SUPRMAN said:

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

Well there's survival of the fittest in the animal kingdom. But we're taking it to a whole new level. You're convinced that IS HUMAN NATURE rather than conditioning?

I don't. I think its conditioning. If it were human nature there wouldn't be societies who commune void of aggression.

Violence in societies is a result of numbers. Whether chimps, apes or people, the easiest inducer of violence is increased population.

About half of all of us now live in urban areas.

I believe that there were some lab studies done with animals where they placed some in crowded living quarters, and they showed more violent/abnormal tendencies.

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

SUPRMAN said:

I disagree. Children will hit without ever being hit or spanked. They don't hit because their parents spank them.

nooooo, babies do not come out of the womb hitting just like they don't come out walking, talking and asking for designer sneakers--all learned behavior. the more aggressive the environment the more aggressive the child whether mentally or physically.

They don't come out of the womb doing it, but they do it. Maybe your children didn't. I don't know.

SUPRMAN said:

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

nooooo, babies do not come out of the womb hitting just like they don't come out walking, talking and asking for designer sneakers--all learned behavior. the more aggressive the environment the more aggressive the child whether mentally or physically.

They don't come out of the womb doing it, but they do it. Maybe your children didn't. I don't know.

ok so babies, kick and scratch...but i'm saying the intent, thought, of doing harm is not there.

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

SUPRMAN said:

They don't come out of the womb doing it, but they do it. Maybe your children didn't. I don't know.

ok so babies, kick and scratch...but i'm saying the intent, thought, of doing harm is not there.

Children certainly do it with intent when they are older. Even if they've never been spanked.

At what age do they have the requisite intent? I think it's there pretty young.

Of course it's not frequent behavior but watch children when they are unaware they are being watched.

SUPRMAN said:

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

ok so babies, kick and scratch...but i'm saying the intent, thought, of doing harm is not there.

Children certainly do it with intent when they are older. Even if they've never been spanked.

At what age do they have the requisite intent? I think it's there pretty young.

Of course it's not frequent behavior but watch children when they are unaware they are being watched.

nuff said...

SUPRMAN said:

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

ok so babies, kick and scratch...but i'm saying the intent, thought, of doing harm is not there.

Children certainly do it with intent when they are older. Even if they've never been spanked.

At what age do they have the requisite intent? I think it's there pretty young.

Of course it's not frequent behavior but watch children when they are unaware they are being watched.

I for one, have seen my fair share of children whose parents have never raised a hand to them turn around and hit their parents/elders.

My ex's nephew was a spoiled little brat. Mommy rarely ever even reprimanded him.

And he knew how to throw a punch. At his mother even.

I saw him recently (17 or 18 now) and for all intents & purposes he appears to be a well-mannered and even-tempered teenager (at least on the day that I saw him) but he seems to lack "people skills" (very quiet/withdrawn) so who knows what lurks within.

Anyway...I recommend that if you really wish to pursue this train of thought, volunteer some time in a day care facility and THEN come back and tell us what is or isn't in a child's "nature".

PurpleJedi said:

SUPRMAN said:

Children certainly do it with intent when they are older. Even if they've never been spanked.

At what age do they have the requisite intent? I think it's there pretty young.

Of course it's not frequent behavior but watch children when they are unaware they are being watched.

I for one, have seen my fair share of children whose parents have never raised a hand to them turn around and hit their parents/elders.

My ex's nephew was a spoiled little brat. Mommy rarely ever even reprimanded him.

And he knew how to throw a punch. At his mother even.

I saw him recently (17 or 18 now) and for all intents & purposes he appears to be a well-mannered and even-tempered teenager (at least on the day that I saw him) but he seems to lack "people skills" (very quiet/withdrawn) so who knows what lurks within.

Anyway...I recommend that if you really wish to pursue this train of thought, volunteer some time in a day care facility and THEN come back and tell us what is or isn't in a child's "nature".

Thanks for all the wonderful, thoughtful and interesting insights. Appears this thread has run its course. Not so sure I'll volunteer at a day care, but I continue to observe.

just a parting thought....there's instinct and then learned behavior.

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

Thanks for all the wonderful, thoughtful and interesting insights. Appears this thread has run its course. Not so sure I'll volunteer at a day care, but I continue to observe.

Do I sense just a tad bit of sarcasm there...?

Don't MAKE me have to stop this car and fishslap you!

Aww hell why not.

PurpleJedi said:

WhatdoUwantme2do said:

Thanks for all the wonderful, thoughtful and interesting insights. Appears this thread has run its course. Not so sure I'll volunteer at a day care, but I continue to observe.

Do I sense just a tad bit of sarcasm there...?

Don't MAKE me have to stop this car and fishslap you!

Aww hell why not.

no sarcasm there; I meant every word I typed just didn't want to

One favor if I may? please don't add me to your list