JustErin said:

What's so funny to me about all this having standards and not dating someone who is broke, only deperate, ugly women expect to pay for themselves talk is that I am seeing someone who is very wealthy.

let me guess...you think you might be finally falling in love this time.

whistle said:

JustErin said:

What's so funny to me about all this having standards and not dating someone who is broke, only deperate, ugly women expect to pay for themselves talk is that I am seeing someone who is very wealthy.

let me guess...you think you might be finally falling in love this time.

Not quite. I'm still very much a commitment phobe.

JustErin said:

What's so funny to me about all this having standards and not dating someone who is broke, only deperate, ugly women expect to pay for themselves talk is that I am seeing someone who is very wealthy.

I had no idea that he was so well off when I first met him and that's how he wanted it. He was tired of dealing with stupid chicks that had that sense of entitlement.

Successful, wealthy, secure men do not want women that feel they need to have a man take care of them. They are attracted to women that expect to take care of themselves. That doesn't mean that they don't then pay for things, etc...it has to do with expectations. It's a turn off.

Ask any wealthy male on here what type of women he would prefer.

And those that do feel that way feel that they can basically buy a woman's love...but they are usually also the type that will make damn sure that that woman (and children if they end up having some) gets NOTHING as payback if it eventually goes sour. After all, he bought that bitch.

Where did I say that I expect a man to take care of me?

There is a difference between a woman expects to be carried throughout life from a woman who expects a man to handle the bill on the first date if he asks her out...

Its an understood rule that most men want independant women who can take care of themselves, they don't have to be rich to want that, that goes without saying.

I never want a man to "buy my love" that is another leap you make on top the the few already mentioned.

I can't wait to read him this thread.

paintedlady said:

JustErin said:

What's so funny to me about all this having standards and not dating someone who is broke, only deperate, ugly women expect to pay for themselves talk is that I am seeing someone who is very wealthy.

I had no idea that he was so well off when I first met him and that's how he wanted it. He was tired of dealing with stupid chicks that had that sense of entitlement.

Successful, wealthy, secure men do not want women that feel they need to have a man take care of them. They are attracted to women that expect to take care of themselves. That doesn't mean that they don't then pay for things, etc...it has to do with expectations. It's a turn off.

Ask any wealthy male on here what type of women he would prefer.

And those that do feel that way feel that they can basically buy a woman's love...but they are usually also the type that will make damn sure that that woman (and children if they end up having some) gets NOTHING as payback if it eventually goes sour. After all, he bought that bitch.

Where did I say that I expect a man to take care of me?

There is a difference between a woman expects to be carried throughout life from a woman who expects a man to handle the bill on the first date if he asks her out...

Its an understood rule that most men want independant women who can take care of themselves, they don't have to be rich to want that, that goes without saying.

I never want a man to "buy my love" that is another leap you make on top the the few already mentioned.

Where did I say that you did?

I didn't quote you or anyone else. Other than addressing the comments made about women being ugly, desperate and having no standards I am talking in general terms here.

What I am saying is that a first impression of expecting the man to pay is a turn off for many men. And first impressions mean everything.

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

Where did I say that I expect a man to take care of me?

There is a difference between a woman expects to be carried throughout life from a woman who expects a man to handle the bill on the first date if he asks her out...

Its an understood rule that most men want independant women who can take care of themselves, they don't have to be rich to want that, that goes without saying.

I never want a man to "buy my love" that is another leap you make on top the the few already mentioned.

Where did I say that you did?

I didn't quote you or anyone else. Other than addressing the comments made about women being ugly, desperate and having no standards I am talking in general terms here.

What I am saying is that a first impression of expecting the man to pay is a turn off for many men. And first impressions mean everything.

I brought up the point of the OP getting a few free dinners...

so the onus is on me for the subject as far as expectations towards who pays for the dinners go.

I answered your posts because you keep saying that a woman who expects a few free meals wants to expect that throughout the relationship.... I don't.

I know people do their own thing, given if a man id turned off by me expecting him to pay on a first date is fine... I'll pay my money easily... then I'll be turned off by him since I'll see him as a cheapskate.

This can go both ways... unless there is an understanding beforehand.

Broke people should date, just be creative xD

[Edited 10/18/11 20:00pm]

To be honest I am in love with the idea of going on a date to the beach and having a little picnic that would be really nice ^_^.

I guess I'm learning to make more male friends and just hang with them.

paintedlady said:

JustErin said:

Where did I say that you did?

I didn't quote you or anyone else. Other than addressing the comments made about women being ugly, desperate and having no standards I am talking in general terms here.

What I am saying is that a first impression of expecting the man to pay is a turn off for many men. And first impressions mean everything.

I brought up the point of the OP getting a few free dinners...

so the onus is on me for the subject as far as expectations towards who pays for the dinners go.

I answered your posts because you keep saying that a woman who expects a few free meals wants to expect that throughout the relationship.... I don't.

I know people do their own thing, given if a man id turned off by me expecting him to pay on a first date is fine... I'll pay my money easily... then I'll be turned off by him since I'll see him as a cheapskate.

This can go both ways... unless there is an understanding beforehand.

You're old fashion and there is nothing wrong with that, no one is mentioning the men who were raised to pay for the lady. There are men who love treating women because it makes them feel good. I completely understand your point, to each his own. There is nothing wrong having that, no one wants a man who can't afford himself, but you are doing your thing. Two people should counter each other you know

[Edited 10/18/11 20:09pm]

Of course there are men who love to treat women out there...I don't think I've ever met a man who didn't.

Difference is these days, a lot of men are sick of women just expecting it.

JustErin said:

Of course there are men who love to treat women out there...I don't think I've ever met a man who didn't.

Difference is these days, a lot of men are sick of women just expecting it.

A twist on what you just said...

IMHO I think men are sick of women expecting lobster/steak dinners, especially if they only have hamburger/pizza money due to their own obligations...

I never had an issue with a man paying on a couple of dates when I first meet a guy, I am not picky on where we go... a cheap diner of fancy joint, its all fine with me. Its depends on his tastes.

I've never had to have a conversation for me to pay anything on a first date, guys just tend to work with what they got... I always did the same too.

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

Where did I say that I expect a man to take care of me?

There is a difference between a woman expects to be carried throughout life from a woman who expects a man to handle the bill on the first date if he asks her out...

Its an understood rule that most men want independant women who can take care of themselves, they don't have to be rich to want that, that goes without saying.

I never want a man to "buy my love" that is another leap you make on top the the few already mentioned.

Where did I say that you did?

I didn't quote you or anyone else. Other than addressing the comments made about women being ugly, desperate and having no standards I am talking in general terms here.

What I am saying is that a first impression of expecting the man to pay is a turn off for many men. And first impressions mean everything.

But what about for the first date?

If a man asks me out on a date (ie. to coffee, lunch, or dinner), then indeed I expect him to pay, I don't even see where that's a question. I also expect him to open the door for me, and walk on the outside of the sidewalk when we are strolling down the street and see me to the door when the date is done. If it makes me antiquated and out of touch with contemporary attitudes towards dating then so be it. But I believe in courtship and I can't roll with a man that has no sense of gentility or etiquette in dating...no matter how old fashioned it appears...and actually I've never had a problem meeting and dating some rather dashing men (from every continent) who would agree.

Even though I'm off the market now, I would still be one of those to argue that chivalry is not dead, nor should it be for those who still believe in the courtship rituals of old.

Ottensen said:

JustErin said:

Where did I say that you did?

I didn't quote you or anyone else. Other than addressing the comments made about women being ugly, desperate and having no standards I am talking in general terms here.

What I am saying is that a first impression of expecting the man to pay is a turn off for many men. And first impressions mean everything.

But what about for the first date?

If a man asks me out on a date (ie. to coffee, lunch, or dinner), then indeed I expect him to pay, I don't even see where that's a question. I also expect him to open the door for me, and walk on the outside of the sidewalk when we are strolling down the street and see me to the door when the date is done. If it makes me antiquated and out of touch with contemporary attitudes towards dating then so be it. But I believe in courtship and I can't roll with a man that has no sense of gentility or etiquette in dating...no matter how old fashioned it appears...and actually I've never had a problem meeting and dating some rather dashing men (from every continent) who would agree.

Even though I'm off the market now, I would still be one of those to argue that chivalry is not dead, nor should it be for those who still believe in the courtship rituals of old.

Last time I checked, women who neither demanded nor appreciated courtship and being treated like they actually mean something to the man were just booty calls and back burner chicks/side pieces. You know....the kind that he doesn't take home to mom or introduces her as a "friend" to his guys but when its just him and her....oh yeah...she special.

So now not coming into something with a sense of entitlement means that one is not wanting or appreciating courtship or that they don't want to be treated like they mean anything to the man.

HotGritz said:

JerseyKRS said:

and the ones I asked out, I wanted to be with them. Whatever that meant. that didn't change the fact I was broke. because I'm broke I'm shunned like a leper? I was still awesome. the money had jack shit to do with that.

But you see....because they expected you to pay, since you asked THEM on the date, doesn't change the fact that they were probably awesome too. In fact, they were more awesome because you asked them on the date....they didn't ask you. If you want to spend time with her badly enough, you're gonna pay be you broke or not. There's dates you can go on that don't require a lot of money but you were just trying to get over on the chick then yeah,,,she's going to shun you. And when you have daughters of your own, trust and believe you are going to want some guy to think your baby girl is worthy paying for a date.

Doesn't he already have three of them?

And none of those chicks were awesome. They were all ugly, dirty, stupid whores.

paintedlady said:

JustErin said:

Of course there are men who love to treat women out there...I don't think I've ever met a man who didn't.

Difference is these days, a lot of men are sick of women just expecting it.

A twist on what you just said...

IMHO I think men are sick of women expecting lobster/steak dinners, especially if they only have hamburger/pizza money due to their own obligations...

I never had an issue with a man paying on a couple of dates when I first meet a guy, I am not picky on where we go... a cheap diner of fancy joint, its all fine with me. Its depends on his tastes.

I've never had to have a conversation for me to pay anything on a first date, guys just tend to work with what they got... I always did the same too.

But

There are also men that only appeal to women once she finds out he can afford the caviar; then he starts looking attractive to her. If I was a wealthy man I would not play "Mr Goodnight" and flash all my luxuries around because then you attract materialistic types who look a bit like Mel Gibsons ex.

So, if a wealthy man decided NOT to spend money on me in large amounts and instead opts for pizza, I would see that as his way of saying "This isn't about feeding your poor ass; I am trying to see if I actually can connect with you". LA is not the only city full of ladies who have their man game down to a science. If he simply wanted to feed a bunch of broke ass bitches there are plenty of shelters that would gladly take his money and unlike giving to the gold-digger, those contributions would be tax deductable.

Sometimes thinking about my past mistakes, his and mine make me want to turn into Lady MacBeth j/k

[Edited 10/19/11 11:57am]

Deadflow3r said:

paintedlady said:

A twist on what you just said...

IMHO I think men are sick of women expecting lobster/steak dinners, especially if they only have hamburger/pizza money due to their own obligations...

I never had an issue with a man paying on a couple of dates when I first meet a guy, I am not picky on where we go... a cheap diner of fancy joint, its all fine with me. Its depends on his tastes.

I've never had to have a conversation for me to pay anything on a first date, guys just tend to work with what they got... I always did the same too.

But

There are also men that only appeal to women once she finds out he can afford the caviar; then he starts looking attractive to her. If I was a wealthy man I would not play "Mr Goodnight" and flash all my luxuries around because then you attract materialistic types who look a bit like Mel Gibsons ex.

So, if a wealthy man decided NOT to spend money on me in large amounts and instead opts for pizza, I would see that as his way of saying "This isn't about feeding your poor ass; I am trying to see if I actually can connect with you". LA is not the only city full of ladies who have their man game down to a science. If he simply wanted to feed a bunch of broke ass bitches there are plenty of shelters that would gladly take his money and unlike giving to the gold-digger, those contributions would be tax deductable.

PunkMistress said:

HotGritz said:

But you see....because they expected you to pay, since you asked THEM on the date, doesn't change the fact that they were probably awesome too. In fact, they were more awesome because you asked them on the date....they didn't ask you. If you want to spend time with her badly enough, you're gonna pay be you broke or not. There's dates you can go on that don't require a lot of money but you were just trying to get over on the chick then yeah,,,she's going to shun you. And when you have daughters of your own, trust and believe you are going to want some guy to think your baby girl is worthy paying for a date.

Doesn't he already have three of them?

And none of those chicks were awesome. They were all ugly, dirty, stupid whores.

Well... a man who pursues ugly, dirty, stupid whores ought not share that info nor complain about it.

JustErin said:

So now not coming into something with a sense of entitlement means that one is not wanting or appreciating courtship or that they don't want to be treated like they mean anything to the man.

You've dropped that "entitlement" word a few times. So in YOUR mind, the desire for courtship and dare I say romance from a man that is pursuing you is a form of entitlement? Wow, I'd hate to hear your thoughts on valentines day or even child support. Oh wait....

HotGritz said:

JustErin said:

So now not coming into something with a sense of entitlement means that one is not wanting or appreciating courtship or that they don't want to be treated like they mean anything to the man.

You've dropped that "entitlement" word a few times. So in YOUR mind, the desire for courtship and dare I say romance from a man that is pursuing you is a form of entitlement? Wow, I'd hate to hear your thoughts on valentines day or even child support. Oh wait....

Um no. That's not what I have said anywhere.

But really, going by the kinds of things you post about often on here, I'm not surprised that you don't get it.

PunkMistress said:

HotGritz said:

But you see....because they expected you to pay, since you asked THEM on the date, doesn't change the fact that they were probably awesome too. In fact, they were more awesome because you asked them on the date....they didn't ask you. If you want to spend time with her badly enough, you're gonna pay be you broke or not. There's dates you can go on that don't require a lot of money but you were just trying to get over on the chick then yeah,,,she's going to shun you. And when you have daughters of your own, trust and believe you are going to want some guy to think your baby girl is worthy paying for a date.

Doesn't he already have three of them?

And none of those chicks were awesome. They were all ugly, dirty, stupid whores.

Face it, Erin.

You married a pathetic, undesirable loser.

Ottensen said:

[... ]

If a man asks me out on a date (ie. to coffee, lunch, or dinner), then indeed I expect him to pay, I don't even see where that's a question. I also expect him to open the door for me, and walk on the outside of the sidewalk when we are strolling down the street and see me to the door when the date is done. If it makes me antiquated and out of touch with contemporary attitudes towards dating then so be it. But I believe in courtship and I can't roll with a man that has no sense of gentility or etiquette in dating...no matter how old fashioned it appears...and actually I've never had a problem meeting and dating some rather dashing men (from every continent) who would agree.

Even though I'm off the market now, I would still be one of those to argue that chivalry is not dead, nor should it be for those who still believe in the courtship rituals of old.

If I ask someone on a date then of course I should pay for the drinks or whatever she'd like to have herself unless she insists on paying herself. I think it's a pretty funny thought especially to ask someone you barely know on a date and then tell her to pick up half of the bill. That would be a bit like asking friends to come over for a dinner and then telling them that they should pay for the food that they've just eaten. I think asking someone on a date is one type of an invitation. You want to get to know the other person better and you should be prepared to handle the costs that result from it as well.

Not that I'd really do dinner dates myself. I don't really see a point in them and find the idea quite outdated. I will gladly pay for the alcohol and the cab ride. I'm always classy like that, you know.

Funny to me that some women care so little for themselves that they offer up their pound of flesh to be bought and sold by some random dude. That's a sheer lack of self respect.

Unless someone insists, I always pay my own way because I was taught to wipe my own ass, tie my own shoes, brush my own teeth, and clean up after myself. It goes along with the package.

And, again, if you wanna talk about old school courtship then you gotta talk about the misogyny that bore that to begin with. People have some convenient memory around here where shit's only offensive if they're beaten over the head with it (so to speak).

Women can't be expected to be much more than ineffectual trophies when their bought and sold. And most men I know don't respect women who can't take care of themselves (even moreso if they simply won't).

But to each their own. Not every woman requires self esteem. Not every woman wants a man who respects her.

JustErin said:

HotGritz said:

You've dropped that "entitlement" word a few times. So in YOUR mind, the desire for courtship and dare I say romance from a man that is pursuing you is a form of entitlement? Wow, I'd hate to hear your thoughts on valentines day or even child support. Oh wait....

Um no. That's not what I have said anywhere.

But really, going by the kinds of things you post about often on here, I'm not surprised that you don't get it.

Don't chicken out with the thumpsup emoticon. Say what's on your mind. What have I posted "often on here" that have your panties in a bunch exactly? What don't I get other than what you will accept in a dating relationship and what I will accept are TOTALLY different.

Spinlight said:

Funny to me that some women care so little for themselves that they offer up their pound of flesh to be bought and sold by some random dude. That's a sheer lack of self respect.

Unless someone insists, I always pay my own way because I was taught to wipe my own ass, tie my own shoes, brush my own teeth, and clean up after myself. It goes along with the package.

And, again, if you wanna talk about old school courtship then you gotta talk about the misogyny that bore that to begin with. People have some convenient memory around here where shit's only offensive if they're beaten over the head with it (so to speak).

Women can't be expected to be much more than ineffectual trophies when their bought and sold. And most men I know don't respect women who can't take care of themselves (even moreso if they simply won't).

But to each their own. Not every woman requires self esteem. Not every woman wants a man who respects her.

Indeed.

No one is saying that they are against their date paying. I've never paid on a first date to be honest, but I just do not go into it expecting him to pay.

Romance and courtship is not about who pays the bill at the end of the night and it's weird to me that some people think it is.

HotGritz said:

JustErin said:

Um no. That's not what I have said anywhere.

But really, going by the kinds of things you post about often on here, I'm not surprised that you don't get it.

Don't chicken out with the thumpsup emoticon. Say what's on your mind. What have I posted "often on here" that have your panties in a bunch exactly? What don't I get other than what you will accept in a dating relationship and what I will accept are TOTALLY different.

No panties in a bunch here and I already said what was on my mind.

When you start comparing what I said to child support (which has nothing to do with what a partner feels they are entitled to, it's 100% about what the child requires by law) you clearly do not get it.

Spinlight said:

Funny to me that some women care so little for themselves that they offer up their pound of flesh to be bought and sold by some random dude. That's a sheer lack of self respect.

Unless someone insists, I always pay my own way because I was taught to wipe my own ass, tie my own shoes, brush my own teeth, and clean up after myself. It goes along with the package.

And, again, if you wanna talk about old school courtship then you gotta talk about the misogyny that bore that to begin with. People have some convenient memory around here where shit's only offensive if they're beaten over the head with it (so to speak).

Women can't be expected to be much more than ineffectual trophies when their bought and sold. And most men I know don't respect women who can't take care of themselves (even moreso if they simply won't).

But to each their own. Not every woman requires self esteem. Not every woman wants a man who respects her.

To your first paragraph....I think you are referring to HOs. Hos being women, or men, who will basically fuck anybody anyplace and anytime. Hence the term "offer up their pound of flesh". Now with respect to being bought and sold by some random dude, I think again you are confused. Being asked out on a date by a potential suitor and expecting that said suitor will pay for the date and plan the date is by no means a case of being bought and sold nor is that dude random. I don't know too many men who approach strange women for dates. Usually, it starts with some sort of introduction and conversation to see if there is the least bit of chemistry and THEN the courtship ensues.

That's great that you were taught to wipe your ass and brush your teeth. I don't think you'd get a date walking around stinky and with piss yellow teeth. Also, if your house is dirty you might find it hard to keep company there.

As for the misogyny that came with courtship. Please provide some examples for those orgers with "convenient memory" or who simply may not be as old as you.

As for women being ineffectual trophies, well there's a concept that requires much more thought and analysis. What is a trophy woman in your opinion? Is it a woman who is beautiful? Young? Accomplished? Should a beautiful, young and accomplished woman not expect to be treated a certain way by a certain man who expresses interest in her? If she expects a certain degree of treatment or expects to be courted, then how does that equate to having low self-esteem and not wanting to be respected by a man?

You and justerin seem to be engaging in double talk. You say women should have self-esteem and carry their own weight but then you say those same esteem having women with money shouldn't expect proper courtship from a man?

So what is it you want of women who are eligible for dating? For them to be hos who don't care how a man treats them? Aah or is it that you want to eliminate dating altogether because its simply too confusing for you?

JustErin said:

HotGritz said:

Don't chicken out with the thumpsup emoticon. Say what's on your mind. What have I posted "often on here" that have your panties in a bunch exactly? What don't I get other than what you will accept in a dating relationship and what I will accept are TOTALLY different.

No panties in a bunch here and I already said what was on my mind.

When you start comparing what I said to child support (which has nothing to do with what a partner feels they are entitled to, it's 100% about what the child requires by law) you clearly do not get it.

No...you don't get it. You have obviously confused a comparison with a statement. What I made was a "statement". I did not compare anything you have said with child support. I would, no really I would, hate to hear your thoughts on valentines day and child support since your views on men paying for first dates or any date thereafter are so....radical.

Also.... you did not address the "post about often on here" part of your original comment. What are you referring to exactly?

[Edited 10/19/11 13:19pm]

dating means he or she who invites the other foots the bill. hanging out means they go 50/50.

personally i split checks on dates and even pick up the tab just as a matter of habit. if it's important to the guy i'm with that he pay my way i don't argue, but i don't exploit his generosity. imo in this regard dating is too much like hooking