I've been reading a lot of Shapespeare recently. I read a couple of his plays when I was a bout twelve, which was probably way too early, and needless to say, I didn't really like them, as I didn't know much about how witty and historically interesting his metaphors were.

Now I feel in love with him. Romeo & Juliet, Hamlet and his Sonnets are ridiculously good. I'm re-reading them all the time and finding new brilliant details every time.

Do you know his work?

Do you like it?

What's your favourite work of his?

Do you think (young) people should read Shakespeare?/Do you think it is valuable to (English) culture?

.

[Edited 12/5/11 10:29am]

Dave1992 said:

I've been reading a lot of Shapespeare recently. I read a couple of his plays when I was a bout twelve, which was probably way too early, and needless to say, I didn't really like them, as I didn't know much about how witty and historically interesting his metaphors were.

Now I feel in love with him. Romeo & Juliet, Hamlet and his Sonnets are ridiculously good. I'm re-reading them all the time and finding new brilliant details every time.

Do you know his work?

Do you like it?

What's your favourite work of his?

Do you think (young) people should read Shakespeare?/Do you think it is valuable to (English) culture?

I do know his work, although not as well as I'd like. His command of the English language was unparalleled.

I'm reading "As You Like It" right now.

Everyone should read Shakespeare at some point!

[Edited 12/2/11 5:31am]

when my father was alive, he taught college level shakespeare. i'm nowhere near as expert as he was, but i do appreciate me some willy s.

r.i.p. dad, i miss you

I just love Shakespeare. I love Hamlet, King Lear, The Tempest, Macbeth, Taming of the Shrew, A Midsummer's Night's Dream. (Those are probably my favorites.)

Oddly enough, I have worked in all those shows except Macbeth.

I love Shakespeare. Sadly, I have not had the chance to do a Shakespeare play.

Anyway...I think my favorite play is probably Twelfth Night. I saw a production a few years ago by Chicago Shakespeare that was amazing. They did it on a thrust stage - though I use the word "stage" loosely. The entire thrust area was a pool of water of varying depths. It was very deep in the middle, with platforms of varying degrees around the edges. Farther upstage were stairs - and a raked area that looked like the hull of the ship, which was heart shaped.

The way they used the water was amazing. First, the costumes were traditional, Elizabethan-looking affairs - but they stopped at the knees (for wading purposes). The only characters who were clothed all the way down were Olivia and Malvolio. From that - and the depths to which other characters would enter the water - I realized that the water was meant to symbolize love. Some characters - like Viola - actually plunged into the deep part of the pool. Their hearts were open and they could receive and give love. Others waded in only as deeply as their knees. And Malvolio - poor Malvolio - did his entire monologue suspended above the pool, with his toes just barely able to touch the water. He believes himself to be in love, but is incapable of it. He never gets to the love.

It was pretty spectacular.

I love the sonnets, too. They are really the only Shakespeare that I actually enjoy reading. I'm trained in reading Shakespeare (there's knack to unpacking the rhythm), but I much prefer to see the plays performed.

he's all right

Shakespeare is almost a different language at this point. It's pretty difficult for me to watch his plays once and just "get" them.

Reading is a little better, and of course, once you know the basic story, then you can start to peel back the layers.

It's as if the entire play is a poem (it actually is in some cases) and it is just so dense. You could take any ten lines of Shakespeare and study them by themselves.

It's work, but definitely rewarding. Unfortunately I am not always up for that challenge. But over the course of my life I have seen and read as much Shakespeare as virtually any writer...except maybe Stephen King

Do you know his work? YES

Do you like it? I OWN MANY OF HIS PLAYS. I'VE READ THEM ALL. 4 or 5 LEFT ME COLD SO I DIDN'T BUY THEM

What's your favourite work of his? JULIUS CAESAR / HAMLET / MACBETH

Do you think (young) people should read Shakespeare?/culture? I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. I MEAN, TO EACH HIS OWN. BUT, PERSONALLY, I JUST CAN'T TRUST THOSE WHO DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HIS WORK... "haa! he sucks"..."soooo boring", "meh"... WTF?????

Do you think it is valuable to (English) culture? WAS THAT A RHETORICAL QUESTION?, lol SHAKESPEARE IS UNIVERSAL/TIMELESS

Genesia said:

I love Shakespeare. Sadly, I have not had the chance to do a Shakespeare play.

Anyway...I think my favorite play is probably Twelfth Night. I saw a production a few years ago by Chicago Shakespeare that was amazing. They did it on a thrust stage - though I use the word "stage" loosely. The entire thrust area was a pool of water of varying depths. It was very deep in the middle, with platforms of varying degrees around the edges. Farther upstage were stairs - and a raked area that looked like the hull of the ship, which was heart shaped.

The way they used the water was amazing. First, the costumes were traditional, Elizabethan-looking affairs - but they stopped at the knees (for wading purposes). The only characters who were clothed all the way down were Olivia and Malvolio. From that - and the depths to which other characters would enter the water - I realized that the water was meant to symbolize love. Some characters - like Viola - actually plunged into the deep part of the pool. Their hearts were open and they could receive and give love. Others waded in only as deeply as their knees. And Malvolio - poor Malvolio - did his entire monologue suspended above the pool, with his toes just barely able to touch the water. He believes himself to be in love, but is incapable of it. He never gets to the love.

It was pretty spectacular.

I love the sonnets, too. They are really the only Shakespeare that I actually enjoy reading. I'm trained in reading Shakespeare (there's knack to unpacking the rhythm), but I much prefer to see the plays performed.

Sounds brilliant, really!

[Edited 12/3/11 4:57am]

The narrative and the dialogue are great, but the ye olde engish makes me want to rip out my anus.

Many young people would love the Shakespeare plays if the language wasn't so intimating and to be quite frank , Those academics don't care translate because they use Shakespeare as academic velvet rope. Who uses ye olde english anymore?

[Edited 12/3/11 13:52pm]

He was a genius, no doubt about that (and I don't use that word lightly).....and I don't believe any of those stupid conspiracy theories that he didn't do them.

He had such a deep knowledge of the psychology and the human condition....way ahead of his time...and he had a beautiful and creative way with words..

I've visited the house and gardens where he grew up (Stratford Upon Avon) and where he courted his first love, it was amazing walking in the same garden that he would have been growing up in, 500 years on.

On a side note, I always found that Joseph Fiennes looks just like D&P era Prince in Shakespeare in Love.....(but that film was hogwash in terms of story).

[Edited 12/3/11 14:43pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

He had such a deep knowledge of the psychology and the human condition....way ahead of his time...and he had a beautiful and creative way with words..

On a side note, I always found that Joseph Fiennes looks just like D&P era Prince in Shakespeare in Love.....(but that film was hogwash in terms of story).

true true, Shakespy was a man of the modern times, after the darkness and bullshit of the medieval times, which were about wars, superstition, misguided religious dogmas and property, with no psychology/humanism...that's why the vast majority of the medieval literature is just plain unreadable, Shakespeare changed the rules of the game forever...

and yes, J.Fiennes looks exactly like Prince circa 1991-93, I started a thread about it two years ago, but the mods closed it due to the insults and the hysterical replies

formallypickles said:

The narrative and the dialogue are great, but the ye olde engish makes me want to rip out my anus.

Many young people would love the Shakespeare plays if the language wasn't so intimating and to be quite frank , Those academics don't care translate because they use Shakespeare as academic velvet rope. Who uses ye olde english anymore?

[Edited 12/3/11 13:52pm]

I get what you mean, but to me the language is part of the aesthetics of the whole experience.

And, as a linguist, I also simply enjoy reading and decoding different languages.

You're a linguist, Dave?

I studied English & German literature double major at university. So Shakespeare is like a god to me. Unrealistic to have a full & deep convo about Shakespeare on an internet forum like this, but I'll just mention a couple of my faves-

Othello

Merchant of Venice

^Those represent how light yrs ahead he was in understanding race relations and human psychology, and what a progressive he was in his compassion for "the other" and his enlightened views on how we sabotage ourselves and let ourselves become victims, both oppressors and victims alike. In a totally anti-semitc world, he was able to expose the hypocrisy of it, and portray a jew as a person, not a caricature. I think the merchant's daughter (Jessica?) is represented so realistically, she's so conflicted and longing to be free of this "us-them" bullshit. I can relate b/c I am a minority in the US. And Othello - his portrayal of the insecurities, desires and fears of a dark-skinned man, no matter how powerful, is so spot on. And all the dynamics going on there, his white wife, his white servant. This guy was given the gift of human understanding from a higher power, I tell ya!

I think that some modern movies portray the essence of Shakespeare's plays very well (although they're condensed, simplified, and don't use his language completely or at all - and, as you say, the language has a life of it's own, it's not what's being said alone, but also how it's being said, so eloquently). Those movies are "O" (modernized take on "Othello") and "Romeo + Juliet" (the movie makes Romeo the "star" giving him extra scenes that are not in the play - Shakespeare found women complex & fascinating and Juliet is actually the "rounder" character in the play, she is more conflicted and has more of a backstory, her family dynamics. Also Leo DiCaprio wasn't a great actor then, I think he's great now, but not then, so he overplays his lines and yells a lot).

Small comment - I did my senior thesis on American verse drama. The use of verse instead of prose is like the use of special effects today - it uses something that's unrealistic (people breaking out into poetry and/or rhyme) to convey a heightened experience. The scene in "Romeo + Juliet" when they 1st meet, they start speaking in verse, each alternating a line - to condense & convey the idea that they are soulmates, and that there is mega sexual tension, and I love how Baz Luhrman shows this by adding the swirling camera and the music.

Shakespeare's sonnets - just brilliant. Nothing comes close. I love how progressive and egalitarian he is in the love sonnets. "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun..." is a response to the tradition of love poetry that would go on & on about a woman's looks, "her lips are like cherries, her eyes like stars," etc. - he's like, my woman's not like that, but I love her! my love is real! How cool is that? He coined the idea that true love is a "meeting of the minds."

Alright, I gotta stop. One last note, since this is a Prince site - Andy's words do NOT flow like a Shakespearean sonnet. Man, that line would piss me off except that it's so laughable.

artist76 said:

You're a linguist, Dave?

I studied English & German literature double major at university. So Shakespeare is like a god to me. Unrealistic to have a full & deep convo about Shakespeare on an internet forum like this, but I'll just mention a couple of my faves-

Othello

Merchant of Venice

^Those represent how light yrs ahead he was in understanding race relations and human psychology, and what a progressive he was in his compassion for "the other" and his enlightened views on how we sabotage ourselves and let ourselves become victims, both oppressors and victims alike. In a totally anti-semitc world, he was able to expose the hypocrisy of it, and portray a jew as a person, not a caricature. I think the merchant's daughter (Jessica?) is represented so realistically, she's so conflicted and longing to be free of this "us-them" bullshit. I can relate b/c I am a minority in the US. And Othello - his portrayal of the insecurities, desires and fears of a dark-skinned man, no matter how powerful, is so spot on. And all the dynamics going on there, his white wife, his white servant. This guy was given the gift of human understanding from a higher power, I tell ya!

I think that some modern movies portray the essence of Shakespeare's plays very well (although they're condensed, simplified, and don't use his language completely or at all - and, as you say, the language has a life of it's own, it's not what's being said alone, but also how it's being said, so eloquently). Those movies are "O" (modernized take on "Othello") and "Romeo + Juliet" (the movie makes Romeo the "star" giving him extra scenes that are not in the play - Shakespeare found women complex & fascinating and Juliet is actually the "rounder" character in the play, she is more conflicted and has more of a backstory, her family dynamics. Also Leo DiCaprio wasn't a great actor then, I think he's great now, but not then, so he overplays his lines and yells a lot).

Small comment - I did my senior thesis on American verse drama. The use of verse instead of prose is like the use of special effects today - it uses something that's unrealistic (people breaking out into poetry and/or rhyme) to convey a heightened experience. The scene in "Romeo + Juliet" when they 1st meet, they start speaking in verse, each alternating a line - to condense & convey the idea that they are soulmates, and that there is mega sexual tension, and I love how Baz Luhrman shows this by adding the swirling camera and the music.

Shakespeare's sonnets - just brilliant. Nothing comes close. I love how progressive and egalitarian he is in the love sonnets. "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun..." is a response to the tradition of love poetry that would go on & on about a woman's looks, "her lips are like cherries, her eyes like stars," etc. - he's like, my woman's not like that, but I love her! my love is real! How cool is that? He coined the idea that true love is a "meeting of the minds."

Alright, I gotta stop. One last note, since this is a Prince site - Andy's words do NOT flow like a Shakespearean sonnet. Man, that line would piss me off except that it's so laughable.

I'm studying English and Slavonic studies.

You're absolutely right, Shakespeare was ahead of his time in so many ways. He even captured today's zeitgeist very well, sometimes, and the themes, topics and problems in his works are as relevant as ever.

I adore the scene where Romeo and Juliet first meet. Those are probably my favourite lines:

if i profane with my unworthiest hand
this holy shrine, the gentle fine is this, -
my lips, two blushing pilgrims, ready stand
to smooth that rough touch with a tender kiss.

did my heart love till now? forswear it, sight!
for i ne'er saw true beauty till this night...

Romeo sure was a cool mf; he knew how to win a heart!

Yeah, he definitely was again ahead of his time in his love sonnets, especially Sonnet CXXX. He was also mocking Petrarch and the Italian sonnets. And, actually, he was also dismissing of what was yet to come - metaphysical poetry! I love the old fellow.

Anyone going to see that new Shakespeare fictional Biopic /thriller/ mystery/ movie Anonymous ?

"Th a th ee

thy thor

thy thith ith" richard pryor

Dave1992 said:

Genesia said:

I love Shakespeare. Sadly, I have not had the chance to do a Shakespeare play.

Anyway...I think my favorite play is probably Twelfth Night. I saw a production a few years ago by Chicago Shakespeare that was amazing. They did it on a thrust stage - though I use the word "stage" loosely. The entire thrust area was a pool of water of varying depths. It was very deep in the middle, with platforms of varying degrees around the edges. Farther upstage were stairs - and a raked area that looked like the hull of the ship, which was heart shaped.

The way they used the water was amazing. First, the costumes were traditional, Elizabethan-looking affairs - but they stopped at the knees (for wading purposes). The only characters who were clothed all the way down were Olivia and Malvolio. From that - and the depths to which other characters would enter the water - I realized that the water was meant to symbolize love. Some characters - like Viola - actually plunged into the deep part of the pool. Their hearts were open and they could receive and give love. Others waded in only as deeply as their knees. And Malvolio - poor Malvolio - did his entire monologue suspended above the pool, with his toes just barely able to touch the water. He believes himself to be in love, but is incapable of it. He never gets to the love.

It was pretty spectacular.

I love the sonnets, too. They are really the only Shakespeare that I actually enjoy reading. I'm trained in reading Shakespeare (there's knack to unpacking the rhythm), but I much prefer to see the plays performed.

Sounds brilliant, really!

It was amazing.

My sweetie often travels on business - and wanted a picture of me to take with him. So, some years ago, I had a portrait taken and put it in a folding travel frame, with Sonnet 47 opposite...

Betwixt mine eye and heart a league is took,
And each doth good turns now unto the other:
When that mine eye is famish'd for a look,
Or heart in love with sighs himself doth smother,
With my love's picture then my eye doth feast,
And to the painted banquet bids my heart;
Another time mine eye is my heart's guest,
And in his thoughts of love doth share a part:
So, either by thy picture or my love,
Thy self away, art present still with me;
For thou not farther than my thoughts canst move,
And I am still with them, and they with thee;
Or, if they sleep, thy picture in my sight
Awakes my heart, to heart's and eyes' delight.

NDRU said:

Shakespeare is almost a different language at this point. It's pretty difficult for me to watch his plays once and just "get" them.

Reading is a little better, and of course, once you know the basic story, then you can start to peel back the layers.

It's as if the entire play is a poem (it actually is in some cases) and it is just so dense. You could take any ten lines of Shakespeare and study them by themselves.

It's work, but definitely rewarding. Unfortunately I am not always up for that challenge. But over the course of my life I have seen and read as much Shakespeare as virtually any writer...except maybe Stephen King

(Sorry, not reading the entire thread at this point so this may have been mentioned previously)

When I was reading Shakespeare in college, it was recommended that while reading, have an audio version of the work playing at the same time. Reading it, listening to it and hearing the inflection of the actors' voices to capture the emotion was really helpful.

Nothinbutjoy said:

NDRU said:

Shakespeare is almost a different language at this point. It's pretty difficult for me to watch his plays once and just "get" them.

Reading is a little better, and of course, once you know the basic story, then you can start to peel back the layers.

It's as if the entire play is a poem (it actually is in some cases) and it is just so dense. You could take any ten lines of Shakespeare and study them by themselves.

It's work, but definitely rewarding. Unfortunately I am not always up for that challenge. But over the course of my life I have seen and read as much Shakespeare as virtually any writer...except maybe Stephen King

(Sorry, not reading the entire thread at this point so this may have been mentioned previously)

When I was reading Shakespeare in college, it was recommended that while reading, have an audio version of the work playing at the same time. Reading it, listening to it and hearing the inflection of the actors' voices to capture the emotion was really helpful.

Good idea.

Some actors can really get the words across, too. Kenneth Branagh made Much Ado and Hamlet very easy for me to watch

He is really the only guy who has done Shakespeare and made me laugh (when I was supposed to)

Nothinbutjoy said:

NDRU said:

Shakespeare is almost a different language at this point. It's pretty difficult for me to watch his plays once and just "get" them.

Reading is a little better, and of course, once you know the basic story, then you can start to peel back the layers.

It's as if the entire play is a poem (it actually is in some cases) and it is just so dense. You could take any ten lines of Shakespeare and study them by themselves.

It's work, but definitely rewarding. Unfortunately I am not always up for that challenge. But over the course of my life I have seen and read as much Shakespeare as virtually any writer...except maybe Stephen King

(Sorry, not reading the entire thread at this point so this may have been mentioned previously)

When I was reading Shakespeare in college, it was recommended that while reading, have an audio version of the work playing at the same time. Reading it, listening to it and hearing the inflection of the actors' voices to capture the emotion was really helpful.

Not only the inflection, but the rhythm - especially for the plays that are written in verse.

Interesting note about that: Did you know that, in the Scottish play (don't want to invoke the curse by uttering the actual name), the witches speak in two different rhythms? When they're among themselves, they speak in trochaic quadrameter. But when they interact with mortals, they speak in iambic pentameter. This is a vocal cue that the witches are shape-shifters - they are one thing among themselves, and then assume human form when they meet mortal beings.

Pretty cool, huh?

Genesia said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

(Sorry, not reading the entire thread at this point so this may have been mentioned previously)

When I was reading Shakespeare in college, it was recommended that while reading, have an audio version of the work playing at the same time. Reading it, listening to it and hearing the inflection of the actors' voices to capture the emotion was really helpful.

Not only the inflection, but the rhythm - especially for the plays that are written in verse.

Interesting note about that: Did you know that, in the Scottish play (don't want to invoke the curse by uttering the actual name), the witches speak in two different rhythms? When they're among themselves, they speak in trochaic quadrameter. But when they interact with mortals, they speak in iambic pentameter. This is a vocal cue that the witches are shape-shifters - they are one thing among themselves, and then assume human form when they meet mortal beings.

Pretty cool, huh?

Very cool That's why his work is still studied/performed centuries later!

Which Shakespeare character implores, "Unsex me here," and what is meant by these provocative words?

answer below:

Did you make a guess?

Lady Macbeth. By "unsex" WS means to take away her natural feminine compassion-in order for Lady Macbeth to resolve to kill the King Duncan.

kewlschool said:

Which Shakespeare character implores, "Unsex me here," and what is meant by these provocative words?

answer below:

Did you make a guess?

Lady Macbeth. By "unsex" WS means to take away her natural feminine compassion-in order for Lady Macbeth to resolve to kill the King Duncan.

Fantastic expression.

MacBeth and Taming Of The Shrew are my favs.

Do you know his work? Yes, I read several plays in high school and took a class on Shakespeare in undergrad. I took it as an elective, but it fulfilled some requirement for Theater majors so there were a ton of very dramatic theater majors in my class. For our final project we had to choose something we were interested in and relate it to Shakespeare. Being an art history major, I researched visual representations of scenes from Shakespeare's works. The pre-Raphaelites love them some WS. Several years later, at a bookstore, I saw a book that was all about "paintings of Shakepeare scenes". I should have published that shit first! One guy in the class did references to Shakepeare in Star Trek.

Do you like it? Yes.

What's your favourite work of his? I own about 8-10 plays and the sonnets, but it's been a while since I've had time to read them. I remember liking The Tempest and Othello.

Do you think (young) people should read Shakespeare? Yes.

Do you think it is valuable to (English) culture? Yes, the ideas/situations are timeless and can still resonate today.

Yes. Love. Have a couple of complete works versions (one from the late 1800s in multiple volumes, one about twenty years old as one big book) and about 3/4 of them as seperate volumes (you can pick them up ridiculously cheap at used book/thrift stores because so many people buy them for school and then get rid of them).

Favorites:

A Midsummer Nights Dream

Taming Of The Shrew

Romeo & Juliet

The Sonnets - Which I agree are a lot of fun to read. Truly amazing how the same themes are woven throughout, approached and attacked from different angles, new outcomes reached again and again.

Yeah, I'm really a closet romantic. So sue me.

Favorite Sonnets

16 moves me in a way I can't really explain. Hits me hard every time I read it.

But wherefore do not you a mightier way
Make war upon this bloody tyrant, Time?
And fortify your self in your decay
With means more blessed than my barren rhyme?
Now stand you on the top of happy hours,
And many maiden gardens, yet unset,
With virtuous wish would bear you living flowers,
Much liker than your painted counterfeit:
So should the lines of life that life repair,
Which this, Time's pencil, or my pupil pen,
Neither in inward worth nor outward fair,
Can make you live your self in eyes of men.
To give away yourself, keeps yourself still,
And you must live, drawn by your own sweet skill.

50

How heavy do I journey on the way,
When what I seek, my weary travel's end,
Doth teach that ease and that repose to say,
'Thus far the miles are measured from thy friend!'
The beast that bears me, tired with my woe,
Plods dully on, to bear that weight in me,
As if by some instinct the wretch did know
His rider lov'd not speed being made from thee.
The bloody spur cannot provoke him on,
That sometimes anger thrusts into his hide,
Which heavily he answers with a groan,
More sharp to me than spurring to his side;
For that same groan doth put this in my mind,
My grief lies onward, and my joy behind.

82

I grant thou wert not married to my Muse,
And therefore mayst without attaint o'erlook
The dedicated words which writers use
Of their fair subject, blessing every book.
Thou art as fair in knowledge as in hue,
Finding thy worth a limit past my praise;
And therefore art enforced to seek anew
Some fresher stamp of the time-bettering days.
And do so, love; yet when they have devised,
What strained touches rhetoric can lend,
Thou truly fair, wert truly sympathized
In true plain words, by thy true-telling friend;
And their gross painting might be better used
Where cheeks need blood; in thee it is abused.

129

The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action: and till action, lust
Is perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Enjoyed no sooner but despised straight;
Past reason hunted; and no sooner had,
Past reason hated, as a swallowed bait,
On purpose laid to make the taker mad.
Mad in pursuit and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind a dream.
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

Yeah. Those kinda fit me, actually.

Ah crap. I love The Tempest, too.

Double ah crap. Yeah, I do think Shakespeare should still be part of high school and college curriculums. Reading Shakespeare will always be torture for some people, for others it will always open doors. His works haven't stayed around - popular and discussed - this long by accident.

Also, its amazing how often his writing, in whole or in part, have been worked into pop culture again and again over the last hundred years alone. Songs, movies, plays, books, art, etc. that often have very little to do with him on the surface were in fact partly or wholly inspired by his writing.