for the record, I was BROKE ASS when I was dating. Barely buying food every week kind of broke. I dated a few skirts and they totally acted like that was an issue. I had reasons for being broke, none of which were irresponsible. like, I need to explain that shit to you? please.

good thing the one I really liked could give a shit less.

JerseyKRS said:

JustErin said:

What is lame is expecting him pay. Some guys are sick and tired of this entitlement bullshit some woman play. What better way to weed out this type of woman then to pay for yourself only and see how she reacts.

yo, I have NO PROBLEM paying. I paid all the time. but some girl I barely know just expecting me to pay is one of the more disgusting character traits I experienced when I was dating.

if me not paying crosses me off some broad's list, no worries....that crosses her off MY list just as much.

So if you didn't want to pay then why did you bother asking her out in the first place? I mean if you barely knew her then by asking her out on a date, one can assume you wanted to know her. Are you in the habit of asking women you don't care to know out on dates?

HotGritz said:

Spinlight said:

Why can it not mean he is being fair and non-judgemental? Is this not the kind of acceptance and equal opportunity women crave and deserve? Man/woman connections are not new to me, but you are espousing these very traditional beliefs at the same time as you suggesting it somehow makes you independent to do so.

Those traditional beliefs are the antithesis of independence.

What's fair and non-judgemental about asking a woman (that you are supposedly interested in as a potential partner) on a date then surprising her with the fact that you conveniently have no money? Sounds like false pretense and game playing to me. What's next? Are we to tolerate women who want to play "just the tip"?

Would you want a man to ask you out on a date and then stick you with the bill without any discussion beforehand? There are people that wouldn't even let their friends play them in that manner.

When women generally talk about equal opportunity, we talk about it in terms of education, employment and access to whatever benefits men have gotten over the years sometimes at the woman's expense.

It is very much independent to state, as a woman, what you will and will not tolerate versus just putting up with whatever the man decides is convenient for him at any given time.

But hey, some people are comfortable and used to the broke-ass, hustling and trifling men with alterior motives. I can't even be all that mad at a man who gets women to pay his way each and every time. If you got it like that....more power to you.

Being stuck paying a bill cuz the guy up and left is something different than requiring a guy to pay the bill because he asked you out first.

If you're not interested in the guy, why go on the date anyway? Free food?

HotGritz said:

JustErin said:

What is lame is expecting him pay. Some guys are sick and tired of this entitlement bullshit some woman play. What better way to weed out this type of woman then to pay for yourself only and see how she reacts.

Well then those guys need to date ugly women who are thirsty for any kind of man. Truth is, the kind of woman most men want isn't going to be invited anywhere or asked for her company and then pay the guy.

Damn right, if you ask me out on a date then you are most certainly paying. If I ask you out on a date then I will pay. No way in hell, you are asking me out and having me pay. Essentially I'm paying for a date with myself. Shit, I can stay home and it won't cost me a dime.

just going out constitutes a date? why can't a girl and guy go out and hang out to see if they're cool? dating is weird.

HotGritz said:

JerseyKRS said:

yo, I have NO PROBLEM paying. I paid all the time. but some girl I barely know just expecting me to pay is one of the more disgusting character traits I experienced when I was dating.

if me not paying crosses me off some broad's list, no worries....that crosses her off MY list just as much.

So if you didn't want to pay then why did you bother asking her out in the first place? I mean if you barely knew her then by asking her out on a date, one can assume you wanted to know her. Are you in the habit of asking women you don't care to know out on dates?

um, I wasked out on dates all the time.

JerseyKRS said:

for the record, I was BROKE ASS when I was dating. Barely buying food every week kind of broke. I dated a few skirts and they totally acted like that was an issue. I had reasons for being broke, none of which were irresponsible. like, I need to explain that shit to you? please.

good thing the one I really liked could give a shit less.

Trying to picture you saying "I'm a broke ass, please go out with me."

HotGritz said:

JerseyKRS said:

yo, I have NO PROBLEM paying. I paid all the time. but some girl I barely know just expecting me to pay is one of the more disgusting character traits I experienced when I was dating.

if me not paying crosses me off some broad's list, no worries....that crosses her off MY list just as much.

So if you didn't want to pay then why did you bother asking her out in the first place? I mean if you barely knew her then by asking her out on a date, one can assume you wanted to know her. Are you in the habit of asking women you don't care to know out on dates?

and the ones I asked out, I wanted to be with them. Whatever that meant. that didn't change the fact I was broke. because I'm broke I'm shunned like a leper? I was still awesome. the money had jack shit to do with that.

HotGritz said:

JerseyKRS said:

for the record, I was BROKE ASS when I was dating. Barely buying food every week kind of broke. I dated a few skirts and they totally acted like that was an issue. I had reasons for being broke, none of which were irresponsible. like, I need to explain that shit to you? please.

good thing the one I really liked could give a shit less.

Trying to picture you saying "I'm a broke ass, please go out with me."

but for real, i hated that was the case. like, i just felt like that was my situation. i was still doing well considering. get to know me, don't judge me on that. know what I mean?

Is this the same technique as back in the day, "see if the girl leans over an unlocks your car door after you've let her in", since that's not necessary anymore, it's now "see who picks up the check" test? I'd rather figure all that out beforehand. Both y'all sitting there waiting, how embarassing. Aren't there rules, to avoid such awkward situations as that?

For me, money doesn't have anything to do with going out and getting to know someone.

Who cares who pays? There are more important things to be concerned with.

I like simple and uncomplicated.

slimhustle said:

For me, money doesn't have anything to do with going out and getting to know someone.

Who cares who pays? There are more important things to be concerned with.

I like simple and uncomplicated.

Spinlight said:

HotGritz said:

What's fair and non-judgemental about asking a woman (that you are supposedly interested in as a potential partner) on a date then surprising her with the fact that you conveniently have no money? Sounds like false pretense and game playing to me. What's next? Are we to tolerate women who want to play "just the tip"?

Would you want a man to ask you out on a date and then stick you with the bill without any discussion beforehand? There are people that wouldn't even let their friends play them in that manner.

When women generally talk about equal opportunity, we talk about it in terms of education, employment and access to whatever benefits men have gotten over the years sometimes at the woman's expense.

It is very much independent to state, as a woman, what you will and will not tolerate versus just putting up with whatever the man decides is convenient for him at any given time.

But hey, some people are comfortable and used to the broke-ass, hustling and trifling men with alterior motives. I can't even be all that mad at a man who gets women to pay his way each and every time. If you got it like that....more power to you.

Being stuck paying a bill cuz the guy up and left is something different than requiring a guy to pay the bill because he asked you out first.

If you're not interested in the guy, why go on the date anyway? Free food?

If you are interested in a woman then why not pay? Why ask a woman out if you don't want to pay? Just to see her reaction? Why get offended if, by asking HER out on the date, she expected YOU to pay? Would you go to a restaurant and expect to cook your own food then wash the dishes afterward?

Maybe its just me, but I've had the pleasure of going out on nice dates where not only did the man pay, but he took pleasure in the PLANNING of the date. He took pleasure in finding spots that either Iv'e never been to or finding my favorite spots that I didn't even tell him about. Some guys actually like paying for a date because they know what they are paying for in terms of dining, dancing or whatever else they have planned. Some men actually like treating a woman to nice things which is why some men BOTHER to buy their women presents on occasion or give them little gifts or buy them flowers just because.

Not long ago a male friend of mine bought chocolate for his blind date which I thought was really sweet. He hadn't even seen the dude but wanted to impress him because he knew this guy liked Sees candy. Some people are just like that.

HotGritz said:

JerseyKRS said:

HotGritz said:

So if you didn't want to pay then why did you bother asking her out in the first place? I mean if you barely knew her then by asking her out on a date, one can assume you wanted to know her. Are you in the habit of asking women you don't care to know out on dates?

and the ones I asked out, I wanted to be with them. Whatever that meant. that didn't change the fact I was broke. because I'm broke I'm shunned like a leper? I was still awesome. the money had jack shit to do with that.

But you see....because they expected you to pay, since you asked THEM on the date, doesn't change the fact that they were probably awesome too. In fact, they were more awesome because you asked them on the date....they didn't ask you. If you want to spend time with her badly enough, you're gonna pay be you broke or not. There's dates you can go on that don't require a lot of money but you were just trying to get over on the chick then yeah,,,she's going to shun you. And when you have daughters of your own, trust and believe you are going to want some guy to think your baby girl is worthy paying for a date.

HotGritz said:

Spinlight said:

Being stuck paying a bill cuz the guy up and left is something different than requiring a guy to pay the bill because he asked you out first.

If you're not interested in the guy, why go on the date anyway? Free food?

If you are interested in a woman then why not pay? Why ask a woman out if you don't want to pay? Just to see her reaction? Why get offended if, by asking HER out on the date, she expected YOU to pay? Would you go to a restaurant and expect to cook your own food then wash the dishes afterward?

Maybe its just me, but I've had the pleasure of going out on nice dates where not only did the man pay, but he took pleasure in the PLANNING of the date. He took pleasure in finding spots that either Iv'e never been to or finding my favorite spots that I didn't even tell him about. Some guys actually like paying for a date because they know what they are paying for in terms of dining, dancing or whatever else they have planned. Some men actually like treating a woman to nice things which is why some men BOTHER to buy their women presents on occasion or give them little gifts or buy them flowers just because.

Not long ago a male friend of mine bought chocolate for his blind date which I thought was really sweet. He hadn't even seen the dude but wanted to impress him because he knew this guy liked Sees candy. Some people are just like that.

Some women get offended when a man offers to pay because they feel they are being objectified. Some men think that if they pay for dinner, they are obliged to make a withdrawal from your bootybank.

HotGritz said:

JerseyKRS said:

and the ones I asked out, I wanted to be with them. Whatever that meant. that didn't change the fact I was broke. because I'm broke I'm shunned like a leper? I was still awesome. the money had jack shit to do with that.

But you see....because they expected you to pay, since you asked THEM on the date, doesn't change the fact that they were probably awesome too. In fact, they were more awesome because you asked them on the date....they didn't ask you. If you want to spend time with her badly enough, you're gonna pay be you broke or not. There's dates you can go on that don't require a lot of money but you were just trying to get over on the chick then yeah,,,she's going to shun you. And when you have daughters of your own, trust and believe you are going to want some guy to think your baby girl is worthy paying for a date.

all I want for my girls is to be with someone honest and loving. true, not broke, but the honesty and love is way more important.

JustErin said:

HotGritz said:

Well then those guys need to date ugly women who are thirsty for any kind of man. Truth is, the kind of woman most men want isn't going to be invited anywhere or asked for her company and then pay the guy.

Damn right, if you ask me out on a date then you are most certainly paying. If I ask you out on a date then I will pay. No way in hell, you are asking me out and having me pay. Essentially I'm paying for a date with myself. Shit, I can stay home and it won't cost me a dime.

So women who don't have this pathetic sense of entitlement are ugly and desperate for any type of man? And no one said anything about the woman paying for the man. It was about paying for her own damn self. Secure, confident, and yes...attractive women take care of themselves and are more concerned about the date and getting to know the person than they are about having to pay their own bill.

Women who are dumb enough to be asked on a date by a man and then pay for everything theirselves; his food, her food and the tip when the date itself was initiated by the man are probably desperate . I've heard guys actually say they want to find a desperate woman so she can take them out to dinner. Dinner turns into buying them clothes which turns into paying their utility bill. Now if a woman does this we want to jump all over her but when a man does it then its ok?

I am mentioning paying for the man in addition to paying for you own. Secure, confident and attractive women know better than to pay for their own date when they were ASKED BY THE MAN to go out on the date.

It's one thing to say "lets go dutch" and nobody is disputing that if such an arrangement is made then the woman will most certainly pay for her own but if that is not made clear before the date commences then the man pays by default. Some dating rules are just a given e.g. the woman drives if the man is wasted.

I guess I need to break down my original position since people are making leaps... fuck me!

Etiquette states... when YOU ask someone out you should be able to foot the bill... unless there is an understanding when you first meet someone.

A women asks a guy out, she should pay... a guy asks a woman out he should...

WHY?

Because someone's time is worth something.... its a courtesy to say "thank you for your time"...because someone's time is worth something.

traditionally its usually dinner.... I mentioned "getting a meal" because its assumed the OP will be going out on a "first date" with the guy who asks HER out... she has not made mention of asking a guy out or approaching him.

If she does ask a guy out then the guy has a perfect right to expect her to pay... this is the traditional rule and not tacky.

Now... no where do I mention that a women has to expect to be carried through a relationship expecting a men to pay all expenses... that's an idiotic assumption to make.

Now if a women has a previous understanding with a guy and she knows he's in a tight situation, then her accommodating him is fine, I am no one to judge.

But to consider one tacky because one asumes a man that asks you out should have enough cash on him to pay for the date... because if he takes YOU out its usually to a place of HIS choosing and within his comfort zone. This is done this way so that the woman gets to know a part of WHO HE IS. His haunts, his personality... a way to get to know him in his world.

If she asks HIM out... then its vice versa....

This is initial dating/courtship ritual... old school stuff and variations can and may apply...

BUT!!! If you take me out your your favorite hole in the wall and trun around and look at me when the bill comes Imma see you like a scrub if you don't warn me that you expect me to pay my own shit...or pay for you.

and this only applies to intial first date(s)... a relationship should be 50/50... but a woman gains respect for a man that can treat her to a nice evening faster than a man that can not... generally speaking of course.

Ok? OK!

GAT DAMN!!

Spinlight said:

HotGritz said:

If you are interested in a woman then why not pay? Why ask a woman out if you don't want to pay? Just to see her reaction? Why get offended if, by asking HER out on the date, she expected YOU to pay? Would you go to a restaurant and expect to cook your own food then wash the dishes afterward?

Maybe its just me, but I've had the pleasure of going out on nice dates where not only did the man pay, but he took pleasure in the PLANNING of the date. He took pleasure in finding spots that either Iv'e never been to or finding my favorite spots that I didn't even tell him about. Some guys actually like paying for a date because they know what they are paying for in terms of dining, dancing or whatever else they have planned. Some men actually like treating a woman to nice things which is why some men BOTHER to buy their women presents on occasion or give them little gifts or buy them flowers just because.

Not long ago a male friend of mine bought chocolate for his blind date which I thought was really sweet. He hadn't even seen the dude but wanted to impress him because he knew this guy liked Sees candy. Some people are just like that.

Some women get offended when a man offers to pay because they feel they are being objectified. Some men think that if they pay for dinner, they are obliged to make a withdrawal from your bootybank.

Some women get offended and feel objectified because a man says "hello". Some women think that if a man pays for dinner they are obliged to deposit some booty in HIS bank. Some women can feel entitled to dick because THEY paid for the date. Your point is moot and has nothing to do with why the OP hasn't found a date and has little to do with dating etiquette (between men and women) because it hasn't really changed all that much over time. Even people who complain about it still find themselves adhereing to the same rules about who pays, who calls first, whether or not to have sex and how soon, when to introduce the person to your friends etc.

And back to the bootybank, shit, I know if I'm paying for this date then dick is most definitely on the menu but that's just me. Luckily, dick is ALWAYS under desserts which I can politely decline. Sometimes I feel like a nut....sometimes I don't.

Bottom line, and how this thread derailed terribly, is that each person can decide for themselves how they want to date or how they want to approach or be approached for a date and it makes no sense to argue about it.

The OP is probably dateless for one of two simple reasons:

1) Visibility

2) Approachability

Unless you're living in a city where the man to woman ratio is horribly askew and not in your favor...then finding a date isn't all that hard. Now finding and maintaining a relationship is another thread altogether.

HotGritz said:

Luckily, dick is ALWAYS under desserts which I can politely decline. Sometimes I feel like a nut....sometimes I don't.

paintedlady said:

I guess I need to break down my original position since people are making leaps... fuck me!

Etiquette states... when YOU ask someone out you should be able to foot the bill... unless there is an understanding when you first meet someone.

A women asks a guy out, she should pay... a guy asks a woman out he should...

WHY?

Because someone's time is worth something.... its a courtesy to say "thank you for your time"...because someone's time is worth something.

traditionally its usually dinner.... I mentioned "getting a meal" because its assumed the OP will be going out on a "first date" with the guy who asks HER out... she has not made mention of asking a guy out or approaching him.

If she does ask a guy out then the guy has a perfect right to expect her to pay... this is the traditional rule and not tacky.

Now... no where do I mention that a women has to expect to be carried through a relationship expecting a men to pay all expenses... that's an idiotic assumption to make.

Now if a women has a previous understanding with a guy and she knows he's in a tight situation, then her accommodating him is fine, I am no one to judge.

But to consider one tacky because one asumes a man that asks you out should have enough cash on him to pay for the date... because if he takes YOU out its usually to a place of HIS choosing and within his comfort zone. This is done this way so that the woman gets to know a part of WHO HE IS. His haunts, his personality... a way to get to know him in his world.

If she asks HIM out... then its vice versa....

This is initial dating/courtship ritual... old school stuff and variations can and may apply...

BUT!!! If you take me out your your favorite hole in the wall and trun around and look at me when the bill comes Imma see you like a scrub if you don't warn me that you expect me to pay my own shit...or pay for you.

and this only applies to intial first date(s)... a relationship should be 50/50... but a woman gains respect for a man that can treat her to a nice evening faster than a man that can not... generally speaking of course.

Ok? OK!

GAT DAMN!!

That's what I'm talking about!

Some people just missed the dating etiquette class (required for graduation) and went straight to the fucking etiquette class which turned out to be a punk ass elective.

HotGritz said:

The OP is probably dateless for one of two simple reasons:

1) Visibility

2) Approachability

Unless you're living in a city where the man to woman ratio is horribly askew and not in your favor...then finding a date isn't all that hard. Now finding and maintaining a relationship is another thread altogether.

agreed... and HamsterHuey had the best advice.

As for dates I am a huge fan of the sea shore and picnics; neither is expensive. Being creative will impress me more than just flashing cash, but then I love creativity.

HotGritz said:

paintedlady said:

I guess I need to break down my original position since people are making leaps... fuck me!

Etiquette states... when YOU ask someone out you should be able to foot the bill... unless there is an understanding when you first meet someone.

A women asks a guy out, she should pay... a guy asks a woman out he should...

WHY?

Because someone's time is worth something.... its a courtesy to say "thank you for your time"...because someone's time is worth something.

traditionally its usually dinner.... I mentioned "getting a meal" because its assumed the OP will be going out on a "first date" with the guy who asks HER out... she has not made mention of asking a guy out or approaching him.

If she does ask a guy out then the guy has a perfect right to expect her to pay... this is the traditional rule and not tacky.

Now... no where do I mention that a women has to expect to be carried through a relationship expecting a men to pay all expenses... that's an idiotic assumption to make.

Now if a women has a previous understanding with a guy and she knows he's in a tight situation, then her accommodating him is fine, I am no one to judge.

But to consider one tacky because one asumes a man that asks you out should have enough cash on him to pay for the date... because if he takes YOU out its usually to a place of HIS choosing and within his comfort zone. This is done this way so that the woman gets to know a part of WHO HE IS. His haunts, his personality... a way to get to know him in his world.

If she asks HIM out... then its vice versa....

This is initial dating/courtship ritual... old school stuff and variations can and may apply...

BUT!!! If you take me out your your favorite hole in the wall and trun around and look at me when the bill comes Imma see you like a scrub if you don't warn me that you expect me to pay my own shit...or pay for you.

and this only applies to intial first date(s)... a relationship should be 50/50... but a woman gains respect for a man that can treat her to a nice evening faster than a man that can not... generally speaking of course.

Ok? OK!

GAT DAMN!!

That's what I'm talking about!

Some people just missed the dating etiquette class (required for graduation) and went straight to the fucking etiquette class which turned out to be a punk ass elective.

I minored in the fuck-buddies elective... it ain't too bad

But this bitch knows how to get treated right and I have NO PROBLEMS returning the favor when I take a man to my favorite joints...

and yed DeadFlowers... the beach and pinics are a dream! and if the man is just as dreammy ... even rain can't spoil a good date like that.

I'm laughing so hard right now.

omg, they so did!

see, this is why whores are worth the money.

Its OK to do YOUR thing, but do NOT judge me and think less of me because I carry a standard.

Its for good reason... I don't need a cheapskate in my life, and I need to know he can take care of me... this is why I date the way I do... now if that's different for you then its all good. I do me...

so don't respond to me as if I am wrong... you do you...

Always good to have a backup plan in case you get tired of doin' you and you feel like doin' someone else.

What's so funny to me about all this having standards and not dating someone who is broke, only deperate, ugly women expect to pay for themselves talk is that I am seeing someone who is very wealthy.

I had no idea that he was so well off when I first met him and that's how he wanted it. He was tired of dealing with stupid chicks that had that sense of entitlement.

Successful, wealthy, secure men do not want women that feel they need to have a man take care of them. They are attracted to women that expect to take care of themselves. That doesn't mean that they don't then pay for things, etc...it has to do with expectations. It's a turn off.

Ask any wealthy male on here what type of women he would prefer.

And those that do feel that way feel that they can basically buy a woman's love...but they are usually also the type that will make damn sure that that woman (and children if they end up having some) gets NOTHING as payback if it eventually goes sour. After all, he bought that bitch.