I rent the lower half of the house

when I moved in I had to clean the carpet we cleaned them professionally NOT some steamer company but high priced one that uses sponges

paint every inch of every wall and kitchen cabinets

clean the scum from the bathroom AND the kitchen

clean the seven year scum from the windows and wood work

replaced light fixtures light switches and outlets (because nothin would work otherwise)

bought a new fridge and stove because there was NONE and the ladlady said we needed to purchase one and she may buy it from us before we leave

we put alot of money into just making it liveable

her sister used to live in the upper half, NEVER had any problems with her, she moved out

this week some lady and her 3 yr old son move in

we share our heat/air and she smokes

we do not smoke
everything in our house is of some value because we collect mid century furinture
we have new things too
we take pride and meticulous care of everything we own AND dont own(our apartment)

should we have to put up with her smoke resurculating through the house? Makeing all of our clothes and furnishings stink of smoke?
I wouldnt care if she smoked if it didnt come in through our vents too.
to make it worse because the landlady told her to smoke out her window, she now burn tons of stick insense to try to mask the oder which is just as bad.


what should we do ?
what can we do?
[This message was edited Sat Feb 15 10:30:18 PST 2003 by GIOVANNI]

Look at this way. The lady has EVERY right to smoke in HER house. She pays the same money that you do. As long as smoking is not illegal or against the lease there is nothing you can do.

so I need to live with the smoke because she pays rent just as I do



oh


...

If it's illegal in most places to smoke in public facilities, then surely it should be illegal to smoke in a shared apartment. If not for your concern, your upstairs neighbor should at least respect her child and not smoke in his living space. From your post it sounds as if your landlady is on your side...I would go back to her and re-state your case and threaten to move elsewhere and take your stove and fridge with you if she can't do something about the smoke. You SHOULD NOT have to live like that.

Best of Luck

GIOVANNI said:

Why should she be penalized when she isn't doing anything wrong? Like I said if it's not in the lease and it's legal to smoke where you live why should she be penalized just because she happens to live near a non-smoker?

I hate to say this but if it bothers you that much you may have to move.

I say this as a former smoker who now doesn't care much for the smell of cigarette smoke.

HotThang said:

Good God I hope your kidding. If it's not in the lease the government will never be able to tell you that you can't smoke in YOUR own house.

well unfortunately Im on the out skirts of chicago in the heathen state of WISCONSIN and they have NO laws about smoking

they are quite ignorant here in wisconsin

I understand that california has banned smoking in public areas period

but wisconsin is talking of doing that

good christ they havent even had a law to where they just have enclosed and vented smoking areas..you can still smoke in fastfood places

and they are talking of trying to pass a law to ban smoking in all public areas including bars!

now I think the bar part is alittle to far

when I go to a bar I expect to be around people that smoke

why not have enclosed smoking sections that are vented?
its fine with me


BUT smoking against my will in MY own home, I pay to much for this shit hole as it is, we are excellent tenates we pay rent months in advance, and update and fix thier property, a landlords dream come true

yes and I totally agree that she shouldnt smoke around her child, NOT because I dont want her smoking in this house because it will have effects on her child such as highly sensitive to allergies,
I tell my frineds ALL the time NOT to smoke in their house or car if they have children


Im sooo glad that she feels its alright to ruin my car with her smoke to ..thats how far it will go
no one can eat or smoke or spray any thing in my car because I want to retain the natural smell of my car for years, but that wont happen now because when I put on my clothes from inside my smoke stenched house and get in my car I;ll be stinking up my car with her smoke stench

MAYBE she should make my car payment for me then if she has those kinds of rights

I don't understand why u would invest so much time and money in someone elses home.

It appears that the both of u r financially secure and intelligent, based on the purchases u make and how u choose 2 live.

Why don't u just buy ur own home. Right now the interest rates r the lowest they've ever been, ur mortgage payment may be lower than the rent u're paying now.

The plus - tax credits, equity, credit...and no smokers.

I don't smoke either, I hate the smell. I sympathise with u, but there really is nothing more that u can do - have u tried duct taping the vents closed?

good luck.

yeah well Ill move with my moving expences PAID in full by my ladlady

no problem here

just as long as something is done

either no smoking or paid in full to move

yes we are in the process of saveing to put a down payment on a house that was our intentions from the beging when we moved here but we wasnt going to puchase and will not be ready to purchase until next fall when 0our lease was supposed to come to an end


we move every two years (about) we want to purchase a home so we can get our money back

June7 said:

I'm not sure that it's legal to have two apartments on one ventilation system... something you may want to look into... and what happens if you want to turn up the heat or A\C?

slip some smoking packets under the door explaining the hazard effects of smoking and the harm second hand smoke does esp. to a small child

Bella said:

This is probably a large house, with the upper and lower levels being rented out (as flats). That would explain the same HVAC system.

Instead of dealing with the landlord, try talking to this woman yourselves. Be polite but direct, and state your concerns (especially about your clothes and furniture, because otherwise it would be judged as just a "preference" and not a "need"). She'll either get defensive or apologetic, but either way you'll get your final answer. Depending on the outcome, you might just have to move.

The bottom line is that until you actually own the property someone else calls the shots.

lovemachine said:

First of all, it's not "her" house. She's a renter, and there are few laws protecting the "rights" of smokers. In this country, smoking is not a protected status according to federal law. A landlord can legally deny an application to rent on the basis of smoking. This is completely different than denying somone an apartment on the basis of age, gender, race, or other protected status. So if you have your landlord's sympathy, and if smoking was not expressly allowed on the lease (or the smoking tenants are on a month to month lease), then smoking can be grounds for denying an extension on the lease.

Secondly, you are entitled to implied warranties of habitability and quiet enjoyment of your property. If, for example, inconsiderate tenants played loud music in the lower unit, then you would be entitled to demand that the music volume be lowered. How is smoking different? If the smell of the smoke is interfering with your quiet enjoyment and ruining your property, then you can demand that your landlord remedy the situation. If the landlord refuses, then sue the landlord for breach of these warranties. From your original post, your economic damgaes would be easy to catalog.

From the sound of it, the upstairs tenant is aware of your concerns, and she's now making matters worse by burning incense to "mask" the stench of the tobacco smoke. Maybe she's trying to make things better, and she'd listen to reasonable compromise solutions. While usually not true of smokers (they are primarily concerned with getting their nicotine fix, even if, as in this case, it poisons their own children), once in a while you'll catch a smoker at a point of desperate self-loathing, where they really want to try to quit. Your heartfelt concerns may tip the scales for her.

Lastly, if she is unwilling to compromise, then while you're making plans to find another home, feel free to make her life hell as well. I'd recommend a few all weekend Prince marathons - start with the early stuff, and play every disc through the Rainbow Children. Not too loudly, after all, that would be against the rules.

My bottom line: Smoking is vile.

lovemachine said:

Okay, but does that right extend to the parts of the house that she is not renting? As I understand the original post, the woman living upstairs is not the owner--she's merely the tenant of the upper half. You've probably heard the old saying: "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

Even if it were the landlady living upstairs, I believe that in most (if not all) states, a lease will generally have an implied and/or express covenant of quiet enjoyment. To translate from lawyer-speak into plain English, a landlord has a general duty not to interfere (or allow another tenant under the landlord's control to interfere) with the tenant's right to live without interference in his/her own apartment.

If I were the attorney representing the original poster, and the situation could not be resolved by informal discussion with everyone involved, I'd look at:

1) Going after the upstairs tenant on some sort of nuisance theory.

2) Going after the landlady for not living up to the covenant of quiet enjoyment.

I don't care whether the other people living in my apartment building smoke. Just keep it out of my apartment--my home is my castle, and I pay good money to rent it.

[Matt's standard disclaimer: While I am licensed to practice law in Indiana, this post is for discussion purposes only, is not legal advice, and creates no attorney-client relationship.]

matt said:

Lawyer till the end...

This is why u should take his advice!!!

Bella said:

I was thinking this same thing. I used to live in a large house that had been converted into 3 separate apartments (one apartment per floor of the house), and when I first moved there the entire house used one heating/central air conditioning system.

About a year later the landlord was informed - by whom I'm not sure - that by law he had to put in separate heating/AC systems for each living space or he'd be in violation of some code. It was apparantly a health issue, what with the 3 apartments all sharing the same system and air circulation between them.

I hope your situation can be resolved, Giovanni. You should NOT have to have your living space and quality of life affected by that lady's smoke. If her smoke didn't affect anybody or anything except her OWN living area, that'd be different - but she's impacting YOUR living space, so something needs to be done. Like others said, you're paying your hard earned money to live there and just because that lady's habit is being conducted in her own apartment, it's still impacting YOUR living area. You shouldn't have to put up with that.

Good luck to you in this.

SnowQueen said:

That's a good point--looking into any applicable rental unit codes is a good idea. I do fear that any such code might exclude (at least for some purposes) former single-family homes that have been chopped up into a few apartments, but it's worth a look.

[Matt's standard disclaimer: While I am licensed to practice law in Indiana, this post is for discussion purposes only, is not legal advice, and creates no attorney-client relationship.]

Oh Giovanni, 'm sorry!

Sataninas said:

thanx for ya'lls input much appreciated

Did somebody say smoking??? If theres something that I truly hate its smoking...can't stand it, the smell 4 me is a kiss from hell!

What a relief Gio. When I smelled that smoke on your clothes I thought you had picked up the habit.

GIOVANNI said:[quote]well unfortunately Im on the out skirts of chicago in the heathen state of WISCONSIN


Good stay on the outskirts of chicago cause with attitude like the one you got we don't want you in chicago...so the next time I see ya driving by I will quickly inhale...blow it on ya and flip my cigarette on your shinny car just to make myself feel better.


Oh and by the way its bitch with a capital B...get it BITCH!!


I'm a bitch...i'm a lover...

ps by the way wisconsin is not the outskirts of chicago...you are more like the outskirts of the northern suburbs. I live in the damn city and work on the north shore and wisconsin is not the outskirts of chicago...sorry...thanks for playing.


PS your thread really pisses me off it you can not tell.

MostBeautifulGrlNTheWorld said:

...
play nice!

Christopher said:

yes daddy

UsexyMF said:

-> for you!

God... You know he asked a simple question... and all the smokers get upset? Why? I smoke... I answered the question without going into all the nasty stuff. I don't care one way or the other if you smoke or not... If your in my house then you have to deal with my smoke. If your in my car you have to deal with it. However if I am in your home, or car I will respect that.