You know, I really don't see why Sherry Shepard was taking offense to Babs using it but not Whoopi? Just because Babs said the word with an "er" at the end and Whoopi used it with an "a" at the end? What the hell difference does it make? The word is mainstream in Hip-Hop music. White people listen to Hip-Hop music all the time. What? They are not supposed to sing along with the lyrics because someone might get offended? Please! I was done with Sherry Shepard earlier this year when she sat up there continuing to blame bisexual black men for the AIDS epidemic in the black community and now she has a double standard for black & whites using the "N" word???

LOL I hear everybody saying it nowadays. Black people, White people, Asian people...it's all over the place.

I'm sick of this discussion. And Sherri sounds dumb as hell.

yikes!

I hate Sherri Shepherd. I used to love her- she seemed so sweet , but the minute she got that job on the View she became a big ass Bitch. She has no respect whatsoever for Barbara and constantly talks over her (and the others/ except Whoopi, she knows not to fuck with Whoopi) and she's overtaken the show. Now it's the damn Sherri Shepherd show. And what's up with her having been a JW but then telling some magazine that she's had "more abortions than I can count" What? JW's don't do that!

As for the N word, as a black woman she has the right to get as offended as she wants to no matter who says it. I stand by her on that. But I don't like her.

These woman don't have enough sense to come out of the damn rain!! Sherri needs to get a clue and realize that no matter how you say it or spell it, the conatation behind it, is STILL the same. Whoppi and her old, "I STILL love Ted Danson In Blackface" ass, also needs to get a clue. She needs to figure out what side of the fence she wants to play on....The Darkside or the Light side, because it is impossible to kiss both sides of that ass, without getting a mouth full of shit...smh.

Their ratings must be slipping

No matter which way it is spelled it comes from the same 'root' of the tree. I don't care if you dress it up with one 'r', two 'r's and 3 'g's, most know where it came from and what it's intended to mean. I don't call my family members or friends that as a form of 'endearment'. Just because it's used in hip-hop/rap music, etc., or because people from other racial/ethnic groups or those within the black community use it. This doesn't make it 'okay' to spew it without someone taking offense, and they have every right to be offended. If that's the case we could send our youth to school to call their teachers and other adults all kinds of offensive, nasty, racist slurs some associate with specific groups. I'm so tired of the lame ass excuses that people use to use racist slurs. If Sherri or Whoopi called Barbara a racist slur associated with her race/religion, they would have been fired and viewers would have called/wrote the station pissed off about it. Whoopi should have known better to use the term and giving it a pass, and Sherri should have been pissed at both of them for using it. Just my 2 cents, no one is obligated to agree with me.

[Edited 10/4/11 10:01am]

One thing it seems can be confidently said is that there's an awful lot of 'baggage' still attached to the term, which stems from its historical associations, but which I guess has also been shaped by more recent debates about its use in popular culture (in hip-hop, movies, etc) and what to make of that. And that latter aspect includes a question of whether using it in its modified '****a' form, amongst friends, etc, is something different from the old way and benign or something to be discouraged because it's also malign. Just as the ladies in the discussion all began with a whole set of complex assumptions and prescriptions based on those debates, so we here discussing it will each likely bring our own assumptions, conclusions, concerns, gripes, etc, to the table, based on the discussions and experiences we've had. None of us comes to the subject 'fresh', so to speak; there's an awful lot has been pre-thought, pre-argued, pre-lived before anyone opens their mouth or takes to their keyboard.

The reason I mention that is not that there's anything wrong with that - it's just the way it is - but because it seems to me that Sherri headed off on a tangent and took up the question of whether there's a difference between the '****a'/'****er' forms, and whether it's ok to use it amongst friends, plus who should and shouldn't use it, etc, in a way which seemed to be bouncing off of the debates over hip-hop and the use of the term in popular culture. That's an interesting issue in itself, but it seemed to me not quite to 'fit' in that discussion, which I would say concerned a different set of questions about how journalists, politicians, etc, should report sensitive issues and terms, and whether it's better to omit the word out of respect or to 'speak the truth and shame the devil', etc. I'd say her point kind of clouded the issue by entangling the two debates, *but* I can see why she slipped so easily into that other debate - because, like I say, we've all thought about it, discussed it, formed opinions on it, learnt what we believe to be the terms of the various debates about it, and so on, and we each call on that pre-formed knowledge on the subject anytime it comes up.

The other reason I mention that is that I wanted to 'stick up a flag' early on in this discussion (knowing that discussions on such topics here at the Org can be long and heated! ) that there are already at least two different debates tangled up already in this story, and if we're not careful we could easily find ourselves talking past each other - e.g. some people saying the word shouldn't be used casually in popular culture or everday speech, and other people replying that journalists should be able to report what has happened, etc. It seems to me that those are different issues with different terms of reference surrounding them.

[Edited 10/4/11 10:40am]

How dumb is Sherri? Barbara only used it in reference to the original quote...

Anyway she thinks the earth is flat so who cares...

And don't let someone tell Sherry Shepard everyone else can use a certain word but she or a group that she belongs to can't because it might offend someone. There will be hell to pay!!!

deebee said:

One thing it seems can be confidently said is that there's an awful lot of 'baggage' still attached to the term, which stems from its historical associations, but which I guess has also been shaped by more recent debates about its use in popular culture (in hip-hop, movies, etc) and what to make of that. And that latter aspect includes a question of whether using it in its modified '****a' form, amongst friends, etc, is something different from the old way and benign or something to be discouraged because it's also malign. Just as the ladies in the discussion all began with a whole set of complex assumptions and prescriptions based on those debates, so we here discussing it will each likely bring our own assumptions, conclusions, concerns, gripes, etc, to the table, based on the discussions and experiences we've had. None of us comes to the subject 'fresh', so to speak; there's an awful lot has been pre-thought, pre-argued, pre-lived before anyone opens their mouth or takes to their keyboard.

The reason I mention that is not that there's anything wrong with that - it's just the way it is - but because it seems to me that Sherri headed off on a tangent and took up the question of whether there's a difference between the '****a'/'****er' forms, and whether it's ok to use it amongst friends, plus who should and shouldn't use it, etc, in a way which seemed to be bouncing off of the debates over hip-hop and the use of the term in popular culture. That's an interesting issue in itself, but it seemed to me not quite to 'fit' in that discussion, which I would say concerned a different set of questions about how journalists, politicians, etc, should report sensitive issues and terms, and whether it's better to omit the word out of respect or to 'speak the truth and shame the devil', etc. I'd say her point kind of clouded the issue by entangling the two debates, *but* I can see why she slipped so easily into that other debate - because, like I say, we've all thought about it, discussed it, formed opinions on it, learnt what we believe to be the terms of the various debates about it, and so on, and we each call on that pre-formed knowledge on the subject anytime it comes up.

The other reason I mention that is that I wanted to 'stick up a flag' early on in this discussion (knowing that discussions on such topics here at the Org can be long and heated! ) that there are already at least two different debates tangled up already in this story, and if we're not careful we could easily find ourselves talking past each other - e.g. some people saying the word shouldn't be used casually in popular culture or everday speech, and other people replying that journalists should be able to report what has happened, etc. It seems to me that those are different issues with different terms of reference surrounding them.

[Edited 10/4/11 10:40am]

Nice post. I think the current generation who never lived around the time of their parents/grandparents further back (pre-civil rights and soon after) will have a different opinion about the term, so it's no surprise that someone from my generation vs being born in the current or not-so-distant generation post-civil rights era, will see the term and its meaning/use differently. No matter which way it is spelled it comes from the root of the same tree. This in my opinion and experience, will never be a topic where on the whole, everyone will agree about its use.

But to use a racial slur because one thinks it's cool or endearing it's a poor excuse and ignorant to say the least. Whether artists in the hip-hop music industry use it, doesn't make it okay, because the majority of them are from the same parents/grandparents or who have relatives that felt the sting of that term and know why it was directed towards them. I despise all uses of it for good reason. I know of and have heard terms considered racial slurs used among people within various, racial/ethnic groups, and many know of those terms as well, but I don't have any desire or need to use it to get through my day. I just think some people outside of the black community, take advantage of the excuse that they "..hear other Blacks use it when talking to their friends as a term of endearment, " as a reason to get a pass to throw the term around, for their own intentions or ignorance. I have the same dislike for Blacks using the term and quite frankly they should know better too. Anyway, this will always be a neverending topic.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:19pm]

I can't see the video, so I don't know in what context all this is being said.

It's a curse word like c**t or b***h, some folks use them in love with those they are close to, some folks would never use them to refer anyone because they see them as an insult, most people have sense enough to know they're not words you can just say to anybody at anytime. I wouldn't walk up to any female and say "what's up, b***h?, just because I heard a female comedian say it, so then it must be okay to use it addressing females.

Stupid bitch.

morningsong said:

I can't see the video, so I don't know in what context all this is being said.

It's a curse word like c**t or b***h, some folks use them in love with those they are close to, some folks would never use them to refer anyone because they see them as an insult, most people have sense enough to know they're not words you can just say to anybody at anytime. I wouldn't walk up to any female and say "what's up, b***h?, just because I heard a female comedian say it, so then it must be okay to use it addressing females.

(Bolded part) I hear ya. Just to add..those who feel the need to use those type terms, kind of gives you an idea of their lack of home training and common sense.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:23pm]

shorttrini said:

These woman don't have enough sense to come out of the damn rain!! Sherri needs to get a clue and realize that no matter how you say it or spell it, the conatation behind it, is STILL the same. Whoppi and her old, "I STILL love Ted Danson In Blackface" ass, also needs to get a clue. She needs to figure out what side of the fence she wants to play on....The Darkside or the Light side, because it is impossible to kiss both sides of that ass, without getting a mouth full of shit...smh.

Absolutely.

morningsong said:

It's a curse word like c**t or b***h, some folks use them in love with those they are close to, some folks would never use them to refer anyone because they see them as an insult, most people have sense enough to know they're not words you can just say to anybody at anytime. I wouldn't walk up to any female and say "what's up, b***h?, just because I heard a female comedian say it, so then it must be okay to use it addressing females.

And there is a big difference between the "a"and "er" forms of the word.

StonedImmaculate said:

morningsong said:

It's a curse word like c**t or b***h, some folks use them in love with those they are close to, some folks would never use them to refer anyone because they see them as an insult, most people have sense enough to know they're not words you can just say to anybody at anytime. I wouldn't walk up to any female and say "what's up, b***h?, just because I heard a female comedian say it, so then it must be okay to use it addressing females.

And there is a big difference between the "a"and "er" forms of the word.

No, there's no difference. It's the same ass thing. You call someone a nigger or a nigga, you say the same thing, you summon the same ghosts, and you further the strife. Keep it alive, forever, so that you never move on or rise above it.

I have the same issue with gay people who say fag and faggot. It's complete bullshit, its not empowering, and unless the word is being said in an antiseptic manner (like how Barbra and Whoopi said "nigger") it is a painful recollection of insidious abuse. There's nothing empowering about being insulted.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:34pm]

I understand why people are bothered by the word - in any form - but to say that there is no difference is silly.

A Klansman would not call a black person a ni**a...he'd call him a ni**er.

I would not call any of my boys "my ni**ers"...I call them my ni**gas.

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

You may not get it and may not like it, but there is a difference.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:42pm]

Spinlight said:

StonedImmaculate said:

And there is a big difference between the "a"and "er" forms of the word.

No, there's no difference. It's the same ass thing. You call someone a nigger or a nigga, you say the same thing, you summon the same ghosts, and you further the strife. Keep it alive, forever, so that you never move on or rise above it.

I have the same issue with gay people who say fag and faggot. It's complete bullshit, its not empowering, and unless the word is being said in an antiseptic manner (like how Barbra and Whoopi said "nigger") it is a painful recollection of insidious abuse. There's nothing empowering about being insulted.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:34pm]

Preach.

I don't think the word should be used by any race, including black people, no matter how you spell or pronounce, it still means the same damn thing. However, I see no problem with actually saying or typing the word when referring to what someone said as long as you make it clear that it is not you that is saying it but merely repeating it for the purpose of telling what someone else said. The word exists and it sounds completely stupid and childish for grown adults to either be saying or tying "N-Word". It reminds me of kids telling on other kids and saying "F-Word" in their description of what the other kids said. It just looks and sounds rediculous when adults start talking like children to describe something that's real.

When reporting hate crimes, or showing movies about slavery or segregation times, it looks totally rediculous when the word is beeped out. How the hell are you supposed to show a true depiction of how horrible those eras were without the word included in the scripts? I don't believe in sugarcoating anything and the word definately has it's place in telling history or reporting hate crimes. Can you imagine the movie "Roots" without the word? It would look totally rediculous. There is such a thing as being so politically correct that it becomes childish. The word was a hateful word in history and should be used in telling history. As for simply using it in everyday talk or in music as something that you call your friends or acquaintances, yeah, beep that shit out. But as for history and present day racism, the word exists and is a reality and people need to wake up and face reality and stop reporting it with the childish "N-Word" which looks rediculous.

Sherri has always been and will always be ignorant. And the word "nigger" (or any subsequent liberties taken with the spelling) has always been and will always be ugly.

Barbara was not malicious in any way by repeating the word. The second it came out of her mouth, she apologized.

Sherri Shepherd gets under my skin.

vainandy said:

I don't think the word should be used by any race, including black people, no matter how you spell or pronounce, it still means the same damn thing. However, I see no problem with actually saying or typing the word when referring to what someone said as long as you make it clear that it is not you that is saying it but merely repeating it for the purpose of telling what someone else said. The word exists and it sounds completely stupid and childish for grown adults to either be saying or tying "N-Word". It reminds me of kids telling on other kids and saying "F-Word" in their description of what the other kids said. It just looks and sounds rediculous when adults start talking like children to describe something that's real.

When reporting hate crimes, or showing movies about slavery or segregation times, it looks totally rediculous when the word is beeped out. How the hell are you supposed to show a true depiction of how horrible those eras were without the word included in the scripts? I don't believe in sugarcoating anything and the word definately has it's place in telling history or reporting hate crimes. Can you imagine the movie "Roots" without the word? It would look totally rediculous. There is such a thing as being so politically correct that it becomes childish. The word was a hateful word in history and should be used in telling history. As for simply using it in everyday talk or in music as something that you call your friends or acquaintances, yeah, beep that shit out. But as for history and present day racism, the word exists and is a reality and people need to wake up and face reality and stop reporting it with the childish "N-Word" which looks rediculous.

Andy....always good to read your input on these matters. I agree with parts of your second paragraph vain. When it's depicted in movies or documentaries highlighting a character or characters with racist attitudes, I can understand its use because it is showing the 'sting' of the word and how it can hurt, and letting people know those type of racist beliefs about others exists. People need to see what the term can do to a person's spirit. Even the movie "American History X" depicted racism in its true form and how the racist terms were used to fit how the makers of the movie, wanted its viewers to understand what feelings of hate towards another can do. The use of the term just for the kicks of it, for me is just not acceptable, and it hurts me to see so many youth of many racial groups, including those from my own racial/ethnic group(s), using it, without thinking how it comes across to someone passing by who it may offend. A little common sense, home training and respect never hurt anybody.

'on' edit

[Edited 10/4/11 17:11pm]

StonedImmaculate said:

I understand why people are bothered by the word - in any form - but to say that there is no difference is silly.

A Klansman would not call a black person a ni**a...he'd call him a ni**er.

I would not call any of my boys "my ni**ers"...I call them my ni**gas.

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

You may not get it and may not like it, but there is a difference.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:42pm]

Exactly! And folks can get as up in arms as they want to over its use cuz it's a free country. But you can't govern how other people, especially grown folks, choose to express themselves. Don't like the word in any form, cool, don't use it.

And I'm not the least bit offended by Babs using it in this context or white kids screaming it at a Lil Wayne concert because the intent is completely different than a klansman or redneck using it. Sherri's an idiot. Next!

[Edited 10/4/11 14:00pm]

StonedImmaculate said:

I understand why people are bothered by the word - in any form - but to say that there is no difference is silly.

A Klansman would not call a black person a ni**a...he'd call him a ni**er.

I would not call any of my boys "my ni**ers"...I call them my ni**gas.

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

You may not get it and may not like it, but there is a difference.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:42pm]

I perfectly well understand and get it. I didn't mention the words fag and faggot on a lark - I experience the same stuff and I'm coming from the same place a black person would if they said that the words were the same.

As others here have stated more eloquently than I, roots of the same tree. You may rationalize it and you may excuse it, but your agenda doesn't suit the rest of the world and if you don't err on the side of respectful then that is your burden to bear - not mine or anyone else's.

Frankly, it saddens me that people still rely on hate speech to describe anything. Calling someone a nigger or nigga is not a term of endearment, its the spectre of African American slavery, and it is becoming more and more part of our culture because it gives people a reason to react.

This discussion had nothing to do with Sherri Shepherd's feelings and all to do with a racist religious zealot who is dangerously close to our presidency. Her sharing her showboasting feelings about supposedly being offended that Babs would say it is just disgusting and bigoted in and of itself. It is the very definition of prejudice. People in tinted glass houses need not throw rocks with "nigger" written on them. It don't take Stevie Wonder to see that she was hefting her gelatinous feelings onto the table so that she could proclaim that "No man shall use such a word" blah blah blah. Ignorance.

StonedImmaculate said:

I understand why people are bothered by the word - in any form - but to say that there is no difference is silly.

A Klansman would not call a black person a ni**a...he'd call him a ni**er.

I would not call any of my boys "my ni**ers"...I call them my ni**gas.

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

You may not get it and may not like it, but there is a difference.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:42pm]

Sorry, but I think that the "er," "a" semantics is bullshit. It's the same word. With black vernacular, the -er ending of words is not pronounced. In my opinion, that's like saying words like "playa" is not the same as "player." It's the same thing.

Sherri is an idiot. I would advise her to look up the meaning of context. It's a shame that this woman gets paid to voice her opinion 5 days a week on different topics, and she's ignorant as fuck.

Spinlight said:

StonedImmaculate said:

I understand why people are bothered by the word - in any form - but to say that there is no difference is silly.

A Klansman would not call a black person a ni**a...he'd call him a ni**er.

I would not call any of my boys "my ni**ers"...I call them my ni**gas.

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

You may not get it and may not like it, but there is a difference.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:42pm]

I perfectly well understand and get it. I didn't mention the words fag and faggot on a lark - I experience the same stuff and I'm coming from the same place a black person would if they said that the words were the same.

As others here have stated more eloquently than I, roots of the same tree. You may rationalize it and you may excuse it, but your agenda doesn't suit the rest of the world and if you don't err on the side of respectful then that is your burden to bear - not mine or anyone else's.

Frankly, it saddens me that people still rely on hate speech to describe anything. Calling someone a nigger or nigga is not a term of endearment, its the spectre of African American slavery, and it is becoming more and more part of our culture because it gives people a reason to react.

This discussion had nothing to do with Sherri Shepherd's feelings and all to do with a racist religious zealot who is dangerously close to our presidency. Her sharing her showboasting feelings about supposedly being offended that Babs would say it is just disgusting and bigoted in and of itself. It is the very definition of prejudice. People in tinted glass houses need not throw rocks with "nigger" written on them. It don't take Stevie Wonder to see that she was hefting her gelatinous feelings onto the table so that she could proclaim that "No man shall use such a word" blah blah blah. Ignorance.

Right or wrong, it is largely used in the black community. Is calling each other fag or faggot widely used in the gay community as a term of endearment? If it is at all, I'm sure it's not to the extent that black folks use ni**a.

And there ia a time and a place for everything. Just because someone is comfortable using that word in the presence of his/her loved ones (who are also comfortable using it) doesn't make them "ignorant" or backwards. We know where the word comes from and know how offensive it is to some. And believe it or not, some of us have the "home training" to respect others and know when and when not to drop that or any other curse word.

As for Sherri Shepherd...yeah, that was silly. She took the focus completely off of Perry, but I don't see her feelings as being the definition of prejudice. Her feelings are common among folks who are comfortable using ni**a...and we have every reason to not be comfortable with anyone calling us a ni**er.

I may seem ignorant to you, but trust me...I'm not.

Layzie said:

Sorry, but I think that the "er," "a" semantics is bullshit. It's the same word. With black vernacular, the -er ending of words is not pronounced. In my opinion, that's like saying words like "playa" is not the same as "player." It's the same thing.

I never say "playa"...I prefer pimp.

But I feel you on the vernacular. How's this..."FUCK YOU!"

You can say that to your friend when they crack a joke on you...FUCK YOU! Said with a smile and a punch to the arm, it's acceptable.

Someone you don't know bumps into you. You look at each other and he yells FUCK YOU! You wouldn't take it the same as that FUCK YOU from your friend.

I know that still won't fly, but do you catch my drift?

What if a ex klansman said, " What up my ni**a ?" to his newly black friend while reciting a hip-hop lyric, will it still be inappropriate?

formallypickles said:

What if a ex klansman said, " What up my ni**a ?" to his newly black friend while reciting a hip-hop lyric, will it still be inappropriate?

Just stop....

formallypickles said:

What if a ex klansman said, " What up my ni**a ?" to his newly black friend while reciting a hip-hop lyric, will it still be inappropriate?

The variables involved make that impossible but if you are asking if it's okay for a white friend to call his black friend "my ni**a", I'd say it depends on the depth of their friendship.

Pretty much every brotha I know has at least one non black who has a pass. Very few whites, but some.