Take this as you will

I do think O'Neal has a point in that folk are probably overprotected from hostile social environments these days. It probably makes us soft. What he might be lost on, however, is that folk -- at least in certain collectives -- invest in that security through generations of blood, sweat, tears and darned strategic positioning of social allies. All groups make such moves to protect themselves... especially in their own domains. It's simply a matter of biology. So "outsiders" may trash talk all they want. But they should be well aware there will be consequences.

[Edited 6/17/11 13:35pm]

Quite interesting

hmmm

*bookmarks*

this guy is a total shithead

As I was able to read and listen between the lines, I respectfully agree with what Patrice was hinting at.

Notice the hints that has "conspiracy", "secret societies", "race", "class" & "social cliques" written all over it.

Lammastide said:

I do think O'Neal has a point in that folk are probably overprotected from hostile social environments these days. It probably makes us soft. What he might be lost on, however, is that folk -- at least in certain collectives -- invest in that security through generations of blood, sweat, tears and darned strategic positioning of social allies. All groups make such moves to protect themselves... especially in their own domains. It's simply a matter of biology. So "outsiders" may trash talk all they want. But they should be well aware there will be consequences.

[Edited 6/17/11 13:35pm]

As for comedians, what exactly is the definition of "going too far"?

Not to exclude the homephobia of Tracy Morgan, but I remember a time when some comedians like Andrew Dice Clay, Sarah Silverman, & Eddie Murphy would say somethings about sexuality, race, and/or class that would be equally or more over the line than anything Tracy would say.

The only different between the past & the present is that some LGBTs & some Ashkenazi Jews are not allowing anything to pass them in the 21st century, where by these kinds of harsh jokes about sexuality would have been consider classics in the 1970's & 1980's when political & social incorrectness was still solid to an extent.

TonyVanDam said:

Lammastide said:

I do think O'Neal has a point in that folk are probably overprotected from hostile social environments these days. It probably makes us soft. What he might be lost on, however, is that folk -- at least in certain collectives -- invest in that security through generations of blood, sweat, tears and darned strategic positioning of social allies. All groups make such moves to protect themselves... especially in their own domains. It's simply a matter of biology. So "outsiders" may trash talk all they want. But they should be well aware there will be consequences.

[Edited 6/17/11 13:35pm]

As for comedians, what exactly is the definition of "going too far"?

Not to exclude the homephobia of Tracy Morgan, but I remember a time when some comedians like Andrew Dice Clay, Sarah Silverman, & Eddie Murphy would say somethings about sexuality, race, and/or class that would be equally or more over the line than anything Tracy would say.

The only different between the past & the present is that some LGBTs & some Ashkenazi Jews are not allowing anything to pass them in the 21st century, where by these kinds of harsh jokes about sexuality would have been consider classics in the 1970's & 1980's when political & social incorrectness was still solid to an extent.

You could actually get away with a lot more stuff back than compared to now.

No way would a show like In Living Color air today. Men On Films in todays society hell naw.

LittleBLUECorvette said:

TonyVanDam said:

As for comedians, what exactly is the definition of "going too far"?

Not to exclude the homephobia of Tracy Morgan, but I remember a time when some comedians like Andrew Dice Clay, Sarah Silverman, & Eddie Murphy would say somethings about sexuality, race, and/or class that would be equally or more over the line than anything Tracy would say.

The only different between the past & the present is that some LGBTs & some Ashkenazi Jews are not allowing anything to pass them in the 21st century, where by these kinds of harsh jokes about sexuality would have been consider classics in the 1970's & 1980's when political & social incorrectness was still solid to an extent.

You could actually get away with a lot more stuff back than compared to now.

No way would a show like In Living Color air today. Men On Films in todays society hell naw.

Exactly.

Light years before In Living Color, The Richard Pryor Show was THE original definition of "going too far" with the slurs!

^ It's weird how outrageous things were back then. You definitely can't get away with MOST of the shit this day and age.

This is why im glad we dont have world peace.

Comedy would be a dead art form if we did

[Edited 6/18/11 23:24pm]

formallypickles said:

This is why im glad we dont have world peace.

Comedy would be a dead art from if we did

I see your point in a way. Comedy can be used for anything but yeah.

Timmy84 said:

formallypickles said:

This is why im glad we dont have world peace.

Comedy would be a dead art from if we did

I see your point in a way. Comedy can be used for anything but yeah.

Yeah comedy comes from a dark place. its like a piece of shit with with spinkles on it.

Most of the comedians are fucked up in the head or just mad at the world.

formallypickles said:

Timmy84 said:

I see your point in a way. Comedy can be used for anything but yeah.

Yeah comedy comes from a dark place. its like a piece of shit with with spinkles on it.

Most of the comedians are fucked up in the head or just mad at the world.

TRUE!

TonyVanDam said:

Lammastide said:I do think O'Neal has a point in that folk are probably overprotected from hostile social environments these days. It probably makes us soft. What he might be lost on, however, is that folk -- at least in certain collectives -- invest in that security through generations of blood, sweat, tears and darned strategic positioning of social allies. All groups make such moves to protect themselves... especially in their own domains. It's simply a matter of biology. So "outsiders" may trash talk all they want. But they should be well aware there will be consequences.

[Edited 6/17/11 13:35pm]

As for comedians, what exactly is the definition of "going too far"?

Not to exclude the homephobia of Tracy Morgan, but I remember a time when some comedians like Andrew Dice Clay, Sarah Silverman, & Eddie Murphy would say somethings about sexuality, race, and/or class that would be equally or more over the line than anything Tracy would say.

The only different between the past & the present is that some LGBTs & some Ashkenazi Jews are not allowing anything to pass them in the 21st century, where by these kinds of harsh jokes about sexuality would have been consider classics in the 1970's & 1980's when political & social incorrectness was still solid to an extent.

Exactly. In many instances we are going backwards, this is what Lenny Bruce died for... to allow comedians free rein to discuss anything.

This is the same Tracy Morgan who talked about having sex with his mother.

When Saturday Night Live debuted in the 70's we (my family& friends) were astonished at what they got away with; we were waiting for the FCC to come in and pull the plug. In fact, the topics, subjects, and opinions expressed on prime time and late night talk shows of the 60's and 70's would not be shown today... without someone crying FOUL. I don't think it's a good thing when people are bullied into not expressing an opinion, I don't care how offensive it is. Call them out, cuss them out, express your outrage or whatever.

Voltaire, "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say."

============================

[Edited 6/19/11 8:13am]

There are responsibilities that come with the right of free speech. If you piss people off with what you say, be prepared to be shunned by that group. Just sayin'.

And if you cant stand the heat, Shut the Fuck Up!

Just Sayin'.

[Edited 6/19/11 8:00am]

dreamfactory313 said:

There are responsibilities that come with the right of free speech. If you piss people off with what you say, be prepared to be shunned by that group. Just sayin'.

And if you cant stand the heat, Shut the Fuck Up!

Just Sayin'.

[Edited 6/19/11 8:00am]

Free speech doesn't and shouldn't just protect the profane it should also protect the profound. Those who've spoken profoundly, have been just as prone to being jailed, killed, and shunned. That's why most people do nothing and remain silent.

dreamfactory313 said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

dreamfactory313 said:

There are responsibilities that come with the right of free speech. If you piss people off with what you say, be prepared to be shunned by that group. Just sayin'.

And if you cant stand the heat, Shut the Fuck Up!

Just Sayin'.

[Edited 6/19/11 8:00am]

So no one should say anything, cause everyone will get offended right?

Can you say ANYTHING you want at your job? I sure cant if I plan on keeping it.

Patrice is not saying anything new or groundbreaking. Everything we do in our professional worlds is politics. If you offend the hands that feed you, you'll have to pay the piper. Its common sense. The entertainment industry is just that much more cut throat.

TD3 said:

dreamfactory313 said:

There are responsibilities that come with the right of free speech. If you piss people off with what you say, be prepared to be shunned by that group. Just sayin'.

And if you cant stand the heat, Shut the Fuck Up!

Just Sayin'.

[Edited 6/19/11 8:00am]

Free speech doesn't and shouldn't just protect the profane it should also protect the profound. Those who've spoken profoundly, have been just as prone to being jailed, killed, and shunned. That's why most people do nothing and remain silent.

Do you think that what Tracy Morgan said was profound??

The Richard Pryor videos above portray a time when touchy subjects were debated and brought to largely diverse audiences by comedians through humor; the panel of comedians in the first video shows how diverse things were at that time. (America was moving in a positive direction.) There was nothing truly personal about the comments and every subject was made fun of (poor, ugly, gay, gorilla, white, fat, black, female, sex, etc).

Tracy Morgan's comments were of the same type. Tracy may be guilty of a not-so-funny punchline "stab his son" =violence against a kid?, but he wasn't calling someone out in the audience and directing his comments personally. In comparison, when Michael Richards of Seinfeld fame did his rant in 2006, he directed his comments at someone in the audience and insulted them individually. That to me is crossing the line.

Why not bring these things to light especially in a comedy venue/forum? How can we think individually and collectively about social issues if everyone is forbade to mention, laugh and discuss them in a open and non-threatening manner?

I've sat at comedy shows and didn't like some of the punch lines....(Some of Sarah Silverman's comedy is quite racial but whose to say she isn't doing that to inspire her audience to think about their own racial attitudes?)...nevertheless, I've never concluded a particular comedian should be "ex-communicated". In the same way, perhaps Tracy is sharing an exagerated viewpoint of how some people think....? The interpretation is then left up to the audience to tempre its beliefs. Comedy is good when it makes you think.

Patrice's comments on the cartels is right on. Seems Hollywood has its own distinct special interest groups; which, in my opinion, have severely ruined the quality of its product--no one wants to see the same stuff over-and-over-again, yet that's what Hollywood gives us--maybe there is a lesson here to be learned about inclusiveness in all of our industries?

x

[Edited 6/19/11 11:53am]

richard pryor once told a group of gays

to kiss his happy black ass... so it's safe to

say he was openly anti gay.

some gays are openly anti women

some women are openly anti black

our society is full of people who are

anti something... openly

if you are anti me, i say get over it.

whut you eat, don't make me shit.

the funny thing is

people tend not to see how

openly anti black we are daily...

Harlepolis said:

"Why can't I hate you in speech?"

Well, gee, Patrice. How would you feel if someone called you the n-word? I mean, why can't they "hate you in speech"?

And, as a fellow minority member, he really should know better than to try and paint gays and jews as "cartels"; that's just falling prey to some of the oldest playa-hatin', conspiracy-lunatic bullshit there is.

Chris Rock tweeted:

I dont know about you, but I dont want to live in world where Tracy Morgan cant say foul inappropriate shit

Having heard Tracy on Howard Stern many times, I'm surprised that this is what got him in hot water. That said, I can certainly understand why gays were up in arms.

So, Patrice O'Neal, leave the "political" commentary to the smart people, mmkay?

And further, for the other comedians who are coming out against Tracy's comments...one thought as Patrice cautioned....you can suck the proverbial Hollywood c**k for just so long, eventually all you're left with is a mouth full of c**e and no where to spit.

I just listened to that whole Youtube - very interesting!

The thing is Tracy did offend some people (and I don't think he even meant to). He's just doing the work so that the public can "forgive" him and resolve the issue, and get back to laughing. That's all it is!

Every industry has "acceptable" behavior that may or may not cost one their job. Tracy is just trying to keep his job.

Will Smith isn't doing no extra favors, he just never offended anyone in the first place!

Ace said:

Well, gee, Patrice. How would you feel if someone called you the n-word? I mean, why can't they "hate you in speech"?

And, as a fellow minority member, he really should know better than to try and paint gays and jews as "cartels"; that's just falling prey to some of the oldest playa-hatin', conspiracy-lunatic bullshit there is.

The problem is double-speak, undoubtedly Patrice has been called a n****r by Hollywood types and others (behind closed doors).

The point is, its o.k. for some to make jokes/comments in quiet, but when you put the issue public....oh boy....

As for the cartels, they're there belive it; just look at what television and movies have to offer these days its plainly in our faces.

x

[Edited 6/19/11 12:23pm]

sweething said:

The problem is double-speak, undoubtedly Patrice has been called a n****r by Hollywood types and others (behind closed doors).

Don't be so sure. Why is it that you believe "Hollywood types" are running around, using the n-word? I am 44-years-old and have heard this term spoken in front of me a grand total of one time. And the guy who said it was certainly not a "Hollywood type".

The point is, its o.k. for some to make jokes/comments in quiet, but when you put the issue public....oh boy....

Actually, that's not the point. Wouldn't you say that the point is that making "jokes" about harming people because of their sexuality, race or gender is just beyond the pale?

As for the cartels, they're there belive it; just look at what television and movies have to offer these days its plainly in our faces.

Oh, boy...here we go with the conspiracy stuff. What is plainly in our faces?

Ace said:

sweething said:

The problem is double-speak, undoubtedly Patrice has been called a n****r by Hollywood types and others (behind closed doors).

Don't be so sure. Why is it that you believe "Hollywood types" are running around, using the n-word? I am 44-years-old and have heard this term spoken in front of me a grand total of one time. And the guy who said it was certainly not a "Hollywood type".

Actually, that's not the point. Wouldn't you say that the point is that making "jokes" about harming people because of their sexuality, race or gender is just beyond the pale?

As for the cartels, they're there belive it; just look at what television and movies have to offer these days its plainly in our faces.

Oh, boy...here we go with the conspiracy stuff. What is plainly in our faces?

If you simply observe movies, commericals, television shows you see an uncanny absence of people of color, I mostly notice the absence of blacks. Which in comparison to television and movies of let's say the 1970s where there started to be more blacks as extras and even leads in positive roles.

I expressed that the violence aspect of the joke wasn't cool.

The cartels do run certain industries...the images/placement of blacks (particularly) tend to be offensive.