PurpleJedi said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

race is a protected class age is not (except in employment and then it is only over 40)

discrimination sure... but it seems to be legal discrimination.

I think (if I am interpreting her correctly) that Erin's outrage stems from the fact that this so-called "selective discrimination" could theoretically lead to other types. So, for example, (I'm pretending to read your mind Erin, but the Force is not strong with me lately)...if we allow "children under 6" to be banned arbitrarily from a restaurant, what's to say that another shopkeeper can ban Hispanics from his bar because other patrons may be offended at us speaking in Spanish?

If that's the reasoning, then I undestand the reluctance to allow this policy.

HOWEVER, as ONLYNDAUSA just stated....race is legally protected, age is not.

That being the case, if we eliminate age discrimination, then it goes across the board. I can take my 12 year old son to Vegas gambling & drinking with me, or get him a hooker as was the old "rite of passage" in the "old country" for the generations of men in my family before my dad.

Or what about banning people with disabilities because they might either (depending on their disability) get loud too or not be "nice" to look at. I would NEVER go to a restaurant that bans children. I don't even have children and never wanted any in my life (contrary to the men who I have been with ), but I don't get it why people cannot see that it is natural that children make some noise sometimes, be it in planes or restaurants. What's the big deal about that? Cars make a lot more noise. People sit outside in front of restuarants all the time and cars are passing by. Not even to mention the pollution of the cars. We people from the northern countries really treat children in a way as if they are disturbing our peace and not as if they are our future .

JustErin said:

PurpleJedi said:

I think (if I am interpreting her correctly) that Erin's outrage stems from the fact that this so-called "selective discrimination" could theoretically lead to other types. So, for example, (I'm pretending to read your mind Erin, but the Force is not strong with me lately)...if we allow "children under 6" to be banned arbitrarily from a restaurant, what's to say that another shopkeeper can ban Hispanics from his bar because other patrons may be offended at us speaking in Spanish?

If that's the reasoning, then I undestand the reluctance to allow this policy.

HOWEVER, as ONLYNDAUSA just stated....race is legally protected, age is not.

That being the case, if we eliminate age discrimination, then it goes across the board. I can take my 12 year old son to Vegas gambling & drinking with me, or get him a hooker as was the old "rite of passage" in the "old country" for the generations of men in my family before my dad.

1) I`m not outraged

2) I see that you still don`t understand fully. As I said earlier. Age restrictions (like the one you referenced) are in place to protect those they are restricting. Not because they are potentially annoying. This is simply a case of being potentially disruptive.

So basically your opposition is that - in your opinion - this is a trivial basis on which to estabkish a restriction? "Potential Annoyance" does not equate "Potential Physical Harm" for example?

And if that's the case...then how do we justify age restrictions at casinos? "Potential Addiction to Gambling"? 'cuz then I'd say ban anyone over the age of 50.

JustErin said:

Dave1992 said:

(I have read your posts now!)

It's also an enforced law that restaurant owners can serve whom they want to.

Not every enforced law is totally logical, correct and taking care of everyone concerned equally. Laws are usually about the greater good, which is discriminating against some people, of course.

I think I should have been allowed to drink alcohol before my 18th birthday, because I had more sense of responsibility than most of the people of the same age around me, thought about my actions more thoroughly, could consume more alcohol without being/feeling/behaving drunk and basically never got wasted. So the law was quite discriminating, but I had to obey and understood why I had to.

There may be some children under 6 who behave better than many adults, but the owner of this restaurant still thinks it's more efficient to ban under 6 kids than to ban under 18 kids. Personally, I think so too.

And no, this is very different to making up your own rules about skin colour or sexuality. This is about potential noise and annoying behaviour and therefor losing customers. And I don't think it's wrong to want to serve people who don't want to be disrupted; it's a choice the owner/customer has to make.

Potential noise and annoying behaviour can and does come from anyone (regardless of age, or race, or sex or sexual orientation or disability). Banning any other group other than children of a certain age for potentially being annoying would create outrage. They wouldn`t dare do that...they treat it as case by case...which I agree to and think should apply to all patrons, including young children.

There are adults only establishments and there are not. Banning kids from adult establishments is not done because they might be annoying. Rules are there to protect children...and everyone.

I don`t pick and choose which group should be discriminated against and which shouldn`t on the grounds that they might be annoying and I don`t believe it`s fair that anyone does. You can`t (or at least shouldn`t) have it both ways.

My stupid keyboard keeps going back to french...I`m tired of correcting it. Gah.

Shorty said:

jone70 said:

Thank you. Everytime I've tried to speak/interact with my niece she has been a brat. I call it like I see it - relative or not. Maybe if her parents and grandparents (my mother, esp) would expect her to behave instead of doing whatever she wants she wouldn't be like that. Just because my brother choses to tolerate it doesn't mean I have to. There are reasons I live far away in New York and have no children. I don't understand why most people with children seem to expect everyone to like kids; I don't expect everyone to like the same things as I do.

ok...so how's she a brat? (I see your examples above now) Nope...doesn't mean you have to tolerate it, I'm friends with some folx who's kids are brats...but they are not brats around me because they know they can't get away with that shit around me, but I don't tell the parents they better keep their kids in check around me...I deal with them myself. If they are in MY home, they do not disrespect me. If I am in their home I do just tolerate it unless its something directly involving me. Nobody expects you to like children but to be tolerent of them (not of bad behavior, but of children being well...children) isn't too much to ask from family.

why do you even visit at all?

[Edited 7/13/11 11:06am]

Trust me, I do not put up with it; however I see them maybe once a year (the last time I visited was the fall of 2009) so they do not necessarily know that I will not tolerate bad behaviour. Two specific examples:

1. one time my niece and I were playing a game or working on a puzzle or something and she decided she had had enough so she got up and walked away, knocking the pieces all over the floor (intentionally). I told her that she needed to come back and pick up the pieces instead of leaving them lying on the floor; that was not where they belonged. She just looked at me side-eyed and walked away to go watch cartoons. Her parents did nothing.

2. I called my brother to speak with my niece on the phone, as she was getting ready to start kindergarten or first grade and I wanted to talk to her about how important it is to do her best, etc. She refused to speak with me, very disrespectful, imo.

My nephew is actually much better; talks to me on the phone and can actually be fun to be around (). I told my mother the restrictions for dinner because she has a bad habit of overscheduling me with family functions when I do visit, which is trying enough (for a host of reasons inappropriate for a message board); I was trying to mitigate irritation for everyone by making expectations clear.

Again, it should be up to how they think would be a right place for a kid under that age. If the parent's upset they're not allowed in, go somewhere else. Not worth the drama. Besides someone that young, they're not into "discipline" because they're too young to understand it. I know so because I was that type of kid until I got to a certain age (like age 7 on up).

[Edited 7/13/11 11:22am]

PurpleJedi said:

JustErin said:

1) I`m not outraged

2) I see that you still don`t understand fully. As I said earlier. Age restrictions (like the one you referenced) are in place to protect those they are restricting. Not because they are potentially annoying. This is simply a case of being potentially disruptive.

So basically your opposition is that - in your opinion - this is a trivial basis on which to estabkish a restriction? "Potential Annoyance" does not equate "Potential Physical Harm" for example?

And if that's the case...then how do we justify age restrictions at casinos? "Potential Addiction to Gambling"? 'cuz then I'd say ban anyone over the age of 50.

I`m sorry. I can`t keep going back with you. Others have stated they understand fully what I am saying but might not agree with me.

You simply don`t understand and it appears that I can`t make you understand.

jone70 said:

Shorty said:

ok...so how's she a brat? (I see your examples above now) Nope...doesn't mean you have to tolerate it, I'm friends with some folx who's kids are brats...but they are not brats around me because they know they can't get away with that shit around me, but I don't tell the parents they better keep their kids in check around me...I deal with them myself. If they are in MY home, they do not disrespect me. If I am in their home I do just tolerate it unless its something directly involving me. Nobody expects you to like children but to be tolerent of them (not of bad behavior, but of children being well...children) isn't too much to ask from family.

why do you even visit at all?

[Edited 7/13/11 11:06am]

Trust me, I do not put up with it; however I see them maybe once a year (the last time I visited was the fall of 2009) so they do not necessarily know that I will not tolerate bad behaviour. Two specific examples:

1. one time my niece and I were playing a game or working on a puzzle or something and she decided she had had enough so she got up and walked away, knocking the pieces all over the floor (intentionally). I told her that she needed to come back and pick up the pieces instead of leaving them lying on the floor; that was not where they belonged. She just looked at me side-eyed and walked away to go watch cartoons. Her parents did nothing.

2. I called my brother to speak with my niece on the phone, as she was getting ready to start kindergarten or first grade and I wanted to talk to her about how important it is to do her best, etc. She refused to speak with me, very disrespectful, imo.

My nephew is actually much better; talks to me on the phone and can actually be fun to be around (). I told my mother the restrictions for dinner because she has a bad habit of overscheduling me with family functions when I do visit, which is trying enough (for a host of reasons inappropriate for a message board); I was trying to mitigate irritation for everyone by making expectations clear.

well....kids have very little controll over any part of their lives...so sometimes they try to take a little control of their own when they can. can be viewed as disrespectful or can be viewed as a strong individual in the making. I think you'll see a big difference on this visit. I can tell you from experience there's a world of difference between 5 and 7

good luck.

JustErin said:

Dave1992 said:

It's mostly children that are annoying.

Oh I beg to differ on that one.

If I think of all the cases I have been "annoyed" by someone in a restaurant, take into account how often it were children and how often it were grown-ups, there has been far, far more cases in which a child squealing hurt my ears than a grown-up person talking loudly (and the number of grown-ups far outweighs the number of children at the restaurants I have been to, of course). I guess that this is the same with most other people, that's why few people argue the way you do.

Yes, children are lovely and they are our future and we should care about them and children should come first. But no child will be sad or offended because a restaurant is "over 6 only". Paying for someone serving your dinner is not about children, whether you have kids or not. It's a business and it's comfort.

A restaurant boss is not a greenpeace employee, but a simple businessman.

I wish it was local.

I wish there was one in every town.

I wish I owned a business where I could institute this policy.

Shorty said:

jone70 said:

Trust me, I do not put up with it; however I see them maybe once a year (the last time I visited was the fall of 2009) so they do not necessarily know that I will not tolerate bad behaviour. Two specific examples:

1. one time my niece and I were playing a game or working on a puzzle or something and she decided she had had enough so she got up and walked away, knocking the pieces all over the floor (intentionally). I told her that she needed to come back and pick up the pieces instead of leaving them lying on the floor; that was not where they belonged. She just looked at me side-eyed and walked away to go watch cartoons. Her parents did nothing.

2. I called my brother to speak with my niece on the phone, as she was getting ready to start kindergarten or first grade and I wanted to talk to her about how important it is to do her best, etc. She refused to speak with me, very disrespectful, imo.

My nephew is actually much better; talks to me on the phone and can actually be fun to be around (). I told my mother the restrictions for dinner because she has a bad habit of overscheduling me with family functions when I do visit, which is trying enough (for a host of reasons inappropriate for a message board); I was trying to mitigate irritation for everyone by making expectations clear.

well....kids have very little controll over any part of their lives...so sometimes they try to take a little control of their own when they can. can be viewed as disrespectful or can be viewed as a strong individual in the making. I think you'll see a big difference on this visit. I can tell you from experience there's a world of difference between 5 and 7

good luck.

Oh, please. I am the strongest person you'll ever meet. But I knew from the age of three that my mother would clean my clock if I stepped out of line.

True story: When I was three (or four - I forget), my mom had to buy a dress for a banquet she was attending with my dad. So she took my two younger sisters and me with her to the store. I was walking, one sister was just a baby (in her stroller) and the middle sister was in a hitchhiker seat on the stroller. She grabbed some dresses and took all of us in the fitting room with her.

At one point, the saleslady came in to check on her and said, "My, but your children are well-behaved!" And my mom just said, "They better be!"

[Edited 7/13/11 12:31pm]

Dave1992 said:

JustErin said:

Oh I beg to differ on that one.

If I think of all the cases I have been "annoyed" by someone in a restaurant, take into account how often it were children and how often it were grown-ups, there has been far, far more cases in which a child squealing hurt my ears than a grown-up person talking loudly (and the number of grown-ups far outweighs the number of children at the restaurants I have been to, of course). I guess that this is the same with most other people, that's why few people argue the way you do.

Yes, children are lovely and they are our future and we should care about them and children should come first. But no child will be sad or offended because a restaurant is "over 6 only". Paying for someone serving your dinner is not about children, whether you have kids or not. It's a business and it's comfort.

A restaurant boss is not a greenpeace employee, but a simple businessman.

My experience is very different to yours. Usually it's adults who annoy me in restaurants. But then again the most annyoing thing in restaurants for me is people smoking anyway and not somebody who might make noise. I wonder what restaurants people go to or what planes they fly, I very rarely have seen children who were really annoying .

And another thing, fuck all y'alls kids! Everybody who has kids thinks they're perfect, or at the very least that they're not as bad as those "other kids". You're wrong. Anybody who doesn't want kids and find their behavior intolerable if FORCED to put up with their bullshit. There is no argument for this, its a simple fact. Unless you are going to one of the very few adults only establishments (and I'm not talking about bars or strip clubs) you are FORCED, without choice, to deal with obnoxious children.

Now, as far as the legality of this guys decision, I hope it goes all the way to the supreme court and he wins.

Genesia said:

Shorty said:

well....kids have very little controll over any part of their lives...so sometimes they try to take a little control of their own when they can. can be viewed as disrespectful or can be viewed as a strong individual in the making. I think you'll see a big difference on this visit. I can tell you from experience there's a world of difference between 5 and 7

good luck.

Oh, please. I am the strongest person you'll ever meet. But I knew from the age of three that my mother would clean my clock if I stepped out of line.

True story: When I was three (or four - I forget), my mom had to buy a dress for a banquet she was attending with my dad. So she took my two younger sisters and me with her to the store. I was walking, one sister was just a baby (in her stroller) and the middle sister was in a hitchhiker seat on the stroller. She grabbed some dresses and took all of us in the fitting room with her.

At one point, the saleslady came in to check on her and said, "My, but your children are well-behaved!" And my mom just said, "They better be!"

[Edited 7/13/11 12:31pm]

Cerebus said:

And another thing, fuck all y'alls kids! Everybody who has kids thinks they're perfect, or at the very least that they're not as bad as those "other kids". You're wrong. Anybody who doesn't want kids and find their behavior intolerable if FORCED to put up with their bullshit. There is no argument for this, its a simple fact. Unless you are going to one of the very few adults only establishments (and I'm not talking about bars or strip clubs) you are FORCED, without choice, to deal with obnoxious children.

Now, as far as the legality of this guys decision, I hope it goes all the way to the supreme court and he wins.

I find the behaviour of many adults intolerable and still have to put up with their bullshit. And adults had way more time in their lives to learn proper behaviour than kids.

Serious said:

Dave1992 said:

If I think of all the cases I have been "annoyed" by someone in a restaurant, take into account how often it were children and how often it were grown-ups, there has been far, far more cases in which a child squealing hurt my ears than a grown-up person talking loudly (and the number of grown-ups far outweighs the number of children at the restaurants I have been to, of course). I guess that this is the same with most other people, that's why few people argue the way you do.

Yes, children are lovely and they are our future and we should care about them and children should come first. But no child will be sad or offended because a restaurant is "over 6 only". Paying for someone serving your dinner is not about children, whether you have kids or not. It's a business and it's comfort.

A restaurant boss is not a greenpeace employee, but a simple businessman.

My experience is very different to yours. Usually it's adults who annoy me in restaurants. But then again the most annyoing thing in restaurants for me is people smoking anyway and not somebody who might make noise. I wonder what restaurants people go to or what planes they fly, I very rarely have seen children who were really annoying .

Serious said:

Cerebus said:

And another thing, fuck all y'alls kids! Everybody who has kids thinks they're perfect, or at the very least that they're not as bad as those "other kids". You're wrong. Anybody who doesn't want kids and find their behavior intolerable if FORCED to put up with their bullshit. There is no argument for this, its a simple fact. Unless you are going to one of the very few adults only establishments (and I'm not talking about bars or strip clubs) you are FORCED, without choice, to deal with obnoxious children.

Now, as far as the legality of this guys decision, I hope it goes all the way to the supreme court and he wins.

I find the behaviour of many adults intolerable and still have to put up with their bullshit. And adults had way more time in their lives to learn proper behaviour than kids.

Shorty said:

Serious said:

My experience is very different to yours. Usually it's adults who annoy me in restaurants. But then again the most annyoing thing in restaurants for me is people smoking anyway and not somebody who might make noise. I wonder what restaurants people go to or what planes they fly, I very rarely have seen children who were really annoying .

even though I agree with the owners choice. I'm with you serious. I very rarely see or hear screaming or tantruming children anywhere. Once in a while at wal-mart or grocery shopping but....that's it. When I'm out...I'm out at night at bars...there ain't no kids there (thank god)

Yeah supermarkets and public transport too are the places where I sometimes see tantrums by children. And sometimes the overreacting reactions by the parents are more embarrassing than the kids' behaviour .

Shorty said:

Genesia said:

Oh, please. I am the strongest person you'll ever meet. But I knew from the age of three that my mother would clean my clock if I stepped out of line.

True story: When I was three (or four - I forget), my mom had to buy a dress for a banquet she was attending with my dad. So she took my two younger sisters and me with her to the store. I was walking, one sister was just a baby (in her stroller) and the middle sister was in a hitchhiker seat on the stroller. She grabbed some dresses and took all of us in the fitting room with her.

At one point, the saleslady came in to check on her and said, "My, but your children are well-behaved!" And my mom just said, "They better be!"

[Edited 7/13/11 12:31pm]

oh please what? even knowing you'd get your clock cleaned I bet you still tried to get away with shit, was sneaky about something, talked back once in a great while? you know you did!

At home, maybe. But never, ever, ever in public. Ever.

Another true story: My parents took my sisters and me out for a Friday night fish fry when I was...oh...probably 9 or so. After we finished dinner, we asked my dad if we could have dessert. My dad...not about to pay $2 a scoop for some mediocre vanilla ice cream that we probably wouldn't have finished, anyway, said...

Your dessert is being here in the first place.

He told us that if we were quiet on the drive home, we could have dessert when we got there.

So we were.

Serious said:

Cerebus said:

And another thing, fuck all y'alls kids! Everybody who has kids thinks they're perfect, or at the very least that they're not as bad as those "other kids". You're wrong. Anybody who doesn't want kids and find their behavior intolerable if FORCED to put up with their bullshit. There is no argument for this, its a simple fact. Unless you are going to one of the very few adults only establishments (and I'm not talking about bars or strip clubs) you are FORCED, without choice, to deal with obnoxious children.

Now, as far as the legality of this guys decision, I hope it goes all the way to the supreme court and he wins.

I find the behaviour of many adults intolerable and still have to put up with their bullshit. And adults had way more time in their lives to learn proper behaviour than kids.

So handle it. Get up and say something. Complain to a manager. Call the police. You can't do that in regards to somebodies children. "Oh, its just a child acting like a child" is not the same as "Why is that grown man acting like a child?" The two issues are not the same, so lets not get them confused.

How many times are you in a grocery store, a restaruant, a clothing store, a movie theater, etc etc etc etc where you have to deal with screaming, crying, yelling, running around out of control, obnoxious, tantram throwing children whose parents just continue on with their day, eyes glazed over, like nothing is happening compared to the same thing happening with an adult? I think its pretty safe to say that the two are not comparable on any level. And before you even go there with a, "that never happens to me", well that's great! It DOES happen to me. It happens all the time. No matter where I go in the Bay Area. Its an epidemic of epic proportions and its been getting worse for quite some time. And the absolute worst part is that there is most certainly parents who have posted in this thread who have kids who behave this way and think NOTHING of it. They think its "normal". Well, you know what? Its not! Its aggresively discourteous to those around you who are trying to peacefully go about their day/life.

Serious said:

Shorty said:

even though I agree with the owners choice. I'm with you serious. I very rarely see or hear screaming or tantruming children anywhere. Once in a while at wal-mart or grocery shopping but....that's it. When I'm out...I'm out at night at bars...there ain't no kids there (thank god)

Yeah supermarkets and public transport too are the places where I sometimes see tantrums by children. And sometimes the overreacting reactions by the parents are more embarrassing than the kids' behaviour .

Then they should both get the hell out! Period.

Cerebus said:

Serious said:

Yeah supermarkets and public transport too are the places where I sometimes see tantrums by children. And sometimes the overreacting reactions by the parents are more embarrassing than the kids' behaviour .

Then they should both get the hell out! Period.

and

Cerebus said:

Serious said:

I find the behaviour of many adults intolerable and still have to put up with their bullshit. And adults had way more time in their lives to learn proper behaviour than kids.

So handle it. Get up and say something. Complain to a manager. Call the police. You can't do that in regards to somebodies children. "Oh, its just a child acting like a child" is not the same as "Why is that grown man acting like a child?" The two issues are not the same, so lets not get them confused.

How many times are you in a grocery store, a restaruant, a clothing store, a movie theater, etc etc etc etc where you have to deal with screaming, crying, yelling, running around out of control, obnoxious, tantram throwing children whose parents just continue on with their day, eyes glazed over, like nothing is happening compared to the same thing happening with an adult? I think its pretty safe to say that the two are not comparable on any level. And before you even go there with a, "that never happens to me", well that's great! It DOES happen to me. It happens all the time. No matter where I go in the Bay Area. Its an epidemic of epic proportions and its been getting worse for quite some time. And the absolute worst part is that there is most certainly parents who have posted in this thread who have kids who behave this way and think NOTHING of it. They think its "normal". Well, you know what? Its not! Its aggresively discourteous to those around you who are trying to peacefully go about their day/life.

Cerebus said:

Serious said:

I find the behaviour of many adults intolerable and still have to put up with their bullshit. And adults had way more time in their lives to learn proper behaviour than kids.

So handle it. Get up and say something. Complain to a manager. Call the police. You can't do that in regards to somebodies children. "Oh, its just a child acting like a child" is not the same as "Why is that grown man acting like a child?" The two issues are not the same, so lets not get them confused.

How many times are you in a grocery store, a restaruant, a clothing store, a movie theater, etc etc etc etc where you have to deal with screaming, crying, yelling, running around out of control, obnoxious, tantram throwing children whose parents just continue on with their day, eyes glazed over, like nothing is happening compared to the same thing happening with an adult? I think its pretty safe to say that the two are not comparable on any level. And before you even go there with a, "that never happens to me", well that's great! It DOES happen to me. It happens all the time. No matter where I go in the Bay Area. Its an epidemic of epic proportions and its been getting worse for quite some time. And the absolute worst part is that there is most certainly parents who have posted in this thread who have kids who behave this way and think NOTHING of it. They think its "normal". Well, you know what? Its not! Its aggresively discourteous to those around you who are trying to peacefully go about their day/life.

And whoever decided it was a good idea to have kiddie-sized grocery carts at Whole Foods oughta be shot.

Cerebus said:

Serious said:

I find the behaviour of many adults intolerable and still have to put up with their bullshit. And adults had way more time in their lives to learn proper behaviour than kids.

So handle it. Get up and say something. Complain to a manager. Call the police. You can't do that in regards to somebodies children. "Oh, its just a child acting like a child" is not the same as "Why is that grown man acting like a child?" The two issues are not the same, so lets not get them confused.

How many times are you in a grocery store, a restaruant, a clothing store, a movie theater, etc etc etc etc where you have to deal with screaming, crying, yelling, running around out of control, obnoxious, tantram throwing children whose parents just continue on with their day, eyes glazed over, like nothing is happening compared to the same thing happening with an adult? I think its pretty safe to say that the two are not comparable on any level. And before you even go there with a, "that never happens to me", well that's great! It DOES happen to me. It happens all the time. No matter where I go in the Bay Area. Its an epidemic of epic proportions and its been getting worse for quite some time. And the absolute worst part is that there is most certainly parents who have posted in this thread who have kids who behave this way and think NOTHING of it. They think its "normal". Well, you know what? Its not! Its aggresively discourteous to those around you who are trying to peacefully go about their day/life.

Yeah sure managers and the police will shut them down .

Here in Austria parents are usually always overreacting when their children get a little loud. I love to be in southern countries where children are still allowed to be children and are not expected to act like little adults.

The day before yesterday I was in a supermarket. There was a long line in front of the cashier and a young woman with a toddler sneaked in in front of me (I was in the middle of the line). I thought she must belong to the woman in front of me, but just to make sure I asked and she had the nerve to tell me: "No I'm sorry, but my boy is such a bad boy, see he is not behaving at all". The boy was behaving just fine . The mother obviously was not .

Shorty said:

Cerebus said:

So handle it. Get up and say something. Complain to a manager. Call the police. You can't do that in regards to somebodies children. "Oh, its just a child acting like a child" is not the same as "Why is that grown man acting like a child?" The two issues are not the same, so lets not get them confused.

How many times are you in a grocery store, a restaruant, a clothing store, a movie theater, etc etc etc etc where you have to deal with screaming, crying, yelling, running around out of control, obnoxious, tantram throwing children whose parents just continue on with their day, eyes glazed over, like nothing is happening compared to the same thing happening with an adult? I think its pretty safe to say that the two are not comparable on any level. And before you even go there with a, "that never happens to me", well that's great! It DOES happen to me. It happens all the time. No matter where I go in the Bay Area. Its an epidemic of epic proportions and its been getting worse for quite some time. And the absolute worst part is that there is most certainly parents who have posted in this thread who have kids who behave this way and think NOTHING of it. They think its "normal". Well, you know what? Its not! Its aggresively discourteous to those around you who are trying to peacefully go about their day/life.

Why? Because you have kids so the world should bend to your whims? Why should you be treated any different than anybody else? Rude is rude, and bad parenting is just as obnoxious as misbehaving children.

Well, it doesn't matter who of us has been more annoyed by children or not. The owner of that restaurant thinks it's good business not to serve young kids and many people (including me) might approve.

END OF STORY. I win, Erin. Now open your mouth, bitch, so I can fuck your throat.

Serious said:

Cerebus said:

So handle it. Get up and say something. Complain to a manager. Call the police. You can't do that in regards to somebodies children. "Oh, its just a child acting like a child" is not the same as "Why is that grown man acting like a child?" The two issues are not the same, so lets not get them confused.

How many times are you in a grocery store, a restaruant, a clothing store, a movie theater, etc etc etc etc where you have to deal with screaming, crying, yelling, running around out of control, obnoxious, tantram throwing children whose parents just continue on with their day, eyes glazed over, like nothing is happening compared to the same thing happening with an adult? I think its pretty safe to say that the two are not comparable on any level. And before you even go there with a, "that never happens to me", well that's great! It DOES happen to me. It happens all the time. No matter where I go in the Bay Area. Its an epidemic of epic proportions and its been getting worse for quite some time. And the absolute worst part is that there is most certainly parents who have posted in this thread who have kids who behave this way and think NOTHING of it. They think its "normal". Well, you know what? Its not! Its aggresively discourteous to those around you who are trying to peacefully go about their day/life.

Yeah sure managers and the police will shut them down .

Here in Austria parents are usually always overreacting when their children get a little loud. I love to be in southern countries where children are still allowed to be children and are not expected to act like little adults.

The day before yesterday I was in a supermarket. There was a long line in front of the cashier and a young woman with a toddler sneaked in in front of me (I was in the middle of the line). I thought she must belong to the woman in front of me, but just to make sure I asked and she had the nerve to tell me: "No I'm sorry, but my boy is such a bad boy, see he is not behaving at all". The boy was behaving just fine . The mother obviously was not .

Sarcasm will get you everywhere! (that was sarcasm, in case you missed it) The point is that they won't do ANYTHING if its a child unless the parent is seen beating them. Beyond that, in most cases, the children and parents are allowed to do whatever they want, "because they're children", which is complete and utter bullshit.

I don't want children to act like adults. I want their parents to teach them how to be well-behaved, not take them places that are inappropriate if they can't, and remove them from ANYPLACE where they are causing a public disturbance instead of acting like nothing is happening, "'because they're children".

Your example is confusing me, and also not at all the type of behavior I'm referring to.

Cerebus said:

Shorty said:

Why? Because you have kids so the world should bend to your whims? Why should you be treated any different than anybody else? Rude is rude, and bad parenting is just as obnoxious as misbehaving children.

Shorty said:

Cerebus said:

Why? Because you have kids so the world should bend to your whims? Why should you be treated any different than anybody else? Rude is rude, and bad parenting is just as obnoxious as misbehaving children.

no that was my impression of you. wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh! you sound like a tantruming brat yourself.

Dave1992 said:

Well, it doesn't matter who of us has been more annoyed by children or not. The owner of that restaurant thinks it's good business not to serve young kids and many people (including me) might approve.

END OF STORY. I win, Erin. Now open your mouth, bitch, so I can fuck your throat.

And just when I totally lost interest...