namepeace said:

Adisa said:

I say it may drop in the spring, when sports fans merely want something to watch on tv. In terms of cultural significance, today's NBA ranks lower than NCAA basketball. Even casual fans buy into the excitement and have office polls via brackets and whatnot. The NBA is really just not that big of a deal anymore.

today's NBA regular season is much more relevant than NCAA's regular season. And that says a lot. you're talking about March Madness, but for the most part, due in large part to the talent exodus to the NBA, college basketball from November to early March is largely irrelevant. there was a time when tomorrow's NBA stars first played on campus. No more.

The NBA's popularity post-MJ has fallen off, but it's coming off of its best season in at least a decade, maybe two. From July 2010 till June 2011, it held the public's attention. ratings from wire to wire were up. It lost that momentum and may not get it back.

What a bunch of dumb-dumbs. I was really looking 4ward 2 this season.

Graycap23 said:

What a bunch of dumb-dumbs. I was really looking 4ward 2 this season.

Well, I wasn't looking forward to my favorite team's season (I think Mike Brown in LA will be underwhelming at best and a disaster at worst), but I was looking forward to 2011-12 being even more competitive than 2010-11. It was setting up that way; the good teams were going to get better and major moves were going to be made.

There is a silver lining to all this. The Knicks won't be able to break my heart like they've done for the past 38 years since their last title.

uPtoWnNY said:

There is a silver lining to all this. The Knicks won't be able to break my heart like they've done for the past 38 years since their last title.

...but they will also go another year without a title.

Graycap23 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

There is a silver lining to all this. The Knicks won't be able to break my heart like they've done for the past 38 years since their last title.

...but they will also go another year without a title.

They ain't winning shit with "No-D" D'Amfoni in charge.

So?

They should've figured something out to prevent this. I can always watch NFL or UFC if I wanted to.

namepeace said:

today's NBA regular season is much more relevant than NCAA's regular season. And that says a lot. you're talking about March Madness, but for the most part, due in large part to the talent exodus to the NBA, college basketball from November to early March is largely irrelevant. there was a time when tomorrow's NBA stars first played on campus. No more.

The NBA's popularity post-MJ has fallen off, but it's coming off of its best season in at least a decade, maybe two. From July 2010 till June 2011, it held the public's attention. ratings from wire to wire were up. It lost that momentum and may not get it back.

Gotta disagree with you there, even with the talent exodus every season it's still way more interesting and relevant even during the regular season then the NBA, which IMO doesn't get interesting until the All-Star break in February.

Abdul said:

namepeace said:

today's NBA regular season is much more relevant than NCAA's regular season. And that says a lot. you're talking about March Madness, but for the most part, due in large part to the talent exodus to the NBA, college basketball from November to early March is largely irrelevant. there was a time when tomorrow's NBA stars first played on campus. No more.

The NBA's popularity post-MJ has fallen off, but it's coming off of its best season in at least a decade, maybe two. From July 2010 till June 2011, it held the public's attention. ratings from wire to wire were up. It lost that momentum and may not get it back.

Gotta disagree with you there, even with the talent exodus every season it's still way more interesting and relevant even during the regular season then the NBA, which IMO doesn't get interesting until the All-Star break in February.

Exactly.

But I do agree with namepeace about the momentum that was building for the NBA. But let's be honest, a lot of that centered on the LeBron's "Decision" and the hype given to The Heat. Most were intested in whether that team would live up to the hype. Others (like the entire city of Cleveland) were excited that they got whooped in the Finals. Other than that, the other goings on within the league were ingored by the general public.

Adisa said:

Exactly.

But I do agree with namepeace about the momentum that was building for the NBA. But let's be honest, a lot of that centered on the LeBron's "Decision" and the hype given to The Heat. Most were intested in whether that team would live up to the hype. Others (like the entire city of Cleveland) were excited that they got whooped in the Finals. Other than that, the other goings on within the league were ingored by the general public.

Yup that's all it was about last season in the NBA, how well were the Heat gonna do with Lebron

Abdul said:

namepeace said:

today's NBA regular season is much more relevant than NCAA's regular season. And that says a lot. you're talking about March Madness, but for the most part, due in large part to the talent exodus to the NBA, college basketball from November to early March is largely irrelevant. there was a time when tomorrow's NBA stars first played on campus. No more.

The NBA's popularity post-MJ has fallen off, but it's coming off of its best season in at least a decade, maybe two. From July 2010 till June 2011, it held the public's attention. ratings from wire to wire were up. It lost that momentum and may not get it back.

Gotta disagree with you there, even with the talent exodus every season it's still way more interesting and relevant even during the regular season then the NBA, which IMO doesn't get interesting until the All-Star break in February.

Without the caliber of player it used to draw, college basketball's regular season is fairly non-descript. At least the NBA has some interesting matchups on a weekly/bi-monthly basis. Not to mention the Christmas Day games. College basketball draws even less attention from November until late February (right around the time of the All-Star break).

Abdul said:

Adisa said:

Exactly.

But I do agree with namepeace about the momentum that was building for the NBA. But let's be honest, a lot of that centered on the LeBron's "Decision" and the hype given to The Heat. Most were intested in whether that team would live up to the hype. Others (like the entire city of Cleveland) were excited that they got whooped in the Finals. Other than that, the other goings on within the league were ingored by the general public.

Yup that's all it was about last season in the NBA, how well were the Heat gonna do with Lebron

Sure, but it built momentum for the league nonetheless, which goes to my point. Now, the main storylines are dormant:

- the Heatles chase for a title

- the Knicks making a big push for another "piece" (CP3 maybe)

- LA's non-chase chase for D12 and Kobe's twilight phase.

- D12s contract year

- The C's last stand

- The Durant-Westbrook drama in OKC

- Dallas' defense of a title

Storylines have always fueled NBA ratings. And plenty were brewing last season. They'll go cold now.

namepeace said:

Abdul said:

Gotta disagree with you there, even with the talent exodus every season it's still way more interesting and relevant even during the regular season then the NBA, which IMO doesn't get interesting until the All-Star break in February.

Without the caliber of player it used to draw, college basketball's regular season is fairly non-descript. At least the NBA has some interesting matchups on a weekly/bi-monthly basis. Not to mention the Christmas Day games. College basketball draws even less attention from November until late February (right around the time of the All-Star break).

The thing that's great about College hoops is it's always a revolving door of talent, every season it's a new crop of good players coming in and it NEVER stops. It's always cool to see these young players develop over the course of the season, it's rarely a dull moment.

There's an interesting matchup damn near anytime you tune into a College hoops game and it's not all about the big university matchups either, the Mid-Majors play some serious ball too.

The most interesting thing about pre All-Star break NBA is Inside the NBA with Charles, Kenny, and Ernie

Abdul said:

namepeace said:

Without the caliber of player it used to draw, college basketball's regular season is fairly non-descript. At least the NBA has some interesting matchups on a weekly/bi-monthly basis. Not to mention the Christmas Day games. College basketball draws even less attention from November until late February (right around the time of the All-Star break).

The thing that's great about College hoops is it's always a revolving door of talent, every season it's a new crop of good players coming in and it NEVER stops. It's always cool to see these young players develop over the course of the season, it's rarely a dull moment.

There's an interesting matchup damn near anytime you tune into a College hoops game and it's not all about the big university matchups either, the Mid-Majors play some serious ball too.

The most interesting thing about pre All-Star break NBA is Inside the NBA with Charles, Kenny, and Ernie

That's the only reason I watch the NBA nowadays. That'll be the only thing I'll really miss while this mess continues. Someone's gonna have to raise the white flag and it surely won't be David Stern and Co.

[Edited 11/17/11 10:23am]

The NBA and the players have, I think, vastly over-assumed how much the public is going to miss them.

RodeoSchro said:

The NBA and the players have, I think, vastly over-assumed how much the public is going to miss them.

Now this...................I'll have 2 agree with.

I got some silly apology letter from the Hawks last week. What a joke.

RodeoSchro said:

The NBA and the players have, I think, vastly over-assumed how much the public is going to miss them.

They did that back in 1999 when they had the lockout then lol I don't feel sorry for them... not at all. Sorry if I seem heartless over their situation but they made their bed, now lie in it.

Graycap23 said:

RodeoSchro said:

The NBA and the players have, I think, vastly over-assumed how much the public is going to miss them.

Now this...................I'll have 2 agree with.

I got some silly apology letter from the Hawks last week. What a joke.

I agree. But the apathy will turn into resentment once March Madness and the NFL Draft end. Basketball may be played this year, but if it isn't, the full backlash won't be felt until around the time it will really be missed. Americans as a whole can live without a season of hockey, but any of the other pro sports that bail on an entire season will pay the price.

Coming back might be even harder than we think. Flash to November 2012, Kobe, the Big 3 in Boston, faded. Tim Duncan shot, and his teammates, Parker and Ginobili, also slowed by age. The core of the last champs aged into their 30's. The emerging stars hurt by a year of no exposure. If they miss this year, it will hurt the league more than missing a year would have in 1998, or maybe even 5 years ago.

namepeace said:

Graycap23 said:

Now this...................I'll have 2 agree with.

I got some silly apology letter from the Hawks last week. What a joke.

I agree. But the apathy will turn into resentment once March Madness and the NFL Draft end. Basketball may be played this year, but if it isn't, the full backlash won't be felt until around the time it will really be missed. Americans as a whole can live without a season of hockey, but any of the other pro sports that bail on an entire season will pay the price.

Coming back might be even harder than we think. Flash to November 2012, Kobe, the Big 3 in Boston, faded. Tim Duncan shot, and his teammates, Parker and Ginobili, also slowed by age. The core of the last champs aged into their 30's. The emerging stars hurt by a year of no exposure. If they miss this year, it will hurt the league more than missing a year would have in 1998, or maybe even 5 years ago.

I agree 110%. It's like do they even know what they're even doing. Hell the Spurs will be so OLD that they'll be looked on as jokes. Kobe would be slower too as will the Boston Celtics. And where does that leave Lebron? The Knicks? The Bulls even? NBA hasn't really been the same since Jordan finally hang it up in 2003 and the cracks are finally showing now with this situation. There's already a backlash against NBA players and their fans. Fans hate what is going on and if they even saw the players, instead of autographs, they might act crazy and curse them out for being Debbie Downers all because they're trying to be Harriet Tubmans...

Timmy84 said:

namepeace said:

I agree. But the apathy will turn into resentment once March Madness and the NFL Draft end. Basketball may be played this year, but if it isn't, the full backlash won't be felt until around the time it will really be missed. Americans as a whole can live without a season of hockey, but any of the other pro sports that bail on an entire season will pay the price.

Coming back might be even harder than we think. Flash to November 2012, Kobe, the Big 3 in Boston, faded. Tim Duncan shot, and his teammates, Parker and Ginobili, also slowed by age. The core of the last champs aged into their 30's. The emerging stars hurt by a year of no exposure. If they miss this year, it will hurt the league more than missing a year would have in 1998, or maybe even 5 years ago.

I agree 110%. It's like do they even know what they're even doing. Hell the Spurs will be so OLD that they'll be looked on as jokes. Kobe would be slower too as will the Boston Celtics. And where does that leave Lebron? The Knicks? The Bulls even? NBA hasn't really been the same since Jordan finally hang it up in 2003 and the cracks are finally showing now with this situation. There's already a backlash against NBA players and their fans. Fans hate what is going on and if they even saw the players, instead of autographs, they might act crazy and curse them out for being Debbie Downers all because they're trying to be Harriet Tubmans...

And that's why they reached a deal. I find it interesting that both the NFL and NBA settled their lockouts very soon after Kessler was excluded from the negotiations.

namepeace said:

Timmy84 said:

I agree 110%. It's like do they even know what they're even doing. Hell the Spurs will be so OLD that they'll be looked on as jokes. Kobe would be slower too as will the Boston Celtics. And where does that leave Lebron? The Knicks? The Bulls even? NBA hasn't really been the same since Jordan finally hang it up in 2003 and the cracks are finally showing now with this situation. There's already a backlash against NBA players and their fans. Fans hate what is going on and if they even saw the players, instead of autographs, they might act crazy and curse them out for being Debbie Downers all because they're trying to be Harriet Tubmans...

And that's why they reached a deal. I find it interesting that both the NFL and NBA settled their lockouts very soon after Kessler was excluded from the negotiations.

Interesting isn't it?

Graycap23 said:

namepeace said:

And that's why they reached a deal. I find it interesting that both the NFL and NBA settled their lockouts very soon after Kessler was excluded from the negotiations.

Interesting isn't it?

Only 2 explanations.

1. They spend a lot of money on him to screw everything up, only to realize they were wrong and promptly put him on ice.

2. They deliberately trot him out to bludgeon management into movement and then bring in the diplomats to close the deal.

http://espn.go.com/nba/st...-agreement

NEW YORK -- NBA owners and players reached a tentative agreement early Saturday to end the 149-day lockout and hope to begin the delayed season on Christmas Day.

Neither side provided many specifics but said the only words players and fans wanted to hear.

"We want to play basketball," NBA commissioner David Stern said.

After a secret meeting earlier this week, the sides met for more than 15 hours Friday, working to try to save the season. This handshake deal, however, still must be ratified by both owners and players.

Stern said it was "subject to a variety of approvals and very complex machinations, but we're optimistic that will all come to pass and that the NBA season will begin Dec. 25."

Barring a change in scheduling, the 2011-12 season will open with the Boston Celtics at New York Knicks, followed by Miami at Dallas in an NBA finals rematch before MVP Derrick Rose and Chicago close the tripleheader against Kobe Bryant and the Lakers.

President Barack Obama gave a thumbs-up when told about the tentative settlement after he finished playing basketball at Fort McNair in Washington on Saturday morning.

The league plans a 66-game season and aims to open training camps Dec. 9. Stern has said it would take about 30 days from an agreement to playing the first game.

"All I feel right now is 'finally,'" Dwyane Wade told The Associated Press.

Just 12 days after talks broke down and Stern declared the NBA could be headed to a "nuclear winter," he sat next to union executive director Billy Hunter to announce the deal.

"We thought it was in both of our interest to try to reach a resolution and save the game and to be able to provide the mind of superb entertainment the NBA historically has provided," Hunter said.

A majority on each side is needed to approve the agreement. The NBA needs votes from 15 of 29 owners. (The league owns the New Orleans Hornets.)

Stern said the labor committee plans to discuss the agreement later Saturday and expects them to endorse it and recommend to the full board.

The union needs a simple majority of its 430-plus members. That process is a bit more complicated after the players dissolved the union Nov. 14. Now, they must drop their antitrust lawsuit in Minnesota and reform the union before voting on the deal.

Because the union disbanded, a new collective bargaining agreement can only be completed once the union has reformed. Drug testing and other issues still must be negotiated between the league and the players.

"We're very pleased we've come this far," Stern said. "There's still a lot of work to be done."

Participating in the talks for the league were Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver, Spurs owner Peter Holt, the chairman of the labor relations committee, and attorneys Rick Buchanan and Dan Rube.

The players were represented by executive director Billy Hunter, president Derek Fisher, vice president Maurice Evans, attorney Ron Klempner and economist Kevin Murphy.

Owners locked out the players July 1 and the sides spent most of the summer and fall battling over the division of revenues and other changes owners wanted in a new collective bargaining agreement.

They said they lost hundreds of millions of dollars in each year of the former deal, ratified in 2005, and they wanted a system where the big-market teams wouldn't have the ability to outspend their smaller counterparts.

Players fought against those changes, not wanting to see any teams taken out of the market when they became free agents.

"This was not an easy agreement for anyone. The owners came in having suffered substantial losses and feeling the system wasn't working fairly across all teams," Silver said. "I certainly know the players had strong views about expectations in terms of what they should be getting from the system. It required a lot of compromise from both parties' part, and I think that's what we saw today."

But it was never easy. The day required multiple calls with the owners' labor relations committee, all the while knowing another breakdown in talks would mean not only the loss of the Christmas schedule but also throw the entire season in jeopardy.

Stern said that despite some "bumps" Friday evening, "the greater good required us to knock ourselves out and come to this tentative understanding."

He denied the litigation was a factor in accelerating a deal, but things happened relatively quickly after the players filed a suit that could have won them some $6 billion in damages if the court ruled the lockout was illegal.

"For us the litigation is something that just has to be dealt with," Stern said. "It was not the reason for the settlement. The reason for the settlement was we've got fans, we've got players who would like to play and we've got others who are dependent on us.

"And it's always been our goal to reach a deal that was fair to both sides and get us playing as soon as possible, but that took a little time."

And led to the second shortened season in NBA history, joining the 1998-99 lockout that reduced the schedule to 50 games. This time the league will miss 16 games off the normal schedule.