itsnotallover said:

davetherave6767 said:

The yhings u have said here r very interesting and thought provoking...The car and it being stolen.

Then Dave saying dont feel guilty..Thats some strange shit...Eye go on about what scripture says on this subject cuz eye want this thread 2b fun with fun stories...Ur post is very interesting..

Sorry Dave didn't understand that bit

Sorry,so many typos...What eye was trying 2 say is i want this thread 2b fun and not dragged down the religious path,Eye studied with JW 4 many years and eye no what the scriptures tells me about this subject.....but i want 2 have fun...read what people think on this subject in a light hearted way and not turn it in2 a thread 4 R&P....Sorry eye confused u itsnotallover...drink/painkillers/lack of sleep...

davetherave6767 said:

itsnotallover said:

Sorry Dave didn't understand that bit

Sorry,so many typos...What eye was trying 2 say is i want this thread 2b fun and not dragged down the religious path,Eye studied with JW 4 many years and eye no what the scriptures tells me about this subject.....but i want 2 have fun...read what people think on this subject in a light hearted way and not turn it in2 a thread 4 R&P....Sorry eye confused u itsnotallover...drink/painkillers/lack of sleep...

Now that bit sounds like fun

Thanks for clarifying

I don't believe in any of it.

People can't talk to dead people because well, they're dead.

These people prey on the vulnerable and the grieving...pretty dispicable if you ask me.

muirdo said:

I don't believe in any of it.

People can't talk to dead people because well, they're dead.

These people prey on the vulnerable and the grieving...pretty dispicable if you ask me.

What u said about the dead is 100% right....dispicable...sounds about right....like prince said in utcm re tarrot cards.."just tell people what they want 2 hear and there happy".......2me thats what this is all about...let people hear something they like take there ££££££££$$$$$$$$ go buy a new car.

I have a lot of experience in these fields. I'm a natural sceptic but have always been fascinated with psychic phenomenon, hypnosis, paranormal, supernatural, mediumship, ghosts, spirits etc.. I don't believe in any of the above (apart from hypnosis, because it's true) but I can do all of it.

I've given 'psychic' readings to many people, telling one in particular that when he was young his bunk beds were wooden (he shared a room with his brother), their dad sawed the top one off eventually to make them separate, the curtains in his room didn't match with the bedding, once he and his brother got Christmas presents they loved (one blue remote control car and one red remote control car) and I also told him that his brother used to put action men in his one and drive it around. All true.

I told him about both of his nan's houses, details about the kitchen tiles, telling him that one of his nan's bathrooms has been recently renovated completely. Afterwards I asked him how accurate overall I was, he said 100% He was neither a believer or non believer but I could have convinced him with just that one reading, but I didn't. I made sure he knew that I was not actually a psychic.

How do I do it? It's called cold reading, there's much information on it and great great books about it. But it still seems so specific. There's no way I could have known any of that stuff! And that's right. I didn't know any of it but I still told him it. It's hard to explain, but I'm not a psychic. I'm a cold reader.

There is no such thing as a psychic or medium. IF there were such a thing it would be absolutely impossible to debunk it! Because the psychic would be able to tell you exactly what you were thinking, all the time every time. But 'it doesn't work like that' - well you're not a psychic then.

And usually people who believe in spirits and mediums etc.. believe in God, so what's a spirit or ghost still doing around us on Earth when they should be in Heaven or Hell? None of it is real, God included.

I would love a decent reading. I would have to tape it since my auditory learning abilities are non existent. Unless I read something I don't retain it. Whatever you tell me I soon forget for the most part.

I have a strong gut instinct and would actually love to work on developing that. I think we can all strengthen our own intuition. I had a great book on this subject but lost it.

Japha11 said:

None of it is real, God included.

The CERTAINTY with which you make that statement is what fascinates me about atheists.

PurpleJedi said:

Japha11 said:

None of it is real, God included.

The CERTAINTY with which you make that statement is what fascinates me about atheists.

I know what you're getting at but let me explain something. Admittedly it is technically wrong for me to say that I 'know there is no God' (and this should be of interest for other atheists to take note of). Nobody can know either way, I admit that but that does not mean that both possibilities have an equal 50% chance of being right, because they don't.

There is of course more chance of there not being a god because we can't see him, hear him, touch him, smell him or taste him. We can't experience him in any way, plus there is absolutely no evidence of any kind of god existing at all. Not one bit of proof or evidence so it is pretty safe to say and much more probable that there is no god. I would personally say that's almost certain but to be politically correct and technically honest, we can't be certain.

Classic challenge: "Prove that God doesn't exist!" - well nobody can prove that because you cannot prove a negative but regardless, that's not our job! It's your job to prove he is there because you're the one claiming it! (None of this is aimed directly at you by the way lol)

'I worship a big karaoke machine god. A 6ft 3" high machine with unlimited CDG trays to put as many discs in as you want at once and he's been around forever answering prayers.. Prove to me that my god doesn't exist. Prove to me that I'm wrong.' You wouldn't be able to, but does that give any credibility to the claim? No, not at all. I'm sure that you're almost certain this god doesn't exist though, but why? What's the difference between this god and 'Yahweh'?

I don’t believe that people are psychic and can know things about you as some sort of extra special sense.

I don’t believe that a line on your palm that is a certain length or not gives you definitive information about your life.

I don’t believe another (or higher) power chooses certain tarot cards to answer a question you have.

I don’t believe that the position of the planets at the time you were born has anything to do with who you are and who you will become, what personality traits you have or so on.

I do believe some people are very intuitive and can tell by what you’re wearing, what you look like, your mannerisms, what you say and how you say it and so on can guess a lot about you. I believe there are people who are very good at giving advice. I believe that astrology can provide food for thought – if you truly want to reflect on who you are and who you are not and decide who you want to be, and who you don’t want to be. I believe tarot cards can do the same thing – give you a frame of reference for pondering a troubling situation or question you don’t know the answer to yet. At the least, it can bring you clarity about how YOU feel about the question. As someone once said – you may think you don’t care either way on 2 outcomes but once you flip the coin, you generally have a gut feeling on how you want the coin to land.

So in one sense, I don’t believe in any of it. In another sense, I think they can be useful tools to get you thinking about things you may otherwise not, or in a way you maybe haven’t considered.

Japha11 said:

PurpleJedi said:

The CERTAINTY with which you make that statement is what fascinates me about atheists.

I know what you're getting at but let me explain something. Admittedly it is technically wrong for me to say that I 'know there is no God' (and this should be of interest for other atheists to take note of). Nobody can know either way, I admit that but that does not mean that both possibilities have an equal 50% chance of being right, because they don't.

There is of course more chance of there not being a god because we can't see him, hear him, touch him, smell him or taste him. We can't experience him in any way, plus there is absolutely no evidence of any kind of god existing at all. Not one bit of proof or evidence so it is pretty safe to say and much more probable that there is no god. I would personally say that's almost certain but to be politically correct and technically honest, we can't be certain.

Classic challenge: "Prove that God doesn't exist!" - well nobody can prove that because you cannot prove a negative but regardless, that's not our job! It's your job to prove he is there because you're the one claiming it! (None of this is aimed directly at you by the way lol)

'I worship a big karaoke machine god. A 6ft 3" high machine with unlimited CDG trays to put as many discs in as you want at once and he's been around forever answering prayers.. Prove to me that my god doesn't exist. Prove to me that I'm wrong.' You wouldn't be able to, but does that give any credibility to the claim? No, not at all. I'm sure that you're almost certain this god doesn't exist though, but why? What's the difference between this god and 'Yahweh'?

I absolutely agree with most of what you stated.

However, ONE of the reasons why I consider myself an Agnostic as opposed to a straight-out Atheist is that, quite frankly, I don't believe that the human creature is evolved enough to really KNOW the intricacies of this magnamonous "thing" that is the universe.

We believe that we know how the universe "started", how old it is, and how it's going to end. Yet a century ago we were still getting around on horse & buggies for the most part.

So in 100 cycles of the earth around the sun, we - as evolved primates on this speck of rock on the outskirts of one galaxy out of thousands - think that we're smart enough to KNOW with CERTAINTY about ANYTHING having to do with this universe???

Sorry. I am not that certain of my own magnificence.

When speaking of "God" most people automatically rely on the Roman/Hebrew version. Well, I can say that I definetely DON'T believe in a bearded old man on a throne in the clouds above.

But could there be some higher being/race...something which our relatively PRIMITIVE brains still cannot fathom...out there which may have guided life on this rock and set the course for DNA and all that?

I'm a fire alarm systems engineer. I've no qualifications to make absolute statements on the matter.

But I acknowledge and embrace my limitations.

PurpleJedi said:

Japha11 said:

I know what you're getting at but let me explain something. Admittedly it is technically wrong for me to say that I 'know there is no God' (and this should be of interest for other atheists to take note of). Nobody can know either way, I admit that but that does not mean that both possibilities have an equal 50% chance of being right, because they don't.

There is of course more chance of there not being a god because we can't see him, hear him, touch him, smell him or taste him. We can't experience him in any way, plus there is absolutely no evidence of any kind of god existing at all. Not one bit of proof or evidence so it is pretty safe to say and much more probable that there is no god. I would personally say that's almost certain but to be politically correct and technically honest, we can't be certain.

Classic challenge: "Prove that God doesn't exist!" - well nobody can prove that because you cannot prove a negative but regardless, that's not our job! It's your job to prove he is there because you're the one claiming it! (None of this is aimed directly at you by the way lol)

'I worship a big karaoke machine god. A 6ft 3" high machine with unlimited CDG trays to put as many discs in as you want at once and he's been around forever answering prayers.. Prove to me that my god doesn't exist. Prove to me that I'm wrong.' You wouldn't be able to, but does that give any credibility to the claim? No, not at all. I'm sure that you're almost certain this god doesn't exist though, but why? What's the difference between this god and 'Yahweh'?

I absolutely agree with most of what you stated.

However, ONE of the reasons why I consider myself an Agnostic as opposed to a straight-out Atheist is that, quite frankly, I don't believe that the human creature is evolved enough to really KNOW the intricacies of this magnamonous "thing" that is the universe.

We believe that we know how the universe "started", how old it is, and how it's going to end. Yet a century ago we were still getting around on horse & buggies for the most part.

So in 100 cycles of the earth around the sun, we - as evolved primates on this speck of rock on the outskirts of one galaxy out of thousands - think that we're smart enough to KNOW with CERTAINTY about ANYTHING having to do with this universe???

Sorry. I am not that certain of my own magnificence.

When speaking of "God" most people automatically rely on the Roman/Hebrew version. Well, I can say that I definetely DON'T believe in a bearded old man on a throne in the clouds above.

But could there be some higher being/race...something which our relatively PRIMITIVE brains still cannot fathom...out there which may have guided life on this rock and set the course for DNA and all that?

I'm a fire alarm systems engineer. I've no qualifications to make absolute statements on the matter.

But I acknowledge and embrace my limitations.

If you were alive 200 years ago and someone had told you you could contact somebody halfway across the world instantly right now you would look at them like they were crazy. If someone had told you that you would also be able to fly to that place they may have been executed!

If before the first electric lightbulb was made someone was showed picture of Vegas and saw how it was lit up and there were things called 'cars' and current technology etc.. they would have never ever believed it! Look at us now. You say you find it hard to believe that we can be as intelligent as we are... but look at the progress the human race has made in technological advancements in just the last hundred years.. Planes for example!

Look at your computer. Really look at it. What the hell is going on there? Internet? Inter-what!? What the hell is it? It's so hard for me to grasp that this is all real, it's amazing what we can do (and this is just a tiny spec of what we know/can do). We aren't as primitive as you may think.

We are intelligent enough (as an overall race) to know that in order to know/believe anything we need evidence or proof, but things like god, religion and the supernatural? Those things don't need evidence apparently.

Technically all atheists are agnostics whether they know it or not simply because we can't be absolutely sure there's no god, not because we 'doubt' we're right.

PurpleJedi said:

Japha11 said:

I know what you're getting at but let me explain something. Admittedly it is technically wrong for me to say that I 'know there is no God' (and this should be of interest for other atheists to take note of). Nobody can know either way, I admit that but that does not mean that both possibilities have an equal 50% chance of being right, because they don't.

There is of course more chance of there not being a god because we can't see him, hear him, touch him, smell him or taste him. We can't experience him in any way, plus there is absolutely no evidence of any kind of god existing at all. Not one bit of proof or evidence so it is pretty safe to say and much more probable that there is no god. I would personally say that's almost certain but to be politically correct and technically honest, we can't be certain.

Classic challenge: "Prove that God doesn't exist!" - well nobody can prove that because you cannot prove a negative but regardless, that's not our job! It's your job to prove he is there because you're the one claiming it! (None of this is aimed directly at you by the way lol)

'I worship a big karaoke machine god. A 6ft 3" high machine with unlimited CDG trays to put as many discs in as you want at once and he's been around forever answering prayers.. Prove to me that my god doesn't exist. Prove to me that I'm wrong.' You wouldn't be able to, but does that give any credibility to the claim? No, not at all. I'm sure that you're almost certain this god doesn't exist though, but why? What's the difference between this god and 'Yahweh'?

I absolutely agree with most of what you stated.

However, ONE of the reasons why I consider myself an Agnostic as opposed to a straight-out Atheist is that, quite frankly, I don't believe that the human creature is evolved enough to really KNOW the intricacies of this magnamonous "thing" that is the universe.

We believe that we know how the universe "started", how old it is, and how it's going to end. Yet a century ago we were still getting around on horse & buggies for the most part.

So in 100 cycles of the earth around the sun, we - as evolved primates on this speck of rock on the outskirts of one galaxy out of thousands - think that we're smart enough to KNOW with CERTAINTY about ANYTHING having to do with this universe???

Sorry. I am not that certain of my own magnificence.

When speaking of "God" most people automatically rely on the Roman/Hebrew version. Well, I can say that I definetely DON'T believe in a bearded old man on a throne in the clouds above.

But could there be some higher being/race...something which our relatively PRIMITIVE brains still cannot fathom...out there which may have guided life on this rock and set the course for DNA and all that?

I'm a fire alarm systems engineer. I've no qualifications to make absolute statements on the matter.

But I acknowledge and embrace my limitations.

Wow, I love this!!!

I am a strong believer in "one creator" or God.

I am amazed at how many westerners seem to feel the need to throw God out with Jesus and Christianity. It is as if they are one package and completely inseparable. I don't see any one religion has all the answers but they all may have insights.

Anyway there is this "spirit" to us all that does not seem to show up on the microscope. It is that special indefinable something that gives 2 identical twins different personalities despite the fact that they have the same DNA. I think it is very cool to admit "I don't know"; it is what keeps us old folks young - an endless sense of wonder.

So yeah, why would it NOT be possible for some people to be able to know your future? We don't yet know what human beings are capable of.

Deadflow3r said:

PurpleJedi said:

I absolutely agree with most of what you stated.

However, ONE of the reasons why I consider myself an Agnostic as opposed to a straight-out Atheist is that, quite frankly, I don't believe that the human creature is evolved enough to really KNOW the intricacies of this magnamonous "thing" that is the universe.

We believe that we know how the universe "started", how old it is, and how it's going to end. Yet a century ago we were still getting around on horse & buggies for the most part.

So in 100 cycles of the earth around the sun, we - as evolved primates on this speck of rock on the outskirts of one galaxy out of thousands - think that we're smart enough to KNOW with CERTAINTY about ANYTHING having to do with this universe???

Sorry. I am not that certain of my own magnificence.

When speaking of "God" most people automatically rely on the Roman/Hebrew version. Well, I can say that I definetely DON'T believe in a bearded old man on a throne in the clouds above.

But could there be some higher being/race...something which our relatively PRIMITIVE brains still cannot fathom...out there which may have guided life on this rock and set the course for DNA and all that?

I'm a fire alarm systems engineer. I've no qualifications to make absolute statements on the matter.

But I acknowledge and embrace my limitations.

Wow, I love this!!!

I am a strong believer in "one creator" or God.

I am amazed at how many westerners seem to feel the need to throw God out with Jesus and Christianity. It is as if they are one package and completely inseparable. I don't see any one religion has all the answers but they all may have insights.

Anyway there is this "spirit" to us all that does not seem to show up on the microscope. It is that special indefinable something that gives 2 identical twins different personalities despite the fact that they have the same DNA. I think it is very cool to admit "I don't know"; it is what keeps us old folks young - an endless sense of wonder.

So yeah, why would it NOT be possible for some people to be able to know your future? We don't yet know what human beings are capable of.

(I'm not ignoring your reply Japha)

But the SECOND reason for my not being a straight-out Atheist is that I do beleive in "something" out there which we label as "supernatural".

There's something about the human creature which separates us from the lower forms of life on this planet. Call is a Soul, Chi, Spirit, whatever.

When the spirit of a dying man goes to visit a relative as his physical body breathes its last breath...something I've shared on here too many times...that is something beyond Chemistry 101.

JAPHA - no, an Atheist such as yourself is convinced that there is no higher power. An Agnostic does not know either way. You are absolutely certain of your belief, so you are an Atheist. If you doubted it, and are honest & humble enough to admit it, then you'd be Agnostic.

PurpleJedi said:

Deadflow3r said:

Wow, I love this!!!

I am a strong believer in "one creator" or God.

I am amazed at how many westerners seem to feel the need to throw God out with Jesus and Christianity. It is as if they are one package and completely inseparable. I don't see any one religion has all the answers but they all may have insights.

Anyway there is this "spirit" to us all that does not seem to show up on the microscope. It is that special indefinable something that gives 2 identical twins different personalities despite the fact that they have the same DNA. I think it is very cool to admit "I don't know"; it is what keeps us old folks young - an endless sense of wonder.

So yeah, why would it NOT be possible for some people to be able to know your future? We don't yet know what human beings are capable of.

(I'm not ignoring your reply Japha)

But the SECOND reason for my not being a straight-out Atheist is that I do beleive in "something" out there which we label as "supernatural".

There's something about the human creature which separates us from the lower forms of life on this planet. Call is a Soul, Chi, Spirit, whatever.

When the spirit of a dying man goes to visit a relative as his physical body breathes its last breath...something I've shared on here too many times...that is something beyond Chemistry 101.

JAPHA - no, an Atheist such as yourself is convinced that there is no higher power. An Agnostic does not know either way. You are absolutely certain of your belief, so you are an Atheist. If you doubted it, and are honest & humble enough to admit it, then you'd be Agnostic.

I actually said that 'all atheists are agnostics whether they know it or not simply because we can't be absolutely sure there's no god, not because we 'doubt' we're right.' Meaning: we're really agnostics because we cannot prove that there is no god, and because we can't prove it then we can't be absolutely 'atheist'. Technically.

Richard Dawkins has a 'spectrum of theistic probability' which shows #1 being absolutely theistic. Undoubetdly there is a god and #7 is absolutely atheist, there is definitely no god. He's the most famous atheist in the world. He counts himself as #6, because as I've just said it's technically correct. But I still say that 'I'm an atheist' because the word 'atheist' means 'non-belief in god'. I don't believe in god so I call myself an atheist (this is what the word means) but as I've said I can't prove it so therefore I'm technically #6 too.

I've already admitted this! But with all the evidence (or lack of) that there is to show that there isn't a god (or is) then it has convinced me enough to say 'no, I don't believe that there is'. You have to understand that there is far more chance of there not being a god. Surely you understand that?

Deadflow3r said:

PurpleJedi said:

I absolutely agree with most of what you stated.

However, ONE of the reasons why I consider myself an Agnostic as opposed to a straight-out Atheist is that, quite frankly, I don't believe that the human creature is evolved enough to really KNOW the intricacies of this magnamonous "thing" that is the universe.

We believe that we know how the universe "started", how old it is, and how it's going to end. Yet a century ago we were still getting around on horse & buggies for the most part.

So in 100 cycles of the earth around the sun, we - as evolved primates on this speck of rock on the outskirts of one galaxy out of thousands - think that we're smart enough to KNOW with CERTAINTY about ANYTHING having to do with this universe???

Sorry. I am not that certain of my own magnificence.

When speaking of "God" most people automatically rely on the Roman/Hebrew version. Well, I can say that I definetely DON'T believe in a bearded old man on a throne in the clouds above.

But could there be some higher being/race...something which our relatively PRIMITIVE brains still cannot fathom...out there which may have guided life on this rock and set the course for DNA and all that?

I'm a fire alarm systems engineer. I've no qualifications to make absolute statements on the matter.

But I acknowledge and embrace my limitations.

Wow, I love this!!!

I am a strong believer in "one creator" or God.

I am amazed at how many westerners seem to feel the need to throw God out with Jesus and Christianity. It is as if they are one package and completely inseparable. I don't see any one religion has all the answers but they all may have insights.

Anyway there is this "spirit" to us all that does not seem to show up on the microscope. It is that special indefinable something that gives 2 identical twins different personalities despite the fact that they have the same DNA. I think it is very cool to admit "I don't know"; it is what keeps us old folks young - an endless sense of wonder.

So yeah, why would it NOT be possible for some people to be able to know your future? We don't yet know what human beings are capable of.

1. I think that people see 'god' and couple it with religion automatically because that's where it comes from. The 'One god' or 'One creator' is what all these religions say. That's where it comes from. So when you just take bits and pieces to suit your views and beliefs then doesn't that show you that you're making it up as you go along? That's fine, please don't get me wrong but I'm just saying that something is either true, or it isn't. You are 1 in over 6 billion on Earth. You really think you're right over the rest of these others who have different beliefs than yours but think they are right too? Nobody is basing any of this on any real proof, whereas an atheist/agnostic is.

"..but they all may have insights."

'May'? What are we basing any of this on? If this is what people base their beliefs on can you see why it's flawed?

2. A 'spirit' to us? I'm sorry but DNA does not affect our personalities! If that is the case then 2 very similar people who aren't related that believe the same things, have mostly the same point of views, like the same music etc.. must have very similar DNA. Sorry but this isn't true or scientific at all. Also whether they are twins or not, siblings come from the same parents. Shouldn't they also have the same personalities because of their uncanny DNA? Again, I apologise if I'm offending you but this isn't correct in any way whatsoever. Not at all.

3. The Universe is bursting with wonder! Absolutely exploding with amazement already. Nature is an endless sense of wonder, is it not? How incredible is the world? We used to need more explanations and wonder when we knew hardly anything, that's what god and religion gave to people (and also a way to control people). One of science's great virtues is that it is objective and it 'knows what it knows, and knows what it doesn't know'. It freely admits what we don't know yet and thats the whole point. It doesn't claim to know everything, but it wants to. They're always working to find new discoveries. Don't you think that they (and I!!) would love it if psychics were real! What an amazing ability and discovery it would be!

Lastly, the reason why it is impossible for somebody to know the future is because it hasn't happened yet. How can anybody know? Psychics have had plenty of opportunities to prove what they can do. Why can't they tell people what they're thinking, all the time, everytime? Because they aren't psychic! It's quite black and white.

PS. Can I just say I hope I'm not offending anybody. I haven't felt offended or attacked either, and it's refreshing to see that people can voice their views to each other and not be fighting for once (unless you guys are about to kung foo my ass.)

Japha11 said:

PurpleJedi said:

(I'm not ignoring your reply Japha)

But the SECOND reason for my not being a straight-out Atheist is that I do beleive in "something" out there which we label as "supernatural".

There's something about the human creature which separates us from the lower forms of life on this planet. Call is a Soul, Chi, Spirit, whatever.

When the spirit of a dying man goes to visit a relative as his physical body breathes its last breath...something I've shared on here too many times...that is something beyond Chemistry 101.

JAPHA - no, an Atheist such as yourself is convinced that there is no higher power. An Agnostic does not know either way. You are absolutely certain of your belief, so you are an Atheist. If you doubted it, and are honest & humble enough to admit it, then you'd be Agnostic.

I actually said that 'all atheists are agnostics whether they know it or not simply because we can't be absolutely sure there's no god, not because we 'doubt' we're right.' Meaning: we're really agnostics because we cannot prove that there is no god, and because we can't prove it then we can't be absolutely 'atheist'. Technically.

Richard Dawkins has a 'spectrum of theistic probability' which shows #1 being absolutely theistic. Undoubetdly there is a god and #7 is absolutely atheist, there is definitely no god. He's the most famous atheist in the world. He counts himself as #6, because as I've just said it's technically correct. But I still say that 'I'm an atheist' because the word 'atheist' means 'non-belief in god'. I don't believe in god so I call myself an atheist (this is what the word means) but as I've said I can't prove it so therefore I'm technically #6 too.

I've already admitted this! But with all the evidence (or lack of) that there is to show that there isn't a god (or is) then it has convinced me enough to say 'no, I don't believe that there is'. You have to understand that there is far more chance of there not being a god. Surely you understand that?

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's a bit ridiculous.

I know for certain that the moon is not made of cheese. Can I prove it? Of course not. I sit possible that scientists know something about the moon and are not telling us? YES. Would that secret be that it's made of cheese? NO.

But all in all I would bet my LIFE that the moon is not made of cheese, regardless of whether or not I can prove it. I have no doubt.

The whole God question is similar. Do you DOUBT your belief in such a thing? Because if you do...JUST ENOUGH to make you a #6...then you can't make absolute statements regarding the matter.

Not baiting or (I hope)

DysregulatedToxicity said:

LOL

People like throwing their money away.

Exactly. They might as well stamp "SUCKER" on their foreheads.

PurpleJedi said:

Japha11 said:

I actually said that 'all atheists are agnostics whether they know it or not simply because we can't be absolutely sure there's no god, not because we 'doubt' we're right.' Meaning: we're really agnostics because we cannot prove that there is no god, and because we can't prove it then we can't be absolutely 'atheist'. Technically.

Richard Dawkins has a 'spectrum of theistic probability' which shows #1 being absolutely theistic. Undoubetdly there is a god and #7 is absolutely atheist, there is definitely no god. He's the most famous atheist in the world. He counts himself as #6, because as I've just said it's technically correct. But I still say that 'I'm an atheist' because the word 'atheist' means 'non-belief in god'. I don't believe in god so I call myself an atheist (this is what the word means) but as I've said I can't prove it so therefore I'm technically #6 too.

I've already admitted this! But with all the evidence (or lack of) that there is to show that there isn't a god (or is) then it has convinced me enough to say 'no, I don't believe that there is'. You have to understand that there is far more chance of there not being a god. Surely you understand that?

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's a bit ridiculous.

I know for certain that the moon is not made of cheese. Can I prove it? Of course not. I sit possible that scientists know something about the moon and are not telling us? YES. Would that secret be that it's made of cheese? NO.

But all in all I would bet my LIFE that the moon is not made of cheese, regardless of whether or not I can prove it. I have no doubt.

The whole God question is similar. Do you DOUBT your belief in such a thing? Because if you do...JUST ENOUGH to make you a #6...then you can't make absolute statements regarding the matter.

Not baiting or (I hope)

It’s not about doubting. It’s simply saying that there’s no evidence to support it and based on what we know about the universe and its origins, there’s no reason to believe a divine creator existed or exists - but, if new information presented itself, we’d have to take that into account and it could change the current belief.

PurpleJedi said:

Japha11 said:

I actually said that 'all atheists are agnostics whether they know it or not simply because we can't be absolutely sure there's no god, not because we 'doubt' we're right.' Meaning: we're really agnostics because we cannot prove that there is no god, and because we can't prove it then we can't be absolutely 'atheist'. Technically.

Richard Dawkins has a 'spectrum of theistic probability' which shows #1 being absolutely theistic. Undoubetdly there is a god and #7 is absolutely atheist, there is definitely no god. He's the most famous atheist in the world. He counts himself as #6, because as I've just said it's technically correct. But I still say that 'I'm an atheist' because the word 'atheist' means 'non-belief in god'. I don't believe in god so I call myself an atheist (this is what the word means) but as I've said I can't prove it so therefore I'm technically #6 too.

I've already admitted this! But with all the evidence (or lack of) that there is to show that there isn't a god (or is) then it has convinced me enough to say 'no, I don't believe that there is'. You have to understand that there is far more chance of there not being a god. Surely you understand that?

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's a bit ridiculous.

I know for certain that the moon is not made of cheese. Can I prove it? Of course not. I sit possible that scientists know something about the moon and are not telling us? YES. Would that secret be that it's made of cheese? NO.

But all in all I would bet my LIFE that the moon is not made of cheese, regardless of whether or not I can prove it. I have no doubt.

The whole God question is similar. Do you DOUBT your belief in such a thing? Because if you do...JUST ENOUGH to make you a #6...then you can't make absolute statements regarding the matter.

Not baiting or (I hope)

I've already said that the only reason I can't say that I'm certain is because it can't be proven! Other than that (and in my heart of hearts) I am certain! But it's wrong for me to say that because I can't back it up with undeniable, hard proof. It's not because I doubt myself! Can you see the difference? I already said this.

On the cheese thing you're contradicting yourself. Firstly you're saying that you know the moon is not made of cheese even though you can't prove it because you think it's so ludicrous to be true, but thats wrong! Because technically you don't know. But admitting that would just be you being politically correct, not because you're doubting yourself. You're only a #6 on the spectrum of the cheese moon because you haven't proved that it isn't made of cheese. That's the only reason, not because you have some doubt that it is made of cheese. See?

Personally, I am certain there isn't a god. Absolutely certain of it. But I have to admit that it's not proven that there is no god so (because you can't prove a negative) therefore technically I'm not right that there is definitely no god. I'm just speaking in politcally correct terms! Other than that, I know I'm right

I think I've explained it as clear as possible.

The only reason that I have to technically be a #6 is because there is no proof to say there is definitely no god. I'm not a #6 because I doubt myself. Other than that, I'm a flat out atheist.

CarrieMpls said:

PurpleJedi said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's a bit ridiculous.

I know for certain that the moon is not made of cheese. Can I prove it? Of course not. I sit possible that scientists know something about the moon and are not telling us? YES. Would that secret be that it's made of cheese? NO.

But all in all I would bet my LIFE that the moon is not made of cheese, regardless of whether or not I can prove it. I have no doubt.

The whole God question is similar. Do you DOUBT your belief in such a thing? Because if you do...JUST ENOUGH to make you a #6...then you can't make absolute statements regarding the matter.

Not baiting or (I hope)

It’s not about doubting. It’s simply saying that there’s no evidence to support it and based on what we know about the universe and its origins, there’s no reason to believe a divine creator existed or exists - but, if new information presented itself, we’d have to take that into account and it could change the current belief.

:phew: Thank you! It's not doubting, it's just that there isn't definitive evidence that totally denounces god. Therefore, to be politically correct you have to admit the possibility that evidence could surface to prove there is. That's it. I don't doubt that I'm right at all.

It seems if you stay off P&R long enough it will finally come to you!

Someone I knew once had these stones that worked like tarot cards. They were fun to use and I think they were Irish in origin. It was easy to pick out a few stones for a day and then look up what they mean.

Japha11 said:

CarrieMpls said:

It’s not about doubting. It’s simply saying that there’s no evidence to support it and based on what we know about the universe and its origins, there’s no reason to believe a divine creator existed or exists - but, if new information presented itself, we’d have to take that into account and it could change the current belief.

:phew: Thank you! It's not doubting, it's just that there isn't definitive evidence that totally denounces god. Therefore, to be politically correct you have to admit the possibility that evidence could surface to prove there is. That's it. I don't doubt that I'm right at all.

So then if you don't doubt, you are not Agnostic.

It's really plain and simple.

That's all.

A dozen posts later, you validated my intial comment - the CERTAINTY with which you make your decree is that which fascinates me about Atheists.

Peace be with you my brothers and sisters.

PurpleJedi said:

Japha11 said:

:phew: Thank you! It's not doubting, it's just that there isn't definitive evidence that totally denounces god. Therefore, to be politically correct you have to admit the possibility that evidence could surface to prove there is. That's it. I don't doubt that I'm right at all.

So then if you don't doubt, you are not Agnostic.

It's really plain and simple.

That's all.

A dozen posts later, you validated my intial comment - the CERTAINTY with which you make your decree is that which fascinates me about Atheists.

Peace be with you my brothers and sisters.

Ok

Japha11 said:

PurpleJedi said:

So then if you don't doubt, you are not Agnostic.

It's really plain and simple.

That's all.

A dozen posts later, you validated my intial comment - the CERTAINTY with which you make your decree is that which fascinates me about Atheists.

Peace be with you my brothers and sisters.

Ok

PurpleJedi said:

Japha11 said:

Ok

Japha11 said:

PurpleJedi said:

The CERTAINTY with which you make that statement is what fascinates me about atheists.

I know what you're getting at but let me explain something. Admittedly it is technically wrong for me to say that I 'know there is no God' (and this should be of interest for other atheists to take note of). Nobody can know either way, I admit that but that does not mean that both possibilities have an equal 50% chance of being right, because they don't.

There is of course more chance of there not being a god because we can't see him, hear him, touch him, smell him or taste him. We can't experience him in any way, plus there is absolutely no evidence of any kind of god existing at all. Not one bit of proof or evidence so it is pretty safe to say and much more probable that there is no god. I would personally say that's almost certain but to be politically correct and technically honest, we can't be certain.

Classic challenge: "Prove that God doesn't exist!" - well nobody can prove that because you cannot prove a negative but regardless, that's not our job! It's your job to prove he is there because you're the one claiming it! (None of this is aimed directly at you by the way lol)

'I worship a big karaoke machine god. A 6ft 3" high machine with unlimited CDG trays to put as many discs in as you want at once and he's been around forever answering prayers.. Prove to me that my god doesn't exist. Prove to me that I'm wrong.' You wouldn't be able to, but does that give any credibility to the claim? No, not at all. I'm sure that you're almost certain this god doesn't exist though, but why? What's the difference between this god and 'Yahweh'?

Because a karaoke machine god would have been upgraded to an ipod years ago.

There are even Pet PSYCHICS.

Deadflow3r said:

It seems if you stay off P&R long enough it will finally come to you!

Someone I knew once had these stones that worked like tarot cards. They were fun to use and I think they were Irish in origin. It was easy to pick out a few stones for a day and then look up what they mean.

Runes ... ?

I had a book on the topic of reading Tea leaves. That is interesting.

Machaela said:

Deadflow3r said:

It seems if you stay off P&R long enough it will finally come to you!

Someone I knew once had these stones that worked like tarot cards. They were fun to use and I think they were Irish in origin. It was easy to pick out a few stones for a day and then look up what they mean.

Runes ... ?

Yes, they were very interesting and easy for someone new to use.