HotGritz said:

SUPRMAN said:

No you are wrong.

As many times as it has been posted here in the Org.

THIS STUDY IS BULLSHIT. WHENEVER A GROUP WANTS TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR OR AGAINST SOMETHING THEY CAN MANIPULATE DATA TO ACHIEVE THEIR OWN DESIRED OUTCOME. I SAY THEY ARE LYING. I SAY IT COST $999 MILLION PLUS TO KEEP DEATH ROW INMATES ALIVE AND TO BUILD MORE PRISONS TO HOUSE MORE DEATH ROW INMATES. post that on the org as many times as you like.

http://prince.org/msg/105/361396 :

$308 million per execution - the cost of the death penalty

Death penalty costs California $184 million a year, study says

I believe the study, but right now the bad girl in me is asking, "whatever happened to the good old days of just poisoning bad people with arsenic...it's so much cheaper."

I know that sounds real Eye for an Eye Old Testament, but when it comes to protecting kids...I suck at the Christian Great Commandment. I really do.

Shaolin325 said:

JustErin said:

The show is exaggerated, manipulated, a lot of the guests tell tall, tall tales and Dr. Phil specializes in nothing more than common sense...that is when he's actually telling the truth which I believe he has some issues doing.

Basically it's Jerry Springer for middle class housewives.

I'm not saying that people on there don't have problems, I'm saying this shit show is all about ratings and shock value, they manipulate the fuck out of stories.

JustErin thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! I thought I was the only one (I am in my family) that doesn't like him........Of course there are people without common sense, but I dont see how Dr. Phil gets paid to give it out.....just crazy.

Also, on a side note.....there's no way that mother did not know this was happening. For whatever reason she couldn't act.

-

Now I'm really curious to watch a few episodes.

Ottensen said:

HotGritz said:

I believe the study, but right now the bad girl in me is asking, "whatever happened to the good old days of just poisoning bad people with arsenic...it's so much cheaper."

I know that sounds real Eye for an Eye Old Testament, but when it comes to protecting kids...I suck at the Christian Great Commandment. I really do.

Me too. I'm all for fighting fire with fire especially when the end result is I still get burned. If I gotta go at least I take my enemy with me. Letting this pervs run around to repeat offend or letting then sit in a prison watching tv, getting 3 meals a day and getting to read books and expand their horizons is pure bullshit IMO. Our society is not better because we spare their lives when they have already ruined the lives of victim after victim. Look at the costs for keeping them alive, add in the costs for counseling their countless victims, add in the cost for prosecuting them once they are released and offend again, add in the costs of monitoring them once they are realeased, add in the costs for their state sponsored legal defense, add in the cost of prosecuting their victims should those victims grow up to commit the same offense. Sorry but it aint cheaper to keep these turds alive. We're being hustled by the anti-death penalty opponents. Fuck their math and fuck their feelings. I aint the gatdamn Dali Llama and I aint Jesus when it comes to this horribly disgusting filthy ass crime.

HotGritz said:

Ottensen said:

I believe the study, but right now the bad girl in me is asking, "whatever happened to the good old days of just poisoning bad people with arsenic...it's so much cheaper."

I know that sounds real Eye for an Eye Old Testament, but when it comes to protecting kids...I suck at the Christian Great Commandment. I really do.

Me too. I'm all for fighting fire with fire especially when the end result is I still get burned. If I gotta go at least I take my enemy with me. Letting this pervs run around to repeat offend or letting then sit in a prison watching tv, getting 3 meals a day and getting to read books and expand their horizons is pure bullshit IMO. Our society is not better because we spare their lives when they have already ruined the lives of victim after victim. Look at the costs for keeping them alive, add in the costs for counseling their countless victims, add in the cost for prosecuting them once they are released and offend again, add in the costs of monitoring them once they are realeased, add in the costs for their state sponsored legal defense, add in the cost of prosecuting their victims should those victims grow up to commit the same offense. Sorry but it aint cheaper to keep these turds alive. We're being hustled by the anti-death penalty opponents. Fuck their math and fuck their feelings. I aint the gatdamn Dali Llama and I aint Jesus when it comes to this horribly disgusting filthy ass crime.

I didn't even think of that...the cost of dealing with the generational cycle itself. Lawd, this thread makes me so sad.

Another reason to not watch Dr.Phil

Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:

All knowing are we?

No, I am not all knowing. But I've worked on such cases and some mothers and children have told me this myself. Like I said, I know I shouldn't be passing judgement on this woman, but if there is truth in the story of her children, then I personally would not believe her. especially not when she claims to have been obliviant because she was "drugged"...

[Edited 12/15/11 8:16am]

Good Lord, you've had to work through cases like this?

A bit unrelated, but, have you ever seen the movies "Little Children" and "Precious" ?

Many people were in an uproar about these films because of plot and sexual content, bit I felt they presented a very frank voice regarding abuse...in a way that makes you think...abuse and abusers aren't faceless people experiencing something that's "someone else's problem" in these movies...

HotGritz said:

SUPRMAN said:

No you are wrong.

As many times as it has been posted here in the Org.

THIS STUDY IS BULLSHIT. WHENEVER A GROUP WANTS TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR OR AGAINST SOMETHING THEY CAN MANIPULATE DATA TO ACHIEVE THEIR OWN DESIRED OUTCOME. I SAY THEY ARE LYING. I SAY IT COST $999 MILLION PLUS TO KEEP DEATH ROW INMATES ALIVE AND TO BUILD MORE PRISONS TO HOUSE MORE DEATH ROW INMATES. post that on the org as many times as you like.

http://prince.org/msg/105/361396 :

$308 million per execution - the cost of the death penalty

Death penalty costs California $184 million a year, study says

So show us what it actually cost to house an inmate for life v. execution.

My guess is you won't try.

HotGritz said:

Ottensen said:

I believe the study, but right now the bad girl in me is asking, "whatever happened to the good old days of just poisoning bad people with arsenic...it's so much cheaper."

I know that sounds real Eye for an Eye Old Testament, but when it comes to protecting kids...I suck at the Christian Great Commandment. I really do.

Me too. I'm all for fighting fire with fire especially when the end result is I still get burned. If I gotta go at least I take my enemy with me. Letting this pervs run around to repeat offend or letting then sit in a prison watching tv, getting 3 meals a day and getting to read books and expand their horizons is pure bullshit IMO. Our society is not better because we spare their lives when they have already ruined the lives of victim after victim. Look at the costs for keeping them alive, add in the costs for counseling their countless victims, add in the cost for prosecuting them once they are released and offend again, add in the costs of monitoring them once they are realeased, add in the costs for their state sponsored legal defense, add in the cost of prosecuting their victims should those victims grow up to commit the same offense. Sorry but it aint cheaper to keep these turds alive. We're being hustled by the anti-death penalty opponents. Fuck their math and fuck their feelings. I aint the gatdamn Dali Llama and I aint Jesus when it comes to this horribly disgusting filthy ass crime.

What are those costs in actual dollars?

It is cheaper. Saying otherwise doesn't change the facts.

You just don't want to acknowledge the facts that conflict with your beliefs.

Ottensen said:

HotGritz said:

Me too. I'm all for fighting fire with fire especially when the end result is I still get burned. If I gotta go at least I take my enemy with me. Letting this pervs run around to repeat offend or letting then sit in a prison watching tv, getting 3 meals a day and getting to read books and expand their horizons is pure bullshit IMO. Our society is not better because we spare their lives when they have already ruined the lives of victim after victim. Look at the costs for keeping them alive, add in the costs for counseling their countless victims, add in the cost for prosecuting them once they are released and offend again, add in the costs of monitoring them once they are realeased, add in the costs for their state sponsored legal defense, add in the cost of prosecuting their victims should those victims grow up to commit the same offense. Sorry but it aint cheaper to keep these turds alive. We're being hustled by the anti-death penalty opponents. Fuck their math and fuck their feelings. I aint the gatdamn Dali Llama and I aint Jesus when it comes to this horribly disgusting filthy ass crime.

I didn't even think of that...the cost of dealing with the generational cycle itself. Lawd, this thread makes me so sad.

That cost is x. No way to determine what that is.

Are you trying to put a dollar amount on emotional, psychological harm?

You can't.

SUPRMAN said:

Ottensen said:

I didn't even think of that...the cost of dealing with the generational cycle itself. Lawd, this thread makes me so sad.

That cost is x. No way to determine what that is.

Are you trying to put a dollar amount on emotional, psychological harm?

You can't.

Actually....the courts put dollar amounts on emotional and psychological harm all of the time, and it can be astronomical.......and the judges often feel the amounts awarded with completely insufficient. I too disagree....kill the fucking bastards.

and if you want to argue your point, perhaps you should start a thread of your own on it so it get detailed......this thread is about the episode on Dr. Phil, not about if the death penalty is more cost effective than life in prison......

SUPRMAN said:

Ottensen said:

I didn't even think of that...the cost of dealing with the generational cycle itself. Lawd, this thread makes me so sad.

That cost is x. No way to determine what that is.

Are you trying to put a dollar amount on emotional, psychological harm?

You can't.

you know,

if you take the amount of cocaine and haroin that's taken off the streets

and divide it by how much of that comes up missin out of evience

the cost of capital punishment can be covered with the remainder of

the dope they have (haha)

it can't be concidered crewel or unusual

it's just a way to divert the cost of disroyin the dope

and just think

a lot more inmates will decline to appeal their cases...

ah, life in the american system.

all these easy answers to prollums, but they would

rather kill us on the streets with that crap. this goverment makes the money

either way you look at it. and either way you go, an innocent man will die.

made for tv executions

StillGotIt said:

SUPRMAN said:

That cost is x. No way to determine what that is.

Are you trying to put a dollar amount on emotional, psychological harm?

You can't.

Actually....the courts put dollar amounts on emotional and psychological harm all of the time, and it can be astronomical.......and the judges often feel the amounts awarded with completely insufficient. I too disagree....kill the fucking bastards.

and if you want to argue your point, perhaps you should start a thread of your own on it so it get detailed......this thread is about the episode on Dr. Phil, not about if the death penalty is more cost effective than life in prison......

The cost of any damages cannot be astronomical. Ask Exxon and the SCOTUS.

Guess we're blessed that none of us are God.

so damn sad....

StillGotIt said:

RufusRawfield said:

Sick fucker, really, really sick...especailly the part about inviting his buddies to fuck his daughters.

one thing though that sounds a bit odd...how come those rapists fuck their victims likke, 4 or 5 times a day? I mean they mostly old aint they? Old dudes barely get their limp dicks hard butt those rapist dudes in the news often rape their victims quite often., and regularly. kinda strange.

so how much prison time will he be doing?

he got 3 life sentences....but I'm sorry.....death penalty would have been more appropriate. Nobody should have to pay taxes so his sick ass could remain breathing...

don't be sorry, he needs to be executed, swiftly

paintedlady said:

Purplestar88 said:

The mother knew. Before they got married the man told her he molested someone before. She still married him. She was upset but he convinced her he would not harm their children. So she did have knowledge that he was a molester. Her eyes should have been wide open.

So she basically turned a blind eye since she loved his sex.

I am disgusted beyond belief.

and maybe not so much a blind eye, as the belief that no one is doing anything WRONG..its unfortunate that some parents do not recognize the wrong they do..without too much detail.. my own mother who separately dated brothers (older one first, then when that broke off, the younger one) never believed anything until..

despite the fact my sister told my mother about the older one abusing the 3 youngest girls, she didnt believe a word untill the same male started messing around with a friend of my moms who was staying there( she was grown) its strange, how mad she when she WANTED to believe..tho she still never turned his ass in..me and my other 2 sisters learned early on there was no help at home..my mom then dated the younger brother, who really had a penchant for beating helpless little kids..and she never saw a f**kin thing wrong with it..she lied under oath to a judges face in defense of him..i guess it WAS a GOOD thing there were bruises on me to say different..state of florida kept sending us back..he was also molesting my next oldest sister who has epilepsy and cerebal palsey..got her pregnant, and DNA proved it was his kid..she stood by her 'man' tho.. and shat upon her children in favor of him..the child was adopted out..she is still with this garbage till this day..happily taking every insult he throws at her as a compliment..

i have never seen someone so happy to be called worthless in my life..but he could be right about that one..

and much later i discovered things about those times that even i wont talk about..except to say there were many times she set me up to be alone with him..

its a wonder im not a criminal

Number23 said:

You googled 'parental rape'?

peb319 said:

paintedlady said:

So she basically turned a blind eye since she loved his sex.

I am disgusted beyond belief.

and maybe not so much a blind eye, as the belief that no one is doing anything WRONG..its unfortunate that some parents do not recognize the wrong they do..without too much detail.. my own mother who separately dated brothers (older one first, then when that broke off, the younger one) never believed anything until..

despite the fact my sister told my mother about the older one abusing the 3 youngest girls, she didnt believe a word untill the same male started messing around with a friend of my moms who was staying there( she was grown) its strange, how mad she when she WANTED to believe..tho she still never turned his ass in..me and my other 2 sisters learned early on there was no help at home..my mom then dated the younger brother, who really had a penchant for beating helpless little kids..and she never saw a f**kin thing wrong with it..she lied under oath to a judges face in defense of him..i guess it WAS a GOOD thing there were bruises on me to say different..state of florida kept sending us back..he was also molesting my next oldest sister who has epilepsy and cerebal palsey..got her pregnant, and DNA proved it was his kid..she stood by her 'man' tho.. and shat upon her children in favor of him..the child was adopted out..she is still with this garbage till this day..happily taking every insult he throws at her as a compliment..

i have never seen someone so happy to be called worthless in my life..but he could be right about that one..

and much later i discovered things about those times that even i wont talk about..except to say there were many times she set me up to be alone with him..

its a wonder im not a criminal

Jesus.

I had no idea.

peb319 said:

paintedlady said:

So she basically turned a blind eye since she loved his sex.

I am disgusted beyond belief.

and maybe not so much a blind eye, as the belief that no one is doing anything WRONG..its unfortunate that some parents do not recognize the wrong they do..without too much detail.. my own mother who separately dated brothers (older one first, then when that broke off, the younger one) never believed anything until..

despite the fact my sister told my mother about the older one abusing the 3 youngest girls, she didnt believe a word untill the same male started messing around with a friend of my moms who was staying there( she was grown) its strange, how mad she when she WANTED to believe..tho she still never turned his ass in..me and my other 2 sisters learned early on there was no help at home..my mom then dated the younger brother, who really had a penchant for beating helpless little kids..and she never saw a f**kin thing wrong with it..she lied under oath to a judges face in defense of him..i guess it WAS a GOOD thing there were bruises on me to say different..state of florida kept sending us back..he was also molesting my next oldest sister who has epilepsy and cerebal palsey..got her pregnant, and DNA proved it was his kid..she stood by her 'man' tho.. and shat upon her children in favor of him..the child was adopted out..she is still with this garbage till this day..happily taking every insult he throws at her as a compliment..

i have never seen someone so happy to be called worthless in my life..but he could be right about that one..

and much later i discovered things about those times that even i wont talk about..except to say there were many times she set me up to be alone with him..

its a wonder im not a criminal

Why would any mother....

You are an inspiration... full of strength to be able to live past all that and still be sane and full of joy in your heart. Wow.

paintedlady said:

peb319 said:

and maybe not so much a blind eye, as the belief that no one is doing anything WRONG..its unfortunate that some parents do not recognize the wrong they do..without too much detail.. my own mother who separately dated brothers (older one first, then when that broke off, the younger one) never believed anything until..

despite the fact my sister told my mother about the older one abusing the 3 youngest girls, she didnt believe a word untill the same male started messing around with a friend of my moms who was staying there( she was grown) its strange, how mad she when she WANTED to believe..tho she still never turned his ass in..me and my other 2 sisters learned early on there was no help at home..my mom then dated the younger brother, who really had a penchant for beating helpless little kids..and she never saw a f**kin thing wrong with it..she lied under oath to a judges face in defense of him..i guess it WAS a GOOD thing there were bruises on me to say different..state of florida kept sending us back..he was also molesting my next oldest sister who has epilepsy and cerebal palsey..got her pregnant, and DNA proved it was his kid..she stood by her 'man' tho.. and shat upon her children in favor of him..the child was adopted out..she is still with this garbage till this day..happily taking every insult he throws at her as a compliment..

i have never seen someone so happy to be called worthless in my life..but he could be right about that one..

and much later i discovered things about those times that even i wont talk about..except to say there were many times she set me up to be alone with him..

its a wonder im not a criminal

Why would any mother....

You are an inspiration... full of strength to be able to live past all that and still be sane and full of joy in your heart. Wow.

You're an inspiration, too, painted.

[img:$uid]http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y60/jonwolslau/2kheub.jpg[/img:$uid]

PunkMistress said:

paintedlady said:

Why would any mother....

You are an inspiration... full of strength to be able to live past all that and still be sane and full of joy in your heart. Wow.

You're an inspiration, too, painted.

Right back at cha, you sexy bitch you.

SUPRMAN said:

HotGritz said:

Me too. I'm all for fighting fire with fire especially when the end result is I still get burned. If I gotta go at least I take my enemy with me. Letting this pervs run around to repeat offend or letting then sit in a prison watching tv, getting 3 meals a day and getting to read books and expand their horizons is pure bullshit IMO. Our society is not better because we spare their lives when they have already ruined the lives of victim after victim. Look at the costs for keeping them alive, add in the costs for counseling their countless victims, add in the cost for prosecuting them once they are released and offend again, add in the costs of monitoring them once they are realeased, add in the costs for their state sponsored legal defense, add in the cost of prosecuting their victims should those victims grow up to commit the same offense. Sorry but it aint cheaper to keep these turds alive. We're being hustled by the anti-death penalty opponents. Fuck their math and fuck their feelings. I aint the gatdamn Dali Llama and I aint Jesus when it comes to this horribly disgusting filthy ass crime.

What are those costs in actual dollars?

It is cheaper. Saying otherwise doesn't change the facts.

You just don't want to acknowledge the facts that conflict with your beliefs.

1. It would vary by inmate and by state/institution in which they are housed. Something your beloved execution factoids overlook. This is common sense really. The costs of either executions or keeping deathrow inmates alive cannot truly be determined but one thing for sure is that a living person will always costs more than a dead person. Dead people don't eat, they don't use electricity, they don't receive medical care, they don't receive education, they don't receive psychiatric treatment, they don't require monitoring during visitation with family or attorneys, they don't incur legal bills, you dont have to pay the salaries of the guard that watch them. I mean good god is this really too hard to comprehend?

You are against the death penalty so anything that supports your position regardless of the math or the omitted points, you will jump on it. Back atcha playa!

HotGritz said:

SUPRMAN said:

What are those costs in actual dollars?

It is cheaper. Saying otherwise doesn't change the facts.

You just don't want to acknowledge the facts that conflict with your beliefs.

1. It would vary by inmate and by state/institution in which they are housed. Something your beloved execution factoids overlook. This is common sense really. The costs of either executions or keeping deathrow inmates alive cannot truly be determined but one thing for sure is that a living person will always costs more than a dead person. Dead people don't eat, they don't use electricity, they don't receive medical care, they don't receive education, they don't receive psychiatric treatment, they don't require monitoring during visitation with family or attorneys, they don't incur legal bills, you dont have to pay the salaries of the guard that watch them. I mean good god is this really too hard to comprehend?

You are against the death penalty so anything that supports your position regardless of the math or the omitted points, you will jump on it. Back atcha playa!

he's trapped by his literalist mind. He cannot see past the agenda the Mental Prisonwarden dictates

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HotGritz said:

1. It would vary by inmate and by state/institution in which they are housed. Something your beloved execution factoids overlook. This is common sense really. The costs of either executions or keeping deathrow inmates alive cannot truly be determined but one thing for sure is that a living person will always costs more than a dead person. Dead people don't eat, they don't use electricity, they don't receive medical care, they don't receive education, they don't receive psychiatric treatment, they don't require monitoring during visitation with family or attorneys, they don't incur legal bills, you dont have to pay the salaries of the guard that watch them. I mean good god is this really too hard to comprehend?

You are against the death penalty so anything that supports your position regardless of the math or the omitted points, you will jump on it. Back atcha playa!

he's trapped by his literalist mind. He cannot see past the agenda the Mental Prisonwarden dictates

Have I told you lately how awesome you are?

HotGritz said:

SUPRMAN said:

What are those costs in actual dollars?

It is cheaper. Saying otherwise doesn't change the facts.

You just don't want to acknowledge the facts that conflict with your beliefs.

1. It would vary by inmate and by state/institution in which they are housed. Something your beloved execution factoids overlook. This is common sense really. The costs of either executions or keeping deathrow inmates alive cannot truly be determined but one thing for sure is that a living person will always costs more than a dead person. Dead people don't eat, they don't use electricity, they don't receive medical care, they don't receive education, they don't receive psychiatric treatment, they don't require monitoring during visitation with family or attorneys, they don't incur legal bills, you dont have to pay the salaries of the guard that watch them. I mean good god is this really too hard to comprehend?

You are against the death penalty so anything that supports your position regardless of the math or the omitted points, you will jump on it. Back atcha playa!

That's all conjecture and speculation.

You are more wedded to capital punishment than I am to life imprisonment.

You choose to ignore facts or dismiss then because they don't support your belief in executions.

Show me that it costs less to execute in any state than life imprisonment. ANY state. Please.

Why do you think that the cost of life imprisonment v. execution can't be determined when everything you cite is billable and someone will be paid?

Someone pays for it, so it can be accounted for and measured against the costs of life imprisonment.

Give me facts, not your strong beliefs. Believe what you will but I need facts to be persuaded and you aren't going to offer any are you?

HotGritz said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

he's trapped by his literalist mind. He cannot see past the agenda the Mental Prisonwarden dictates

Have I told you lately how awesome you are?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HotGritz said:

1. It would vary by inmate and by state/institution in which they are housed. Something your beloved execution factoids overlook. This is common sense really. The costs of either executions or keeping deathrow inmates alive cannot truly be determined but one thing for sure is that a living person will always costs more than a dead person. Dead people don't eat, they don't use electricity, they don't receive medical care, they don't receive education, they don't receive psychiatric treatment, they don't require monitoring during visitation with family or attorneys, they don't incur legal bills, you dont have to pay the salaries of the guard that watch them. I mean good god is this really too hard to comprehend?

You are against the death penalty so anything that supports your position regardless of the math or the omitted points, you will jump on it. Back atcha playa!

he's trapped by his literalist mind. He cannot see past the agenda the Mental Prisonwarden dictates

Neither of you can show anyone facts that support the idea that the death penalty is cheaper than life imprisonment.

SUPRMAN said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

he's trapped by his literalist mind. He cannot see past the agenda the Mental Prisonwarden dictates

Neither of you can show anyone facts that support the idea that the death penalty is cheaper than life imprisonment.

The ONLY reason DP would be more expensive is because of the decades long appeal process.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

SUPRMAN said:

Neither of you can show anyone facts that support the idea that the death penalty is cheaper than life imprisonment.

The ONLY reason DP would be more expensive is because of the decades long appeal process.

Exactly! Supr knows this. Hell, everyone knows this.

I still argue that its not more expensive because the true cost cannot be determined since all DP cases are not handled the same nor take the same amount of time. Also, not all states have the DP so how can we say that it is more expensive than keeping inmates alive? So the potential execution of roughly 3200 death row inmates in 34 states is more costly than keeping 2 million plus inmates in all 50 states alive when those inmates can live to be in their 80s/90s?

Some people can't see the forest for the trees and some people take any statistic as gospel without using their own common sense.

HotGritz said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

The ONLY reason DP would be more expensive is because of the decades long appeal process.

Exactly! Supr knows this. Hell, everyone knows this.

I still argue that its not more expensive because the true cost cannot be determined since all DP cases are not handled the same nor take the same amount of time. Also, not all states have the DP so how can we say that it is more expensive than keeping inmates alive? So the potential execution of roughly 3200 death row inmates in 34 states is more costly than keeping 2 million plus inmates in all 50 states alive when those inmates can live to be in their 80s/90s?

Some people can't see the forest for the trees and some people take any statistic as gospel without using their own common sense.

"you know,

if you take the amount of cocaine and haroin that's taken off the streets

and divide it by how much of that comes up missin out of evience

the cost of capital punishment can be covered with the remainder of

the dope they have (haha)

it can't be concidered crewel or unusual

it's just a way to divert the cost of disroyin the dope

and just think

a lot more inmates will decline to appeal their cases...

ah, life in the american system.

all these easy answers to prollums, but they would

rather kill us on the streets with that crap. this goverment makes the money

either way you look at it. and either way you go, an innocent man will die."

the amount they save in the distructiom of drugs

can go to pay for the appeals process...