johnart said:

paintedlady said:

So that other people who are NOT black will watch the movie... crossing over. $$$

Wait, I thought Tyler had already crossed over hence all the coonery comments and how folk only like a black man in a dress comments thrown his way.

That was MY statement... so yes, it is easy to see that Kim Kardashian is a cash cow/ it girl and Tyler does whatever he can to get paid and get his hustle on... Tom Foolery included, why? Because that's what people in general want and he's smart enough to know that.

You know I ain't lying. I never said he already crossed over. I said he gained major popularity through a grass roots effort by HIS people's support not white folks.

I know its a tough pill to swallow and sounds racist, but it is what it is... people are still very much uninterested in seeing a strong black man and hearing his story unless he's a thug, some sort of weak sob story or comic foil. Its a fomula for success in the movie biz. Black man comedy = ridiculous man in a dress actin' a fool. Blame the producers.

[Edited 10/25/11 6:49am]

nursev said:

Layzie said:

Why would he hire her? Black people don't care much for her.

We don't hate her-we just know a ho when we see one.

Wouldn't she be classified as a woman of color or have a majority appeal to women of color which encircles a lot of different groups of people that don't necessarily classify themselves as black or white? That's what I'm thinking, Tyler's testing the water of the Armenians, Bangladeshians and all those other different types of folks not represented in Hollywood.

Layzie said:

Why would he hire her? Black people don't care much for her.

It's THAT sista booty Kim has. Trust me!

free2bfreeda said:

Layzie said:

Why would he hire her? Black people don't care much for her.

why do people make generalizing statements like this? one person cannot speak for a whole race.

how many black people were interviewed for one to come to this conclusion?

jfc, this bitch ain't exactly running for office. If you like her, fine. I'm saying that blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the Kardashian fanbase. Fair enough?

Layzie said:

free2bfreeda said:

why do people make generalizing statements like this? one person cannot speak for a whole race.

how many black people were interviewed for one to come to this conclusion?

jfc, this bitch ain't exactly running for office. If you like her, fine. I'm saying that blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the Kardashian fanbase. Fair enough?

who exactly is in her fanbase? I don't know a single person who has anything good to say about her!

morningsong said:

Wouldn't she be classified as a woman of color or have a majority appeal to women of color which encircles a lot of different groups of people that don't necessarily classify themselves as black or white? That's what I'm thinking, Tyler's testing the water of the Armenians, Bangladeshians and all those other different types of folks not represented in Hollywood.

I think she's more of a flavor of the month as far as popularity.... a cash cow. I see Mr. Perry just jumping on the reality bandwagon to make a heap of money. They can say what they want to about Kim, she has a BRAND and its like putting a designer name on that movie to generate interest.

Donald Trump does the same thing with his celebrity apprentice show. For example, he added the likes of Nene Leaks and Latoya Jackson for a ratings win.

NDRU said:

Layzie said:

jfc, this bitch ain't exactly running for office. If you like her, fine. I'm saying that blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the Kardashian fanbase. Fair enough?

who exactly is in her fanbase? I don't know a single person who has anything good to say about her!

My point exactly. But no, this family does have fans. I remeber seeing pics of a crowd of people around Kim and a few young girls had tears in their eyes while she took pictures with them.

Oh come on Tyler.

free2bfreeda said:

Layzie said:

free2bfreeda said:

why do people make generalizing statements like this? one person cannot speak for a whole race.

how many black people were interviewed for one to come to this conclusion?

jfc, this bitch ain't exactly running for office. If you like her, fine. I'm saying that blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the Kardashian fanbase. Fair enough?

OMG ***clutches pearls***

another abdominal workout brought on by intense laughter.

missfee said:

HotGritz said:

If Idris Elba or Michael Ealy play her love interest I will shoot somebody!

For some reason, I have a hunch that Idris won't be partaking in any of Tyler's coonery anytime soon.

One Perry film was enough. Remember Daddy's Little Girls?

Honestly, I think Idris' acting chops would have been put to better use in "The Family That Preys" but that's just MHO.

Layzie said:

free2bfreeda said:

why do people make generalizing statements like this? one person cannot speak for a whole race.

how many black people were interviewed for one to come to this conclusion?

jfc, this bitch ain't exactly running for office. If you like her, fine. I'm saying that blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the Kardashian fanbase. Fair enough?

perhaps better stated and less of a generalized statement , "most blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the k. k. etc.

as far as i can recall, no one asked me what i think of K. Kardashian. i'd like (the ) to decide for myself on individual opinions and not be grouped or embedded into someone else's hypothetical conclusion.

i feel that's fair enough

[Edited 10/25/11 23:53pm]

Why Tyler?

free2bfreeda said:

Layzie said:

jfc, this bitch ain't exactly running for office. If you like her, fine. I'm saying that blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the Kardashian fanbase. Fair enough?

perhaps better stated and less of a generalized statement , "most blacks aren't exactly a huge chunk of the k. k. etc.

as far as i can can recall, no one asked me what i think of K. Kardashian. i'd like (the ) to decide for myself on individual opinions and not be grouped or embedded into someone else's hypothetical conclusion.

i feel that's fair enough

[Edited 10/25/11 15:34pm]

The fuck? Is it really that serious? And if you were to throw out the semantics, isn't that what I basically said?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

basically no-not the same, even considering the semantics p.o.v., also not that serious.

but it's so' kay! ur not in this world to live up to my expectations, nor i urs.

the two of us are living proof that not all people think alike or view things the same regardless of gender, race, or whatever!

i leave you with a famous quote by william blake

"To generalize is to be an idiot. To particularize is the alone distinction of merit. General knowledge is the knowledge that idiots possess."

[Edited 10/25/11 17:56pm]

paintedlady said:

johnart said:

Wait, I thought Tyler had already crossed over hence all the coonery comments and how folk only like a black man in a dress comments thrown his way.

That was MY statement... so yes, it is easy to see that Kim Kardashian is a cash cow/ it girl and Tyler does whatever he can to get paid and get his hustle on... Tom Foolery included, why? Because that's what people in general want and he's smart enough to know that.

You know I ain't lying. I never said he already crossed over. I said he gained major popularity through a grass roots effort by HIS people's support not white folks.

I know its a tough pill to swallow and sounds racist, but it is what it is... people are still very much uninterested in seeing a strong black man and hearing his story unless he's a thug, some sort of weak sob story or comic foil. Its a fomula for success in the movie biz. Black man comedy = ridiculous man in a dress actin' a fool. Blame the producers.

[Edited 10/25/11 6:49am]

A whole lotta folk have accused MR. Perry of coonery. It's not just your statement. Here and all over other sites.

My confusion is that if he's gained his popularity (as a man in a dress, for the most part) by the support of HIS people and not white folk, then doesn't that imply that black folk only like to see a black man in a dress on the screen as well? If his community has the power to catapult him to the star he is today then surely it also has the power to bring other films/actors/writers/directors/producers to great success.
It's not a tough pill to swallow at all. The statement doesn't come off as racist to me, just un-even and disjointed. You can't have it both ways. Black people made Tyler who he is...but other projects don't do as well because white people don't wanna see strong black men on film?

johnart said:

paintedlady said:

That was MY statement... so yes, it is easy to see that Kim Kardashian is a cash cow/ it girl and Tyler does whatever he can to get paid and get his hustle on... Tom Foolery included, why? Because that's what people in general want and he's smart enough to know that.

You know I ain't lying. I never said he already crossed over. I said he gained major popularity through a grass roots effort by HIS people's support not white folks.

I know its a tough pill to swallow and sounds racist, but it is what it is... people are still very much uninterested in seeing a strong black man and hearing his story unless he's a thug, some sort of weak sob story or comic foil. Its a fomula for success in the movie biz. Black man comedy = ridiculous man in a dress actin' a fool. Blame the producers.

[Edited 10/25/11 6:49am]

A whole lotta folk have accused MR. Perry of coonery. It's not just your statement. Here and all over other sites.

My confusion is that if he's gained his popularity (as a man in a dress, for the most part) by the support of HIS people and not white folk, then doesn't that imply that black folk only like to see a black man in a dress on the screen as well? If his community has the power to catapult him to the star he is today then surely it also has the power to bring other films/actors/writers/directors/producers to great success.
It's not a tough pill to swallow at all. The statement doesn't come off as racist to me, just un-even and disjointed. You can't have it both ways. Black people made Tyler who he is...but other projects don't do as well because white people don't wanna see strong black men on film?

The disconnect results from an oversimplification. Certain black people have made Perry wildly successful. His market is church-going black people -- particularly church-going black women of a certain type. He casts with them in mind. His storylines cater to them.

To ascribe that financial support and target demographic to all black people misses that point. I've had a fairly consistent Perry boycott in place for many years, deviating only rarely and when on dates with -- you guessed it -- church-going black women who liked his movies.

None of that negates the fact that many other types of black-targeted or -driven movies have failed to garner the same kind of economic or crossover success. Nor does it negate the fact that he routinely is criticized by other blacks -- some of whom also attend church regularly.

It's not trying to have it both ways. It's just the complexity that results from concurrent realities.

johnart said:

paintedlady said:

That was MY statement... so yes, it is easy to see that Kim Kardashian is a cash cow/ it girl and Tyler does whatever he can to get paid and get his hustle on... Tom Foolery included, why? Because that's what people in general want and he's smart enough to know that.

You know I ain't lying. I never said he already crossed over. I said he gained major popularity through a grass roots effort by HIS people's support not white folks.

I know its a tough pill to swallow and sounds racist, but it is what it is... people are still very much uninterested in seeing a strong black man and hearing his story unless he's a thug, some sort of weak sob story or comic foil. Its a fomula for success in the movie biz. Black man comedy = ridiculous man in a dress actin' a fool. Blame the producers.

[Edited 10/25/11 6:49am]

A whole lotta folk have accused MR. Perry of coonery. It's not just your statement. Here and all over other sites.

My confusion is that if he's gained his popularity (as a man in a dress, for the most part) by the support of HIS people and not white folk, then doesn't that imply that black folk only like to see a black man in a dress on the screen as well? If his community has the power to catapult him to the star he is today then surely it also has the power to bring other films/actors/writers/directors/producers to great success.
It's not a tough pill to swallow at all. The statement doesn't come off as racist to me, just un-even and disjointed. You can't have it both ways. Black people made Tyler who he is...but other projects don't do as well because white people don't wanna see strong black men on film?

I criticized the hollywood formulas not really the man himself... but Mr. Perry knows how to make a buck using any formula that works despite the fact that some in the black community do not like it.

Other projects don't do as well because they do not generate as much interest. See Mr. Perry knows what is funny and what sells... he caters to the bible belt mentality and church folk, people who worked at not using his formulas complain about him because they claim no person needs to go that route anymore.

It may sound like a contradiction but its the same thing when people in the black community argue about the advancement of black people as a whole...

Are we not hustling to get ahead or are there really stumbling blocks that keep blacks from moving forward? The argument of Mr. Perry's work as falls in the same vein...

but then lets put 50 Cent, in that catergory also... he plays thug to sell records, because he says all the time that folks do not want to hear rap music coming from a formally educated man that doesn't get into any trouble. He works with a formula to sell records, and so does Mr. Perry.

I think its the same reason why we do not have many stories with obese leading men and women. Why sex sells and other Hollywood notions that the masses enjoy.

A black man in a dress is ridiculous and funny, its a formula that works, so IMHO everyone loves a black man in a dress... because we find it funny. We also love a good rags to riches story and we buy into that "prince charming rescues girl in trouble" bit all the time in romantic situations.

The girl usually finds love in order to be "happy" ...

I myself love some of those formulas, but it is refreshing when some films break the mold and make us think differently. Those films are still too far and few inbetween.

ThreadBare said:

johnart said:

A whole lotta folk have accused MR. Perry of coonery. It's not just your statement. Here and all over other sites.

My confusion is that if he's gained his popularity (as a man in a dress, for the most part) by the support of HIS people and not white folk, then doesn't that imply that black folk only like to see a black man in a dress on the screen as well? If his community has the power to catapult him to the star he is today then surely it also has the power to bring other films/actors/writers/directors/producers to great success.
It's not a tough pill to swallow at all. The statement doesn't come off as racist to me, just un-even and disjointed. You can't have it both ways. Black people made Tyler who he is...but other projects don't do as well because white people don't wanna see strong black men on film?

The disconnect results from an oversimplification. Certain black people have made Perry wildly successful. His market is church-going black people -- particularly church-going black women of a certain type. He casts with them in mind. His storylines cater to them.

To ascribe that financial support and target demographic to all black people misses that point. I've had a fairly consistent Perry boycott in place for many years, deviating only rarely and when on dates with -- you guessed it -- church-going black women who liked his movies.

None of that negates the fact that many other types of black-targeted or -driven movies have failed to garner the same kind of economic or crossover success. Nor does it negate the fact that he routinely is criticized by other blacks -- some of whom also attend church regularly.

It's not trying to have it both ways. It's just the complexity that results from concurrent realities.

So church going black females, of a certain type made Tyler who he is...but other projects don't do as well because white people don't wanna see strong black men on film?

I get what you're saying, and I do think things are more complex than we like to or hope for them to be. Just like other times they're simpler than we make them out to be.

What seemingly remains is that whatever specific niche is constantly credited for his success, a whole different segment of the population is often noted for the reason that more "serious" or "quality" Black films/material not achieving success.

[Edited 10/25/11 21:03pm]

ThreadBare said:

johnart said:

A whole lotta folk have accused MR. Perry of coonery. It's not just your statement. Here and all over other sites.

My confusion is that if he's gained his popularity (as a man in a dress, for the most part) by the support of HIS people and not white folk, then doesn't that imply that black folk only like to see a black man in a dress on the screen as well? If his community has the power to catapult him to the star he is today then surely it also has the power to bring other films/actors/writers/directors/producers to great success.
It's not a tough pill to swallow at all. The statement doesn't come off as racist to me, just un-even and disjointed. You can't have it both ways. Black people made Tyler who he is...but other projects don't do as well because white people don't wanna see strong black men on film?

The disconnect results from an oversimplification. Certain black people have made Perry wildly successful. His market is church-going black people -- particularly church-going black women of a certain type. He casts with them in mind. His storylines cater to them.

To ascribe that financial support and target demographic to all black people misses that point. I've had a fairly consistent Perry boycott in place for many years, deviating only rarely and when on dates with -- you guessed it -- church-going black women who liked his movies.

None of that negates the fact that many other types of black-targeted or -driven movies have failed to garner the same kind of economic or crossover success. Nor does it negate the fact that he routinely is criticized by other blacks -- some of whom also attend church regularly.

It's not trying to have it both ways. It's just the complexity that results from concurrent realities.

Thanks for this... you put it better than I could.

paintedlady said:

johnart said:

A whole lotta folk have accused MR. Perry of coonery. It's not just your statement. Here and all over other sites.

My confusion is that if he's gained his popularity (as a man in a dress, for the most part) by the support of HIS people and not white folk, then doesn't that imply that black folk only like to see a black man in a dress on the screen as well? If his community has the power to catapult him to the star he is today then surely it also has the power to bring other films/actors/writers/directors/producers to great success.
It's not a tough pill to swallow at all. The statement doesn't come off as racist to me, just un-even and disjointed. You can't have it both ways. Black people made Tyler who he is...but other projects don't do as well because white people don't wanna see strong black men on film?

I criticized the hollywood formulas not really the man himself... but Mr. Perry knows how to make a buck using any formula that works despite the fact that some in the black community do not like it.

Other projects don't do as well because they do not generate as much interest. See Mr. Perry knows what is funny and what sells... he caters to the bible belt mentality and church folk, people who worked at not using his formulas complain about him because they claim no person needs to go that route anymore.

It may sound like a contradiction but its the same thing when people in the black community argue about the advancement of black people as a whole...

Are we not hustling to get ahead or are there really stumbling blocks that keep blacks from moving forward? The argument of Mr. Perry's work as falls in the same vein...

but then lets put 50 Cent, in that catergory also... he plays thug to sell records, because he says all the time that folks do not want to hear rap music coming from a formally educated man that doesn't get into any trouble. He works with a formula to sell records, and so does Mr. Perry.

I think its the same reason why we do not have many stories with obese leading men and women. Why sex sells and other Hollywood notions that the masses enjoy.

A black man in a dress is ridiculous and funny, its a formula that works, so IMHO everyone loves a black man in a dress... because we find it funny. We also love a good rags to riches story and we buy into that "prince charming rescues girl in trouble" bit all the time in romantic situations.

The girl usually finds love in order to be "happy" ...

I myself love some of those formulas, but it is refreshing when some films break the mold and make us think differently. Those films are still too far and few inbetween.

Agreed

But I think folk like to laugh at any man in a dress.

johnart said:

ThreadBare said:

The disconnect results from an oversimplification. Certain black people have made Perry wildly successful. His market is church-going black people -- particularly church-going black women of a certain type. He casts with them in mind. His storylines cater to them.

To ascribe that financial support and target demographic to all black people misses that point. I've had a fairly consistent Perry boycott in place for many years, deviating only rarely and when on dates with -- you guessed it -- church-going black women who liked his movies.

None of that negates the fact that many other types of black-targeted or -driven movies have failed to garner the same kind of economic or crossover success. Nor does it negate the fact that he routinely is criticized by other blacks -- some of whom also attend church regularly.

It's not trying to have it both ways. It's just the complexity that results from concurrent realities.

So church going black females, of a certain type made Tyler who he is...but and other projects don't do as well because many white people aren't interested in seeing don't wanna see strong, complex black men on film?

What seemingly remains is that whatever specific niche is constantly credited for his success, a whole different segment of the population is often noted for the reason that more "serious" or "quality" Black films/material not achieving success.

[Edited 10/25/11 20:53pm]

Perhaps because Perry is nearly singular in his ability to create and win distribution for his films -- they're guaranteed moneymakers. Many of the other films that may have more dramatic or controversial fare and story arcs seek more traditional routes to creation and distribution (i.e., Hollywood) and don't get green-lighted by studios. That latter segment you reference would be the segment that holds the reins in Hollywood.

johnart said:

paintedlady said:

I criticized the hollywood formulas not really the man himself... but Mr. Perry knows how to make a buck using any formula that works despite the fact that some in the black community do not like it.

Other projects don't do as well because they do not generate as much interest. See Mr. Perry knows what is funny and what sells... he caters to the bible belt mentality and church folk, people who worked at not using his formulas complain about him because they claim no person needs to go that route anymore.

It may sound like a contradiction but its the same thing when people in the black community argue about the advancement of black people as a whole...

Are we not hustling to get ahead or are there really stumbling blocks that keep blacks from moving forward? The argument of Mr. Perry's work as falls in the same vein...

but then lets put 50 Cent, in that catergory also... he plays thug to sell records, because he says all the time that folks do not want to hear rap music coming from a formally educated man that doesn't get into any trouble. He works with a formula to sell records, and so does Mr. Perry.

I think its the same reason why we do not have many stories with obese leading men and women. Why sex sells and other Hollywood notions that the masses enjoy.

A black man in a dress is ridiculous and funny, its a formula that works, so IMHO everyone loves a black man in a dress... because we find it funny. We also love a good rags to riches story and we buy into that "prince charming rescues girl in trouble" bit all the time in romantic situations.

The girl usually finds love in order to be "happy" ...

I myself love some of those formulas, but it is refreshing when some films break the mold and make us think differently. Those films are still too far and few inbetween.

Agreed

But I think folk like to laugh at any man in a dress.

Oh yes, but when most black men aren't given work unless the role requires wearing a skirt then we need more roles for those brothas...and better scripts.

It is too common a practice to see a comedian who happens to be black and male in a damn dress... get a new shtick guys!

johnart said:

paintedlady said:

I criticized the hollywood formulas not really the man himself... but Mr. Perry knows how to make a buck using any formula that works despite the fact that some in the black community do not like it.

Other projects don't do as well because they do not generate as much interest. See Mr. Perry knows what is funny and what sells... he caters to the bible belt mentality and church folk, people who worked at not using his formulas complain about him because they claim no person needs to go that route anymore.

It may sound like a contradiction but its the same thing when people in the black community argue about the advancement of black people as a whole...

Are we not hustling to get ahead or are there really stumbling blocks that keep blacks from moving forward? The argument of Mr. Perry's work as falls in the same vein...

but then lets put 50 Cent, in that catergory also... he plays thug to sell records, because he says all the time that folks do not want to hear rap music coming from a formally educated man that doesn't get into any trouble. He works with a formula to sell records, and so does Mr. Perry.

I think its the same reason why we do not have many stories with obese leading men and women. Why sex sells and other Hollywood notions that the masses enjoy.

A black man in a dress is ridiculous and funny, its a formula that works, so IMHO everyone loves a black man in a dress... because we find it funny. We also love a good rags to riches story and we buy into that "prince charming rescues girl in trouble" bit all the time in romantic situations.

The girl usually finds love in order to be "happy" ...

I myself love some of those formulas, but it is refreshing when some films break the mold and make us think differently. Those films are still too far and few inbetween.

Agreed

But I think folk like to laugh at any man in a dress.

This might not be news to you.

nursev said:

Layzie said:

Why would he hire her? Black people don't care much for her.

We don't hate her-we just know a ho when we see one.

[img:$uid]http://i40.tinypic.com/11276lt.jpg[/img:$uid]

bboy87 said:

nursev said:

Layzie said: We don't hate her-we just know a ho when we see one.

[img:$uid]http://i40.tinypic.com/11276lt.jpg[/img:$uid]

[Edited 10/25/11 21:13pm]

SCNDLS said:

nursev said:

Layzie said: We don't hate her-we just know a ho when we see one.

And a pimp (Mama Kris)

I thought that WAS Kris in that picture in the first post

I think we all make points that are valid.

The reason I always question these type of statements is because I truly believe that the power exsits within most of our "minority" communities (black, hispanic, gay, whatever...) to stand behind our creative brothers and sisters and make our own success stories. While not often enough, unique and complex projects get the green light and when they do, we seem to (as communities) spend more time discussing why they failed than ensuring their success. It frustrates me time and time again.

johnart said:

I think we all make points that are valid.

The reason I always question these type of statements is because I truly believe that the power exsits within most of our "minority" communities (black, hispanic, gay, whatever...) to stand behind our creative brothers and sisters and make our own success stories. While not often enough, unique and complex projects get the green light and when they do, we seem to (as communities) spend more time discussing why they failed than ensuring their success. It frustrates me time and time again.

I figured that was the gist of your questions. I've shared in that frustration and have tried to patronize vehicles that try to correct that trend. But, the color green trumps all the others, in Hollywood.