paintedlady said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

In a lot of cases it's also not true, so that's surely not a valid reason to lump "them" into one group.

In MOST cases it actually is... this is why the welfare system, or (DTA) was established. Deadbeats run off and did not take care of their own this is why a little organization titled the DOR started suing men. It was a rampant issue that was out of control until the government stepped in to help custodial parents take care of children.

Nah, I wouldn't say in most cases it is....and even if it was, STILL no reason to lump them all in one category.

Ottensen said:

Genesia said:

Ivy, I'm not talking about welfare. I totally understand (and don't have a problem with) having a safety net. I look at that as being for the children even more than the mothers.

What I'm talking about are things that are not safety-net related - like paid maternity leave that is mandated by government, 4-year-old kindergarten, etc. Basically, euro-style programs that are aimed at baby boosting.

I understand what you're saying Genesia, but living in Europe I would hardly say that these programs aim at baby boosting rather than the strengthening the nuclear family, which we see as a good for the overall betterment of society. Men are also encouraged to take paternity limited leave in order to ease moms back into the workforce. Plus it allows the fathers to play an active and nurturing role in a chld's formative years. Kindergarten actually begins at age 2 here, and I'm not opposed to it all. This country is trying to ensure that the young will be academically prepared to compete globally, and I'm all for it.

They actually are about baby boosting (at least in part) - because of the low birth rates in most European nations.

That said, cradle to grave social programs are one reason I will never live in Europe. (Not that they'll miss me - I'm just sayin'. )

Genesia said:

Ottensen said:

I understand what you're saying Genesia, but living in Europe I would hardly say that these programs aim at baby boosting rather than the strengthening the nuclear family, which we see as a good for the overall betterment of society. Men are also encouraged to take paternity limited leave in order to ease moms back into the workforce. Plus it allows the fathers to play an active and nurturing role in a chld's formative years. Kindergarten actually begins at age 2 here, and I'm not opposed to it all. This country is trying to ensure that the young will be academically prepared to compete globally, and I'm all for it.

They actually are about baby boosting (at least in part) - because of the low birth rates in most European nations.

That said, cradle to grave social programs are one reason I will never live in Europe. (Not that they'll miss me - I'm just sayin'. )

Genesia you strike me as one of those rabid right wing ignorant Republicans who end up arguing against their interests due to believing the lies spouted by jumped up rednecks aka Tea party activists. I bet you don't even have a passport do you?!

Your society may be fine if you are rich and doing well, but if you lose your job and money then you are basically screwed and on the streets with no healthcare provision. That's not a 1st world way to live IMO and i'm prepared to pay extra taxes to have that safety blanket. Yes, it can be abused but that's no reason to stop it altogether.

[Edited 8/29/11 13:53pm]

here we go!....

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Genesia said:

They actually are about baby boosting (at least in part) - because of the low birth rates in most European nations.

That said, cradle to grave social programs are one reason I will never live in Europe. (Not that they'll miss me - I'm just sayin'. )

Genesia you strike me as one of those rabid right wing ignorant Republicans who end up arguing against their interests due to believing the lies spouted by jumped up rednecks aka Tea party activists. I bet you don't even have a passport do you?!

Wow. You really know how to charm a girl into answering, don't you?

Joyinrepatition said:

here we go!....

Oh, there won't be any of that - at least on my part. I know who's worth discussing things with.

And who isn't.

PurpleJedi said:

IMO - a single mom who is raising children solo due to unforseen circumstances (widow, abused wife, etc.) deserves praise for her efforts and as much help as the community can afford.

However, a single mom who is raising children solo because she thought it would be "cool" to have a baby or tried to trap a man, deserved not only to be castigated but controlled.

So I guess I'm just saying...it's on a case-by-case basis.

This is a dangerous mentality to have because no women I know had kids to "trap" a man.

NONE!!

Most women I know have sex with a guy who's willing..... and end up messing up on their birthcontrol (or the BC fails them) or they break up due to other circumstances after they concieve or give birth.

Most men fail to keep their promises and just take off... they just leave and forget about their children

No women plan on taking kids by themselves. Single parenthood is usually a situation that developed from a bad circumstances or poor descision.

Either way... any single parent willing to hold up the fort and not neglect their children should seek all compensation from the absentee parent. Its a FUCKING SHAME court houses are LOADED with deadbeats that fight to keep every nickle away from deserving children.

In my situation... a man BEGGED me to have his fucking kids. Trap him? That is usually NEVER the case and does not even need to be mentioned. Most men don't even have sex with such needy women. They run from delusional chicks like that.

Genesia said:

Joyinrepatition said:

here we go!....

Oh, there won't be any of that - at least on my part. I know who's worth discussing things with.

And who isn't.

Ok maybe I go too far Genesia, but you can be real provocative sometimes...

Genesia said:

Joyinrepatition said:

here we go!....

Oh, there won't be any of that - at least on my part. I know who's worth discussing things with.

And who isn't.

paintedlady said:

PurpleJedi said:

IMO - a single mom who is raising children solo due to unforseen circumstances (widow, abused wife, etc.) deserves praise for her efforts and as much help as the community can afford.

However, a single mom who is raising children solo because she thought it would be "cool" to have a baby or tried to trap a man, deserved not only to be castigated but controlled.

So I guess I'm just saying...it's on a case-by-case basis.

This is a dangerous mentality to have because no women I know had kids to "trap" a man.

NONE!!

Most women I know have sex with a guy who's willing..... and end up messing up on their birthcontrol (or the BC fails them) or they break up due to other circumstances after they concieve or give birth.

Most men fail to keep their promises and just take off... they just leave and forget about their children

No women plan on taking kids by themselves. Single parenthood is usually a situation that developed from a bad circumstances or poor descision.

Either way... any single parent willing to hold up the fort and not neglect their children should seek all compensation from the absentee parent. Its a FUCKING SHAME court houses are LOADED with deadbeats that fight to keep every nickle away from deserving children.

In my situation... a man BEGGED me to have his fucking kids. Trap him? That is usually NEVER the case and does not even need to be mentioned. Most men don't even have sex with such needy women. They run from delusional chicks like that.

Um...I like you, but I disagree COMPLETELY.

^ Smooth criminal....tell me your story, I get the feeling you want to get something across...and it would balance the argument....

[Edited 8/29/11 13:58pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Genesia said:

Oh, there won't be any of that - at least on my part. I know who's worth discussing things with.

And who isn't.

Ok maybe I go too far Genesia, but you can be real provocative sometimes...

Really? Exactly what did I say that was so provocative? Do you deny that most European countries have cradle to grave social programs? Do you deny that their birthrates are below replacement levels? Do you deny that these social programs are part of the reason the economies of many EU countries are in the crapper?

I didn't call anyone names. (As you did.) I didn't insult anyone directly. (As you did.) And yet, I'm the provocative one? Riiiiiiight.

Genesia said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Ok maybe I go too far Genesia, but you can be real provocative sometimes...

Really? Exactly what did I say that was so provocative? Do you deny that most European countries have cradle to grave social programs? NO...but i don't think its a bad thing.

Do you deny that their birthrates are below replacement levels? YES...same in the US now too..and all major Western economies. Do you deny that these social programs are part of the reason the economies of many EU countries are in the crapper? NO...the reason we are in the crapper is due to the massive bailouts for banks and excessive borrowing, living beyond means. You can have social programs without bankrupting the state..look at Norway and Sweden. If you haven't noticed America just lost its AAA credit rating and is in the shit too....and they have very limited social programmes.

I didn't call anyone names. (As you did.) I didn't insult anyone directly. (As you did.) And yet, I'm the provocative one? Riiiiiiight.

See in bold above!!

[Edited 8/29/11 14:03pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Smooth criminal....tell me your story, I get the feeling you want to get something across...and it would balance the argument....

[Edited 8/29/11 13:58pm]

Well, since you asked, here it is:

I have a story...it's about my Mom, whom I love dearly, but my story will not put her in a good light.

I am one of her four children, each from a different father. If it was up to my Mom the fathers would be out of the picture, mainly because they didn't marry her. Each child was "unplanned" except by my Mother (of course).

Twof of the four children have been kept from their father as they live in another country (the United States), and she refuses to grant them access.

My story is that my father and my mother broke up when she was pregnant with me when my father came to realize her "plan". He vowed to be there for me, and he has been. Not only has he raised me full time since I was two, but he also raised my sister who was NOT his for a number of years.

Prior to my Dad taking me full time, I pretty much lived with my Dad, as my Mom lived the rest of her life. When I was there (at my Mom's), I saw more of babysitters then I did my actually Mom.

Something important to note is that my Dad has never seen a penny from my Mom to contribute to the care of my sister and I. Nor has he seeked out all the money. And no, my Dad and Step Mom are anything but rich.

Had my Dad not fought for me, I may have ended up in British Columbia where my Mom intended to move us (at the ill advised advice of my Grandparents). I would have never known my Dad and I wouldn't be where or who I am now.

So yes, I am a bit upset when I see posts like this because I actually live in that environment and know first hand what actually goes on. My Mom is currently getting child support for her third child (without paying a dime to my Dad, mind you) and is currently blocking knowledge of her fourth to the fourth Dad, who of note is trying to find out of his existence. (whether he was born or not)

A lot of fathers are put in a bad situation because the system is stacked against them. Either they can't afford the payments or they are completely blocked access to their children (or have limited access).

I only hope is that this will show people that not everything is the fault of the father. Yes, children are used simply as chess pieces in relationships sometimes. That's the sad truth of it all. All or most) of my siblings on my Mom's side were used as pawns to keep relationships alive. Obviously it didn't work out.

That is all.

Genesia said:

Ottensen said:

I understand what you're saying Genesia, but living in Europe I would hardly say that these programs aim at baby boosting rather than the strengthening the nuclear family, which we see as a good for the overall betterment of society. Men are also encouraged to take paternity limited leave in order to ease moms back into the workforce. Plus it allows the fathers to play an active and nurturing role in a chld's formative years. Kindergarten actually begins at age 2 here, and I'm not opposed to it all. This country is trying to ensure that the young will be academically prepared to compete globally, and I'm all for it.

They actually are about baby boosting (at least in part) - because of the low birth rates in most European nations.

That said, cradle to grave social programs are one reason I will never live in Europe. (Not that they'll miss me - I'm just sayin'. )

Fair enough. Because the lack of foresight and value that is placed on the family unit, and education of our citizens (so that they can meet the rising challenges of the global marketplace) are primary reasons why I will never return to the United States.

Eye no many good decent women that r now divorced and prefer being single mothers and do a better job without a drunken or violent slob in the house....My problem is with the young tracksuit wearing baseball cap wearing cider in the street drinking girl of 15/16 who doesnt want 2 work gets pregnant only 2 get a council house and wants me 2 pay 4 her upkeep 4 the next 20 or more years with no intention of finding work(ever)!!!!!!....They should all b sterilized!!Im sick of paying 4 the little shits....The mothers and there brat...

smoothcriminal12 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Smooth criminal....tell me your story, I get the feeling you want to get something across...and it would balance the argument....

[Edited 8/29/11 13:58pm]

Well, since you asked, here it is:

I have a story...it's about my Mom, whom I love dearly, but my story will not put her in a good light.

I am one of her four children, each from a different father. If it was up to my Mom the fathers would be out of the picture, mainly because they didn't marry her. Each child was "unplanned" except by my Mother (of course).

Twof of the four children have been kept from their father as they live in another country (the United States), and she refuses to grant them access.

My story is that my father and my mother broke up when she was pregnant with me when my father came to realize her "plan". He vowed to be there for me, and he has been. Not only has he raised me full time since I was two, but he also raised my sister who was NOT his for a number of years.

Prior to my Dad taking me full time, I pretty much lived with my Dad, as my Mom lived the rest of her life. When I was there (at my Mom's), I saw more of babysitters then I did my actually Mom.

Something important to note is that my Dad has never seen a penny from my Mom to contribute to the care of my sister and I. Nor has he seeked out all the money. And no, my Dad and Step Mom are anything but rich.

Had my Dad not fought for me, I may have ended up in British Columbia where my Mom intended to move us (at the ill advised advice of my Grandparents). I would have never known my Dad and I wouldn't be where or who I am now.

So yes, I am a bit upset when I see posts like this because I actually live in that environment and know first hand what actually goes on. My Mom is currently getting child support for her third child (without paying a dime to my Dad, mind you) and is currently blocking knowledge of her fourth to the fourth Dad, who of note is trying to find out of his existence. (whether he was born or not)

A lot of fathers are put in a bad situation because the system is stacked against them. Either they can't afford the payments or they are completely blocked access to their children (or have limited access).

I only hope is that this will show people that not everything is the fault of the father. Yes, children are used simply as chess pieces in relationships sometimes. That's the sad truth of it all. All or most) of my siblings on my Mom's side were used as pawns to keep relationships alive. Obviously it didn't work out.

That is all.

Interesting point and you've seen it first hand so that's direct experience...thx for sharing..

davetherave6767 said:

Eye no many good decent women that r now divorced and prefer being single mothers and do a better job without a drunken or violent slob in the house....My problem is with the young tracksuit wearing baseball cap wearing cider in the street drinking girl of 15/16 who doesnt want 2 work gets pregnant only 2 get a council house and wants me 2 pay 4 her upkeep 4 the next 20 or more years with no intention of finding work(ever)!!!!!!....They should all b sterilized!!Im sick of paying 4 the little shits....The mothers and there brat...

That's true Dave, there are women that apparently deliberately get preggers to get a council house....but still the guy has some responsibility as he came LOL...if u don't trust they are on the pill then withdraw before exploding

[Edited 8/29/11 14:43pm]

TheFreakerFantastic said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Well, since you asked, here it is:

I have a story...it's about my Mom, whom I love dearly, but my story will not put her in a good light.

I am one of her four children, each from a different father. If it was up to my Mom the fathers would be out of the picture, mainly because they didn't marry her. Each child was "unplanned" except by my Mother (of course).

Twof of the four children have been kept from their father as they live in another country (the United States), and she refuses to grant them access.

My story is that my father and my mother broke up when she was pregnant with me when my father came to realize her "plan". He vowed to be there for me, and he has been. Not only has he raised me full time since I was two, but he also raised my sister who was NOT his for a number of years.

Prior to my Dad taking me full time, I pretty much lived with my Dad, as my Mom lived the rest of her life. When I was there (at my Mom's), I saw more of babysitters then I did my actually Mom.

Something important to note is that my Dad has never seen a penny from my Mom to contribute to the care of my sister and I. Nor has he seeked out all the money. And no, my Dad and Step Mom are anything but rich.

Had my Dad not fought for me, I may have ended up in British Columbia where my Mom intended to move us (at the ill advised advice of my Grandparents). I would have never known my Dad and I wouldn't be where or who I am now.

So yes, I am a bit upset when I see posts like this because I actually live in that environment and know first hand what actually goes on. My Mom is currently getting child support for her third child (without paying a dime to my Dad, mind you) and is currently blocking knowledge of her fourth to the fourth Dad, who of note is trying to find out of his existence. (whether he was born or not)

A lot of fathers are put in a bad situation because the system is stacked against them. Either they can't afford the payments or they are completely blocked access to their children (or have limited access).

I only hope is that this will show people that not everything is the fault of the father. Yes, children are used simply as chess pieces in relationships sometimes. That's the sad truth of it all. All or most) of my siblings on my Mom's side were used as pawns to keep relationships alive. Obviously it didn't work out.

That is all.

Interesting point and you've seen it first hand so that's direct experience...thx for sharing..

Anytime.

smoothcriminal12 said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Smooth criminal....tell me your story, I get the feeling you want to get something across...and it would balance the argument....

[Edited 8/29/11 13:58pm]

Well, since you asked, here it is:

I have a story...it's about my Mom, whom I love dearly, but my story will not put her in a good light.

I am one of her four children, each from a different father. If it was up to my Mom the fathers would be out of the picture, mainly because they didn't marry her. Each child was "unplanned" except by my Mother (of course).

Twof of the four children have been kept from their father as they live in another country (the United States), and she refuses to grant them access.

My story is that my father and my mother broke up when she was pregnant with me when my father came to realize her "plan". He vowed to be there for me, and he has been. Not only has he raised me full time since I was two, but he also raised my sister who was NOT his for a number of years.

Prior to my Dad taking me full time, I pretty much lived with my Dad, as my Mom lived the rest of her life. When I was there (at my Mom's), I saw more of babysitters then I did my actually Mom.

Something important to note is that my Dad has never seen a penny from my Mom to contribute to the care of my sister and I. Nor has he seeked out all the money. And no, my Dad and Step Mom are anything but rich.

Had my Dad not fought for me, I may have ended up in British Columbia where my Mom intended to move us (at the ill advised advice of my Grandparents). I would have never known my Dad and I wouldn't be where or who I am now.

So yes, I am a bit upset when I see posts like this because I actually live in that environment and know first hand what actually goes on. My Mom is currently getting child support for her third child (without paying a dime to my Dad, mind you) and is currently blocking knowledge of her fourth to the fourth Dad, who of note is trying to find out of his existence. (whether he was born or not)

A lot of fathers are put in a bad situation because the system is stacked against them. Either they can't afford the payments or they are completely blocked access to their children (or have limited access).

I only hope is that this will show people that not everything is the fault of the father. Yes, children are used simply as chess pieces in relationships sometimes. That's the sad truth of it all. All or most) of my siblings on my Mom's side were used as pawns to keep relationships alive. Obviously it didn't work out.

That is all.

You case is a unusual case.

But I am NOT wrong... I said MOST not ALL.

The numbers do not lie.

Why are the courts in the favor of the mothers?

I'll tell you why... because of men like MY FATHER who fuck women, have kids, and leave!

My dad married my mom, but he was a rolling stone and I have siblings from God knows who and where.

On ANY given day at the probate courts you will see courtrooms on over flow with men being dragged into courts because they refuse to supply ADEQUATE support for their own children.

Women don't go around trapping men. I didn't. Shit my baby daddy begged me to have his kids and when shit got hard for him he split. I loved that man, and he claimed to love me, but I would have NEVER of had his kids if he didn't ask me to with all these fucked up promises.

The truth is most men fall out of love for what ever reason, or the mother end up pregnant...

doesn't matter.... most men BITCH MOAN and COMPLAIN of how much support they have to pay.

Which is fair but they claim not, they rather toss pennies to the mothers and put their children on back burners until the child has a birthday or on Christmas.

Well fuck that.... this is why women/or custodial parents sue because non-custodial parents go on to live their lives spending their money on all this shit instead of focusing their money on the child they claim to love.

OH and BTW>>>> most fathers that bitch about these greedy bitches in their wallets go on to have MORE kids!!! WTF!?

I can't tell you how much this disgusts me... I live this shit daily and I for one am happy I sued the shit outta that asshole deadbeat.

Most men don't say... "Oh hey here 20% of my paycheck for the kid(s) "

No those men get pissed off and complain. Don't want babies? Don't fuck that bitch you claim that "trapped you" with out a fucking condom.

rant over.

ranting bitch edits

[Edited 8/29/11 14:48pm]

davetherave6767 said:

Eye no many good decent women that r now divorced and prefer being single mothers and do a better job without a drunken or violent slob in the house....My problem is with the young tracksuit wearing baseball cap wearing cider in the street drinking girl of 15/16 who doesnt want 2 work gets pregnant only 2 get a council house and wants me 2 pay 4 her upkeep 4 the next 20 or more years with no intention of finding work(ever)!!!!!!....They should all b sterilized!!Im sick of paying 4 the little shits....The mothers and there brat...

indeed dave, to some it's a life choice and it's wrong mate.But there lie's the problem with British society...Something For Nothing

Did i mention the immigrants being responsible for the wage decline and job loss for the 'less competitive shall we say' in the lower end jobs, hence the amount of fathers losing their jobs further perpetuating this problem ya da yada ya...

Joyinrepatition said:

davetherave6767 said:

Eye no many good decent women that r now divorced and prefer being single mothers and do a better job without a drunken or violent slob in the house....My problem is with the young tracksuit wearing baseball cap wearing cider in the street drinking girl of 15/16 who doesnt want 2 work gets pregnant only 2 get a council house and wants me 2 pay 4 her upkeep 4 the next 20 or more years with no intention of finding work(ever)!!!!!!....They should all b sterilized!!Im sick of paying 4 the little shits....The mothers and there brat...

indeed dave, to some it's a life choice and it's wrong mate.But there lie's the problem with British society...Something For Nothing

Did i mention the immigrants being responsible for the wage decline and job loss for the 'less competitive shall we say' in the lower end jobs, hence the amount of fathers losing their jobs further perpetuating this problem ya da yada ya...

British Society....something 4 nothing O lord:disbelief:

Joyinrepatition said:

davetherave6767 said:

Eye no many good decent women that r now divorced and prefer being single mothers and do a better job without a drunken or violent slob in the house....My problem is with the young tracksuit wearing baseball cap wearing cider in the street drinking girl of 15/16 who doesnt want 2 work gets pregnant only 2 get a council house and wants me 2 pay 4 her upkeep 4 the next 20 or more years with no intention of finding work(ever)!!!!!!....They should all b sterilized!!Im sick of paying 4 the little shits....The mothers and there brat...

indeed dave, to some it's a life choice and it's wrong mate.But there lie's the problem with British society...Something For Nothing

Did i mention the immigrants being responsible for the wage decline and job loss for the 'less competitive shall we say' in the lower end jobs, hence the amount of fathers losing their jobs further perpetuating this problem ya da yada ya...

I'll take teen mom's over anchor babies anyday. IMHO. I hate people that lure people to have kids just to stay in the country and use these children as meal tickets for government assistance and housing!

paintedlady said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Well, since you asked, here it is:

I have a story...it's about my Mom, whom I love dearly, but my story will not put her in a good light.

I am one of her four children, each from a different father. If it was up to my Mom the fathers would be out of the picture, mainly because they didn't marry her. Each child was "unplanned" except by my Mother (of course).

Twof of the four children have been kept from their father as they live in another country (the United States), and she refuses to grant them access.

My story is that my father and my mother broke up when she was pregnant with me when my father came to realize her "plan". He vowed to be there for me, and he has been. Not only has he raised me full time since I was two, but he also raised my sister who was NOT his for a number of years.

Prior to my Dad taking me full time, I pretty much lived with my Dad, as my Mom lived the rest of her life. When I was there (at my Mom's), I saw more of babysitters then I did my actually Mom.

Something important to note is that my Dad has never seen a penny from my Mom to contribute to the care of my sister and I. Nor has he seeked out all the money. And no, my Dad and Step Mom are anything but rich.

Had my Dad not fought for me, I may have ended up in British Columbia where my Mom intended to move us (at the ill advised advice of my Grandparents). I would have never known my Dad and I wouldn't be where or who I am now.

So yes, I am a bit upset when I see posts like this because I actually live in that environment and know first hand what actually goes on. My Mom is currently getting child support for her third child (without paying a dime to my Dad, mind you) and is currently blocking knowledge of her fourth to the fourth Dad, who of note is trying to find out of his existence. (whether he was born or not)

A lot of fathers are put in a bad situation because the system is stacked against them. Either they can't afford the payments or they are completely blocked access to their children (or have limited access).

I only hope is that this will show people that not everything is the fault of the father. Yes, children are used simply as chess pieces in relationships sometimes. That's the sad truth of it all. All or most) of my siblings on my Mom's side were used as pawns to keep relationships alive. Obviously it didn't work out.

That is all.

You case is a unusual case.

But I am NOT wrong... I said MOST not ALL.

The numbers do not lie.

Why are the courts in the favor of the mothers?

I'll tell you why... because of men like MY FATHER who fuck women, have kids, and leave!

My dad married my mom, but he was a rolling stone and I have siblings from God knows who and where.

On ANY given day at the probate courts you will see courtrooms on over flow with men being dragged into courts because they refuse to supply ADEQUATE support for their own children.

Women don't go around trapping men. I didn't. Shit my baby daddy begged me to have his kids and when shit got hard for him he split. I loved that man, and he claimed to love me, but I would have NEVER of had his kids if he didn't ask me to with all these fucked up promises.

The truth is most men fall out of love for what ever reason, or the mother end up pregnant...

doesn't matter.... most men BITCH MOAN and COMPLAIN of how much support they have to pay.

Which is fair but they claim not, they rather toss pennies to the mothers and put their children on back burners until the child has a birthday or on Christmas.

Well fuck that.... this is why women/or custodial parents sue because non-custodial parents go on to live their lives spending their money on all this shit instead of focusing their money on the child they claim to love.

OH and BTW>>>> most fathers that bitch about these greedy bitches in their wallets go on to have MORE kids!!! WTF!?

I can't tell you how much this disgusts me... I live this shit daily and I for one am happy I sued the shit outta that asshole deadbeat.

Most men don't say... "Oh hey here 20% of my paycheck for the kid(s) "

No those men get pissed off and complain. Don't want babies? Don't fuck that bitch you claim that "trapped you" with out a fucking condom.

rant over.

ranting bitch edits

[Edited 8/29/11 14:48pm]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but as you said that my example is rare, yours is as well. Just remember that there are varying degrees to both extremes and that everyone has their own truth.

To be quite honest, I find that it's not always the fault of the "deadbeat father", and my opinion is not limited to my own experience. There are a lot of things left unsaid by single moms looking to garner sympathy for their situation and to bring down the father (and I'm in NO way saying that this applies to your case.)

I respect your position, but I disagree and I think that there's more to the story then what the media tells us and what the numbers are saying. Stats are manipulated all the time to fit the cause, so forgive me if I'm leery of the "stats".

Again, like I said, the system is stacked against fathers, just because the mother is granted custody, doesn't make her the better parent (again, saying nothing about your case).

Sorry to hear about your experience but at least we can both relate to each other somewhat.

smoothcriminal12 said:

paintedlady said:

You case is a unusual case.

But I am NOT wrong... I said MOST not ALL.

The numbers do not lie.

Why are the courts in the favor of the mothers?

I'll tell you why... because of men like MY FATHER who fuck women, have kids, and leave!

My dad married my mom, but he was a rolling stone and I have siblings from God knows who and where.

On ANY given day at the probate courts you will see courtrooms on over flow with men being dragged into courts because they refuse to supply ADEQUATE support for their own children.

Women don't go around trapping men. I didn't. Shit my baby daddy begged me to have his kids and when shit got hard for him he split. I loved that man, and he claimed to love me, but I would have NEVER of had his kids if he didn't ask me to with all these fucked up promises.

The truth is most men fall out of love for what ever reason, or the mother end up pregnant...

doesn't matter.... most men BITCH MOAN and COMPLAIN of how much support they have to pay.

Which is fair but they claim not, they rather toss pennies to the mothers and put their children on back burners until the child has a birthday or on Christmas.

Well fuck that.... this is why women/or custodial parents sue because non-custodial parents go on to live their lives spending their money on all this shit instead of focusing their money on the child they claim to love.

OH and BTW>>>> most fathers that bitch about these greedy bitches in their wallets go on to have MORE kids!!! WTF!?

I can't tell you how much this disgusts me... I live this shit daily and I for one am happy I sued the shit outta that asshole deadbeat.

Most men don't say... "Oh hey here 20% of my paycheck for the kid(s) "

No those men get pissed off and complain. Don't want babies? Don't fuck that bitch you claim that "trapped you" with out a fucking condom.

rant over.

ranting bitch edits

[Edited 8/29/11 14:48pm]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but as you said that my example is rare, yours is as well. Just remember that there are varying degrees to both extremes and that everyone has their own truth.

To be quite honest, I find that it's not always the fault of the "deadbeat father", and my opinion is not limited to my own experience. There are a lot of things left unsaid by single moms looking to garner sympathy for their situation and to bring down the father (and I'm in NO way saying that this applies to your case.)

I respect your position, but I disagree and I think that there's more to the story then what the media tells us and what the numbers are saying. Stats are manipulated all the time to fit the cause, so forgive me if I'm leery of the "stats".

Again, like I said, the system is stacked against fathers, just because the mother is granted custody, doesn't make her the better parent (again, saying nothing about your case).

Sorry to hear about your experience but at least we can both relate to each other somewhat.

My case is unfortunately typical... I know many in my position who HAD to sue in order to get money for their children.

I got more money than usual though. I am one of the lucky ones. Most women do not even get enough to cover childcare. Its a big waste of time for the women in most cases and most mothers are left to work two and three jobs just to keep food on the table. So my case is rare in that respect.

I know you are not trying to tear me down in any way, nor I am with you. But many men do not want pay THAT much support. Most want to live freely and give the mother what ever is left over which is never enough.

Children are expensive. And I never said that these men do not love their kids. Its just that they have no real understanding of just how much more expensive it is to pay for two households instead of one.

That is what a man decides to do when he leaves his wife or decides not to marry and raise the children.

The smarter men fight for custody. Where I live fathers have rights and are considered more fairly than in other states in the US.

A real reason why most women get more consideration is because many wives put aside their educations/jobs as they bear and begin to raise children. The fathers usually work and assume full financial responsibility. Since most mothers are the nurturers the courts usually decide that the custody of the children remains with the mothers (caretakers) and the fathers bear the brunt of the finacial responsibility. Most men do not have to slow or stop work when their babies are born, this affects their decision.

Traditional roles sorta set up court rulings so to speak. Now, things are changing, more fathers stay home and more women earn more money then men because women tend to be just as if not more educated in many cases.

So things are changing to reflect the roles of men and women in families. That change is slow and many people are better off just staying together.

I always tell men I know to fight for custody of their children if I think they are good fathers.

If the man is the better parent he should have custody... too many people think that the children should automatically be raised by the mothers. I know some kids who would be better off with their fathers.

But to the OP... I do think society at large view single mothers as deviants. I know school teachers have been the worst offenders ( in my experience) if they don't see a wedding ring on your finger.

paintedlady said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm sorry to hear about your experience, but as you said that my example is rare, yours is as well. Just remember that there are varying degrees to both extremes and that everyone has their own truth.

To be quite honest, I find that it's not always the fault of the "deadbeat father", and my opinion is not limited to my own experience. There are a lot of things left unsaid by single moms looking to garner sympathy for their situation and to bring down the father (and I'm in NO way saying that this applies to your case.)

I respect your position, but I disagree and I think that there's more to the story then what the media tells us and what the numbers are saying. Stats are manipulated all the time to fit the cause, so forgive me if I'm leery of the "stats".

Again, like I said, the system is stacked against fathers, just because the mother is granted custody, doesn't make her the better parent (again, saying nothing about your case).

Sorry to hear about your experience but at least we can both relate to each other somewhat.

My case is unfortunately typical... I know many in my position who HAD to sue in order to get money for their children.

I got more money than usual though. I am one of the lucky ones. Most women do not even get enough to cover childcare. Its a big waste of time for the women in most cases and most mothers are left to work two and three jobs just to keep food on the table. So my case is rare in that respect.

I know you are not trying to tear me down in any way, nor I am with you. But many men do not want pay THAT much support. Most want to live freely and give the mother what ever is left over which is never enough.

Children are expensive. And I never said that these men do not love their kids. Its just that they have no real understanding of just how much more expensive it is to pay for two households instead of one.

That is what a man decides to do when he leaves his wife or decides not to marry and raise the children.

The smarter men fight for custody. Where I live fathers have rights and are considered more fairly than in other states in the US.

A real reason why most women get more consideration is because many wives put aside their educations/jobs as they bear and begin to raise children. The fathers usually work and assume full financial responsibility. Since most mothers are the nurturers the courts usually decide that the custody of the children remains with the mothers (caretakers) and the fathers bear the brunt of the finacial responsibility. Most men do not have to slow or stop work when their babies are born, this affects their decision.

Traditional roles sorta set up court rulings so to speak. Now, things are changing, more fathers stay home and more women earn more money then men because women tend to be just as if not more educated in many cases.

So things are changing to reflect the roles of men and women in families. That change is slow and many people are better off just staying together.

I am too lazy to respond so I will now post an awkward gif.

Genesia said:

Vendetta1 said:

I can't post like I want to from my cell but Genesia welfare is not a breeding incentivesve. I was on welfare when my first son was a baby and I wanted nothing more than to get off of it.

Ivy, I'm not talking about welfare. I totally understand (and don't have a problem with) having a safety net. I look at that as being for the children even more than the mothers.

What I'm talking about are things that are not safety-net related - like paid maternity leave that is mandated by government, 4-year-old kindergarten, etc. Basically, euro-style programs that are aimed at baby boosting.

I'm sorry I misunderstood. When I saw you mention the government, I assumed you were speaking about welfare.

smoothcriminal12 said:

paintedlady said:

My case is unfortunately typical... I know many in my position who HAD to sue in order to get money for their children.

I got more money than usual though. I am one of the lucky ones. Most women do not even get enough to cover childcare. Its a big waste of time for the women in most cases and most mothers are left to work two and three jobs just to keep food on the table. So my case is rare in that respect.

I know you are not trying to tear me down in any way, nor I am with you. But many men do not want pay THAT much support. Most want to live freely and give the mother what ever is left over which is never enough.

Children are expensive. And I never said that these men do not love their kids. Its just that they have no real understanding of just how much more expensive it is to pay for two households instead of one.

That is what a man decides to do when he leaves his wife or decides not to marry and raise the children.

The smarter men fight for custody. Where I live fathers have rights and are considered more fairly than in other states in the US.

A real reason why most women get more consideration is because many wives put aside their educations/jobs as they bear and begin to raise children. The fathers usually work and assume full financial responsibility. Since most mothers are the nurturers the courts usually decide that the custody of the children remains with the mothers (caretakers) and the fathers bear the brunt of the finacial responsibility. Most men do not have to slow or stop work when their babies are born, this affects their decision.

Traditional roles sorta set up court rulings so to speak. Now, things are changing, more fathers stay home and more women earn more money then men because women tend to be just as if not more educated in many cases.

So things are changing to reflect the roles of men and women in families. That change is slow and many people are better off just staying together.

I am too lazy to respond so I will now post an awkward gif.

Gotta respect a lazy moment. Kick your feet up man.

paintedlady said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I am too lazy to respond so I will now post an awkward gif.

Gotta respect a lazy moment. Kick your feet up man.

I knew you'd understand.