Dave1992 said:

From all the Canadians and Americans I met, the Canadians were by far more "European" and approving of the European lifestyle than the U.S. citizens. However, my experience cannot confirm any "rule", because it were only a couple of folks, but when I asked the Canadians, they also said that most Canadians feel a closer connection to Europe than to the U.S.

What are some examples of the "European lifestyle"?

Dave1992 said:

From all the Canadians and Americans I met, the Canadians were by far more "European" and approving of the European lifestyle than the U.S. citizens. However, my experience cannot confirm any "rule", because it were only a couple of folks, but when I asked the Canadians, they also said that most Canadians feel a closer connection to Europe than to the U.S.

What does that mean?

sextonseven said:

Dave1992 said:

From all the Canadians and Americans I met, the Canadians were by far more "European" and approving of the European lifestyle than the U.S. citizens. However, my experience cannot confirm any "rule", because it were only a couple of folks, but when I asked the Canadians, they also said that most Canadians feel a closer connection to Europe than to the U.S.

What are some examples of the "European lifestyle"?

JustErin said:

sextonseven said:

What are some examples of the "European lifestyle"?

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

Thank you. Of course every American orger will now post and say they are different from that stereotype.

JustErin said:

sextonseven said:

What are some examples of the "European lifestyle"?

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

Thanks.

JustErin said:

sextonseven said:

What are some examples of the "European lifestyle"?

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

Basically, yep.

JustErin said:

sextonseven said:

What are some examples of the "European lifestyle"?

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

I think you describe America well. My only critique is that European/Canada like Americans believe in their cultural superiority.

kewlschool said:

JustErin said:

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

I think you describe America well. My only critique is that European/Canada like Americans believe in their cultural superiority.

I do feel as if most of the points mentioned above are "superior" (which is highly subjective, needless to say). Europe is "superior" because almost all people living here have work, a house, health care, a rather good school system (in most countries) and still manage (in most cases) to take care of many immigrants who want to have a better life.

Still, most of the people I know are the first to criticise our Austrian/European ways when something doesn't go well and are the first to call for change, so we do not believe in any "God-given" kind of superiority. I'm just really glad and thankful I can live here.

Dave1992 said:

kewlschool said:

I think you describe America well. My only critique is that European/Canada like Americans believe in their cultural superiority.

I do feel as if most of the points mentioned above are "superior" (which is highly subjective, needless to say). Europe is "superior" because almost all people living here have work, a house, health care, a rather good school system (in most countries) and still manage (in most cases) to take care of many immigrants who want to have a better life.

Still, most of the people I know are the first to criticise our Austrian/European ways when something doesn't go well and are the first to call for change, so we do not believe in any "God-given" kind of superiority. I'm just really glad and thankful I can live here.

It is extremly hard for anybody to move to a European country these days. Even if I'd marry my boyfriend from a non European country he would not even be allowed to visit me here, it's just ridiculous. And if we'd want to live here together that is only possible if you have a certain income and German knowledge on a pretty high level before you even move here.

kewlschool said:

JustErin said:

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

I think you describe America well. My only critique is that European/Canada like Americans believe in their cultural superiority.

I totally disagree.

JustErin said:

kewlschool said:

I think you describe America well. My only critique is that European/Canada like Americans believe in their cultural superiority.

I totally disagree.

Me too. Going on averages of people I know or have worked / lived / associated with it is a European tendency to have a far more realistic view of inferiority and superiority etc

Of course it's a generalisation as these things always are but I find far more humility in Europe than the U.S.

JustErin said:

Ace said:

Never been. But a friend of mine went out there for school. Hated it. From what I've been told, too many hippies and junkie vagrants, for my liking. YMMV.

Haha...people from Toronto always say this.

As with NYC/L.A., I guess a lot of it's about the differences between East and West sensibilities.

...Well, that and the fact that Toronto is inherently superior to the rest of Canada and all of the United States (with the possible exception of New York).

JustErin said:

sextonseven said:

What are some examples of the "European lifestyle"?

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

Very astute, Erin!

One thing I would take issue with: It's been my experience that Canada is less liberal on alcohol (a good thing, in my books).

Serious said:

Dave1992 said:

I do feel as if most of the points mentioned above are "superior" (which is highly subjective, needless to say). Europe is "superior" because almost all people living here have work, a house, health care, a rather good school system (in most countries) and still manage (in most cases) to take care of many immigrants who want to have a better life.

Still, most of the people I know are the first to criticise our Austrian/European ways when something doesn't go well and are the first to call for change, so we do not believe in any "God-given" kind of superiority. I'm just really glad and thankful I can live here.

It is extremly hard for anybody to move to a European country these days. Even if I'd marry my boyfriend from a non European country he would not even be allowed to visit me here, it's just ridiculous. And if we'd want to live here together that is only possible if you have a certain income and German knowledge on a pretty high level before you even move here.

I don't want to discuss politics here, but I think this is logical and understandable to a certain extent...

Ace said:

JustErin said:

Some exmaples of the differences:

Americans are more pro-religion and anti-homosexuality

Americans are more likely to believe in their cultural superiority

Americans place more value on individual freedom and personal responsibility

Americans are not as liberal on drugs, prostitution, alcohol, abortion

Major gun control differences

Canadian and European governments are more similar

Americans put much more emphasis on patriotism than Canadians and Europeans

Of course, these differences don't apply to every American, Canadian or European and Canadians are somewhat in between the two, but many of us lean more towards European sensibilities.

Very astute, Erin!

One thing I would take issue with: It's been my experience that Canada is less liberal on alcohol (a good thing, in my books).

Yeah, so are many European countries (Sweden, for example).

Dave1992 said:

Serious said:

It is extremly hard for anybody to move to a European country these days. Even if I'd marry my boyfriend from a non European country he would not even be allowed to visit me here, it's just ridiculous. And if we'd want to live here together that is only possible if you have a certain income and German knowledge on a pretty high level before you even move here.

I don't want to discuss politics here, but I think this is logical and understandable to a certain extent...

It was not like that 5 years ago and it isn't like that in most countries in the world. Why is it neceassary that somebody who wants to move to Austria needs to speak German on a level of finishing highschool before he even can go here the first time ever? When there might not even be any opportunities in his country to take any German courses overthere? They just ask for that becasue they know quite well that many people will not be able to do that and they don't care how many lives of people they destroy with that xenophobic shit. It should be a human rigth that you can live in the same country as the person you are married to. Do you have any idea how many Austrian children miss their dads every day because they are not allowed to stay with them because of laws like that?

BTW me and my man would not need any financial support from the government, but they'd still would not allow me to live in my country with my husband and that is not understandable at all. And they would not even allow him to visit me a couple of weeks a year if I'd move to his country. How insane is that?

But yeah let's stop here, otherwise I will just start crying or wish to kill myself because it is laws like these that make my life not worth living anymore and make me ashamed to be Austrian .

Sorry for the threadjacking Erin, I will just stay out of here now.

Serious said:

Dave1992 said:

I don't want to discuss politics here, but I think this is logical and understandable to a certain extent...

It was not like that 5 years ago and it isn't like that in most countries in the world. Why is it neceassary that somebody who wants to move to Austria needs to speak German on a level of finishing highschool before he even can go here the first time ever? When there might not even be any opportunities in his country to take any German courses overthere? They just ask for that becasue they know quite well that many people will not be able to do that and they don't care how many lives of people they destroy with that xenophobic shit. It should be a human rigth that you can live in the same country as the person you are married to. Do you have any idea how many Austrian children miss their dads every day because they are not allowed to stay with them because of laws like that?

BTW me and my man would not need any financial support from the government, but they'd still would not allow me to live in my country with my husband and that is not understandable at all. And they would not even allow him to visit me a couple of weeks a year if I'd move to his country. How insane is that?

But yeah let's stop here, otherwise I will just start crying or wish to kill myself because it is laws like these that make my life not worth living anymore and make me ashamed to be Austrian .

Sorry for the threadjacking Erin, I will just stay out of here now.

I am not familiar enough with those exact laws (and don't have enough time now to look them up), so I can't continue this discussion, but I'm sure there are reasons for those laws other than sheer xenophobia. You know, xenophobia is quite a hefty word/thing and, even though I feel for you and agree that you, of course, should be able to see your man, I still think it is way too harsh a thing to say about our law system/people, trying to look at it from a neutral point of view...

Dave1992 said:

Serious said:

It was not like that 5 years ago and it isn't like that in most countries in the world. Why is it neceassary that somebody who wants to move to Austria needs to speak German on a level of finishing highschool before he even can go here the first time ever? When there might not even be any opportunities in his country to take any German courses overthere? They just ask for that becasue they know quite well that many people will not be able to do that and they don't care how many lives of people they destroy with that xenophobic shit. It should be a human rigth that you can live in the same country as the person you are married to. Do you have any idea how many Austrian children miss their dads every day because they are not allowed to stay with them because of laws like that?

BTW me and my man would not need any financial support from the government, but they'd still would not allow me to live in my country with my husband and that is not understandable at all. And they would not even allow him to visit me a couple of weeks a year if I'd move to his country. How insane is that?

But yeah let's stop here, otherwise I will just start crying or wish to kill myself because it is laws like these that make my life not worth living anymore and make me ashamed to be Austrian .

Sorry for the threadjacking Erin, I will just stay out of here now.

I am not familiar enough with those exact laws (and don't have enough time now to look them up), so I can't continue this discussion, but I'm sure there are reasons for those laws other than sheer xenophobia. You know, xenophobia is quite a hefty word/thing and, even though I feel for you and agree that you, of course, should be able to see your man, I still think it is way too harsh a thing to say about our law system/people, trying to look at it from a neutral point of view...

I felt the same about these laws before I even met my man. And these laws make it impossible to see my man and they also make it impossible for my man to see his 2 small children from a previous relationship too BTW.

And no I cannot see any other reason for those laws than greed and xenophobia.

No worries Serious, jack the thread all you want. I don't care about stuff like that.

Serious said:

Dave1992 said:

I am not familiar enough with those exact laws (and don't have enough time now to look them up), so I can't continue this discussion, but I'm sure there are reasons for those laws other than sheer xenophobia. You know, xenophobia is quite a hefty word/thing and, even though I feel for you and agree that you, of course, should be able to see your man, I still think it is way too harsh a thing to say about our law system/people, trying to look at it from a neutral point of view...

I felt the same about these laws before I even met my man. And these laws make it impossible to see my man and they also make it impossible for my man to see his 2 small children from a previous relationship too BTW.

And no I cannot see any other reason for those laws than greed and xenophobia.

I'll look into those laws and build an opinion; I'm interested in it.

Again, "greed" sounds horrible and wrong, but look at it from the other point of view - they would call it "economical security; spend money on local people/problems first (as every country does, actually)". I'm not sharing my opinion here, just playing devil's advocate.

I'm not speaking because of pride or patriotism (I don't have either, they are both meaningless), but rather because my conscience tells me do to so: Both of us should be extremely happy and thankful to be able to live here. In so many other countries you wouldn't even have the right to share your opinion and openly disagree with the law... Austria turned out to be a pretty nice place for so many different people from many different nations. Voicing our opinions and striving for things to get better is necessary, but we should not damn our whole country and the people that live there because not everything works the way every individual would want them to...

This is a very interesting (and difficult) topic, but I'd like to take this opportunity and initiate a change of the central theme in this thread. Let's turn this into a titty thread. JustErin, feel free to post the first pic of your boobs!

Dave1992 said:

This is a very interesting (and difficult) topic, but I'd like to take this opportunity and initiate a change of the central theme in this thread. Let's turn this into a titty thread. JustErin, feel free to post the first pic of your boobs!

I was going to post a picture of the real boob in my life - the dude I am seeing...but what the hell, here is a boob shot.

Dave1992 said:

Serious said:

I felt the same about these laws before I even met my man. And these laws make it impossible to see my man and they also make it impossible for my man to see his 2 small children from a previous relationship too BTW.

And no I cannot see any other reason for those laws than greed and xenophobia.

I'll look into those laws and build an opinion; I'm interested in it.

Again, "greed" sounds horrible and wrong, but look at it from the other point of view - they would call it "economical security; spend money on local people/problems first (as every country does, actually)". I'm not sharing my opinion here, just playing devil's advocate.

I'm not speaking because of pride or patriotism (I don't have either, they are both meaningless), but rather because my conscience tells me do to so: Both of us should be extremely happy and thankful to be able to live here. In so many other countries you wouldn't even have the right to share your opinion and openly disagree with the law... Austria turned out to be a pretty nice place for so many different people from many different nations. Voicing our opinions and striving for things to get better is necessary, but we should not damn our whole country and the people that live there because not everything works the way every individual would want them to...

I am a local person myself and apparently my situation doesn't count at all. I as a local person would be denied the right to have my husband visit me in my country or stay with me. My mother will be 81 soon, if she'd die my boyfriend couldn't even go with me to her funeral .

And for your information: my boyfriend doesn't even want to move here, he'd just love to visit me and his children here in Europe that's all. Many couples marry after knowing each other just for weeks because that's the only way that they can see each other. It's insane.

And we don't have people from so many different nations here compared to other countries and right now we are doing our best to stop anybody from anywhere else to come over here. The only exceptions are Russian opera singers who of course need not speak any German, football players or russain billionaires who pay right wing parties big money to be allowed to stay here .

And if the right wing parties will win more votes in the future we won't be allowed to speak our minds anymore in the future!

And as I support the change of topic as it is way too painful for me to discuss it anyway right now I will post that older photo again:

[Edited 11/30/11 11:02am]

Serious said:

And as I support the change of topic as it is way too painful for me to discuss it anyway right now I will post that older photo again:

JustErin said:

Dave1992 said:

This is a very interesting (and difficult) topic, but I'd like to take this opportunity and initiate a change of the central theme in this thread. Let's turn this into a titty thread. JustErin, feel free to post the first pic of your boobs!

I was going to post a picture of the real boob in my life - the dude I am seeing...but what the hell, here is a boob shot.

First I want to lick your nipples and then I want to squeeze your boobs. Okay?

Serious said:

And as I support the change of topic as it is way too painful for me to discuss it anyway right now I will post that older photo again:

Austria allows boobs like yours - this simply has to be a brilliant country!

Dave1992 said:

JustErin said:

I was going to post a picture of the real boob in my life - the dude I am seeing...but what the hell, here is a boob shot.

First I want to lick your nipples and then I want to squeeze your boobs. Okay?

Yup. Sounds good.

JustErin said:

Dave1992 said:

First I want to lick your nipples and then I want to squeeze your boobs. Okay?

Yup. Sounds good.