This is interesting......

http://www.embracethechao...ocker.html

luv4u said:

This is interesting......

http://www.embracethechao...ocker.html

I read that this morning. It's BONKERS! If they want to bring their children up to be whatever they want to be, thats great, but to bring a child up gender free is just plain odd. The kid has a gender. You cant let him/her choose what gender to be. He/She's not a frog.

Gender reassignment is such a rare and serious issue. The kid wouldn't be able to undergo any reassignment operations until he/she was adult anyway, so why not just let the kid grow up the gender it was born with and if (and it's a big if) he/she feels the need later on, then that's the time to look into it.

If you get a puppy, giving it the option of both dog food and cat food won't create the possibility that it will grow up to be a cat!

I'm gonna add more smileys, because reading my post back, it feels like I'm really serious or anti gender reassignment, which is far from the truth. Just think the story's crazy!

[Edited 5/25/11 11:22am]

wow...this is really too much for me to comprehend. I can see what they mean but I also think it could mess them up further..

oi...I don't know about this one.....

Shorty said:

wow...this is really too much for me to comprehend. I can see what they mean but I also think it could mess them up further..

oi...I don't know about this one.....

Agreed. Fine if the kid grows up and decides, but to grow up in that environment... strange

I don't think this is that weird really. There's not much difference between a baby girl and a baby boy. They both shit themselves and play with blocks. I think it bothers people because we are conditioned to treat people based on whatever sex we assume they are. People don't know how to react around this baby since they don't know what it is. It just shows how insane our world is.

The next time you see someone interacting with a litle baby, notice all of the gender traits that are ascribed. If a baby boy smiles at an adult female, he's flirting. If he smiles at an adult male, he's just smiling. From the day of birth we mold our children into what we want them to be. That's why every little 3 year old girl has pig tails. We're telling them that girls should have long hair.

I mean technically, we don't know what anyone is because we can't see their sex organs.

Parents that are way way too into themselves and how clever they are than actually being into the child.

MidniteMagnet said:

I don't think this is that weird really. There's not much difference between a baby girl and a baby boy. They both shit themselves and play with blocks. I think it bothers people because we are conditioned to treat people based on whatever sex we assume they are. People don't know how to react around this baby since they don't know what it is. It just shows how insane our world is.

The next time you see someone interacting with a litle baby, notice all of the gender traits that are ascribed. If a baby boy smiles at an adult female, he's flirting. If he smiles at an adult male, he's just smiling. From the day of birth we mold our children into what we want them to be. That's why every little 3 year old girl has pig tails. We're telling them that girls should have long hair.

I mean technically, we don't know what anyone is because we can't see their sex organs.

I totally agree with what you wrote.

However, what I find weird is that the couple are so far up their arses when it comes to political correctness, they'll refuse to disclose the baby's gender one minute, then they'll use the stereotypical pink=gay shite the next. eg 'our other son likes pink, plays with barbie dolls and has long hair... dun dun duuuuuuun!'

Think we should take it at face value really. It's just some PC nutjobs covetting a bit of publicity, and they got their wish.

[Edited 5/25/11 11:59am]

MidniteMagnet said:

I don't think this is that weird really. There's not much difference between a baby girl and a baby boy. They both shit themselves and play with blocks. I think it bothers people because we are conditioned to treat people based on whatever sex we assume they are. People don't know how to react around this baby since they don't know what it is. It just shows how insane our world is.

The next time you see someone interacting with a litle baby, notice all of the gender traits that are ascribed. If a baby boy smiles at an adult female, he's flirting. If he smiles at an adult male, he's just smiling. From the day of birth we mold our children into what we want them to be. That's why every little 3 year old girl has pig tails. We're telling them that girls should have long hair.

I mean technically, we don't know what anyone is because we can't see their sex organs.

Insane our world is? sure..it can be insane but...not because we acknowledge there is a difference between men and women.

Is it really so wrong to admit that men and women are indeed different?

paintsprayer said:

Parents that are way way too into themselves and how clever they are than actually being into the child.

Is it wrong of me to be thinking of Cousin IT from the Addams Family?

erik319 said:

Shorty said:

The natural progression of aging requires a baby to dependent on the his/her parents making a decision. As the child goes through the stages of development, they gain the ability to begin making decisions for themselves.

By the parents choosing not to assign a gender or they pretty much saying that those parents who choose to define the gender are wrong??

Let's face it - children have grown up perfectly healthy and happy and successful for thousands of years with these gender assignments. They also have the ability to grow up into rejects of society when the parents made gender assumptions.

I just don't think it matters on whether or not a child is going to grow up to be intelligent and kind and happy.

And I don't think an intelligent and kind parent is going to love their kids any less if the kid begins to choose something other than what we think of as traditional gender roles that we had( or had not) been imposing on him/her.

I agree with the publicity stunt opinion!

paintsprayer said:

Parents that are way way too into themselves and how clever they are than actually being into the child.

yes, I think so!

nothing wrong with letting a girl play with army guys and letting a boy play with Malibu Barbie, but secrets never work in sitcoms and they rarely work in real life

this is mad!!! mad eye say!! dressing boys in a dress????let them find out in time what they r?????The world is going mad!!GONE mad!! o lordy.

To me what they're doing just seems really unnecessary, extreme and over-the-top. I don't see what good it'll do to keep from the kid and everyone around them, what gender they are. I guess they think it'll keep people from judging their kid? Thing is, the kid is still gonna be judged, but in a different way, because no one will know their gender. Plus, psychologically it might not be entirely healthy for Storm him/herself, either.

And they keep referencing toys and clothing colors and stuff like that - which doesn't make sense to me either because even if they let everyone know he's a boy, they can still buy him dolls to play with if that's what they want, or trucks if they're a girl, etc. When I was a kid, I definitely knew my gender, and yeah I had some girly clothes and things and played with dolls, but I also played outside and rode bikes and played videogames and tried to climb trees and had boyish clothing as well - my mom just let us be free to be who were were and play with what we want. So it's definitely possible give a kid space to decide what they're into and who they are without hiding their gender from them and everyone else.

But at this point I'm actually more upset about the fact that they essentially don't teach their kids. From what I read, the 'unschooling' thing they adopted, sounds like pretty much just letting the kids play all day and do whatever they want, like it isn't any form of education at all, not even homeschooling. If these kids manage to come out of their childhoods emotionally and psychologically unscathed (which I'm kind of doubting), they'll still have to deal with the problem of pretty much having absolutely no education that they can use to go out there and support themselves at some point. It's like others posted in the comments underneath those articles : "They're setting their kids up to fail".

"unschoolers"?

armpit said:

To me what they're doing just seems really unnecessary, extreme and over-the-top. I don't see what good it'll do to keep from the kid and everyone around them, what gender they are. I guess they think it'll keep people from judging their kid? Thing is, the kid is still gonna be judged, but in a different way, because no one will know their gender. Plus, psychologically it might not be entirely healthy for Storm him/herself, either.

And they keep referencing toys and clothing colors and stuff like that - which doesn't make sense to me either because even if they let everyone know he's a boy, they can still buy him dolls to play with if that's what they want, or trucks if they're a girl, etc. When I was a kid, I definitely knew my gender, and yeah I had some girly clothes and things and played with dolls, but I also played outside and rode bikes and played videogames and tried to climb trees and had boyish clothing as well - my mom just let us be free to be who were were and play with what we want. So it's definitely possible give a kid space to decide what they're into and who they are without hiding their gender from them and everyone else.

But at this point I'm actually more upset about the fact that they essentially don't teach their kids. From what I read, the 'unschooling' thing they adopted, sounds like pretty much just letting the kids play all day and do whatever they want, like it isn't any form of education at all, not even homeschooling. If these kids manage to come out of their childhoods emotionally and psychologically unscathed (which I'm kind of doubting), they'll still have to deal with the problem of pretty much having absolutely no education that they can use to go out there and support themselves at some point. It's like others posted in the comments underneath those articles : "They're setting their kids up to fail".

This.

nd33 said:

erik319 said:

I totally agree with what you wrote.

However, what I find weird is that the couple are so far up their arses when it comes to political correctness, they'll refuse to disclose the baby's gender one minute, then they'll use the stereotypical pink=gay shite the next. eg 'our other son likes pink, plays with barbie dolls and has long hair... dun dun duuuuuuun!'

Think we should take it at face value really. It's just some PC nutjobs covetting a bit of publicity, and they got their wish.

[Edited 5/25/11 11:59am]

What are you insinuating here? Or making blatant assumptions?

Err.. Not my insinuations, just writing what's been reported on various news items over the past day. Ok, I'll admit it, I added the 'dun dun duuuuun' for dramatic effect, but you can almost feel it when you read the article anyway.

If they'd have said 'Kio prefers to wear his pink shoes rather than his blue ones', or 'You should see the barbie he plays with, it's sat in the GI Joe tank, good for her!' or He's had both long and short hair in the past, but I leave it up to him to decided if and when he gets it cut'.

But it's not.

It's Tadaaaa! Pink. Braids. Dresses. Dolls. It feels forced and contrived and very one sided. I'd be interested to see what choice the kids have actually had in all this, beecause to me, it doesn't sound like the kids have much of a choice at all.

paintsprayer said:

Parents that are way way too into themselves and how clever they are than actually being into the child.

co-sign

I'm just wondering what's going to happen when the child goes to school and the teacher says, "Alright, class. All boys line up here and all girls line up there. Oh, and it can stand over here." Or how bout when he/she/it needs to use the rest room? And IF it is a female, what's going to happen when she begins to menstruate? I swear, folk are carrying this a bit far IMO.

nd33 said:

Shorty said:

Insane our world is? sure..it can be insane but...not because we acknowledge there is a difference between men and women.

Is it really so wrong to admit that men and women are indeed different?

Why should pre pubescent children be bombarded with gender assumptions like hair, color, toys etc? What friggin difference does it make? I agree with the general idea of the parents, let the kids pick what they like when it comes to those things, no need for the parents to dictate that.

I totally agree, but I don't know too many people (or any actually) who mandate their girls were pink or must play with barbies. ?? or must have long hair. I will admit that it's harder for parents to encourage/accept pink on a boy or buy dolls for thier sons. But to deny them their actual gender is fucked up in my opinion. Why not just not conform the the stereo typical girl and boy things? buy him pink, and dolls or cut her hair short or buy her trucks. Or let them decide on all of that...but ignoring their actual gender is NOT the way to go (IMO)

and..."unschooling"

Shyra said:

I'm just wondering what's going to happen when the child goes to school and the teacher says, "Alright, class. All boys line up here and all girls line up there. Oh, and it can stand over here." Or how bout when he/she/it needs to use the rest room? And IF it is a female, what's going to happen when she begins to menstruate? I swear, folk are carrying this a bit far IMO.

The kid will know what gender it is...while he/she is young and most impressionable they are not going to define their child by gender.

I understand what they are trying to do...and even if they are trying to keep the outside influences of gender roles at bay, keeping it's sex a secret is pretty stupid.

But the kid wouldn't even be in that situation because they are something called "unschoolers" so it won't even go to school...that's more damaging, imo.

I can't wait - in 15 years this kid & his/her shrink are gonna sue those idiot parents.

JustErin said:

Shyra said:

I'm just wondering what's going to happen when the child goes to school and the teacher says, "Alright, class. All boys line up here and all girls line up there. Oh, and it can stand over here." Or how bout when he/she/it needs to use the rest room? And IF it is a female, what's going to happen when she begins to menstruate? I swear, folk are carrying this a bit far IMO.

The kid will know what gender it is...while he/she is young and most impressionable they are not going to define their child by gender.

I understand what they are trying to do...and even if they are trying to keep the outside influences of gender roles at bay, keeping it's sex a secret is pretty stupid.

But the kid wouldn't even be in that situation because they are something called "unschoolers" so it won't even go to school...that's more damaging, imo.

Agreed.

Not telling people what gender their child is to keep others from ascribing traditional gender roles on their child is interesting and certainly a bit out there but not ultimately damaging.

Keeping their children home from school and letting them make decisions they aren’t informed nor mature enough to make is highly suspect.

I understand their idea of questioning gender and I find some of their ideas fascinating but keeping children from education is harmful and damaging. I wouldn’t want my child to be part of such an experiment.

Shorty said:

nd33 said:

Shorty said: Why should pre pubescent children be bombarded with gender assumptions like hair, color, toys etc? What friggin difference does it make? I agree with the general idea of the parents, let the kids pick what they like when it comes to those things, no need for the parents to dictate that.

I totally agree, but I don't know too many people (or any actually) who mandate their girls were pink or must play with barbies. ?? or must have long hair. I will admit that it's harder for parents to encourage/accept pink on a boy or buy dolls for thier sons. But to deny them their actual gender is fucked up in my opinion. Why not just not conform the the stereo typical girl and boy things? buy him pink, and dolls or cut her hair short or buy her trucks. Or let them decide on all of that...but ignoring their actual gender is NOT the way to go (IMO)

and..."unschooling"

"In Storm's case, they decided to allow Storm to reveal his or her gender when the time was right."

It's not denying gender. They all know what he/she is. It's simply not revealing it to others outside the family. They've said that all will be revealed in time, but the kid has master control over that.

Would make the decision of buying a birthday present more interesting for a friend wouldn't it?!

This reminds me of a neighbour of ours, who's boy (aged under 7) liked to put on womens shoes when they'd visit friends etc. The dad would get sooo upset about it, but I thought he was an idiot and that the whole thing was hilarious. I was far more entertained at the dads reaction than the kid oblivously and innocently putting on some ladies shoes.

Obviously kids need alot of guidance by parents, but the colours of their clothes, which toys they play with and what hairstyles they choose aren't part of the necessary skills they must learn and the more creative they are with those things, the better IMO.

CarrieMpls said:

JustErin said:

The kid will know what gender it is...while he/she is young and most impressionable they are not going to define their child by gender.

I understand what they are trying to do...and even if they are trying to keep the outside influences of gender roles at bay, keeping it's sex a secret is pretty stupid.

But the kid wouldn't even be in that situation because they are something called "unschoolers" so it won't even go to school...that's more damaging, imo.

Agreed.

Not telling people what gender their child is to keep others from ascribing traditional gender roles on their child is interesting and certainly a bit out there but not ultimately damaging.

Keeping their children home from school and letting them make decisions they aren’t informed nor mature enough to make is highly suspect.

I understand their idea of questioning gender and I find some of their ideas fascinating but keeping children from education is harmful and damaging. I wouldn’t want my child to be part of such an experiment.

Yes!! I find it very interesting that people are focussed and incensed about the gender thing when this is far more important and controversial!

The education - definite concern

The gender thing - not so much

NDRU said:

paintsprayer said:

Parents that are way way too into themselves and how clever they are than actually being into the child.

yes, I think so!

nothing wrong with letting a girl play with army guys and letting a boy play with Malibu Barbie, but secrets never work in sitcoms and they rarely work in real life

Agree. This isn't about the child its' about the parents. They didn't pull this stunt with their other two children from what I've read and keeping the child's gender a secret from the grandparents is ludicrous.

This just reminds me of the parents of balloon boy as he was affectionately called. Some people will do anything to make a statement or garner attention and I feel rather sorry for the child.