Read this story in the New York Times recently and wondered if anyone has any comments:

http://www.nytimes.com/20...erone.html

The idea is that men naturally see a drop in testosterone when they spend a lot of time taking care of a new baby. I wonder if there might be other causes, such as sleep deprivation and a lack of time to focus on anything else, that account for the drop in testosterone rather than the childcare per se.

Incidentally, I think my generation may be the first where it is considered inappropriate for the man not to change diapers and help with everything else (except breastfeeding). Men in my father's generation didn't change diapers (or at least he certainly didn't). I would feel guilty if I wasn't doing it. Men pushing strollers is completely normal now too.

Just some ramblings from a new father.

Men changing diapers? Are we all going crazy?

purpledoveuk said:

I would never cheat on my wife abd kids anyway but.... It's probably less to do with testosterone and more to do with being absoloutely shattered and having absoloutely no spare time to do any sneaking around if one was so inclined.....and the time factor only becomes greater the older theankle-biters get but then I do absolutely everything for my kids and have done from birth (night feeds, bed changing, putting any wanderers back to bed, cooking tea, swimming,baths, bed time routines, reading stories) plus work fulltime...so maybe I'm just getting a rough deal - Im owed infidelity time !!!!! Oh and men not doing the 'women's tasks' of feeding, cooking, nappies/diapers etc ....ain't a thing of the past with some of my friends. Some people are still stuck way in the past with regards to duties they will take on and toys they will allow their kids to playwith.

...and have you noticed any signs of lower testosterone?

I imagine this is a biological response aimed at getting men to care for the offspring they've already begat, instead of focusing on making more.

Genesia said:

I imagine this is a biological response aimed at getting men to care for the offspring they've already begat, instead of focusing on making more.

That's exactly it.

PurpleJedi said:

purpledoveuk said:

I would never cheat on my wife abd kids anyway but.... It's probably less to do with testosterone and more to do with being absoloutely shattered and having absoloutely no spare time to do any sneaking around if one was so inclined.....and the time factor only becomes greater the older theankle-biters get but then I do absolutely everything for my kids and have done from birth (night feeds, bed changing, putting any wanderers back to bed, cooking tea, swimming,baths, bed time routines, reading stories) plus work fulltime...so maybe I'm just getting a rough deal - Im owed infidelity time !!!!! Oh and men not doing the 'women's tasks' of feeding, cooking, nappies/diapers etc ....ain't a thing of the past with some of my friends. Some people are still stuck way in the past with regards to duties they will take on and toys they will allow their kids to playwith.

...and have you noticed any signs of lower testosterone?

Nah ...just a lower will to live

purpledoveuk said:

PurpleJedi said:

...and have you noticed any signs of lower testosterone?

Nah ...just a lower will to live

electricberet said:

Read this story in the New York Times recently and wondered if anyone has any comments:

http://www.nytimes.com/20...erone.html

The idea is that men naturally see a drop in testosterone when they spend a lot of time taking care of a new baby. I wonder if there might be other causes, such as sleep deprivation and a lack of time to focus on anything else, that account for the drop in testosterone rather than the childcare per se.

Incidentally, I think my generation may be the first where it is considered inappropriate for the man not to change diapers and help with everything else (except breastfeeding). Men in my father's generation didn't change diapers (or at least he certainly didn't). I would feel guilty if I wasn't doing it. Men pushing strollers is completely normal now too.

Just some ramblings from a new father.

I don't even have to read the article to realize and appreciate that you've made the logical and common sense counterargument to childcare lowering testosterone. Its not as if we mentally have controll over our hormones with the exception of stress. Stress hormone cortisol has various effects on one's body and I'd venture to say that a drop in testosterone, especially when not permanent, is no big deal.

Plus, fathers sharing in the nurturing and caring of children can only be a good thing both for the child and the mother. Jeez, either we are evolving or we're not.

purpledoveuk said:

PurpleJedi said:

...and have you noticed any signs of lower testosterone?

Nah ...just a lower will to live

Maybe they get stressed and drink more alcohol, which lowers testosterone.

Fauxie said:

Maybe they get stressed and drink more alcohol, which lowers testosterone.

More than you know

Mabe it has something to do with the fact that the sex kitten they knocked up is now nowhere near as interested in the balls to the wall sex they used to have because her attention and ears are now focused on that "bundle of joy" who tends to piss, shit, and scream at the most inoppotune times.

Genesia said:

I imagine this is a biological response aimed at getting men to care for the offspring they've already begat, instead of focusing on making more.

Bingo.

Lammastide said:

Genesia said:

I imagine this is a biological response aimed at getting men to care for the offspring they've already begat, instead of focusing on making more.

Bingo.

I don't think so, unless you're thinking of a sudden mutation.

How else would you explain that supposed decrease in testosterone not affecting our fathers, grandfathers...and so til the start of human kind?

I think the age of the men studied is important. If you are a man/father in your 30s or 40s your testosterone is going to drop no matter what.

Genesia said:

I imagine this is a biological response aimed at getting men to care for the offspring they've already begat, instead of focusing on making more.

Well then it clearly ain't workin' right in a lot of cases.

I have no problem believing this study is correct, however. Because all it takes is a woman mentioning a baby and my testosterone packs up and walks out the door (literally).

Interesting follow-up editorial in the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost...ml?hpid=z3

I like this testosterone-raising advice:

Before a game, you need to give a young soccer player a pep talk like this:

“Your team is much better than this other team, and you’re going to score a bunch of goals and the other team is going to feel bad and I guarantee you there will be one little girl who starts to cry because her team is losing so terribly. That’s when you need to get really medieval on her. It’s when they’re down like that that you need to show them a universe of pain. It’s not whether you win or lose, it’s whether you elicit pitiful lamentation.”

I plan on teaching my son to follow a similar philosophy:

PANDURITO said:

Lammastide said:

Bingo.

I don't think so, unless you're thinking of a sudden mutation.

How else would you explain that supposed decrease in testosterone not affecting our fathers, grandfathers...and so til the start of human kind?

I've got no problem believing this is a derived trait. It's not like humans don't bear others in view of close hominid relatives -- full bipedalism; a much thinner pelt; relative physical weakness; foot, dental and shoulder physiology.

Our young have peculiarly long maturation periods among primates. Makes sense to me, then, that both female and male parents of our species might be just as recently wired to rear them.

[Edited 9/15/11 17:13pm]