Ace said:

Genesia said:

for someone just starting out to say, "Well this makes no sense - I'm going to get a PC," when the creative world runs on Mac is futile and stupid.

But no one's made the argument that you can't do the actual work with a PC.

no, in fact they're saying you CAN do the work on a PC, but working with other people in your field may be more difficult because you are working in different platforms.

NDRU said:

Ace said:

But no one's made the argument that you can't do the actual work with a PC.

no, in fact they're saying you CAN do the work on a PC, but working with other people in your field may be more difficult because you are working in different platforms.

Thank you.

I'm exhausted.

Cerebus said:

I just don't understand why people think following the herd, particularly creative people, is the way to go. There is no difference anymore (something I've been saying for years). People in this thread, smart people, have explained it in very clear, technical terms. If all of the work is interchangable because its done on software usable on both peices of hardware, why does the piece of hardware you're using matter? Because its pretty? Because that's what people have been using? Ugh. I just hate this mess.

Thank you.

I'm exhausted.

Cerebus said:

I just don't understand why people think following the herd, particularly creative people, is the way to go. There is no difference anymore (something I've been saying for years). People in this thread, smart people, have explained it in very clear, technical terms. If all of the work is interchangable because its done on software usable on both peices of hardware, why does the piece of hardware you're using matter? Because its pretty? Because that's what people have been using? Ugh. I just hate this mess. Do whatcha like. Change is good. Etc etc etc.

This assumes that creatives who work on Macs don't want to work on Macs. That they'd rather work on PCs and be like...inventory managers. Or accountants.

Ace said:

sextonseven said:

Does your friend intend to work with "everyone else"?

Yes. But she just might have the stones to "think different".

In other words, your friend can't afford a Mac.

sextonseven said:

Ace said:

Yes. But she just might have the stones to "think different".

In other words, your friend can't afford a Mac.

sextonseven said:

Ace said:

Yes. But she just might have the stones to "think different".

In other words, your friend can't afford a Mac.

ouch!

NDRU said:

Ace said:

But no one's made the argument that you can't do the actual work with a PC.

no, in fact they're saying you CAN do the work on a PC, but working with other people in your field may be more difficult because you are working in different platforms.

In reality, it isn't any more of less difficult, but exactly the same in most cases. But each case varies depending on WHAT you do.

Example - the standard in the graphic design world is Adobe Photoshop. As I mentioned before - it's identical on both Windows and OSX. Identical. The same. It looks the same, it functions the same, it's the same freakin' thing, there is not a difference.

If you work in web design - you're likely using Dreamweaver. Same deal. Same program.

And, actually..... if you work creatively using Flash.... using OSX puts you at a disadvantage - why? Because Flash on OSX is notoriously unstable. It simply doesn't work as well with OSX as it does with Windows. This is part of the reason why Flash is not available on the iPhone/iPad (the operating system, iOS is based on OSX). Steve Jobs was not happy with the instability of Flash on OSX.

In the pro-audio world, Pro Tools is the standard, and again it's exactly the same environment on Windows and OSX.

If anyone can actually give me ONE real world, recent example, of a problem that occurred because if something being platform incompatible (not including proprietary software that Apple make, like iMovie), I'd be interested in knowing.

Fact is, you crack open a modern PC and a modern Mac and they have the same shit inside them - Intel processors, Samsung RAM, Seagate hard drives, etc.

It's just different operating systems, and any serious developer will make sure their applications functions in an identical manner on both.

Apple like to pretend otherwise to justify their extortionally high profit margins when they are selling you the same freakin' thing. And hell, you like OSX THAT much you can build a Hackintosh like I said. That's what my cousin did. We ran the figures, and Apple don't even sell a machine as high spec'd as what he built, and if he did they would charge over $6k for it. He built it for $1k in parts, and it runs OSX better than the highest powered machines in the Apple stores So you see why Apple have the highest revenues, because through marketing they've convinced the world that their machines are diffferent somehow.

:hah:

sextonseven said:

Militant said:

If anyone can actually give me ONE real world, recent example, of a problem that occurred because if something being platform incompatible (not including proprietary software that Apple make, like iMovie), I'd be interested in knowing.

Dude's thrown down the fucking gauntlet. Do something with that, Rev. Jobs Kool-Aid drinkers!

Genesia said:

Cerebus said:

I just don't understand why people think following the herd, particularly creative people, is the way to go. There is no difference anymore (something I've been saying for years). People in this thread, smart people, have explained it in very clear, technical terms. If all of the work is interchangable because its done on software usable on both peices of hardware, why does the piece of hardware you're using matter? Because its pretty? Because that's what people have been using? Ugh. I just hate this mess. Do whatcha like. Change is good. Etc etc etc.

This assumes that creatives who work on Macs don't want to work on Macs. That they'd rather work on PCs and be like...inventory managers. Or accountants.

Its been said pretty clearly in this thread by many people (you included, I believe) that its being done habitually, as convention. Not because its the only way, or even the best way. Also, that last part is rather insulting and unncessary. I haven't made any disparaging remarks about the people using them (other than calling a sheep a sheep). Just saying that they don't need to if they choose to do otherwise. This is fact.

It comes down to this:

Buy a Mac if you want to pay an extra two thousand (plus) dollars for a nice little glowy apple on the back of a laptop.

Don't forget you'll be outdated in less than half a year!

A good graphic designer can create and manage work between PC's and MAC's.

A dumb graphic designer will choose a MAC thinking that will make them better.

A computer, like everything else in the art world is a tool. You could spend a couple hundred dollars for some really nice looking paint, or ten dollars for a basic set of colors. In the end, it's what is made that matters, not from what.

A lot of the time that choice is already made for you at your place of employment.

ZombieKitten said:

A lot of the time that choice is already made for you at your place of employment.

That's why it's a good idea to be familiar with both.

Cerebus said:

Genesia said:

This assumes that creatives who work on Macs don't want to work on Macs. That they'd rather work on PCs and be like...inventory managers. Or accountants.

Its been said pretty clearly in this thread by many people (you included, I believe) that its being done habitually, as convention. Not because its the only way, or even the best way. Also, that last part is rather insulting and unncessary. I haven't made any disparaging remarks about the people using them (other than calling a sheep a sheep). Just saying that they don't need to if they choose to do otherwise. This is fact.

Oh, yeah. Nothing insulting about that. You realize that you totally contradicted yourself there, right?

It is just as true that creative people do not want to be thought of in the same way as bean counters as it is that you think of Mac users as sheep. That you think one is an insult but not the other isn't is...ridiculous.

[Edited 9/29/11 18:55pm]

Ace, look at it this way, ok?

ok?

Think of PCs and Macs as young men in their 30's, not teenagers anymore, but still growing and experiencing new things.

Now think of the tasks that they have to do as the Sunday New York Times crossword puzzle, notoriously difficult sometimes.

1. Mr. PC walks into a crowded coffee shop and does the crossword puzzle. Afer some time erasing bad answers and resorting to liquid paper because it can't completely erase all the smudges caused by it's previous attempts, Mr. PC finally arrives at the solution to the puzzle. And just for grins he does the sex questionaire in the back of the paper, and answers a few personals, etc.

2. Mr. Mac does the crossword puzzle, one time..... in ink.

..... and he does so.... wearing this wonderful jacket by Armani:

Mr. PC looks over, and in an envious rage, he starts harping about how much it cost Mr. Mac to come strolling into the coffee shop wearing Armani and a $100 haircut.

....... so the next Sunday morning, :

1. Mr. Mac comes walking in, wearing his same tried and true Armani jacket, sips his cappucino, and does the crossword puzzle.....in ink.

2. Mr. PC comes in wearing a brand new jacket too! Not about to be outdone by Mr. Mac, he comes in wearing this season's........ HOT TOPIC PACMAN JACKET

....and still procedes to doing the puzzle with no real focus because he's focussed on trying to impress the chics at the table next to him, chics who have already blown him off because he's a 35 year old man in a pacman jacket and doc martins (a nono for those of you over 30 ).

Really think about this, Ace.

..... REALLY THINK

[Edited 9/29/11 19:21pm]

Genesia said:

Cerebus said:

Its been said pretty clearly in this thread by many people (you included, I believe) that its being done habitually, as convention. Not because its the only way, or even the best way. Also, that last part is rather insulting and unncessary. I haven't made any disparaging remarks about the people using them (other than calling a sheep a sheep). Just saying that they don't need to if they choose to do otherwise. This is fact.

Oh, yeah. Nothing insulting about that. You realize that you totally contradicted yourself there, right?

It is just as true that creative people do not want to be thought of in the same way as bean counters as it is that you think of Mac users as sheep. That you think one is an insult but not the other isn't is...ridiculous.

Of course I knew I contradicted myself. Like, duh!

And your insults and assumptions continue. Apparently you've forgotten that I AM a bean counter. We don't give a shit because the image of what piece of equipment a person is using makes no difference. However, you made my point. "Creative types" (bunch of bs to insinuate that they're any better or different than anybody else) don't want to be THOUGHT OF a certain way. The reality is that there is no longer a difference beyond that IMAGE. Period. That is what I find ridiculous. That has been my point all along. Not once did I argue against the reality of the situation. In fact, I think I was one of the first people to point it out. Doesn't change the fact that it's 100% image based and no longer necessary.

imago said:

That's pretty much it. If Mac users want to pay more for perceived value, why do PC users get upset?

ZombieKitten said:

iThat's pretty much it. If Mac users want to pay more for perceived value, why do PC users get upset?

Because, clearly, we're looked down upon for making that decision, which is completely ludicrous. We're no less creative, inspired, "cool", or whatever, then any mac user.

On a personal note, image based marketing has always gotten under my skin. Its one of the lowest and easiest forms of herd mentality.

Cerebus said:

So PC users have an inferiority complex?
I don't look down on PC users
I don't have enough experience in using a PC to even compare the 2 platforms fairly. I don't see how a designer has a herd mentality. I've been using a Mac for work since 1989. I am not responsible for the rise in Apple's popularity - nor has that ever influenced my decision to use one as provided in my workplace.

Cerebus said:

ZombieKitten said:

iThat's pretty much it. If Mac users want to pay more for perceived value, why do PC users get upset?

Because, clearly, we're looked down upon for making that decision, which is completely ludicrous. We're no less creative, inspired, "cool", or whatever, then any mac user.

On a personal note, image based marketing has always gotten under my skin. Its one of the lowest and easiest forms of herd mentality.

No no no.

I don't look down on you for owning a pc!

I look down on the pc that you own.

GROUP HUG.

Cerebus said:

ZombieKitten said:

iThat's pretty much it. If Mac users want to pay more for perceived value, why do PC users get upset?

Because, clearly, we're looked down upon for making that decision, which is completely ludicrous. We're no less creative, inspired, "cool", or whatever, then any mac user.

On a personal note, image based marketing has always gotten under my skin. Its one of the lowest and easiest forms of herd mentality.

But PC users get to look down on Mac users for being hoodwinked into thinking that good marketing makes it worth paying double for a laptop made of the same parts that runs the same programs and requires you to pay for a new OS every six weeks.

We ALL get to look down upon each other, together! That is what choice is all about!

I think I made my points very clearly. Its more than a little bit frustrating that such simple concepts aren't understood by people I consider to be of above average intelligence.

I'm not judging anybody in this thread, or anybody who buys a mac. Again, my points appear to have been missed completely.

I promise you I will not be posting in any future mac threads. For reals.

NDRU said:

I've only once bought a new OS that didn't come with a new machine. (Since 1989 Ive bought 3 new computers for my home studio). And I didn't really need it, I thought I'd be using iWeb but still haven't.

I use Windows, OSX, and Linux also. So I'm not sure where I fit into the coffee shop equation. Clearly I'm cooler than both the Pacman hoodie guy AND the Armani guy.

Also I'm gonna point out that the Pacman hoodie is fucking cool. But, I'm in my early 20's, so I guess that means I can pull off that kind of look and make it sexy

Militant said:

I use Windows, OSX, and Linux also. So I'm not sure where I fit into the coffee shop equation. Clearly I'm cooler than both the Pacman hoodie guy AND the Armani guy.

Also I'm gonna point out that the Pacman hoodie is fucking cool. But, I'm in my early 20's, so I guess that means I can pull off that kind of look and make it sexy

you're a graphic designer too?

I liked the hoodie too, but I would have liked it with robots better

Cerebus said:

ZombieKitten said:

iThat's pretty much it. If Mac users want to pay more for perceived value, why do PC users get upset?

Because, clearly, we're looked down upon for making that decision, which is completely ludicrous. We're no less creative, inspired, "cool", or whatever, then any mac user.

On a personal note, image based marketing has always gotten under my skin. Its one of the lowest and easiest forms of herd mentality.

I like what you did there

from now on call me iZombieKitten

ZombieKitten said:

Militant said:

I use Windows, OSX, and Linux also. So I'm not sure where I fit into the coffee shop equation. Clearly I'm cooler than both the Pacman hoodie guy AND the Armani guy.

Also I'm gonna point out that the Pacman hoodie is fucking cool. But, I'm in my early 20's, so I guess that means I can pull off that kind of look and make it sexy

you're a graphic designer too?

I liked the hoodie too, but I would have liked it with robots better

I am! I mostly work in music-related stuff, because I started out doing the graphics for my own band (ie working our logos, merchandise, promo graphics etc) and then other musicians started asking if I would do stuff for them. It's a side-hustle

Militant said:

ZombieKitten said:

you're a graphic designer too?

I liked the hoodie too, but I would have liked it with robots better

I am! I mostly work in music-related stuff, because I started out doing the graphics for my own band (ie working our logos, merchandise, promo graphics etc) and then other musicians started asking if I would do stuff for them. It's a side-hustle

awesome I do band stuff a LOT too, being married to a rockstar and all

imago said:

Ace, look at it this way, ok?

ok?

Think of PCs and Macs as young men in their 30's, not teenagers anymore, but still growing and experiencing new things.

Now think of the tasks that they have to do as the Sunday New York Times crossword puzzle, notoriously difficult sometimes.

1. Mr. PC walks into a crowded coffee shop and does the crossword puzzle. Afer some time erasing bad answers and resorting to liquid paper because it can't completely erase all the smudges caused by it's previous attempts, Mr. PC finally arrives at the solution to the puzzle. And just for grins he does the sex questionaire in the back of the paper, and answers a few personals, etc.

2. Mr. Mac does the crossword puzzle, one time..... in ink.

..... and he does so.... wearing this wonderful jacket by Armani:

Mr. PC looks over, and in an envious rage, he starts harping about how much it cost Mr. Mac to come strolling into the coffee shop wearing Armani and a $100 haircut.

....... so the next Sunday morning, :

1. Mr. Mac comes walking in, wearing his same tried and true Armani jacket, sips his cappucino, and does the crossword puzzle.....in ink.

2. Mr. PC comes in wearing a brand new jacket too! Not about to be outdone by Mr. Mac, he comes in wearing this season's........ HOT TOPIC PACMAN JACKET

....and still procedes to doing the puzzle with no real focus because he's focussed on trying to impress the chics at the table next to him, chics who have already blown him off because he's a 35 year old man in a pacman jacket and doc martins (a nono for those of you over 30 ).

Really think about this, Ace.

..... REALLY THINK

[Edited 9/29/11 19:21pm]