I've wondered about this for a while. All the news of young gay teens killing themselves because of constant bullying but I don't know if it's just something for the media to notice and ignore teens of all orientations who have been bullied so badly that they can't take living anymore and then you have people who have been bullied but somehow manage to survive it. I don't know, but I wonder from you guys' perspectives how you take bullying and what you think about how the media reports and should, if there is bullying that is happening to everyone, should all orientations, races, etc. be treated fairly when it comes to these bullying prevention programs? I just wanted to know what you guys think.

[Edited 11/23/11 5:11am]

We've had some very good "bullying" threads on the Org lately. Especially since it's become a "hot topic" for the media.

IMO, bullying has been around since Cain beat up his little brother.

School bullying and hazing as well. In fact (I mentioned this elsewhere) on a schooltrip with my son we were shown a colonial era schoolhouse, and they said that back then most schoolteachers were big, tough guys because they had to be able to defend THEMSELVES from the teens!

What's happening today is a twofold scenario;

1) as a society, we are more sensitive to the emotional needs of a person and therefore find something like bullying to be more of a cause for concern (as opposed to just 'shit that happens').

2) people are losing their ability to cope and defend themselves. Kids are coddled almost to a fault and when something like bullying happens to them, they don't know how to deal.

I'll share this with you;

My mom just spent a month in Honduras. She commented to me the remarkeable difference between kids THERE and kids HERE. My own children, for example, still play with toys and have a child-like 'innocence' at ages 9, 11 and 13. Meanwhile, she was around kids ages 10 and 11 whose general demeanor was so mature and un-childlike (is that a word?) that she was taken aback. Some 13 year olds are already working and smoking and screwing while my son is still playing with Legos! When it comes to dealing with shit that life throws at you - such as bullying - who is going to be more prepared and able to brush it off? Hell, I know High School GRADUATES who can't cope with "life" b/c mommy & daddy no longer want to coddle them and want them to go out and get a job (the HORROR!!!).

That's my 2-cents anyway.

Food for thought.

Not that one is worse than the other but remember, people that are bullied for being fat,nerdy or a different race, usually have someone they can come home to and get support. Gay kids may be bullied and may not be able to go home and get comforted and supported.

The IT GETS BETTER PROJECT concentrates on gay kids but their campaign has presented all types of bullying.

[Edited 11/23/11 11:10am]

PurpleJedi said:

We've had some very good "bullying" threads on the Org lately. Especially since it's become a "hot topic" for the media.

IMO, bullying has been around since Cain beat up his little brother.

School bullying and hazing as well. In fact (I mentioned this elsewhere) on a schooltrip with my son we were shown a colonial era schoolhouse, and they said that back then most schoolteachers were big, tough guys because they had to be able to defend THEMSELVES from the teens!

What's happening today is a twofold scenario;

1) as a society, we are more sensitive to the emotional needs of a person and therefore find something like bullying to be more of a cause for concern (as opposed to just 'shit that happens').

2) people are losing their ability to cope and defend themselves. Kids are coddled almost to a fault and when something like bullying happens to them, they don't know how to deal.

I'll share this with you;

My mom just spent a month in Honduras. She commented to me the remarkeable difference between kids THERE and kids HERE. My own children, for example, still play with toys and have a child-like 'innocence' at ages 9, 11 and 13. Meanwhile, she was around kids ages 10 and 11 whose general demeanor was so mature and un-childlike (is that a word?) that she was taken aback. Some 13 year olds are already working and smoking and screwing while my son is still playing with Legos! When it comes to dealing with shit that life throws at you - such as bullying - who is going to be more prepared and able to brush it off? Hell, I know High School GRADUATES who can't cope with "life" b/c mommy & daddy no longer want to coddle them and want them to go out and get a job (the HORROR!!!).

That's my 2-cents anyway.

That's a crazy comparison.

Timmy84 said:

PurpleJedi said:

We've had some very good "bullying" threads on the Org lately. Especially since it's become a "hot topic" for the media.

IMO, bullying has been around since Cain beat up his little brother.

School bullying and hazing as well. In fact (I mentioned this elsewhere) on a schooltrip with my son we were shown a colonial era schoolhouse, and they said that back then most schoolteachers were big, tough guys because they had to be able to defend THEMSELVES from the teens!

What's happening today is a twofold scenario;

1) as a society, we are more sensitive to the emotional needs of a person and therefore find something like bullying to be more of a cause for concern (as opposed to just 'shit that happens').

2) people are losing their ability to cope and defend themselves. Kids are coddled almost to a fault and when something like bullying happens to them, they don't know how to deal.

I'll share this with you;

My mom just spent a month in Honduras. She commented to me the remarkeable difference between kids THERE and kids HERE. My own children, for example, still play with toys and have a child-like 'innocence' at ages 9, 11 and 13. Meanwhile, she was around kids ages 10 and 11 whose general demeanor was so mature and un-childlike (is that a word?) that she was taken aback. Some 13 year olds are already working and smoking and screwing while my son is still playing with Legos! When it comes to dealing with shit that life throws at you - such as bullying - who is going to be more prepared and able to brush it off? Hell, I know High School GRADUATES who can't cope with "life" b/c mommy & daddy no longer want to coddle them and want them to go out and get a job (the HORROR!!!).

That's my 2-cents anyway.

That's a crazy comparison.

For the record, I am perfectly happy that my 13 year old son still holds on to his childhood innocence. But I worry about his ability to deal with stuff. I was just like him, and I remember what I went through...and still do to a certain extent...but all I can do is give him advice and hope that he muddles through the complications of adolecensce relatively unscathed.

My younger two are more savvy and "life smart" so I worry less about them. My little one is actually a bully to the oldest.

PurpleJedi said:

Timmy84 said:

That's a crazy comparison.

For the record, I am perfectly happy that my 13 year old son still holds on to his childhood innocence. But I worry about his ability to deal with stuff. I was just like him, and I remember what I went through...and still do to a certain extent...but all I can do is give him advice and hope that he muddles through the complications of adolecensce relatively unscathed.

My younger two are more savvy and "life smart" so I worry less about them. My little one is actually a bully to the oldest.

lol that's always the worst when the youngest bully the oldest but it's just as bad as the oldest bullying the youngest lol sibling bullies seem to be a tradition too.

Timmy84 said:

I've wondered about this for a while. All the news of young gay teens killing themselves because of constant bullying but I don't know if it's just something for the media to notice and ignore teens of all orientations who have been bullied so badly that they can't take living anymore and then you have people who have been bullied but somehow manage to survive it. I don't know, but I wonder from you guys' perspectives how you take bullying and what you think about how the media reports and should, if there is bullying that is happening to everyone, should all orientations, races, etc. be treated fairly when it comes to these bullying prevention programs? I just wanted to know what you guys think.

I think some people need to be home schooled. There has to be a way for that to be an option even if the parents work. You aren't learning a damn thing in a school building if all you are thinking about is what will happen when class ends and you once again are in the halls.

Someone should do a study on the suicide rate, pregnancy rate, drug addiction, crime rate, etc on home schooled teens.

Few brilliant or gifted people fit in well in high school. For them it is just 4 years of gathering scar tissue.

Deadflow3r said:

Timmy84 said:

I've wondered about this for a while. All the news of young gay teens killing themselves because of constant bullying but I don't know if it's just something for the media to notice and ignore teens of all orientations who have been bullied so badly that they can't take living anymore and then you have people who have been bullied but somehow manage to survive it. I don't know, but I wonder from you guys' perspectives how you take bullying and what you think about how the media reports and should, if there is bullying that is happening to everyone, should all orientations, races, etc. be treated fairly when it comes to these bullying prevention programs? I just wanted to know what you guys think.

I think some people need to be home schooled. There has to be a way for that to be an option even if the parents work. You aren't learning a damn thing in a school building if all you are thinking about is what will happen when class ends and you once again are in the halls.

Someone should do a study on the suicide rate, pregnancy rate, drug addiction, crime rate, etc on home schooled teens.

Few brilliant or gifted people fit in well in high school. For them it is just 4 years of gathering scar tissue.

Yeah something about public school seems to rub MANY the wrong way.

Timmy84 said:

Deadflow3r said:

I think some people need to be home schooled. There has to be a way for that to be an option even if the parents work. You aren't learning a damn thing in a school building if all you are thinking about is what will happen when class ends and you once again are in the halls.

Someone should do a study on the suicide rate, pregnancy rate, drug addiction, crime rate, etc on home schooled teens.

Few brilliant or gifted people fit in well in high school. For them it is just 4 years of gathering scar tissue.

Yeah something about public school seems to rub MANY the wrong way.

I think there needs to be more options out there. I have relatives that homeschooled their kids and everyone thought that that was weird but kids that are homeschooled can learn social skills doing what is considered "after school activities" with kids who have simular interests.

I keep thinking of that pretty Irish girl whose family moved to Massachusetts and the teen got bullied to the point that she killed herself.

Obviously. looking back, the parents would rather have had her quit school or be homeschooled, anything besides suicide.

Bullies are great at being devious about what they are doing. It is not always obvious to adults that the teens are preying upon the new girl, for instance.

Deadflow3r said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah something about public school seems to rub MANY the wrong way.

I think there needs to be more options out there. I have relatives that homeschooled their kids and everyone thought that that was weird but kids that are homeschooled can learn social skills doing what is considered "after school activities" with kids who have simular interests.

I keep thinking of that pretty Irish girl whose family moved to Massachusetts and the teen got bullied to the point that she killed herself.

Obviously. looking back, the parents would rather have had her quit school or be homeschooled, anything besides suicide.

Bullies are great at being devious about what they are doing. It is not always obvious to adults that the teens are preying upon the new girl, for instance.

Yeah people need to quit acting like being homeschooled means you're anti social because there's a good number of folks who go to public school who are anti social... I hate when people make that assumption. And you're right about how bullies act.

Timmy84 said:

Deadflow3r said:

I think there needs to be more options out there. I have relatives that homeschooled their kids and everyone thought that that was weird but kids that are homeschooled can learn social skills doing what is considered "after school activities" with kids who have simular interests.

I keep thinking of that pretty Irish girl whose family moved to Massachusetts and the teen got bullied to the point that she killed herself.

Obviously. looking back, the parents would rather have had her quit school or be homeschooled, anything besides suicide.

Bullies are great at being devious about what they are doing. It is not always obvious to adults that the teens are preying upon the new girl, for instance.

Yeah people need to quit acting like being homeschooled means you're anti social because there's a good number of folks who go to public school who are anti social... I hate when people make that assumption. And you're right about how bullies act.

They do the same things that they did when I was young some 35 years ago. Basically they follow you in a way that makes it seem like they are walking with you and talking with you. I took my daughter out of a school for multiple reasons. One of them was that she made friends other places but not so much at that school. There were 2 girls, both had the same first name, that she would get in trouble with. Come to find out she could not walk away from them like I told her to because they followed her. I got right on the phone about that.

Deadflow3r said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah people need to quit acting like being homeschooled means you're anti social because there's a good number of folks who go to public school who are anti social... I hate when people make that assumption. And you're right about how bullies act.

They do the same things that they did when I was young some 35 years ago. Basically they follow you in a way that makes it seem like they are walking with you and talking with you. I took my daughter out of a school for multiple reasons. One of them was that she made friends other places but not so much at that school. There were 2 girls, both had the same first name, that she would get in trouble with. Come to find out she could not walk away from them like I told her to because they followed her. I got right on the phone about that.

Yeah when people do that, that's just scary shit. Glad you called about that.

People emphasize on the sensationalism more when an oppressed group is in the equation somehow when it should be talked about anyways regardless of who deals with it. About gay bullying, it's not just the bullying, it's how 'gay' is a substitute word for stupid or dumb or whatever these days in elementary and high school, a buildup of that must deal to these suicides happening at an early age and bullying from other students. And even urban cities that are considered a good example for the gay community sadly has kids in school who still act like that today.

I wish a motherfucker would.

ScarletScandal said:

I wish a motherfucker would.

You be damned if someone tried to bully you, huh? I feel ya. Fuck the dumb shit.

Timmy84 said:

ScarletScandal said:

I wish a motherfucker would.

You be damned if someone tried to bully you, huh? I feel ya. Fuck the dumb shit.

Uh huh! I am 28 years old. Fuck that shit.

ScarletScandal said:

Timmy84 said:

You be damned if someone tried to bully you, huh? I feel ya. Fuck the dumb shit.

Uh huh! I am 28 years old. Fuck that shit.

Yeah people think "bullying" only lasts through high school. Nah foolish fuckers try to do that when you're an adult. People be tripping thinking they can control you.

Timmy84 said:

ScarletScandal said:

Uh huh! I am 28 years old. Fuck that shit.

Yeah people think "bullying" only lasts through high school. Nah foolish fuckers try to do that when you're an adult. People be tripping thinking they can control you.

And they can!

IF YOU LET THEM

Some adults care more about what others think of them then they care about what they think of themselves. If you are not your own best friend, no other friendship matters. I learned this the hard way.

Even the love of your child doesn't matter if you got that love by pretending to be someone your not to appease your family etc. The reason is because when you look in the mirror you realize it is not you that people love but this phony, compromised individual you have become and you grow hateful. Hateful of yourself and all the ones that love the phony you and encourage you to live with your true self hidden.

What is that saying "One day lived as a lion is worth a thousand lived as a lamb"? Cowering costs your soul and take it from me, it is expensive to buy it back!

Deadflow3r said:

Timmy84 said:

Yeah people think "bullying" only lasts through high school. Nah foolish fuckers try to do that when you're an adult. People be tripping thinking they can control you.

And they can!

IF YOU LET THEM

Some adults care more about what others think of them then they care about what they think of themselves. If you are not your own best friend, no other friendship matters. I learned this the hard way.

Even the love of your child doesn't matter if you got that love by pretending to be someone your not to appease your family etc. The reason is because when you look in the mirror you realize it is not you that people love but this phony, compromised individual you have become and you grow hateful. Hateful of yourself and all the ones that love the phony you and encourage you to live with your true self hidden.

What is that saying "One day lived as a lion is worth a thousand lived as a lamb"? Cowering costs your soul and take it from me, it is expensive to buy it back!

True. That's why when I was little I had to learn how to protect myself. After ninth grade it was easier to deal with the bullshitters.

My theory is that part of it may be the values of the family you come from. If you come from a family who places a high degree of importance on "what will the neighbors, cousins, co-workers, etc think" you can easily be bullied because you have a certain amount of shame, guilt and self rejection working inside you already.

I don't know about that pretty Irish Girl. The only thing she did was come here from Ireland in her late teens and have the nerve to attend public school. There were not a whole lot of Irish immigrants like there were a hundred years ago so she couldn't band together with the Irish kids at the school cafeteria. I have a feeling that boys checked her out and the girls were hating that.

But I wonder if her parents placed a high weight on assimulating into the surrounding American community. If somehow she got the impression that she was letting her parents down; bringing shame upon the family.

Kids that come from a very religious home don't do well with being gay. They already feel bad and certainly don't feel that their parents are behind them. I came from a very religious home and it truly fucked with my head.

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Food for thought.

Not that one is worse than the other but remember, people that are bullied for being fat,nerdy or a different race, usually have someone they can come home to and get support. Gay kids may be bullied and may not be able to go home and get comforted and supported.

The IT GETS BETTER PROJECT concentrates on gay kids but their campaign has presented all types of bullying.

[Edited 11/23/11 11:10am]

I like this . All kids need to know the meaning of the phrase "This too shall pass".

Deadflow3r said:

MIGUELGOMEZ said:

Food for thought.

Not that one is worse than the other but remember, people that are bullied for being fat,nerdy or a different race, usually have someone they can come home to and get support. Gay kids may be bullied and may not be able to go home and get comforted and supported.

The IT GETS BETTER PROJECT concentrates on gay kids but their campaign has presented all types of bullying.

[Edited 11/23/11 11:10am]

I like this . All kids need to know the meaning of the phrase "This too shall pass".

Well I learned the hard way that bullying and emotional distress does not end with high school at all and people don't outgrow it. But have also realized that I must have thought I was so grown but still have ways to go and that's okay, but may have come off as arrogant, though I do think I'm more mature than some of them in that respect.

I believe adults must have done that with me too and though I like a lot of things about myself, I have a lot of self loathing issues that I didn't realize till recently have affected me

One would think that as people mature and progress through life, that they would stop behaviors of their youth. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. Sadly, adults can be bullies, just as children and teenagers can be bullies. While adults are more likely to use verbal bullying as opposed to physical bullying, the fact of the matter is that adult bullying exists. The goal of an adult bully is to gain power over another person, and make himself or herself the dominant adult. They try to humiliate victims, and “show them who is boss.”

Workplace bullying can make life quite miserable and difficult. Supervisors should be made aware of adult bullies, since they can disrupt productivity, create a hostile work environment (opening the company to the risk of a law suit) and reduce morale.

It is important to note, though, that there is little you can do about an adult bully, other than ignore and try to avoid, after reporting the abuse to a supervisor. This is because adult bullies are often in a set pattern. They are not interested in working things out and they are not interested in compromise. Rather, adult bullies are more interested in power and domination. They want to feel as though they are important and preferred, and they accomplish this by bringing others down. There is very little you can do to change an adult bully, beyond working within the confines of laws and company regulations that are set up. The good news is that, if you can document the bullying, there are legal and civil remedies for harassment, abuse and other forms of bullying. But you have to be able to document the case.

Adult bullies were often either bullies as children, or bullied as children. Understanding this about them may be able to help you cope with the behavior. But there is little you can do about it beyond doing your best to ignore the bully, report his or her behavior to the proper authorities, and document the instances of bullying so that you can take legal action down the road if necessary

Yeah I faced it in the workplace and it actually took me almost 2 years to recover, and I'm still affected by it. I had an issue going on anyways with myself to begin with and she was adding onto the stress though I think she could also see I was struggling at the job. I ended up quitting full time and took on casual hours as a result, but if I tried complaining they said they can't do anything unless I address her first and I used to be so terrified of her to even consider that.

free2bfreeda said:

One would think that as people mature and progress through life, that they would stop behaviors of their youth. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. Sadly, adults can be bullies, just as children and teenagers can be bullies. While adults are more likely to use verbal bullying as opposed to physical bullying, the fact of the matter is that adult bullying exists. The goal of an adult bully is to gain power over another person, and make himself or herself the dominant adult. They try to humiliate victims, and “show them who is boss.”

Workplace bullying can make life quite miserable and difficult. Supervisors should be made aware of adult bullies, since they can disrupt productivity, create a hostile work environment (opening the company to the risk of a law suit) and reduce morale.

It is important to note, though, that there is little you can do about an adult bully, other than ignore and try to avoid, after reporting the abuse to a supervisor. This is because adult bullies are often in a set pattern. They are not interested in working things out and they are not interested in compromise. Rather, adult bullies are more interested in power and domination. They want to feel as though they are important and preferred, and they accomplish this by bringing others down. There is very little you can do to change an adult bully, beyond working within the confines of laws and company regulations that are set up. The good news is that, if you can document the bullying, there are legal and civil remedies for harassment, abuse and other forms of bullying. But you have to be able to document the case.

Adult bullies were often either bullies as children, or bullied as children. Understanding this about them may be able to help you cope with the behavior. But there is little you can do about it beyond doing your best to ignore the bully, report his or her behavior to the proper authorities, and document the instances of bullying so that you can take legal action down the road if necessary

Bullying also occurs in college.

My friend and I were having a similar conversation to this topic earlier today. I've concluded (though I've said it before too) that those experiences really impact who we become as adults and how we treat ourselves.

alphastreet said:

Yeah I faced it in the workplace and it actually took me almost 2 years to recover, and I'm still affected by it. I had an issue going on anyways with myself to begin with and she was adding onto the stress though I think she could also see I was struggling at the job. I ended up quitting full time and took on casual hours as a result, but if I tried complaining they said they can't do anything unless I address her first and I used to be so terrified of her to even consider that.

Wow, this sounds just like me in many of my jobs in the past.

I gather from my constant experience as a Welcome Mat, that the universe was trying to tell me something. For some reason I was not willing to be my own best advocate and defender. I guess I saw it as being a whiner, a complainer, one who makes mountains out of mole hills.

The truth is that I get to set my own boundaries and no one else does. If I seem overly touchy or defensive, whatever, at least I am not a Welcome Mat.

Deadflow3r said:

alphastreet said:

Yeah I faced it in the workplace and it actually took me almost 2 years to recover, and I'm still affected by it. I had an issue going on anyways with myself to begin with and she was adding onto the stress though I think she could also see I was struggling at the job. I ended up quitting full time and took on casual hours as a result, but if I tried complaining they said they can't do anything unless I address her first and I used to be so terrified of her to even consider that.

Wow, this sounds just like me in many of my jobs in the past.

I gather from my constant experience as a Welcome Mat, that the universe was trying to tell me something. For some reason I was not willing to be my own best advocate and defender. I guess I saw it as being a whiner, a complainer, one who makes mountains out of mole hills.

The truth is that I get to set my own boundaries and no one else does. If I seem overly touchy or defensive, whatever, at least I am not a Welcome Mat.

That's very true. I'm beginning to see that more too now and though I knew it then, there was too much going on mentally to see the whole picture, and when I quit the job, I ended up going for depression treatment almost everyday too so I did it for myself even though I was on edge dealing with her and the job itself. I was really struggling and sure I would have lost it if I stayed there full time, and I didn't want to lose that particular one that way, no matter how much I whine about it.

[Edited 11/30/11 7:44am]