shorttrini said:

formallypickles said:

What if a ex klansman said, " What up my ni**a ?" to his newly black friend while reciting a hip-hop lyric, will it still be inappropriate?

Just stop....

Why? I know I'm going there.

Layzie said:

StonedImmaculate said:

I understand why people are bothered by the word - in any form - but to say that there is no difference is silly.

A Klansman would not call a black person a ni**a...he'd call him a ni**er.

I would not call any of my boys "my ni**ers"...I call them my ni**gas.

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

You may not get it and may not like it, but there is a difference.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:42pm]

Sorry, but I think that the "er," "a" semantics is bullshit. It's the same word. With black vernacular, the -er ending of words is not pronounced. In my opinion, that's like saying words like "playa" is not the same as "player." It's the same thing.

Sherri is an idiot. I would advise her to look up the meaning of context. It's a shame that this woman gets paid to voice her opinion 5 days a week on different topics, and she's ignorant as fuck.

Yeah i can't believe Sherri played herself like that. And like someone else said it seems

she tried to pick the appropriate fight because if she had tried that shit with Whoopi

that would have been straight verbal penetration to the ass. Barbara didn't mean any harm.

She was just repeating the word to get her point across and admitted as much that she

didn't even feel right saying it.

Honestly, I'm so sick of hearing about racism and hate words. I'm so burnt out.

I really don't care about it anymore( even though it effects me) I really don't see the importance in talking about these things. Life is to short.

I really don't give a fuck anymore.

StonedImmaculate said:

formallypickles said:

What if a ex klansman said, " What up my ni**a ?" to his newly black friend while reciting a hip-hop lyric, will it still be inappropriate?

The variables involved make that impossible but if you are asking if it's okay for a white friend to call his black friend "my ni**a", I'd say it depends on the depth of their friendship.

Pretty much every brotha I know has at least one non black who has a pass. Very few whites, but some.

It's not impossible. There is some article on the net of an ex-klansman who married a black woman. (Side-eyeing the hell out that marriage)

But it's not impossible.

Why is Sherri Sheppard wearing one of Tina Turner's old Ike & Tina Review wigs?

johnart said:

Why is Sherri Sheppard wearing one of Tina Turner's old Ike & Tina Review wigs?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed. That wig was straight outta the movie "What's Love Got To Do With It?"

[Edited 10/4/11 16:02pm]

If the black community continues to use that word loosely, then others will follow suit, and think that it's ok. This is what happens when contemporary black Americans are not taught the evil connotations, and history behind that word.

angel345 said:

If the black community continues to use that word loosely, then others will follow suit, and think that it's ok. This is what happens when contemporary black Americans are not taught the evil connotations, and history behind that word.

No disrespect to you angel345, but I'm not buying that, because I hear and have heard other people within non-black groups, calling each other certain terms, just for the sake of it, that I know are considered, offensive racial slurs. If I said the same to them, regardless if I hear them joking with each other about it, doesn't mean I should get a pass and get away with saying it to them; nor because some in those groups use it daily, gives me a reason or pass to do it too;especially when I'm in full knowledge that 'specific' terms are offensive to others within or outside of my racial/ethnic group.

I used to hear some of my White co-workers, when I worked in the south calling each other a term, which in my opinion, is offensive/racist. Now if "I" had said what they said to one another, they would feel it differently coming from someone outside their racial/ethnic group.

It's also a lame excuse to put the blame on Blacks for the use of the term, as a reason, excuse or justification for someone else outside their group to have a pass to use it. As far as 'some' Blacks (not all within the Black community as a whole as I know the entire Black community does not use that term within their everyday language(s) or conversation(s) ) who choose to use it among themselves today, well guess what, it's 2011, and there's no reasonable excuse that can convince me that there is a 'need' to use it, as a term of endearment, just for the sake of it, amongst those one chooses to converse with, because at the end of the day, if their child called them that term with or without the 'a' at the end, it would 'sting' them hard. The dictionary is not short of words/terms to use, that one finds they have to rely on that particular term to complete a phrase, sentence or conversation or use it as a 'term of endearment'. Simply put..no excuses.

StonedImmaculate said:

Spinlight said:

I perfectly well understand and get it. I didn't mention the words fag and faggot on a lark - I experience the same stuff and I'm coming from the same place a black person would if they said that the words were the same.

As others here have stated more eloquently than I, roots of the same tree. You may rationalize it and you may excuse it, but your agenda doesn't suit the rest of the world and if you don't err on the side of respectful then that is your burden to bear - not mine or anyone else's.

Frankly, it saddens me that people still rely on hate speech to describe anything. Calling someone a nigger or nigga is not a term of endearment, its the spectre of African American slavery, and it is becoming more and more part of our culture because it gives people a reason to react.

This discussion had nothing to do with Sherri Shepherd's feelings and all to do with a racist religious zealot who is dangerously close to our presidency. Her sharing her showboasting feelings about supposedly being offended that Babs would say it is just disgusting and bigoted in and of itself. It is the very definition of prejudice. People in tinted glass houses need not throw rocks with "nigger" written on them. It don't take Stevie Wonder to see that she was hefting her gelatinous feelings onto the table so that she could proclaim that "No man shall use such a word" blah blah blah. Ignorance.

Right or wrong, it is largely used in the black community. Is calling each other fag or faggot widely used in the gay community as a term of endearment? If it is at all, I'm sure it's not to the extent that black folks use ni**a.

And there ia a time and a place for everything. Just because someone is comfortable using that word in the presence of his/her loved ones (who are also comfortable using it) doesn't make them "ignorant" or backwards. We know where the word comes from and know how offensive it is to some. And believe it or not, some of us have the "home training" to respect others and know when and when not to drop that or any other curse word.

As for Sherri Shepherd...yeah, that was silly. She took the focus completely off of Perry, but I don't see her feelings as being the definition of prejudice. Her feelings are common among folks who are comfortable using ni**a...and we have every reason to not be comfortable with anyone calling us a ni**er.

I may seem ignorant to you, but trust me...I'm not.

I'm gay but I've never really had any gay friends, therefore, I never really been a part of the community. but, from what little experienece I have had over the years being in the company of a group of gay men, I don't ever recall hearing them referring to each other as "fag" or "faggot". I'm sure it happens but it has not been my experience. But, I'm around straight black men a lot and the word "nigga" is commonly used fast and loose. It is used so much that whether you pronounce it was an "a" or "er" at the end, it simply doesn't bother me. I've heard white people use it when reciting lyrics to a rap song and it didn't bother me. I've heard them using in anger and it didnt bother me. I guess I've just become really desensitized to the word over the years.

When will this show go off the air already??????

2elijah said:

angel345 said:

If the black community continues to use that word loosely, then others will follow suit, and think that it's ok. This is what happens when contemporary black Americans are not taught the evil connotations, and history behind that word.

No disrespect to you angel345, but I'm not buying that, because I hear and have heard other people within non-black groups, calling each other certain terms, just for the sake of it, that I know are considered, offensive racial slurs. If I said the same to them, regardless if I hear them joking with each other about it, doesn't mean I should get a pass and get away with saying it to them; nor because some in those groups use it daily, gives me a reason or pass to do it too;especially when I'm in full knowledge that 'specific' terms are offensive to others within or outside of my racial/ethnic group.

I used to hear some of my White co-workers, when I worked in the south calling each other a term, which in my opinion, is offensive/racist. Now if "I" had said what they said to one another, they would feel it differently coming from someone outside their racial/ethnic group.

It's also a lame excuse to put the blame on Blacks for the use of the term, as a reason, excuse or justification for someone else outside their group to have a pass to use it. As far as 'some' Blacks (not all within the Black community as a whole as I know the entire Black community does not use that term within their everyday language(s) or conversation(s) ) who choose to use it among themselves today, well guess what, it's 2011, and there's no reasonable excuse that can convince me that there is a 'need' to use it, as a term of endearment, just for the sake of it, amongst those one chooses to converse with, because at the end of the day, if their child called them that term with or without the 'a' at the end, it would 'sting' them hard. The dictionary is not short of words/terms to use, that one finds they have to rely on that particular term to complete a phrase, sentence or conversation or use it as a 'term of endearment'. Simply put..no excuses.

So you're saying that blacks who use it so loosely bears no domino effect on others? Not from what I am witnessing. The reason that word is used so loosely is because who is speaking up? Who is educating today's black youth on the history behind that word. Remember Dr. Laura? She stated that the reason she used that word on the air was because today's blacks are using it as a term of endearment, so that gives her a pass. So she thought. Or she may be a racist, and this gives her the opportunity to let it slip out, without no complaints. I tell my daughter and nephew so many times how I dislike the word and its history. They don't use it around me. I do not condone the usage of the word, and never had.

kpowers said:

When will this show go off the air already??????

Amen. I hate that show and I wish they would cancel it. One big stupid hen party.

StonedImmaculate said:

Spinlight said:

I perfectly well understand and get it. I didn't mention the words fag and faggot on a lark - I experience the same stuff and I'm coming from the same place a black person would if they said that the words were the same.

As others here have stated more eloquently than I, roots of the same tree. You may rationalize it and you may excuse it, but your agenda doesn't suit the rest of the world and if you don't err on the side of respectful then that is your burden to bear - not mine or anyone else's.

Frankly, it saddens me that people still rely on hate speech to describe anything. Calling someone a nigger or nigga is not a term of endearment, its the spectre of African American slavery, and it is becoming more and more part of our culture because it gives people a reason to react.

This discussion had nothing to do with Sherri Shepherd's feelings and all to do with a racist religious zealot who is dangerously close to our presidency. Her sharing her showboasting feelings about supposedly being offended that Babs would say it is just disgusting and bigoted in and of itself. It is the very definition of prejudice. People in tinted glass houses need not throw rocks with "nigger" written on them. It don't take Stevie Wonder to see that she was hefting her gelatinous feelings onto the table so that she could proclaim that "No man shall use such a word" blah blah blah. Ignorance.

Right or wrong, it is largely used in the black community. Is calling each other fag or faggot widely used in the gay community as a term of endearment? If it is at all, I'm sure it's not to the extent that black folks use ni**a.

And there ia a time and a place for everything. Just because someone is comfortable using that word in the presence of his/her loved ones (who are also comfortable using it) doesn't make them "ignorant" or backwards. We know where the word comes from and know how offensive it is to some. And believe it or not, some of us have the "home training" to respect others and know when and when not to drop that or any other curse word.

As for Sherri Shepherd...yeah, that was silly. She took the focus completely off of Perry, but I don't see her feelings as being the definition of prejudice. Her feelings are common among folks who are comfortable using ni**a...and we have every reason to not be comfortable with anyone calling us a ni**er.

I may seem ignorant to you, but trust me...I'm not.

I don't think you're ignorant, man, I respect your position. The war on civil rights is not over for any minority and I understand your opinion.

I live in San Francisco and gays out here say the F word variants on the regular. It's not surprising out here to hear someone say, "Fagga please" or something similar. Or "don't be such a fag", etc. Not with the prevalence African Americans say their term with, but still.

I hope Sherri gets some real education about life. It seems this is NOT the only topic she is confused about... She -is- the woman who said she was more concerned about feeding her kids than whether or not the Earth was flat.

2elijah said:

deebee said:

One thing it seems can be confidently said is that there's an awful lot of 'baggage' still attached to the term, which stems from its historical associations, but which I guess has also been shaped by more recent debates about its use in popular culture (in hip-hop, movies, etc) and what to make of that. And that latter aspect includes a question of whether using it in its modified '****a' form, amongst friends, etc, is something different from the old way and benign or something to be discouraged because it's also malign. Just as the ladies in the discussion all began with a whole set of complex assumptions and prescriptions based on those debates, so we here discussing it will each likely bring our own assumptions, conclusions, concerns, gripes, etc, to the table, based on the discussions and experiences we've had. None of us comes to the subject 'fresh', so to speak; there's an awful lot has been pre-thought, pre-argued, pre-lived before anyone opens their mouth or takes to their keyboard.

The reason I mention that is not that there's anything wrong with that - it's just the way it is - but because it seems to me that Sherri headed off on a tangent and took up the question of whether there's a difference between the '****a'/'****er' forms, and whether it's ok to use it amongst friends, plus who should and shouldn't use it, etc, in a way which seemed to be bouncing off of the debates over hip-hop and the use of the term in popular culture. That's an interesting issue in itself, but it seemed to me not quite to 'fit' in that discussion, which I would say concerned a different set of questions about how journalists, politicians, etc, should report sensitive issues and terms, and whether it's better to omit the word out of respect or to 'speak the truth and shame the devil', etc. I'd say her point kind of clouded the issue by entangling the two debates, *but* I can see why she slipped so easily into that other debate - because, like I say, we've all thought about it, discussed it, formed opinions on it, learnt what we believe to be the terms of the various debates about it, and so on, and we each call on that pre-formed knowledge on the subject anytime it comes up.

The other reason I mention that is that I wanted to 'stick up a flag' early on in this discussion (knowing that discussions on such topics here at the Org can be long and heated! ) that there are already at least two different debates tangled up already in this story, and if we're not careful we could easily find ourselves talking past each other - e.g. some people saying the word shouldn't be used casually in popular culture or everday speech, and other people replying that journalists should be able to report what has happened, etc. It seems to me that those are different issues with different terms of reference surrounding them.

[Edited 10/4/11 10:40am]

Nice post. I think the current generation who never lived around the time of their parents/grandparents further back (pre-civil rights and soon after) will have a different opinion about the term, so it's no surprise that someone from my generation vs being born in the current or not-so-distant generation post-civil rights era, will see the term and its meaning/use differently. No matter which way it is spelled it comes from the root of the same tree. This in my opinion and experience, will never be a topic where on the whole, everyone will agree about its use.

But to use a racial slur because one thinks it's cool or endearing it's a poor excuse and ignorant to say the least. Whether artists in the hip-hop music industry use it, doesn't make it okay, because the majority of them are from the same parents/grandparents or who have relatives that felt the sting of that term and know why it was directed towards them. I despise all uses of it for good reason. I know of and have heard terms considered racial slurs used among people within various, racial/ethnic groups, and many know of those terms as well, but I don't have any desire or need to use it to get through my day. I just think some people outside of the black community, take advantage of the excuse that they "..hear other Blacks use it when talking to their friends as a term of endearment, " as a reason to get a pass to throw the term around, for their own intentions or ignorance. I have the same dislike for Blacks using the term and quite frankly they should know better too. Anyway, this will always be a neverending topic.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:19pm]

Yes, I can well imagine that to people that lived through the civil rights movement, or grew up around people who had, must be incredulous and disappointed that the word's found such currency amongst some younger people, and in popular culture more generally. And I think it's very true that people do use that as 'cover' to serve their own purposes. On Fox News, it seems to be almost a stock response whenever some celebrity or politician is in the news for using a questionable phrase that they throw up the call of 'double-standards' and claim that 'hip hop did it first'! I remember a few clips in which reporters tried to do precisely that from around the time of the Don Imus controversy.

Tbh, I have a suspicion this clip will get a lot of coverage amongst those drawn to making the 'double-standards' argument to serve just those ends. Sherri's response is ideal fodder for that since she makes the "she can say it, but you can't" point so starkly, and also because the fact that she seems to be confusing the two arguments means that that point comes off as being out of place and a bit unreasonable.

is it offensive to call a white person the 'n' word? cause i have heard that, and it sounds stupid, its like a fashion statement, ppl throwing these words around thinking they sound cool, but it is just dumb

StonedImmaculate said:

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

That was a bizarre bit of the discussion, I thought. In the clip I saw, they muted it when Whoopi and Barbara said the word, so I couldn't hear if the former really did say 'N***ahead', as Sherri then claimed. To my mind, it would seem very strange and possibly even a bit trivialising to do that, and certainly nothing to make a virtue of. It was the bit where Shepherd seemed most confused and out of her depth, awkwardly trying to shoehorn the discussion at hand into the terms of reference of a different discussion that she had a view about. At that moment, I did rather wish there was someone with a crook-handle walking stick within yanking distance!

[Edited 10/5/11 2:59am]

deebee said:

StonedImmaculate said:

The sign at Rick Perry's camp didn't say "Ni**ahead Ranch"...it said "Ni**erhead Ranch."

That was a bizarre bit of the discussion, I thought. In the clip I saw, they muted it when Whoopi and Barbara said the word, so I couldn't hear if the former really did say 'N***ahead', as Sherri then claimed. To my mind, it would seem very strange and possibly even a bit trivialising to do that, and certainly nothing to make a virtue of. It was the bit where Shepherd seemed most confused and out of her depth, awkwardly trying to shoehorn the discussion at hand into the terms of reference of a different discussion that she had a view about. At that moment, I did rather wish there was someone with a crook-handle walking stick within yanking distance!

[Edited 10/5/11 2:59am]

Where's Sandman's ass when you need him???

The sooner black people learn to distinguish between reacting to another's free speech and reacting to the violation of their civil rights, the quicker this foolilshness will end.

Fight the latter til your last breath, but acting like someone saying that word (outside of contexts of one's civil rights being affected) will somehow wound you is falling prey to a racist's wishes. It almost seems to be a step backward, sometimes.

ThreadBare said:

The sooner black people learn to distinguish between reacting to another's free speech and reacting to the violation of their civil rights, the quicker this foolilshness will end.

Fight the latter til your last breath, but acting like someone saying that word (outside of contexts of one's civil rights being affected) will somehow wound you is falling prey to a racist's wishes. It almost seems to be a step backward, sometimes.

I will respond to that by saying this. Because of the concept of, "Free Speech", we all have the right to scream, "FIRE"!! in a movie theater. However, due to the consequences of one doing that, very few do it. My point is this, just because you have the right to say something, does not mean that you should. Words such as this one, can do just as much damage to ones mind and soul, as a fire does to ones body.

shorttrini said:

ThreadBare said:

The sooner black people learn to distinguish between reacting to another's free speech and reacting to the violation of their civil rights, the quicker this foolilshness will end.

Fight the latter til your last breath, but acting like someone saying that word (outside of contexts of one's civil rights being affected) will somehow wound you is falling prey to a racist's wishes. It almost seems to be a step backward, sometimes.

I will respond to that by saying this. Because of the concept of, "Free Speech", we all have the right to scream, "FIRE"!! in a movie theater. However, due to the consequences of one doing that, very few do it. My point is this, just because you have the right to say something, does not mean that you should. Words such as this one, can do just as much damage to ones mind and soul, as a fire does to ones body.

I know free speech isn't absolute. I just think we go overboard about a word in really confusing (to others) ways and inconsistently. Are we alone in that inconsistency with regard to slurs? Not hardly. But the longer and harder we react to some utterances of the word, the more people with racist agendas are going to try to use it in subtle ways to set us off. Let it go, unless it truly can be proven to violate your civil rights some way (like at your job or at your bank). It all comes off as being immature to me: "Mommy! Timmy doesn't like meeee!"

ThreadBare said:

shorttrini said:

I will respond to that by saying this. Because of the concept of, "Free Speech", we all have the right to scream, "FIRE"!! in a movie theater. However, due to the consequences of one doing that, very few do it. My point is this, just because you have the right to say something, does not mean that you should. Words such as this one, can do just as much damage to ones mind and soul, as a fire does to ones body.

I know free speech isn't absolute. I just think we go overboard about a word in really confusing (to others) ways and inconsistently. Are we alone in that inconsistency with regard to slurs? Not hardly. But the longer and harder we react to some utterances of the word, the more people with racist agendas are going to try to use it in subtle ways to set us off. Let it go, unless it truly can be proven to violate your civil rights some way (like at your job or at your bank). It all comes off as being immature to me: "Mommy! Timmy doesn't like meeee!"

Tell my great-great grandfather that, who was a slave. Or let's not even use the example of that word. Let's use the example of a kid or someone who has been verbally and mentally abused. It could be by a parent or a bully. Is it still a case of, "Mommy! Timmy doesn't not like me"? Yes, people have different breaking points, but why would you not take something that is meant to be negative, so seriously. I am disabled, and I am stared at and sometimes called names, on a daily basis. Should I let it go all the time, that somebody just went out of their way to call me, "crip" or "gimp"? Now, I am not saying that it bothers me all the time. But, there are times, when you can't just, "let it go". Calling me those names, hurt just as much as calling me, that word that I refuse to say within this reply. Let me just say this....Until you walked in a man's mind, let alone his shoes, you have NO idea, what he has gone through or what his breaking point is.

angel345 said:

2elijah said:

No disrespect to you angel345, but I'm not buying that, because I hear and have heard other people within non-black groups, calling each other certain terms, just for the sake of it, that I know are considered, offensive racial slurs. If I said the same to them, regardless if I hear them joking with each other about it, doesn't mean I should get a pass and get away with saying it to them; nor because some in those groups use it daily, gives me a reason or pass to do it too;especially when I'm in full knowledge that 'specific' terms are offensive to others within or outside of my racial/ethnic group.

I used to hear some of my White co-workers, when I worked in the south calling each other a term, which in my opinion, is offensive/racist. Now if "I" had said what they said to one another, they would feel it differently coming from someone outside their racial/ethnic group.

It's also a lame excuse to put the blame on Blacks for the use of the term, as a reason, excuse or justification for someone else outside their group to have a pass to use it. As far as 'some' Blacks (not all within the Black community as a whole as I know the entire Black community does not use that term within their everyday language(s) or conversation(s) ) who choose to use it among themselves today, well guess what, it's 2011, and there's no reasonable excuse that can convince me that there is a 'need' to use it, as a term of endearment, just for the sake of it, amongst those one chooses to converse with, because at the end of the day, if their child called them that term with or without the 'a' at the end, it would 'sting' them hard. The dictionary is not short of words/terms to use, that one finds they have to rely on that particular term to complete a phrase, sentence or conversation or use it as a 'term of endearment'. Simply put..no excuses.

So you're saying that blacks who use it so loosely bears no domino effect on others? Not from what I am witnessing. The reason that word is used so loosely is because who is speaking up? Who is educating today's black youth on the history behind that word. Remember Dr. Laura? She stated that the reason she used that word on the air was because today's blacks are using it as a term of endearment, so that gives her a pass. So she thought. Or she may be a racist, and this gives her the opportunity to let it slip out, without no complaints. I tell my daughter and nephew so many times how I dislike the word and its history. They don't use it around me. I do not condone the usage of the word, and never had.

(Bolded part) Never stated that or I would have stated exactly that. But I don't think you read my thread thoroughly Angel345. Again, if 5 people from another group used a racially-slurred term consistently, that I know is an offensive term, yet I repeated it towards someone from their group or just use it for the sake of it, just because I hear them doing it all the time, does that mean it enables me or gives me the excuse to use it or should I put the blame on them for me using it? Absolutely not, because that's a lame excuse for my actions, and I feel the same about Dr. Laura's bs excuse, who found herself caught with her big foot in her mouth and used that poor excuse to justify a term she chose to use, knowing it's an offensive term, and the fact that she is not far from the generation who knows the history of that term and the so-called endearing branches of the term. Bottom line, it is a very poor reason to blame someone else for specific terms, one takes the liberty to use, and knowing a specific racial slur/term could possibly offend a specific group or individual. I'm not buying that 'domino' effect theory as an excuse to use it, but I do respect your opinion though.

'rearranged sentence edit'

[Edited 10/5/11 11:47am]

deebee said:

2elijah said:

Nice post. I think the current generation who never lived around the time of their parents/grandparents further back (pre-civil rights and soon after) will have a different opinion about the term, so it's no surprise that someone from my generation vs being born in the current or not-so-distant generation post-civil rights era, will see the term and its meaning/use differently. No matter which way it is spelled it comes from the root of the same tree. This in my opinion and experience, will never be a topic where on the whole, everyone will agree about its use.

But to use a racial slur because one thinks it's cool or endearing it's a poor excuse and ignorant to say the least. Whether artists in the hip-hop music industry use it, doesn't make it okay, because the majority of them are from the same parents/grandparents or who have relatives that felt the sting of that term and know why it was directed towards them. I despise all uses of it for good reason. I know of and have heard terms considered racial slurs used among people within various, racial/ethnic groups, and many know of those terms as well, but I don't have any desire or need to use it to get through my day. I just think some people outside of the black community, take advantage of the excuse that they "..hear other Blacks use it when talking to their friends as a term of endearment, " as a reason to get a pass to throw the term around, for their own intentions or ignorance. I have the same dislike for Blacks using the term and quite frankly they should know better too. Anyway, this will always be a neverending topic.

[Edited 10/4/11 12:19pm]

Yes, I can well imagine that to people that lived through the civil rights movement, or grew up around people who had, must be incredulous and disappointed that the word's found such currency amongst some younger people, and in popular culture more generally. And I think it's very true that people do use that as 'cover' to serve their own purposes. On Fox News, it seems to be almost a stock response whenever some celebrity or politician is in the news for using a questionable phrase that they throw up the call of 'double-standards' and claim that 'hip hop did it first'! I remember a few clips in which reporters tried to do precisely that from around the time of the Don Imus controversy.

Tbh, I have a suspicion this clip will get a lot of coverage amongst those drawn to making the 'double-standards' argument to serve just those ends. Sherri's response is ideal fodder for that since she makes the "she can say it, but you can't" point so starkly, and also because the fact that she seems to be confusing the two arguments means that that point comes off as being out of place and a bit unreasonable.

Agree, and I think Sherri's point was that if Barbara used it freely, because she is from a different racial group, that she would get more flack than Whoopi using it. Point is, Whoopi is from a generation who knows the sting of that term and she should know better than embracing any branches of that term, because she is from the civil rights generation, and she should understand that many from that generation compared to someone from today's generation, may feel the sting and history of that term, moreso than the younger generation, who was not around pre-civil rights era and soon thereafter. Regardless if some are 'misinformed' or those who don't understand, why some would get upset or offended hearing it. No matter what form it is used, most (the general public) will see it having the same historical meaning. I mean since when was the term 'n***a' or 'n*****r' meant to signify something positive or one who has made positive achievements or greatness in the world? Again, no matter which way it is spelled or used, most in the general masses will see its use as degrading and offensive.

[Edited 10/5/11 12:04pm]

2elijah said:

angel345 said:

So you're saying that blacks who use it so loosely bears no domino effect on others? Not from what I am witnessing. The reason that word is used so loosely is because who is speaking up? Who is educating today's black youth on the history behind that word. Remember Dr. Laura? She stated that the reason she used that word on the air was because today's blacks are using it as a term of endearment, so that gives her a pass. So she thought. Or she may be a racist, and this gives her the opportunity to let it slip out, without no complaints. I tell my daughter and nephew so many times how I dislike the word and its history. They don't use it around me. I do not condone the usage of the word, and never had.

(Bolded part) Never stated that or I would have stated exactly that. But I don't think you read my thread thoroughly Angel345. Again, if 5 people from another group used a racially-slurred term consistently, that I know is an offensive term, yet I repeated it towards someone from their group or just use it for the sake of it, just because I hear them doing it all the time, does that mean it enables me or gives me the excuse to use it or should I put the blame on them for me using it? Absolutely not, because that's a lame excuse for my actions, and I feel the same about Dr. Laura's bs excuse, who found herself caught with her big foot in her mouth and used that poor excuse to justify a term she chose to use, knowing it's an offensive term, and the fact that she is not far from the generation who knows the history of that term and the so-called endearing branches of the term. Bottom line, it is a very poor reason to blame someone else for specific terms, known to be possibly offensive towards another group, that is spewed out of one's mouth who took the 'liberty' of using it. I'm not buying that kind of 'domino' effect theory. I do respect your opinion though.

[Edited 10/5/11 9:53am]

Ok.

StonedImmaculate said:

morningsong said:

It's a curse word like c**t or b***h, some folks use them in love with those they are close to, some folks would never use them to refer anyone because they see them as an insult, most people have sense enough to know they're not words you can just say to anybody at anytime. I wouldn't walk up to any female and say "what's up, b***h?, just because I heard a female comedian say it, so then it must be okay to use it addressing females.

And there is a big difference between the "a"and "er" forms of the word.

The "a" version derives from "er". Where else could it come from?

I'm still confused as to why Sherri didn't get upset with Whoopi for using it in front of a predominately white audience. Barbara is a journalist, still, and she used it in reference to the story she was reporting on. Low and behold, here comes Sherri, the same heffa that thought it was appropriate to lift up her wig and show that barren wasteland she calls a scalp.

I suppose the bottom line is that professionals, when speaking to an ill informed audience, should be more prudent in their use of words that have an offensive and racist meaning/history behind them.

I can't say that I ever recall hearing the word "bitch" uttered by any of those View ladies.

HotGritz said:

I'm still confused as to why Sherri didn't get upset with Whoopi for using it in front of a predominately white audience. Barbara is a journalist, still, and she used it in reference to the story she was reporting on. Low and behold, here comes Sherri, the same heffa that thought it was appropriate to lift up her wig and show that barren wasteland she calls a scalp.

I suppose the bottom line is that professionals, when speaking to an ill informed audience, should be more prudent in their use of words that have an offensive and racist meaning/history behind them.

I can't say that I ever recall hearing the word "bitch" uttered by any of those View ladies.

Sherri should have called Whoopi on it, but if Sherri's attempt was to educate Barbara that her use of the word in public, for the 'sake of using it', would be taken offensive because of Barbara's racial background and based on the history of the term, then Sherri failed at explaining it in such a way. Now, like you said, if Barbara was referencing a story she was reporting on, discussing that term being used, and not specifically just blurting the term out, just for the sake of it, then Barbara committed no crime. Sherri appears clueless at times, which this latest action of hers doesn't surprise me.

[Edited 10/5/11 12:10pm]

2elijah said:

HotGritz said:

I'm still confused as to why Sherri didn't get upset with Whoopi for using it in front of a predominately white audience. Barbara is a journalist, still, and she used it in reference to the story she was reporting on. Low and behold, here comes Sherri, the same heffa that thought it was appropriate to lift up her wig and show that barren wasteland she calls a scalp.

I suppose the bottom line is that professionals, when speaking to an ill informed audience, should be more prudent in their use of words that have an offensive and racist meaning/history behind them.

I can't say that I ever recall hearing the word "bitch" uttered by any of those View ladies.

Sherri should have called Whoopi on it, but if Sherri's attempt was to educate Barbara that her use of the word in public, for the 'sake of using it', would be taken offensive because of Barbara's racial background and based on the history of the term, then Sherri failed at explaining it in such a way. Now, like you said, if Barbara was referencing a story she was reporting on, discussing that term being used, and not specifically just blurting the term out, just for the sake of it, then Barbara committed no crime. Sherri appears clueless at times, which this latest action of hers doesn't surprise me.

[Edited 10/5/11 12:10pm]

I'm bored with her. I wish they would replace Sherri with an authentic journalist. There are plenty of accomplished African-American women who could fill that slot and still provide the viewers with entertainment from time to time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_HQ3yNPWl4

sherri shepard is a dumb ass.

shorttrini said:

These woman don't have enough sense to come out of the damn rain!! Sherri needs to get a clue and realize that no matter how you say it or spell it, the conatation behind it, is STILL the same. Whoppi and her old, "I STILL love Ted Danson In Blackface" ass, also needs to get a clue. She needs to figure out what side of the fence she wants to play on....The Darkside or the Light side, because it is impossible to kiss both sides of that ass, without getting a mouth full of shit...smh.

You know ABC/Disney (never mind The View) is doing real bad business when Elisabeth Hasselback is the one on her best behavor this week.

Just saying.