cborgman said:

Efan said:

Fuck is wrong with you two?

A New Hope is awesome, Empire Strikes Back is even better, and every other Star Wars movie after that sucks to varying degrees.

Period.

i like jedi despite its several flaws. the heart that movie has makes up for a lot.

if lucas wants to "fix" star wars movies, he should re-write, re-shoot, and re-edit big portions of those soulless and tedious prequels and get them anywhere near par of even new hope

Lucas should try to fix Jedi by having something, anything, happen in those interminable first 45 minutes.

cborgman said:

imago said:

So, you agree with me that A New Hope sucks then, right?

I just find it dreadful. I never liked it. But again, I saw it on cable after I saw Empire in the movie theater, so to me, Empire was the ultimate intro to the Star Wars universe.

i wouldnt say it sucks, but it's not as good as empire or jedi. for one thing, lucas cant direct actors. that's why everyone is so wooden in the 4 he directed and not in the 2 he didnt. storywise, i also like empire and jedi much more

Would you say the performances in "THX 1138" or "American Graffiti" were wooden? If you really want a grasp on who Lucas was back at that time, watch his three excellent movies from 1971-1977. He was completely hands on on those early movies, really working hard on all points, and they much more show you who Lucas was as an artist.

And I wouldn't say ANY of the performances in Star Wars were wooden. Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher were the EXACT same lively personalities. Mark Hamil was exactly the same except he was able to get that father revelation scene where he could push it to emotional extreme. Alec Guiness was made into a stupid ghost. And Darth Vader was made into a joke (killing people magically right and left, even through a videoscreen) until the duel with Luke which was excellent.

A lot of people bring up Luke's whiny teenage character in Star Wars as a sign of bad acting. But the character is supposed to be a whiny teenager. And how is he acting any different in his scenes with Yoda, or in the snow battle in Empire. And how is the banter between Leia and Solo any different than their banter in Star Wars which is actually better written and integrated into the story.

I have no comment on Return of the Jedi, because NONE of the actors seem to even be trying in that movie. There is no personality on exhibit there. The whole thing seems to be acted with the conviction of a all expenses paid for convention appearance. And then surrounded by muppets and little furries with props that would be from a 1960's dinosaur b-movie.

Richard Marquand directed "Eye of the Needle" and "Jagged Edge": http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0549658/. There's no distinct authorship there. Check them out.

Irvin Kershner directed "The Eyes of Laura Mars" and "Robocop 2" http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0449984/. At least he did delve in the genre! I do think he was a good director of the acting. But no better than Lucas was on the first movie.

Efan said:

cborgman said:

i like jedi despite its several flaws. the heart that movie has makes up for a lot.

if lucas wants to "fix" star wars movies, he should re-write, re-shoot, and re-edit big portions of those soulless and tedious prequels and get them anywhere near par of even new hope

Lucas should try to fix Jedi by having something, anything, happen in those interminable first 45 minutes.

do you really trust the man who presented us with that ridiculous 20 minute podrace in phantom menace to fix that?

cborgman said:

Efan said:

Lucas should try to fix Jedi by having something, anything, happen in those interminable first 45 minutes.

do you really trust the man who presented us with that ridiculous 20 minute podrace in phantom menace to fix that?

No. I don't need any of the movies retooled.

Im kinda with cborg on this I still enjoy ROTJ, hell I can even deal with the ewoks during the battle cause they arent all teddy bear ish. I think the real problem is the music for the ewoks, its all too cutsy. The only song I liked was the nub nub song but Lucas took that out as soon as he could.

ufoclub said:

cborgman said:

i wouldnt say it sucks, but it's not as good as empire or jedi. for one thing, lucas cant direct actors. that's why everyone is so wooden in the 4 he directed and not in the 2 he didnt. storywise, i also like empire and jedi much more

Would you say the performances in "THX 1138" or "American Graffiti" were wooden? If you really want a grasp on who Lucas was back at that time, watch his three excellent movies from 1971-1977. He was completely hands on on those early movies, really working hard on all points, and they much more show you who Lucas was as an artist.

And I wouldn't say ANY of the performances in Star Wars were wooden. Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher were the EXACT same lively personalities. Mark Hamil was exactly the same except he was able to get that father revelation scene where he could push it to emotional extreme. Alec Guiness was made into a stupid ghost. And Darth Vader was made into a joke (killing people magically right and left, even through a videoscreen) until the duel with Luke which was excellent.

A lot of people bring up Luke's whiny teenage character in Star Wars as a sign of bad acting. But the character is supposed to be a whiny teenager. And how is he acting any different in his scenes with Yoda, or in the snow battle in Empire. And how is the banter between Leia and Solo any different than their banter in Star Wars which is actually better written and integrated into the story.

I have no comment on Return of the Jedi, because NONE of the actors seem to even be trying in that movie. There is no personality on exhibit there. The whole thing seems to be acted with the conviction of a all expenses paid for convention appearance. And then surrounded by muppets and little furries with props that would be from a 1960's dinosaur b-movie.

Richard Marquand directed "Eye of the Needle" and "Jagged Edge": http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0549658/. There's no distinct authorship there. Check them out.

Irvin Kershner directed "The Eyes of Laura Mars" and "Robocop 2" http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0449984/. At least he did delve in the genre! I do think he was a good director of the acting. But no better than Lucas was on the first movie.

well absolutely 1138 is wooden. it's about being forced to take drugs that kill emotion, so he wrote himself a fail-safe on that one and then cast duvall, who is one of the best actors of the last 5 decades as the only person who isnt on the wooden no-emotion drug

graffiti bores me. i couldnt finish it. it's too treacly and soggy with nostalgia for me to get into.

i have seen jagged edge and eyes of laura mars, and with the exception of maybe new hope, would say they are much better than any of lucas' direction

but seriously... look at their performances in star wars, then look at the performances in anything else. in the prequels, especially, when he was working with people who were already masters of their craft. natalie portman is pratically monotone in the prequels, yet had one of the most exciting screen debuts in recent film history in the professional. laim nisson looks like he is about to fall asleep at any given moment, ewan mcgregor seems like he has overdosed on xanax, and between the two of them, they have a plethora of thrilling performances in a number of movies. and samuel jackson? how on earth does anyone even manage to make samuel motherfucking jackson boring?? the man lights up every frame of every movie he has ever been in except the ones lucas directed.

I'm so glad that Lucas put in the storm trooper "Thriller" dance sequence into the new ROTJ.

lazycrockett said:

Im kinda with cborg on this I still enjoy ROTJ, hell I can even deal with the ewoks during the battle cause they arent all teddy bear ish. I think the real problem is the music for the ewoks, its all too cutsy. The only song I liked was the nub nub song but Lucas took that out as soon as he could.

yea, overcute music aside, the ewoks dont bother me. i have always rolled with the endor battle, as it interests me to see the juxtaposition of rag-tag versus organization, heart vs none, purpose vs smugness, and so on.

of course, all the ewok stuff that followed did push it way into overcute like the tv specials and the cartoon and toys... i think those are what annoyed us, not them in jedi

.

[Edited 9/7/11 11:26am]

[Edited 9/7/11 11:27am]

lazycrockett said:

StonedImmaculate said:

As for prequel changes...I think they removed the horrible Yoda puppet from Episode I and replaced him digitally.

Other than that, I've heard of none.

[Edited 9/1/11 22:52pm]

I would have kept Frank Oz's Yoda though out. Except for the dooku/yoda jedi scene. ESB yoda rocked.

me too

i will say this in defense and honor of george;

his was the first cycle or saga i ever saw as a kid, and it influenced me in a big way. long before i had ever heard of august wilson or horton foote, i knew the original trilogy. that he wrote a six parter and i am writing a five parter is probably linked more to his model than anyone elses.

there are a lot of common story basis between his and mine too; parent/child, embracing a dark side of life as an emotionally cancerous choice, and lotsa death.

he clearly was an influence.

but he's not a great writer, nor director. he's a great producer and a brilliant general story guy. i really think that's why he and spielberg together was so brilliant in the first 3 indy movies. spielburg is an amazing storyteller and knows how to work dialogue, timing, and actors.

but credit where its due; george is a big influence.

cborgman said:

ufoclub said:

Would you say the performances in "THX 1138" or "American Graffiti" were wooden? If you really want a grasp on who Lucas was back at that time, watch his three excellent movies from 1971-1977. He was completely hands on on those early movies, really working hard on all points, and they much more show you who Lucas was as an artist.

And I wouldn't say ANY of the performances in Star Wars were wooden. Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher were the EXACT same lively personalities. Mark Hamil was exactly the same except he was able to get that father revelation scene where he could push it to emotional extreme. Alec Guiness was made into a stupid ghost. And Darth Vader was made into a joke (killing people magically right and left, even through a videoscreen) until the duel with Luke which was excellent.

A lot of people bring up Luke's whiny teenage character in Star Wars as a sign of bad acting. But the character is supposed to be a whiny teenager. And how is he acting any different in his scenes with Yoda, or in the snow battle in Empire. And how is the banter between Leia and Solo any different than their banter in Star Wars which is actually better written and integrated into the story.

I have no comment on Return of the Jedi, because NONE of the actors seem to even be trying in that movie. There is no personality on exhibit there. The whole thing seems to be acted with the conviction of a all expenses paid for convention appearance. And then surrounded by muppets and little furries with props that would be from a 1960's dinosaur b-movie.

Richard Marquand directed "Eye of the Needle" and "Jagged Edge": http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0549658/. There's no distinct authorship there. Check them out.

Irvin Kershner directed "The Eyes of Laura Mars" and "Robocop 2" http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0449984/. At least he did delve in the genre! I do think he was a good director of the acting. But no better than Lucas was on the first movie.

well absolutely 1138 is wooden. it's about being forced to take drugs that kill emotion, so he wrote himself a fail-safe on that one and then cast duvall, who is one of the best actors of the last 5 decades as the only person who isnt on the wooden no-emotion drug

graffiti bores me. i couldnt finish it. it's too treacly and soggy with nostalgia for me to get into.

i have seen jagged edge and eyes of laura mars, and with the exception of maybe new hope, would say they are much better than any of lucas' direction

but seriously... look at their performances in star wars, then look at the performances in anything else. in the prequels, especially, when he was working with people who were already masters of their craft. natalie portman is pratically monotone in the prequels, yet had one of the most exciting screen debuts in recent film history in the professional. laim nisson looks like he is about to fall asleep at any given moment, ewan mcgregor seems like he has overdosed on xanax, and between the two of them, they have a plethora of thrilling performances in a number of movies. and samuel jackson? how on earth does anyone even manage to make samuel motherfucking jackson boring?? the man lights up every frame of every movie he has ever been in except the ones lucas directed.

American Graffiti and THX were treacly and wooden? Those were completely new wave naturalistic performances in art films. They were completely blowing away all the ancient live stage/theater vocabulary that most Hollywood movies are trapped in. And the strength of American Graffiti is it's just the opoosite of treacly and overly sentimental in an old school way like say "Shawshank Redemption" or "Color Purple" (which I do love as old fashioned well crafted movies) where everything is spelled out for you. It let's the characters and settings play out for themselves to create a mood, rather than fit the blocking and dialoge and lighting to project a mood. It doesn't even have a score to direct your emotional response. That's how untreacly it is. That's progressive. Eyes of Laura Mars and and Jagged Edge are completely conventional theatrical acting/plots as well. Yoda just wacked my leg with his walking stick and says, "Generic and old school, both of them, which is why an impression or effect they didn't create much of!"

I call complete bullshit on the claim of Lucas' of the 70's inability to direct a movie. He was a great PROGRESSIVE director, and more than that was an art film director (check his student films too), who's last personally crafted pastiche of past adventure serials mixed with contemporary fantasy art steamrolled into an unexpected pop eruption of success that unfortunately then turned into a big business to fund the feeding of many families and enterprises that had nothing to do with making a great movie thereafter.

I just watched "Casablanca" again, and so many cinematic stylistics of that era are what he atempts to roll into the Star Wars vocabulary, but I only think it worked with the first two movies, and only perfectly with the first one.

Efan said:

cborgman said:

i like jedi despite its several flaws. the heart that movie has makes up for a lot.

if lucas wants to "fix" star wars movies, he should re-write, re-shoot, and re-edit big portions of those soulless and tedious prequels and get them anywhere near par of even new hope

Lucas should try to fix Jedi by having something, anything, happen in those interminable first 45 minutes.

The Clone Wars animated series is a pretty darn good atonement for the flaws in the prequels (which did have their moments).

American Graffiti is the best teen movie of all time...

man, there has never been a better time to repost these:

Efan said:

cborgman said:

i wouldnt say it sucks, but it's not as good as empire or jedi. for one thing, lucas cant direct actors. that's why everyone is so wooden in the 4 he directed and not in the 2 he didnt. storywise, i also like empire and jedi much more

Fuck is wrong with you two?

A New Hope is awesome, Empire Strikes Back is even better, and every other Star Wars movie after that sucks to varying degrees.

Period.

The worst part of a New Hope is when Sir Alec Guiness(sp?) delivers the "you should learn the ways of the force" line to Luke. It's sooooooooooo poorly delivered that it's cringe worthy.

Harrison Ford is the only person is feels more organic. Princess Liea's "your stench" lines are pretty ok, but it just seems like they did all of the scenes in a single shot with abotu 5 manuites prep time to memorize their lines.

imago said:

Efan said:

Fuck is wrong with you two?

A New Hope is awesome, Empire Strikes Back is even better, and every other Star Wars movie after that sucks to varying degrees.

Period.

The worst part of a New Hope is when Sir Alec Guiness(sp?) delivers the "you should learn the ways of the force" line to Luke. It's sooooooooooo poorly delivered that it's cringe worthy.

Harrison Ford is the only person is feels more organic. Princess Liea's "your stench" lines are pretty ok, but it just seems like they did all of the scenes in a single shot with abotu 5 manuites prep time to memorize their lines.

Was Leia using Madonna's English accent in that movie, too?

NDRU said:

imago said:

The worst part of a New Hope is when Sir Alec Guiness(sp?) delivers the "you should learn the ways of the force" line to Luke. It's sooooooooooo poorly delivered that it's cringe worthy.

Harrison Ford is the only person is feels more organic. Princess Liea's "your stench" lines are pretty ok, but it just seems like they did all of the scenes in a single shot with abotu 5 manuites prep time to memorize their lines.

Was Leia using Madonna's English accent in that movie, too?

No, Karie Fischer's comedic deliveries were not that nuanced.

NDRU said:

imago said:

The worst part of a New Hope is when Sir Alec Guiness(sp?) delivers the "you should learn the ways of the force" line to Luke. It's sooooooooooo poorly delivered that it's cringe worthy.

Harrison Ford is the only person is feels more organic. Princess Liea's "your stench" lines are pretty ok, but it just seems like they did all of the scenes in a single shot with abotu 5 manuites prep time to memorize their lines.

Was Leia using Madonna's English accent in that movie, too?

:madonglish:

cborgman said:

purpledoveuk said:

cborgman said:

me too

I take it you mean the original yoda puppet over all others as opposed to keeping the Phantom menace puppet over CGI. That Phantom menace one looked totally different and I swear it had suffered a stroke

It did look different. They tried to youngify him, which didn't make a whole lot of sense since he was 900 years old and the PT was only, what, twenty or thirty years earlier?

Cerebus said:

purpledoveuk said:

cborgman said: I take it you mean the original yoda puppet over all others as opposed to keeping the Phantom menace puppet over CGI. That Phantom menace one looked totally different and I swear it had suffered a stroke

It did look different. They tried to youngify him, which didn't make a whole lot of sense since he was 900 years old and the PT was only, what, twenty or thirty years earlier?

Maybe he'd gotten into drugs? I certainly would have, living alone in a snake infested swamp

NDRU said:

Cerebus said:

It did look different. They tried to youngify him, which didn't make a whole lot of sense since he was 900 years old and the PT was only, what, twenty or thirty years earlier?

Maybe he'd gotten into drugs? I certainly would have, living alone in a snake infested swamp

Yeah. Trying to bury those feelings of loss and regret after the Empire whomped on the Jedi. Got to be some good shit in the mists of Dagobah.

Cerebus said:

NDRU said:

Maybe he'd gotten into drugs? I certainly would have, living alone in a snake infested swamp

Yeah. Trying to bury those feelings of loss and regret after the Empire whomped on the Jedi. Got to be some good shit in the mists of Dagobah.

anik't no weed like Dagobah Red Hair

in stead of THC it has THX!

[Edited 9/8/11 16:03pm]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Cerebus said:

Yeah. Trying to bury those feelings of loss and regret after the Empire whomped on the Jedi. Got to be some good shit in the mists of Dagobah.

anik't no weed like Dagobah Red Hair

instead of THC it has THX!

Yes

[img:$uid]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa202/psychovampgrl192386/pot%20head/yoda-smoking-weed.jpg[/img:$uid]

^I cant believe that fugly thing was allowed to be on screen.

lazycrockett said:

dannyd5050 said:

Mine got delivered today from play.com

Im not going out tonight so I may have a StarWarsathon.

I wonder if everyone gets the same movie frame?