What are these owners and players doing?

Trying 2 kill the golden goose?

Talk about greed.

It's not looking good right now, I'm starting to think there won't be a 2011-2012 NBA season.

I remember one of the players saying this summer that he had been told by the union to plan for a complete loss of the 2011-2012 season, and possibly the 2012-2013 season, too.

I thought that was just posturing, but these guys do not appear to be close.

NBA: offer

http://www.nba.com/news/Memo_to_Players_111311_3.pdf

People are upset that the two sides can agree on how the money going to divided, I understand but this is about each side protecting their interest. As I said before, no one gived anything voluntarily away for free. People need to get out of this mindset just because the make much much less they'd be grateful for if they made a million, that's part of the problme We live in a free market economy in theory....

I imagine the problem is that the owners want to tie the new revenue sharing to formulas conceived in a bad economy.

The players have figured out that if those same formulas apply when times get good again, they will be getting the short end of the revenue stick.

Frankly, I don't care. I like football, and by "football" I mean "soccer", so much now that all the other sports could go on strike and I wouldn't care.

Except for baseball. I still love baseball and always will.

TD3 said:

People are upset that the two sides can agree on how the money going to divided, I understand but this is about each side protecting their interest. As I said before, no one gived anything voluntarily away for free. People need to get out of this mindset just because the make much much less they'd be grateful for if they made a million, that's part of the problme We live in a free market economy in theory....

That's exactly right, and there's no greater free market than athletics. At least, after the player becomes a free agent. THEN it's a free market.

It's slavery until then.

It is borderline INSANE that either side would let it come 2 this.

Missiing out on multi-millions 2 settle something that will be settled at some point anyway?

Graycap23 said:

It is borderline INSANE that either side would let it come 2 this.

Missiing out on multi-millions 2 settle something that will be settled at some point anyway?

That's what I don't get. They are fighting over money, and none of them will be making any if they don't play any games.

Plus it makes the whole sport look worse than it already does.

And while I get that both sides might have valid points, I just can't give a crap about the money problems of millionaires!

NDRU said:

Graycap23 said:

It is borderline INSANE that either side would let it come 2 this.

Missiing out on multi-millions 2 settle something that will be settled at some point anyway?

That's what I don't get. They are fighting over money, and none of them will be making any if they don't play any games.

Plus it makes the whole sport look worse than it already does.

And while I get that both sides might have valid points, I just can't give a crap about the money problems of millionaires!

Co-sign.

It really doesn't matter. Right now we've got football, right after that will be the NCAA b-ball tourney, and we have the 2012 Summer Olympics. It's the sports media's job to make the NBA lockout seem like a bigger deal than it is.

Or maybe I'm the only one that really doesn't care.

Adisa said:

It really doesn't matter. Right now we've got football, right after that will be the NCAA b-ball tourney, and we have the 2012 Summer Olympics. It's the sports media's job to make the NBA lockout seem like a bigger deal than it is.

Or maybe I'm the only one that really doesn't care.

Respectfully disagree, my brother. The NBA had the most intriguing wire-to-wire season in the post-Jordan era (or maybe longer). The league was competitive from top to bottom, small market to large market. That is the type of momentum to be built on. Owners and players squandered it. With the league so competitive, every week of the season counts.

The union's move is puzzling, because decertification in what would have been week 3 of the season is too late. Players are already missing checks. The initial hearings and rulings on any antitrust lawsuit may not come until after Christmas. The league filed a preemptive suit months ago that they can use to try to stay the antitrust suit. They run the real risk of losing a year of paychecks and THEN the lawsuit, at which point they'll be lucky to get 47% BRI.

The players may have waited too late.

But maybe owners who are risking folding if no ball is played this season will amp up the pressure on the league to deal. That may be what the players are hoping for.

[Edited 11/14/11 16:13pm]

The slavery analogy is tired and beyond silly.

At this point, I don't even care. I'd watch [of course] if it does happen though.......

Adisa said:

It really doesn't matter. Right now we've got football, right after that will be the NCAA b-ball tourney, and we have the 2012 Summer Olympics. It's the sports media's job to make the NBA lockout seem like a bigger deal than it is.

Or maybe I'm the only one that really doesn't care.

No, you are part of the majority: 76% of people polled do N...ss the NBA

In the words of Kenny Smith.

"It's Ova!"

TD3 said:

The slavery analogy is tired and beyond silly.

Name another industry in which you are not free to solicit offers from as many employers as want to make you offers.

Seriously, name one other industry besides sports that works that way.

TD3 said:

People are upset that the two sides can agree on how the money going to divided, I understand but this is about each side protecting their interest. As I said before, no one gived anything voluntarily away for free. People need to get out of this mindset just because the make much much less they'd be grateful for if they made a million, that's part of the problme We live in a free market economy in theory....

The problem is a few teams are making serious money (Celtics, Lakers, Heat, Knicks, Bulls, Mavericks), the bulk of the teams are either just breaking even or losing a little bit of money, and some of them (Kings, Raptors, Hawks, Hornets, Timberwolves) are seriously bleeding red ink. There's no unanimity among the owners about how to deal with this lockout other than to blame the players for their own mismanagement. The most serious issue is revenue sharing, and while there's a basic revenue sharing system in place among the teams for the TV contracts and merchandise, the amount of monet generated by the TV contracts pales in comparison to that of the NFL, where all teams spread the wealth evenly. That's not the case in the NBA, where richer teams like the Celtics and Lakers can charge huge amounts for personal seat licenses while the poorer teams struggle to fill the stands even with heavily discounted ticket deals. Granted, some of that has to do with the poorer teams consistently having bad records for years and years, but some of that has to do with establishing basketball franchises where there is not much interest in the product. Case in point, Toronto is a hockey lover's paradise, but there's not much interest in basketball. And while Atlanta and New Orleans have fielded playoff teams the past few years, their attendance has been lacking due to the fact that the local fanbase loves NFL football, college football, and college basketball. In New Orleans' case, they were having difficulty filling the arena even before Hurricane Katrina, and a lot of their fanbase was washed away along the lower 9th ward after Katrina hit.

But even that can't explain why some owners have paid huge contracts to players who have underperformed or been complete busts. You have players like Gilbert Arenas who was paid $100 million dollars and hasn't dome much of anything, and you had other teams pay huge contracts for untested rookies like Marcus Beasley, Greg Oden, Kwame Brown, and Darko Milicic, who either couldn't handle the pressure of being a top lottery pick or were very injury prone. Some of this is bad luck on the owners part, but some of it is just plain bad scouting. Fact is, some of the owners got way in over their heads, and they wanted the players or fans to bail them out, either by demanding the player's salaries be cut or threatening to move to another city if the local government didn't pay to build a new arena for them.

As for the labor issue, David Stern is deliberately trying to screw the players on behalf of the owners by imposing all of these deadlines to make them accept a really crappy deal that will affect them for the next ten years. Most people wouldn't expect to purchase a house to live in for the next 10 to 20 years within 72 hours of an offer, so why should the players be subjected to thsoe same constraints in their labor contract? For the most part, with a few exceptions (Mark Cuban), most of the owners have been negotiating in bad faith, so the players shouldn't even be contemplating any offers until the owners realistically deal with their own issues.

728huey said:

But even that can't explain why some owners have paid huge contracts to players who have underperformed or been complete busts. You have players like Gilbert Arenas who was paid $100 million dollars and hasn't dome much of anything, and you had other teams pay huge contracts for untested rookies like Marcus Beasley, Greg Oden, Kwame Brown, and Darko Milicic, who either couldn't handle the pressure of being a top lottery pick or were very injury prone. Some of this is bad luck on the owners part, but some of it is just plain bad scouting. Fact is, some of the owners got way in over their heads, and they wanted the players or fans to bail them out, either by demanding the player's salaries be cut or threatening to move to another city if the local government didn't pay to build a new arena for them.

The owners want the players to save them from themselves, which is bullshit. Run your franchise better, or get out(as Michael Jordan told Abe Polian years ago when he was on the other side). Stop giving contracts to bums like Eddy Curry, Jerome James or Jared Jeffries.

sextonseven said:

If the union gets de-certified and can sue for treble (triple) damages, that dollar figure could be so big that there would be no way the players would settle this year. They might figure it's worth more to go after $6 billion, or whatever the tripled damage they seek is.

My advice to basketball fans is, start loving the college game NOW.

RodeoSchro said:

If the union gets de-certified and can sue for treble (triple) damages, that dollar figure could be so big that there would be no way the players would settle this year. They might figure it's worth more to go after $6 billion, or whatever the tripled damage they seek is.

My advice to basketball fans is, start loving the college game NOW.

I used to enjoy the college game, but most of the best players left. I personally do not think their antitrust suit stands much of a chance, and given the dec action the league filed months ago, it may even get stayed.

The NLRA may need some tweaking to deal with pro sports leagues.

I side with the Players...Hold out until you get the best deal...Yes it is a battle of the Millionaires VS the Billionaires..Billions are made so the Players should get a bigger piece of the pie...

namepeace said:

sextonseven said:

No, you are part of the majority: 76% of people polled do N...ss the NBA

I think that number drops after Christmas.

I say it may drop in the spring, when sports fans merely want something to watch on tv. In terms of cultural significance, today's NBA ranks lower than NCAA basketball. Even casual fans buy into the excitement and have office polls via brackets and whatnot. The NBA is really just not that big of a deal anymore.

Somewhere a beer vendor is saying "we are the 99%!"

Don't care. I have the NFL for now.

I tell you what, they're messing up hot wing night. But then again, There's College basketball, football night, hockey, and in some parts of Chi-town, roller derby!

At this point, I no longer get excited when they bring it up in the news. It's always an update that the season's date is pushed back, that somebody says no, and the union is fixin to come apart like a soggy cookie. Although I was really looking forward to seeing that fine ass Joakim Noah run around and around and around the court... I suppose I can survive.

NFL nachos and a beer for this lady.

phunkdaddy said:

Don't care. I have the NFL for now.

I care, but I can see why a lot of people would not. First of all, football is still occupying most people's attention, and it will continue to do so all the way through the college bowl games and the Super Bowl. Second, there's some college basketball to take its place, and by the time the Final Four tournament is completed the baseball season is just beginning. And there's still hockey for some fans. Plus, the NBA doesn't have a firm grip on the people's imagination like the NFL does and baseball does to some extent, so the longer this labor impasse goes on the more irrelevant the NBA may become.

-

I miss the NBA. Football is my favorite sport, but it's only on 2 - 3 times per week. I need the NBA to fill in the off days. Also, Jersey fans will only have the Nets for one more year. We need them back now so we can enjoy some live action. They'll be in Brooklyn next year.

The Commis said they would need 25 days from when an agreement is met to start the season. Since we're at mid November already I believe we can safely say December and more specifically, those Christmas Day games are out.

-

Adisa said:

namepeace said:

sextonseven said: I think that number drops after Christmas.

I say it may drop in the spring, when sports fans merely want something to watch on tv. In terms of cultural significance, today's NBA ranks lower than NCAA basketball. Even casual fans buy into the excitement and have office polls via brackets and whatnot. The NBA is really just not that big of a deal anymore.

today's NBA regular season is much more relevant than NCAA's regular season. And that says a lot. you're talking about March Madness, but for the most part, due in large part to the talent exodus to the NBA, college basketball from November to early March is largely irrelevant. there was a time when tomorrow's NBA stars first played on campus. No more.

The NBA's popularity post-MJ has fallen off, but it's coming off of its best season in at least a decade, maybe two. From July 2010 till June 2011, it held the public's attention. ratings from wire to wire were up. It lost that momentum and may not get it back.