or let it dictate any of my actions. But to hate them...well, that's ok for me. I'm not looking to exact revenge on them....it makes me happy just knowing that they know I hate them. And, isn't that fair enough?

I can only give you an example.

My brother and I fought viciously when we were younger. I mean, horrible fighting physically and he was 5 years older than me. By the time we were too old to keep that up he called me names non-stop – slut, bitch, cunt, all of it. It was all extremely abusive, went on for years and is something I’d say contributed to my life-long distrust of men and my struggles with self-esteem. For years after I moved out of my family’s home I wanted nothing to do with him and even after he had his first child, I’ve always been closer with her than him. I’d spend time with his family, but felt no real desire to have any kind of relationship with him.

It took me a really long time, but I am now able to see he was just a kid. He didn’t know what he was doing any more than any of us at that age. Yes, it was wrong. But he had things happen to him to deal with that caused him to act out the way he did. He wouldn’t treat me like that today, and I know he’s genuinely sorry for it all. I know that without him even having to say it as for years he has made an effort to ensure I stay in his and his family’s life. I now enjoy spending time with my family and enjoy seeing him and seeing him do well. This wasn’t the case until maybe the last few years where I’ve been able to let it all go.

That’s forgiveness. To me, anyway.

CarrieMpls said:

imago said:

I don't understand the concept of forgiveness, honestly.

That's not to say I endorse revenge.

What I mean is that what exactly is forgiveness to me? Does it mean that I reach a point in self-elightnment to say to a person---it's no big deal? Or that what they did is no longer important? Or that their past tresspass is less important than maintaining a good relationship.

Or is it to just agree to disagree, or agree that what happened was in the past, and we can't move on unless we nutralize our reflections on these matters?

I don't understand forgiveness. I don't really know what it means. I've thought about it, and each time I think about it the closest I get is the concept that something someone did or said should be brushed aside and acknowledged that it's not as important as maintaining a emotionally nuetral or beneficial relationship here on out. But, then again, I don't always harbor these feelings genuinely.

I have an amazing ability to brush stuff off, and say to myself, "you're no longer important to me, so why should I dwell on you." I can also get over anger at someone very quickly.

But once innocense is lost to a very angry argument, no matter how quickly I cool down (and it's pretty quickly in many cases), I'm always hyper alert to that same person's ability to resume their previous behavior.

I'm one of those people who doesn't think it's such a bad idea to hate others. I even think it's healthy to acknowledge it to yourself and not pretend to be a all-good person if you're not. This often rubs people the wrong way, but so? Kissing ass at all costs isn't exactly healthy in my opinion. I hate a few people right now, and I don't mind hating them. The trick for me is not to dwell on the hatred or let it dictate any of my actions. But to hate them...well, that's ok for me. I'm not looking to exact revenge on them....it makes me happy just knowing that they know I hate them. And, isn't that fair enough?

I can only give you an example.

My brother and I fought viciously when we were younger. I mean, horrible fighting physically and he was 5 years older than me. By the time we were too old to keep that up he called me names non-stop – slut, bitch, cunt, all of it. It was all extremely abusive, went on for years and is something I’d say contributed to my life-long distrust of men and my struggles with self-esteem. For years after I moved out of my family’s home I wanted nothing to do with him and even after he had his first child, I’ve always been closer with her than him. I’d spend time with his family, but felt no real desire to have any kind of relationship with him.

It took me a really long time, but I am now able to see he was just a kid. He didn’t know what he was doing any more than any of us at that age. Yes, it was wrong. But he had things happen to him to deal with that caused him to act out the way he did. He wouldn’t treat me like that today, and I know he’s genuinely sorry for it all. I know that without him even having to say it as for years he has made an effort to ensure I stay in his and his family’s life. I now enjoy spending time with my family and enjoy seeing him and seeing him do well. This wasn’t the case until maybe the last few years where I’ve been able to let it all go.

That’s forgiveness. To me, anyway.

that is deep as hell....and i appreciate it a lot. I am currently trying to mend fences with one sibling who really did a lot to mess with my head...I was just a kid but she was not (20years my senior--my dad is 92....). she has been trying to reach out to me for years, and until recently I wouldn't even glance her way. i'm not at all good at being vulnerable once I learn that somebody did some shit to deliberately hurt me. I still look at her sideways--but at least I look at her. Prior to that, there almost zero contact for 15 years--unless i was visiting my parents. I dont know if I could dare to let it go...I don't feel anger unless we start talking about the past. I just feel like people should not be capable of some things especially when it comes to kids......so I stay guarded

[Edited 2/3/12 7:48am]

CarrieMpls said:

imago said:

I don't understand the concept of forgiveness, honestly.

That's not to say I endorse revenge.

What I mean is that what exactly is forgiveness to me? Does it mean that I reach a point in self-elightnment to say to a person---it's no big deal? Or that what they did is no longer important? Or that their past tresspass is less important than maintaining a good relationship.

Or is it to just agree to disagree, or agree that what happened was in the past, and we can't move on unless we nutralize our reflections on these matters?

I don't understand forgiveness. I don't really know what it means. I've thought about it, and each time I think about it the closest I get is the concept that something someone did or said should be brushed aside and acknowledged that it's not as important as maintaining a emotionally nuetral or beneficial relationship here on out. But, then again, I don't always harbor these feelings genuinely.

I have an amazing ability to brush stuff off, and say to myself, "you're no longer important to me, so why should I dwell on you." I can also get over anger at someone very quickly.

But once innocense is lost to a very angry argument, no matter how quickly I cool down (and it's pretty quickly in many cases), I'm always hyper alert to that same person's ability to resume their previous behavior.

I'm one of those people who doesn't think it's such a bad idea to hate others. I even think it's healthy to acknowledge it to yourself and not pretend to be a all-good person if you're not. This often rubs people the wrong way, but so? Kissing ass at all costs isn't exactly healthy in my opinion. I hate a few people right now, and I don't mind hating them. The trick for me is not to dwell on the hatred or let it dictate any of my actions. But to hate them...well, that's ok for me. I'm not looking to exact revenge on them....it makes me happy just knowing that they know I hate them. And, isn't that fair enough?

I can only give you an example.

My brother and I fought viciously when we were younger. I mean, horrible fighting physically and he was 5 years older than me. By the time we were too old to keep that up he called me names non-stop – slut, bitch, cunt, all of it. It was all extremely abusive, went on for years and is something I’d say contributed to my life-long distrust of men and my struggles with self-esteem. For years after I moved out of my family’s home I wanted nothing to do with him and even after he had his first child, I’ve always been closer with her than him. I’d spend time with his family, but felt no real desire to have any kind of relationship with him.

It took me a really long time, but I am now able to see he was just a kid. He didn’t know what he was doing any more than any of us at that age. Yes, it was wrong. But he had things happen to him to deal with that caused him to act out the way he did. He wouldn’t treat me like that today, and I know he’s genuinely sorry for it all. I know that without him even having to say it as for years he has made an effort to ensure I stay in his and his family’s life. I now enjoy spending time with my family and enjoy seeing him and seeing him do well. This wasn’t the case until maybe the last few years where I’ve been able to let it all go.

That’s forgiveness. To me, anyway.

This is slightly similar to my feelings towards my father, now dead of course. But, stil not

the same thing. What you experienced was terrible, but your 'forgiveness' seems fully actualized.

A couple of years ago, I realized I was the same age that he was when I first started to

have memories of him.

He was such an asshole.. verbally abusive and insulting.

I now see him as a very flawed being. A process. Somone lost.

But I can't say it's forgiveness because I really honestly don't know what forgiveness is.

Certainly when I recently discovered that he was cheating on my mom out in the open

when I was a tot here in Thailand, I find him....less than human.

I guess I don't know what forgiving someone fully is because I've never experienced it.

Yet, I don't think it's necessisarily the same thing as holding a grudge.

And when I try to think about it really hard, like I have these last 10 minutes, I get a headache.

imago said:

CarrieMpls said:

I can only give you an example.

My brother and I fought viciously when we were younger. I mean, horrible fighting physically and he was 5 years older than me. By the time we were too old to keep that up he called me names non-stop – slut, bitch, cunt, all of it. It was all extremely abusive, went on for years and is something I’d say contributed to my life-long distrust of men and my struggles with self-esteem. For years after I moved out of my family’s home I wanted nothing to do with him and even after he had his first child, I’ve always been closer with her than him. I’d spend time with his family, but felt no real desire to have any kind of relationship with him.

It took me a really long time, but I am now able to see he was just a kid. He didn’t know what he was doing any more than any of us at that age. Yes, it was wrong. But he had things happen to him to deal with that caused him to act out the way he did. He wouldn’t treat me like that today, and I know he’s genuinely sorry for it all. I know that without him even having to say it as for years he has made an effort to ensure I stay in his and his family’s life. I now enjoy spending time with my family and enjoy seeing him and seeing him do well. This wasn’t the case until maybe the last few years where I’ve been able to let it all go.

That’s forgiveness. To me, anyway.

This is slightly similar to my feelings towards my father, now dead of course. But, stil not

the same thing. What you experienced was terrible, but your 'forgiveness' seems fully actualized.

A couple of years ago, I realized I was the same age that he was when I first started to

have memories of him.

He was such an asshole.. verbally abusive and insulting.

I now see him as a very flawed being. A process. Somone lost.

But I can't say it's forgiveness because I really honestly don't know what forgiveness is.

Certainly when I recently discovered that he was cheating on my mom out in the open

when I was a tot here in Thailand, I find him....less than human.

I guess I don't know what forgiving someone fully is because I've never experienced it.

Yet, I don't think it's necessisarily the same thing as holding a grudge.

And when I try to think about it really hard, like I have these last 10 minutes, I get a headache.

I understand the concept of "forgiving" someone just like I understand the concept or running a 26 mile marathon. However, I do not seem to be quite successful at pulling either off. I never thought I would say this....but I think I may have something deep in common with imago

I think I was able to move on once I recieved healing from my pain... some sort of resolution.

It is harder to forgive when the person who trespassed against you still does or will do so if given the chance. So, IMHO there is no real chance for a healing to occur, you just walk around with an open wound.... metaphorically speaking.. but just as you would grow weak physiacally and bleed to death, so is an open emotional wound that is allowed to grow making one bitter,

Insead of wondering about forgivness, I focus on myself and my own healing. Forgiveness and moving forward (healing) comes with that process.

I was so hurt and wounded by people who didn't really appreciate or even realize all the pain they caused me and so in their will hurt me again. So, I take the stance that they didn't mean to hurt me, and then I go about starting a new relationship that has been re-tooled to protect myself from past hurts with that person.

I speak of my family memebers, I tend to cut off friends who betray me since I find them to be less likely to change.

having issues with others

is just like havin prollums

if you try to remember whut

youor biggest prollum was

a moth ago, 90% of the time

you won't remember.

after one realises this

it can work by the week and day

once you can do the set aside

one finds it easier to more fully

forgive...

fully forgiving goes a long way

toward fully healin one's self.

not forgiving, only hurts the unforgiving.

Okay...I'm not looking for some religious philosophy or anything. I just noticed that I dont let go of some things to0 easily. Like if somebody seriously hurt me as a child, and I had a chance 20 years later to run them over without ever getting caught...I would find that option alluring.

I tip my hat to those that can forgive, and I know I have tried. And I'm generally chill...but there are those people I just want to push off of a cliff. Some shit never goes away....its like a fresh new wound at the mere sight of the offender. And when I feel that anger I'm like, shit--this is still bothering me? So apparently, I dont forgive much, I just store shit away until it is again relevant. I've heard it said that in order to forgive, one must forget. I dont forget most things, I couldn't if I tried. How do you put out those feelings that just make you wish you could run somebody over?

i can forgive, but i never forget, and i don't trust that person again. when i went to court for the trial of the man that tried to murder me i read my victims impact statement and i told him in the courtroom that i forgive him. and i truly do forgive him, i even pray for him.

there is a family member of mine that has done awlful things to me my entire life, i forgive her all the time, she suffers from mental illness, and i try to be understanding. but i never trust her. and i keep my distance from this person as much as i can to protect my family from being hurt by her.

i have several people on my mom's side of the family that don't forgive, that hold onto anger for YEARS! and they are all miserable people that don't seem to lead happy lives in any way. i don't ever want to be like that.

KingBAD said:

having issues with others

is just like havin prollums

if you try to remember whut

youor biggest prollum was

a moth ago, 90% of the time

you won't remember.

after one realises this

it can work by the week and day

once you can do the set aside

one finds it easier to more fully

forgive...

fully forgiving goes a long way

toward fully healin one's self.

not forgiving, only hurts the unforgiving.

Yeah.... I like this right here^^ .

I really like this thread BTW... forgivness is something I work on continually.

I learned to let go of trying to have control over a situation and allowed myself to understand what ever happens is not my fault. I can not control other people and I can not push everyone away or even fix them.

So I learn to just tell people what hurts if they do hurt me moving forward and let go of trying to feel so safe. I slip up often and pull away from people, most of all my siblings.

I am glad to read all of these thoughtful posts... they are very helpful and remind me that happy times is what I should focus on. I tend to forget that.

I am all about the 3 strike rule ya see....

I dew always forgive but, I was told, I dew not have to forget.

1 Person I said to, this (above), and only gave 2 strikes to but, was a 'r all the dayumn

time...so only 2 strikes for this 1. Very disrespectful and I dew not handle disrespectfullness very

well.

I dew find myself a very kind person...Very Kind so never hold things in or dwell on them for

long periods of time. Way to much positive energy wasted on that kinda thing.

Waste of my kindness as well so, be off w/ya.