vainandy said:

RodeoSchro said:

And after that, we're gonna make you listen to Britney Spears and Whitney Houston 24-7!

But seriously, tobacco should be outlawed. All it does is kill people or make them sick, and that's if you use it exactly like the manufacturer says you should.

Cigarettes are an addiction that has been legal for hundreds of years and since it has been legal for so long, there are millions of people addicted to them. If they become illegal, drug dealers will start selling them, they will be even more overpriced than they are now, and crime will really go up. There are a hell of a lot more people addicted to cigarettes than people addicted to crack. When cigarette smokers can't even satisfy their addiction legally, even the nicest ones will resort to crime. It's an addiction.

I hear you. And it's not like you can just outlaw them tomorrow. But tobacco should ultimately be made illegal.

If it were introduced as a product today, there is no way in the world it would be made legal for purchase and consumption.

So I think we need to figure out a way to rid our country of tobacco in, say, the next 10 - 20 years.

Do what it takes to help those that are addicted to it now to get off it, and do what we have to for those who grow it to switch to another crop. It'll be expensive in the short run but we'll save many times the $$$billions over the long haul.

dJJ said:

paniuroczy said:

Start smoking too. It's fun.

Why bother people smoking in their home? It's not right people should have the right to smoke in the privacy in their own homes.

Paniuroczy, finished your homework already?

RodeoSchro said:

vainandy said:

See, what did I tell y'all.

And after that, we're gonna make you listen to Britney Spears and Whitney Houston 24-7!

But seriously, tobacco should be outlawed. All it does is kill people or make them sick, and that's if you use it exactly like the manufacturer says you should.

That's what you think.

[Edited 9/4/11 14:31pm]

RodeoSchro said:

vainandy said:

Cigarettes are an addiction that has been legal for hundreds of years and since it has been legal for so long, there are millions of people addicted to them. If they become illegal, drug dealers will start selling them, they will be even more overpriced than they are now, and crime will really go up. There are a hell of a lot more people addicted to cigarettes than people addicted to crack. When cigarette smokers can't even satisfy their addiction legally, even the nicest ones will resort to crime. It's an addiction.

I hear you. And it's not like you can just outlaw them tomorrow. But tobacco should ultimately be made illegal.

If it were introduced as a product today, there is no way in the world it would be made legal for purchase and consumption.

So I think we need to figure out a way to rid our country of tobacco in, say, the next 10 - 20 years.

Do what it takes to help those that are addicted to it now to get off it, and do what we have to for those who grow it to switch to another crop. It'll be expensive in the short run but we'll save many times the $$$billions over the long haul.

Do you also think there should be a ban on alcohol?

And sugar and fat?

dJJ said:

RodeoSchro said:

I hear you. And it's not like you can just outlaw them tomorrow. But tobacco should ultimately be made illegal.

If it were introduced as a product today, there is no way in the world it would be made legal for purchase and consumption.

So I think we need to figure out a way to rid our country of tobacco in, say, the next 10 - 20 years.

Do what it takes to help those that are addicted to it now to get off it, and do what we have to for those who grow it to switch to another crop. It'll be expensive in the short run but we'll save many times the $$$billions over the long haul.

Do you also think there should be a ban on alcohol?

And sugar and fat?

Alcohol is way worse, if you ask me. My grandfather is an alcoholic, my neighbor's dad in poland is an alcoholic. So you wanna ban tobacco? Fine, we make it fair, ban everything "bad" for people and ban everything that can ever be abused. That includes alcohol, sugar, fat, medication, etc.

paniuroczy said:

dJJ said:

Do you also think there should be a ban on alcohol?

And sugar and fat?

Alcohol is way worse, if you ask me. My grandfather is an alcoholic, my neighbor's dad in poland is an alcoholic. So you wanna ban tobacco? Fine, we make it fair, ban everything "bad" for people and ban everything that can ever be abused. That includes alcohol, sugar, fat, medication, etc.

Medications is banned if not prescribed.

And alcohol, sure is bad for people. Wasn't it tried last century to ban it? Didn't work, did it?

dJJ said:

paniuroczy said:

Alcohol is way worse, if you ask me. My grandfather is an alcoholic, my neighbor's dad in poland is an alcoholic. So you wanna ban tobacco? Fine, we make it fair, ban everything "bad" for people and ban everything that can ever be abused. That includes alcohol, sugar, fat, medication, etc.

Medications is banned if not prescribed.

And alcohol, sure is bad for people. Wasn't it tried last century to ban it? Didn't work, did it?

Yeah but over the counter meds are used to make hard drugs like meth.

&Exactly. Banning tobacco is just stupid and will never work. Let people enjoy their tobacco.

paniuroczy said:

Start smoking too. It's fun.

Why bother people smoking in their home? It's not right people should have the right to smoke in the privacy in their own homes.

I have the right to not be bothered with second hand smoke, so who is more "right"? I don't want th damn place smelling like an ashtray If you want "smoker rights" then fight for them in court. Otherwise accept that most people don't smoke, it's a nasty habit and second hand smoke stinks to the heavens (you smokers don't realize this because you're immune to it)

SeventeenDayze said:

I have the right to not be bothered with second hand smoke, so who is more "right"? I don't want th damn place smelling like an ashtray If you want "smoker rights" then fight for them in court. Otherwise accept that most people don't smoke, it's a nasty habit and second hand smoke stinks to the heavens (you smokers don't realize this because you're immune to it)

I agree there should be places in public where people are not allowed to smoke, but people shouldn't fight for the right in court to smoke in their homes. It's only a nasty habit because people are programmed to believe such things .

paniuroczy said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I have the right to not be bothered with second hand smoke, so who is more "right"? I don't want th damn place smelling like an ashtray If you want "smoker rights" then fight for them in court. Otherwise accept that most people don't smoke, it's a nasty habit and second hand smoke stinks to the heavens (you smokers don't realize this because you're immune to it)

I agree there should be places in public where people are not allowed to smoke, but people shouldn't fight for the right in court to smoke in their homes. It's only a nasty habit because people are programmed to believe such things .

No smoker has the right to smell up another's home. If a smoker lives in an apartment, then tough. That smoker does not have a right to smoke in an apartment if smoking is going to smell up the apartments around, above and below it.

I don't care what you say, no smoker has the right to take away the enjoyment of another person's home.

RodeoSchro said:

paniuroczy said:

I agree there should be places in public where people are not allowed to smoke, but people shouldn't fight for the right in court to smoke in their homes. It's only a nasty habit because people are programmed to believe such things .

No smoker has the right to smell up another's home. If a smoker lives in an apartment, then tough. That smoker does not have a right to smoke in an apartment if smoking is going to smell up the apartments around, above and below it.

I don't care what you say, no smoker has the right to take away the enjoyment of another person's home.

That's the thing with living in apartments. There are tons of people living in the same building. Although one should have etiquette towards their other neighbors, you have to realize that there is gonna be some noise, there is gonna be smells (not just cigarettes) and plenty of other things that may bug you. But a non-smoker also shouldn't take up the enjoyment of another's home either. That's the way it works. If someone wants to smoke in their own home then they should have that right and people shouldn't be so pesky about it. It's fine if someone wants to talk to their neighbors about it, maybe figure out a way to compromise like maybe smoking in a room where the smell won't travel or something. But it's not fair to take away someone's right to smoke. Someone should be able to do that in their own home if they so please. If you live in an apartment, then tough because there is a large probability that you will have a lot of things to deal with when it comes to your neighbors, not just smoking.

paniuroczy said:

RodeoSchro said:

No smoker has the right to smell up another's home. If a smoker lives in an apartment, then tough. That smoker does not have a right to smoke in an apartment if smoking is going to smell up the apartments around, above and below it.

I don't care what you say, no smoker has the right to take away the enjoyment of another person's home.

That's the thing with living in apartments. There are tons of people living in the same building. Although one should have etiquette towards their other neighbors, you have to realize that there is gonna be some noise, there is gonna be smells (not just cigarettes) and plenty of other things that may bug you. But a non-smoker also shouldn't take up the enjoyment of another's home either. That's the way it works. If someone wants to smoke in their own home then they should have that right and people shouldn't be so pesky about it. It's fine if someone wants to talk to their neighbors about it, maybe figure out a way to compromise like maybe smoking in a room where the smell won't travel or something. But it's not fair to take away someone's right to smoke. Someone should be able to do that in their own home if they so please. If you live in an apartment, then tough because there is a large probability that you will have a lot of things to deal with when it comes to your neighbors, not just smoking.

Yes. I agree. Well said.

That's the problem... everyone has the right to clean air. So if you're enjoyment makes me and my kids choke in our own home and we can't breathe because of it then it should be illegal.

I don't know why people are bringing sugar and fat consumption into this. What's this constant attack on fat people? Seriously? When was the last time someone drinking beer affected you in your living room? Or a person eating donuts fucked with YOUR health in a direct way? I don't get these bullshit comparisons. I have asthma because of my mother's smoking when I was a kid.... she drank too, but that never did a thing to me. Her smoking sure did though, and the costs of medicines and steroids in order to control asthma are expensive!! Oh did I mention asthma is a chronic condition?

Smoke seeps through stuff. So that is the equivalent of someone owning a skunk and the skunk stunk up an entire building. You smelled skunk all day, it got in your clothes and it made you short of breath all the time... imagine trying to sleep, eat, or just watch TV because your neighbor wants to keep a cute skinky skunk for his enjoyment. OK>>> now you get what non smokers have to deal with.

Sure, smoke in YOUR house/apartment.... but if that stink enters my life in any way, we are gonna have problems. I don't want your stink in my home, just like you wouldn't want the smell of my shit in yours.

paintedlady said:

That's the problem... everyone has the right to clean air. So if you're enjoyment makes me and my kids choke in our own home and we can't breathe because of it then it should be illegal.

I don't know why people are bringing sugar and fat consumption into this. What's this constant attack on fat people? Seriously? When was the last time someone drinking beer affected you in your living room? Or a person eating donuts fucked with YOUR health in a direct way? I don't get these bullshit comparisons. I have asthma because of my mother's smoking when I was a kid.... she drank too, but that never did a thing to me. Her smoking sure did though, and the costs of medicines and steroids in order to control asthma are expensive!! Oh did I mention asthma is a chronic condition?

Smoke seeps through stuff. So that is the equivalent of someone owning a skunk and the skunk stunk up an entire building. You smelled skunk all day, it got in your clothes and it made you short of breath all the time... imagine trying to sleep, eat, or just watch TV because your neighbor wants to keep a cute skinky skunk for his enjoyment. OK>>> now you get what non smokers have to deal with.

Sure, smoke in YOUR house/apartment.... but if that stink enters my life in any way, we are gonna have problems. I don't want your stink in my home, just like you wouldn't want the smell of my shit in yours.

We brought it up because he said cigs kill people and should be banned, well, so does the things we mentioned... Didnt have anything to do with people being fat... Just some other things that "can" kill a person....

I get what your saying about "second hand" things, but when I brought it up thats not what was being talked about... It was a personal banning of things that can kill you yourself... I think..

[Edited 9/4/11 17:05pm]

paintedlady said:

That's the problem... everyone has the right to clean air. So if you're enjoyment makes me and my kids choke in our own home and we can't breathe because of it then it should be illegal.

I don't know why people are bringing sugar and fat consumption into this. What's this constant attack on fat people? Seriously? When was the last time someone drinking beer affected you in your living room? Or a person eating donuts fucked with YOUR health in a direct way? I don't get these bullshit comparisons. I have asthma because of my mother's smoking when I was a kid.... she drank too, but that never did a thing to me. Her smoking sure did though, and the costs of medicines and steroids in order to control asthma are expensive!! Oh did I mention asthma is a chronic condition?

Smoke seeps through stuff. So that is the equivalent of someone owning a skunk and the skunk stunk up an entire building. You smelled skunk all day, it got in your clothes and it made you short of breath all the time... imagine trying to sleep, eat, or just watch TV because your neighbor wants to keep a cute skinky skunk for his enjoyment. OK>>> now you get what non smokers have to deal with.

Sure, smoke in YOUR house/apartment.... but if that stink enters my life in any way, we are gonna have problems. I don't want your stink in my home, just like you wouldn't want the smell of my shit in yours.

You are right about that. However, I still do think negotiating between neighbours is the best solution. So, the smoker can smoke and the non-smokers isn't getting asmatic nor needs to rinse clothes/couches/curtains due to the nasty smoking smell.

btw, I'm a non-smoker, however have been smoking a lot.

Lol @ smokers acting like they're discriminated against.

paintedlady said:

That's the problem... everyone has the right to clean air. So if you're enjoyment makes me and my kids choke in our own home and we can't breathe because of it then it should be illegal.

HAHAHAHHAHAHA. Have you taken a good look around lately?

Yeah, let's ban cars, electrical cables, telephone cables, air conditioning systems and ducts, mold, cleaning fluids, building materials, paint, and plenty of other things. That means we also ban fatories that make many of our products that you and I use everyday without thinking twice about it. It may not seem as obvious but there are things that just as easily if not more so polute the environment. This is the price that we pay for living in such an industrialized world. There are plenty of odorless, colorless and tasteless pollutants in your home that are more detrimental to your health than cigarettes. Cigarette smoke is the least of your problems, then.

If you want truly, clean and fresh air go live in the middle of the rainforest or something because you won't find it around here.

smoothcriminal12 said:

Lol @ smokers acting like they're discriminated against.

That's not the issue. The issue is having the rights to be able to smoke in their own homes, basically if people are allowed to smoke that some people are even arguing. People should have the right to smoke if they want to. It has nothing to do with discrimination.

dJJ said:

paintedlady said:

That's the problem... everyone has the right to clean air. So if you're enjoyment makes me and my kids choke in our own home and we can't breathe because of it then it should be illegal.

I don't know why people are bringing sugar and fat consumption into this. What's this constant attack on fat people? Seriously? When was the last time someone drinking beer affected you in your living room? Or a person eating donuts fucked with YOUR health in a direct way? I don't get these bullshit comparisons. I have asthma because of my mother's smoking when I was a kid.... she drank too, but that never did a thing to me. Her smoking sure did though, and the costs of medicines and steroids in order to control asthma are expensive!! Oh did I mention asthma is a chronic condition?

Smoke seeps through stuff. So that is the equivalent of someone owning a skunk and the skunk stunk up an entire building. You smelled skunk all day, it got in your clothes and it made you short of breath all the time... imagine trying to sleep, eat, or just watch TV because your neighbor wants to keep a cute skinky skunk for his enjoyment. OK>>> now you get what non smokers have to deal with.

Sure, smoke in YOUR house/apartment.... but if that stink enters my life in any way, we are gonna have problems. I don't want your stink in my home, just like you wouldn't want the smell of my shit in yours.

You are right about that. However, I still do think negotiating between neighbours is the best solution. So, the smoker can smoke and the non-smokers isn't getting asmatic nor needs to rinse clothes/couches/curtains due to the nasty smoking smell.

btw, I'm a non-smoker, however have been smoking a lot.

Exactly, I mentioned that also in my first post. It is always best to respect your nieghbors forst and foremost.

In my community, all rent based housing is moving towards a total non-smoking ban. They ask you now if you are a smoker before you sign a lease. Most of the apartments -whether they are income based or regular rated are all moving towards that trend.

This is new thing now with landlords and even some condo asscociations ... in my building (which is set to be remodeled in the comming year) they ask that all tenants be pet and smoke free by the time of remodel, people are being forced to move if they want to keep their pets and smoke.

So Fido is banned also.

Times are changing... Rodeoschro isn't lying about smoking becoming illgal altogether. I think it may happen in the cities because of the asthma rates and the taxpayers that have to pay for sick kids because of asthma which is outta control in the big cities. $$$$

You'd be cool if they smoke crack, right?

Smoking's become just another stimulus for some people to create a massive, dramatic over-reaction.

You, Sir, are rather pathetic. *I'm blowing smoke in yer face*

paintedlady said:

dJJ said:

You are right about that. However, I still do think negotiating between neighbours is the best solution. So, the smoker can smoke and the non-smokers isn't getting asmatic nor needs to rinse clothes/couches/curtains due to the nasty smoking smell.

btw, I'm a non-smoker, however have been smoking a lot.

Exactly, I mentioned that also in my first post. It is always best to respect your nieghbors forst and foremost.

In my community, all rent based housing is moving towards a total non-smoking ban. They ask you now if you are a smoker before you sign a lease. Most of the apartments -whether they are income based or regular rated are all moving towards that trend.

This is new thing now with landlords and even some condo asscociations ... in my building (which is set to be remodeled in the comming year) they ask that all tenants be pet and smoke free by the time of remodel, people are being forced to move if they want to keep their pets and smoke.

So Fido is banned also.

Times are changing... Rodeoschro isn't lying about smoking becoming illgal altogether. I think it may happen in the cities because of the asthma rates and the taxpayers that have to pay for sick kids because of asthma which is outta control in the big cities. $$$$

In our complex, there are designated apartments for people with pets... I think they should do the same for smokers...

elmer said:

You'd be cool if they smoke crack, right?

Smoking's become just another stimulus for some people to create a massive, dramatic over-reaction.

You, Sir, are rather pathetic. *I'm blowing smoke in yer face*

paniuroczy said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Lol @ smokers acting like they're discriminated against.

That's not the issue. The issue is having the rights to be able to smoke in their own homes, basically if people are allowed to smoke that some people are even arguing. People should have the right to smoke if they want to. It has nothing to do with discrimination.

paniuroczy said:

paintedlady said:

That's the problem... everyone has the right to clean air. So if you're enjoyment makes me and my kids choke in our own home and we can't breathe because of it then it should be illegal.

HAHAHAHHAHAHA. Have you taken a good look around lately?

Yeah, let's ban cars, electrical cables, telephone cables, air conditioning systems and ducts, mold, cleaning fluids, building materials, paint, and plenty of other things. That means we also ban fatories that make many of our products that you and I use everyday without thinking twice about it. It may not seem as obvious but there are things that just as easily if not more so polute the environment. This is the price that we pay for living in such an industrialized world. There are plenty of odorless, colorless and tasteless pollutants in your home that are more detrimental to your health than cigarettes. Cigarette smoke is the least of your problems, then.

If you want truly, clean and fresh air go live in the middle of the rainforest or something because you won't find it around here.

Oh my. Unless you're running a meth lab in your home.... then I beg to differ. Cleaning products aren't THAT bad unless they are industrial strength.

But with all those examples you listed if someone gets sick, they can sue. I know no smoker wants to be made liable for a neighbor claiming threats to their well being and health because of some cigarette smoke.

Parents now get in trouble by doctors if their kids stay sick around smokers in the home. Cigarettes do have very harmful effects... but usually its the smoker that tends to be immune to its immediate effects. I know smokers who get everyone around them sick but they stay perfectly fine.

elmer said:

You'd be cool if they smoke crack, right?

Smoking's become just another stimulus for some people to create a massive, dramatic over-reaction.

You, Sir, are rather pathetic. *I'm blowing smoke in yer face*

Poor monkey.

SeventeenDayze said:

Unfortunately, both my neighbor across the hall and above me are smokers. In spite of the complaints to the landlord and a sign in the hallway that says smoking is prohibited in the building, they have started smoking indoors again. I cannot afford to move and I'm really sick of the smell. I have talked to the neighbor above me and she at first tried to say it was coming from the next building over (stupid considering the unit is VACANT!). I have complained to the landlord but he's not really involved in resolving the issue. What should I do? Should I buy air fresheners and put them in a box and write "free air fresheners" above the box? If I knew which smell irritated the hell out of my neighbors I would make sure I had that smell going 24/7!

[Edited 9/4/11 0:50am]

This is a matter for your city housing authority department not the same as the police (if your city has such a department) who can put the pressure on your landlord to enforce the building code.

tinaz said:

paintedlady said:

Exactly, I mentioned that also in my first post. It is always best to respect your nieghbors forst and foremost.

In my community, all rent based housing is moving towards a total non-smoking ban. They ask you now if you are a smoker before you sign a lease. Most of the apartments -whether they are income based or regular rated are all moving towards that trend.

This is new thing now with landlords and even some condo asscociations ... in my building (which is set to be remodeled in the comming year) they ask that all tenants be pet and smoke free by the time of remodel, people are being forced to move if they want to keep their pets and smoke.

So Fido is banned also.

Times are changing... Rodeoschro isn't lying about smoking becoming illgal altogether. I think it may happen in the cities because of the asthma rates and the taxpayers that have to pay for sick kids because of asthma which is outta control in the big cities. $$$$

In our complex, there are designated apartments for people with pets... I think they should do the same for smokers...

I think people should be able to have a pet within reason. I also think people should smoke in their home so long as it doesn't affect neighbors.

There are 3 eldery people in our units.. (12 in total) and I couldn't imagine those people not being allowed to have their pets or smoke a pipe/cigars. I don't mind the smell of my neighbors pipe smoke.

paintedlady said:

tinaz said:

In our complex, there are designated apartments for people with pets... I think they should do the same for smokers...

I think people should be able to have a pet within reason. I also think people should smoke in their home so long as it doesn't affect neighbors.

There are 3 eldery people in our units.. (12 in total) and I couldn't imagine those people not being allowed to have their pets or smoke a pipe/cigars. I don't mind the smell of my neighbors pipe smoke.

I think they do it for people who have allergies... This way if there was never a pet in that apartment, they wont have any problems..

Just sayin'

paintedlady said:

paniuroczy said:

HAHAHAHHAHAHA. Have you taken a good look around lately?

Yeah, let's ban cars, electrical cables, telephone cables, air conditioning systems and ducts, mold, cleaning fluids, building materials, paint, and plenty of other things. That means we also ban fatories that make many of our products that you and I use everyday without thinking twice about it. It may not seem as obvious but there are things that just as easily if not more so polute the environment. This is the price that we pay for living in such an industrialized world. There are plenty of odorless, colorless and tasteless pollutants in your home that are more detrimental to your health than cigarettes. Cigarette smoke is the least of your problems, then.

If you want truly, clean and fresh air go live in the middle of the rainforest or something because you won't find it around here.

Oh my. Unless you're running a meth lab in your home.... then I beg to differ. Cleaning products aren't THAT bad unless they are industrial strength.

But with all those examples you listed if someone gets sick, they can sue. I know no smoker wants to be made liable for a neighbor claiming threats to their well being and health because of some cigarette smoke.

Parents now get in trouble by doctors if their kids stay sick around smokers in the home. Cigarettes do have very harmful effects... but usually its the smoker that tends to be immune to its immediate effects. I know smokers who get everyone around them sick but they stay perfectly fine.

Well, you probably have radon-222 in your home, which is a colorless, tasteless, and odorless gas that accumulates in all basements and attics of homes due to the way that they are built and ventilated. It is the second most frequent 'cause' of lung cancer. This has nothing to do with meth labs . Maybe you should do some research, because there are a lot of things in your home that you don't even know exist but are detrimental to your health.

You can't sue if you get sick from these things. Well, yes technically you can but it doesn't make any sense to do so, and you won't get anywhere by doing that because that is the price of technology and the world we live in. A lot of things that we use frequently are detrimental to your health and cause pollution not only in your home but very much in the world in general. The world wasn't made with all these cities and technologies intact . These things are not actually natural and of course they 'affect' our health. That's the way these things work. Just like I said before, if you want truly clean air you would have to move to the rainforest or somewhere far away from all of this because everything around us may 'affect' our health and you can't really escape it. Cigarettes is just one out of the many things.

The reason that smokers are not as likely to get sick is because they are not worried. Negative and worrying thoughts are 100012893028X more detrimental to your health than cigarettes. It's mind over matter, what goes on in your mind affects your body and your wellbeing in every single way. You change your deep subconscious beliefs so that you are not affected by cigarettes but since so many people are trained to believe in the 'negative' and 'deadly' effects of smoking, then they are going to suffer from those beliefs. You have way more control over your reality than you realize but sadly too little people know this. You can get rid of your asthma but we are trained by society to believe we don't have control over these things.