paintedlady said:

SUPRMAN said:

But no one overweight HAS to fly. It is a personal choice to do so.

She wants her personal choice accomodated.

Neither do disabled people... we accomidate them.

This is an issue of equality. Not all people are one size so they shouldn't only make one sized seating.

We shouldn't exclude certain people with any restrictions because of the airplane designers lack forsight.

The people who built the planes were the ones that made the situation a problem. They lacked vision, they should have included all people in their original design when making the seats in the first place.

[Edited 5/19/11 19:00pm]

Of course they included all people. 400lb people are the exception, not the rule. Why not accomodate 1,000 lb people, as it is known that people can get that heavy?

Why shouldn't cars and public transportation also have to cater the the extreme?

And while we're at it, there are a lot more people over 6'4 who fly than 400 lb people, but I see you conveniently ignore their needs. . . . . .

[Edited 5/19/11 20:21pm]

strmn said:

formallypickles said:

so they can make two rows of jumbo seats and if a jumbo seat is empty two people could fly jumbo and of course you have to pay extra for the jumbo seat.

but i can see someone (probably this big bitch ) complaining about the price

the larger planes do have wide seating for people but the smaller ones dont

jumbo seats= two regular seats in a smaller plane

[Edited 5/19/11 16:13pm]

I'm sorry that I can't give a reference, but I'm almost certain that the US Supreme Court handed down a ruling a few years ago in the case of a passenger who was told to buy two seats because of weight/size. If I am remembering a correctly, the Supreme Court ruled that this violated The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). I'm sure that is why the woman in this situation refers in the video several times to "equal access" and "equal rights".

I'm actually rather shocked by some of the things people are saying in this thread. This is someone's sister, daughter, friend. Comparing her to luggage is dehumanizing, to say the least.

Incidentally, if you watched the video, you would know that she is not 400lbs. She used to be. Obviously, that number has been used to sensationalize the story (at her expense, I might add).

so either accommodate for this big bitch vs 400 people losing their job ...

i love calling her big bitch ...no hard feelings to the lady

[Edited 5/19/11 19:59pm]

formallypickles said:

Spinlight said:

I don't know this lady, but believe-you-me, people with liver, kidney, and other internal organ failure/malfunction can gain massive weight. Not to mention, some prescriptions. NOT SAYING this is why she is fat, but I stay not judging fat people cuz I don't know their lives. If I truly thought every overweight person sat around eating cake, I'd be one misinformed guy.

I ain't in the business of making people feel bad about themselves. Airline seats SHOULD be bigger, we SHOULD NOT bitch and moan about it becauise you KNOW those seats are too small, and if this big bitch can't fit in them FINE, but my big ass at 6'1" and 200lbs is extremely uncomfortable on airplanes too.

i understand ya but i had family members and friends that gained lots of weight from health problems and meds and never in my life have a heard someone gain weight soley based off

meds or a health problem plus its not good to have that extra weight if your sick anyway.

Your weight and height is fine and i do think the seats could be bigger but i really dont think this massive big whale has room to complain.

its always the people who shouldnt be complaining that complain the most

if someone with your height complains fair enough you cant help it or maybe a 300 lbs pregnant woman ok fair enought=

but clearly this big bitch ate more calories than she expelled..

If it's so easy for someone to control what they eat, then it should be even easier for someone to control when they gap their legs open. If the big bitch did it to herself by eating, then the big slut also did it to herself by fucking. In that case, let her whorish ass pay for two seats too.

People are humans whether they are fat or skinny, short or tall, or whores or goodie two shoes. And since they are humans, they should be treated as humans, not luggage, and not sideshow freaks. Nobody asked to be what they are and whether someone got fat by overeating or by medical reasons, believe me, no fat person wants to be fat.

paintedlady said:

RenHoek said:

I'm sure airplane designers have vision but by force of necessity it's all tunneled in the direction of a companies Return on Investment. An airline simply can't fly enough overweight people in order to make up for the money they spend on fuel and plane.

I know I'll get lambasted for this but I still feel that a pay by weight system needs to be considered becasue ULTIMATELY all we really are at this point is human freight...

It's how they calculate fuel usage, flight time and a host of other factors... it's just too crass to talk about openly...

and for the record, I have nothing against our voluptuous members of society (unless you're a man, then that's just nasty...)...

I understand the profit margin requirements... but they can't do the pay as you weigh thing either.

That means more chances of some screaming kid sitting next to you.

actually I have two of those kids (well... they don't scream... much...) and that weight thing would TOTALLY make it easier for us to visit Italy next summer... right now $1400 roundtrip for a 5yr. old feels kinda butt-rapey...

paintedlady said:

Let that fat-ass pay for two seats!

We shouldn't take on that expense!

Let that blind person keep that fucking dog at home!

I have allergies dammit!

Let that cripple crawl up the fucking stairs! Chair lifts and elevators?

Not MY problem!

We need peanuts on a plane, fuck that little brat and his peanut allergies!
I'm hungry dammit!

Shit... maybe we should ban those Middle-easterners from flying!

I'm tired of waiting in long lines and taking off my shoes!

We only care about issues if they affect us directly, and we all have our prejudices don't we? When we don't consider one type of person then where will it end?

Enable someone to get fatter? Really? Do you really hear yourselves? Wow.

Exactly! Many theaters have been forced by the ADA to have wheelchair seating sections such as a section set aside in the back of the theater that has spaces to park a wheelchair and permanent seats on each side of the gaps for companion seating. I've seen theaters seat an obese person by placing just a regular chair in one of the wheelchair slots and it works out fine. I mean, most shows aren't just overloaded with people in wheelchairs and they aren't overloaded with extremely obese people either.

Do airplanes even have any accomodations for people in wheelchairs? If they don't they should be forced to and the same accomodations could apply to extremely obese people also. Of course people would bitch about it though because they actually enjoy hating obese people. I've seen it my entire life with the treatment my own mother received and in 2011, I still can't believe this shit still goes on.

vainandy said:

formallypickles said:

i understand ya but i had family members and friends that gained lots of weight from health problems and meds and never in my life have a heard someone gain weight soley based off

meds or a health problem plus its not good to have that extra weight if your sick anyway.

Your weight and height is fine and i do think the seats could be bigger but i really dont think this massive big whale has room to complain.

its always the people who shouldnt be complaining that complain the most

if someone with your height complains fair enough you cant help it or maybe a 300 lbs pregnant woman ok fair enought=

but clearly this big bitch ate more calories than she expelled..

If it's so easy for someone to control what they eat, then it should be even easier for someone to control when they gap their legs open. If the big bitch did it to herself by eating, then the big slut also did it to herself by fucking. In that case, let her whorish ass pay for two seats too.

People are humans whether they are fat or skinny, short or tall, or whores or goodie two shoes. And since they are humans, they should be treated as humans, not luggage, and not sideshow freaks. Nobody asked to be what they are and whether someone got fat by overeating or by medical reasons, believe me, no fat person wants to be fat.

maybe im heartless or i just dont understand her stance but i just have no sympathy for her problem

come on 400 ibs ...

some people dont have the luxruy to even on fly planes..

flying on a plane is not a necessity

SUPRMAN said:

CarrieMpls said:

That's all she's saying. Two thirds of americans are overweight or obese. We are the majority. It doesn't make sense for a business not to recognize that and make accomodations.

I have no problem with her approach. She's very reasonable about it. She's not acting "entitled".

Why does being the majority mean you should be accomodated on your terms?

Anyone is free to start an airline to accomodate overweight people. IF you are the majority, it should be a successful venture.

Should aisles in the grocery store be mandated to be wider to accomodate this majority too?

Aisles in grocery stores should be widened for safety reasons such as being free of displays in the middle of the aisles and being wide enough for several people to get through without falling all over each other on their way out if there is a fire. This, by the way, would also benefit extremely obese people and I'm sure people would oppose it since they love to hate fat people so much but when you throw those fire and safety reasons on their ass, then they look like a damn fool when they oppose them.

Grocery stores seem to get away with though because I've seen several that are so jam packed with displays that you can't even turn your shopping cart around in the aisle. I guess it's because they are individually owned. But if you go into a City owned building, they will throw those safety rules on visitors' asses real quick because they aren't about to have a lawsuit if someone gets hurt during an emergency situation. Put even a small handbag in the aisle at a City owned theater and see what happens.

vainandy said:

paintedlady said:

Let that fat-ass pay for two seats!

We shouldn't take on that expense!

Let that blind person keep that fucking dog at home!

I have allergies dammit!

Let that cripple crawl up the fucking stairs! Chair lifts and elevators?

Not MY problem!

We need peanuts on a plane, fuck that little brat and his peanut allergies!
I'm hungry dammit!

Shit... maybe we should ban those Middle-easterners from flying!

I'm tired of waiting in long lines and taking off my shoes!

We only care about issues if they affect us directly, and we all have our prejudices don't we? When we don't consider one type of person then where will it end?

Enable someone to get fatter? Really? Do you really hear yourselves? Wow.

Exactly! Many theaters have been forced by the ADA to have wheelchair seating sections such as a section set aside in the back of the theater that has spaces to park a wheelchair and permanent seats on each side of the gaps for companion seating. I've seen theaters seat an obese person by placing just a regular chair in one of the wheelchair slots and it works out fine. I mean, most shows aren't just overloaded with people in wheelchairs and they aren't overloaded with extremely obese people either.

Do airplanes even have any accomodations for people in wheelchairs? If they don't they should be forced to and the same accomodations could apply to extremely obese people also. Of course people would bitch about it though because they actually enjoy hating obese people. I've seen it my entire life with the treatment my own mother received and in 2011, I still can't believe this shit still goes on.

im conflicted right now with this because she just wants some comfort when traveling which is understandable

but her complaint is just not sitting well with me ...mmm

SUPRMAN said:

Nothinbutjoy said:

That's what I was thinking. If you are very large and need two seats there's no way you should be charged a full ticket price for the 2nd seat, but, the airline is a business and is losing a passenger behind one person needing two seats, so an additional charge is fair.

If you are in fact taking up two seats, why shouldn't you be charged for the second one?

That's like saying married couples should not have to pay full price for two tickets because they are now "as one" since they became married.

It's nothing at all like that. That is a disanalogy.

strmn said:

SUPRMAN said:

If you are in fact taking up two seats, why shouldn't you be charged for the second one?

That's like saying married couples should not have to pay full price for two tickets because they are now "as one" since they became married.

It's nothing at all like that. That is a disanalogy.

So taking up two seats isn't costing the airline a seat?

formallypickles said:

strmn said:

I'm sorry that I can't give a reference, but I'm almost certain that the US Supreme Court handed down a ruling a few years ago in the case of a passenger who was told to buy two seats because of weight/size. If I am remembering a correctly, the Supreme Court ruled that this violated The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). I'm sure that is why the woman in this situation refers in the video several times to "equal access" and "equal rights".

I'm actually rather shocked by some of the things people are saying in this thread. This is someone's sister, daughter, friend. Comparing her to luggage is dehumanizing, to say the least.

Incidentally, if you watched the video, you would know that she is not 400lbs. She used to be. Obviously, that number has been used to sensationalize the story (at her expense, I might add).

so either accommodate for this big bitch vs 400 people losing their job ...

Nobody is going to lose a job because a minority of people get the proper treatment they deserve. People lose their jobs working for airlines every day because those airlines are always finding ways to increase their profits which are in the millions annually. They exist not to provide people with a way to get to their nice holidays in warm countries where the inhabitants are poor but to make money for their shareholders. That is CAPITALISM.

[Edited 5/19/11 20:55pm]

formallypickles said:

vainandy said:

If it's so easy for someone to control what they eat, then it should be even easier for someone to control when they gap their legs open. If the big bitch did it to herself by eating, then the big slut also did it to herself by fucking. In that case, let her whorish ass pay for two seats too.

People are humans whether they are fat or skinny, short or tall, or whores or goodie two shoes. And since they are humans, they should be treated as humans, not luggage, and not sideshow freaks. Nobody asked to be what they are and whether someone got fat by overeating or by medical reasons, believe me, no fat person wants to be fat.

maybe im heartless or i just dont understand her stance but i just have no sympathy for her problem

come on 400 ibs ...

some people dont have the luxruy to even on fly planes..

flying on a plane is not a necessity

It is very easy to get up there. All my life, my mother was between 250 to 280 pounds. That may not seem that big on a man (well, a tall man anyway) but on a woman, it's very big. Especially considering that she wasn't as tall as the rest of us. All of us are over 6 feet tall but we get that from our father who is tall. She dieted off and on her entire life, she did the walking thing several times, she might lose a little weight and would gain it right back. She did get down to around 220 pounds once when I was a teenager which was very good for her.

It came back every time though. You don't just lose weight and it stays off forever. It will come right back because there are always constant temptations. It's easier to get off drugs than it is to lose weight and keep it off. If someone gets off drugs, their best bet is to stay away from people that do drugs and just never expose theirself to drugs. But with food, it's a different story. You have to eat to live so you are always going to be around food for the rest of your life. And with all the temptations out there, you are going to slip. Yes, you get right back on the diet again when you slip but there are times that you slip and it's damn hard to stop. It's like a mad dog getting a taste of blood. Once he tastes that blood, he will keep on fighting until he kills.

And when she got older, she started getting severe arthritis in her knees to the point that she would actually cry when she walked because it hurt so bad. She was big but she wasn't as huge as she became. She eventually had to retire early because it was such a strain on her knees when she walked. When she retired, that's when she really went downhill. She didn't leave the house at all unless it was absolutely necessary. She just sat around all day playing Yahoo Spades on the computer. She had her eating binges from time to time but I noticed that she really didn't just eat a whole lot. Her weight was creeping up on her because she was totally inactive and we couldn't get her to so much as walk to the kitchen to get her own bottled water. She drank that bottled water by the cases which eventually one of the things that killed her because all that water had her sodium level extremely low.

Anyway, part of her pain was because she had fluid in her legs. Her legs were so swollen. The doctor said the fluid would eventually spread to her heart and kill her. He told us some exercises she while sitting down such as holding her leg out straight and bending her feet but hell, how are you going to lose any weight doing exercises like those.

Her mind started going because her sodium level was so low from drinking all the bottled water. Hell, we didn't think anything of the bottled water because we thought water was good for you and would even help you lose weight. But too much water will kill your ass. I took her to the emergency room one day because she was punching numbers on her cell phone but when I asked her who she was calling, she didn't know. That's when we found out about what the water was doing to her and also found out why she was ballooning up but was hardly eating. The fluid in her legs had spread to her stomach. She was damn near 400 pounds. The hospital drained 100 pounds of fluid from her body. She didn't even look like the same person the day after they drained it. Her brain was shot though from all the water and she would not eat anything. We would have to spoon feed her like a baby or she wouldn't eat at all. Her brain was telling her that she couldn't swallow. She lost major weight laying in that hospital bed not eating anything. I would come up there after work when they would bring her supper and her lunch would be still sitting on the tray in front of her. If you didn't force her to eat, she wouldn't. When she died, she was less than 200 pounds. I had never seen her less than 200 pounds in my entire life. She had always wanted to be "normal" size more than anything in the world and she tried off and on her entire life to achieve it but was unsuccessful. She finally achieved it though by simply not eating anything because she felt like she couldn't swallow.

When you see an extremely obese person, you never know what their circumstances are. Every one of them have tried at some point of their life to lose weight and for some reason or other was unsuccessful. And also remember, that obese person also has family members that will fight to the very end for their rights and those family members have no sympathy for those who want to sit up and judge without knowing anything about that person's situation.

But flying is indeed a luxury and everyone doesn't have to fly. So if one "normal" size person couldn't make that particular flight because an obese person needed two seats, just remember, that "normal" size person doesn't have to fly either because it is also a luxury for them. And if they want to be pissed because of it, be pissed at the right person, the airline for not having big enough seats to begin with. And no they shouldn't have to pay for two seats because it is only one person that is flying. And the hell with rates being raised because of it. The airlines should be forced to eat that cost themselves for being so damn greedy. Those damn airlines can afford it but their tactic is to turn people against each other instead of them. But if people want to be manipulated and played for a fool by the airlines, then that's on them.

I dont think anyone who has posted is an "obese hater"... What it comes down to is this is a self inflicted "handicap".. These people are getting all sorts of handouts... why, because they are to big to get around,... why, because they have no self control.. why, because they just gave up...

Im not a hater... ive been overweight, but I had the sense to know when enough was enough and got my butt in gear and changed my way of life... I didnt sit back and wait for myself to get so big that I had to rely on other people to take care of me... That is just crazy to me that people will sit back and accept that as a way of life and do nothing to change their life for the better... People start the hating because those of us who arent 400 lbs get tired of hearing the "poor me, take care of me cuz im to lazy to do it myself" act....

And before any of you start jumping all over my shit for my comments, just remember, I dont agree with yours either... We can agree to disagree, Until you've walked in my shoes and know what I know, dont assume you are a better person than I am because you feel differently than I do...

I still dont believe it is a handicap... Because it is preventable and treatable...

[Edited 5/19/11 21:07pm]

tinaz said:

I dont think anyone who has posted is an "obese hater"... What it comes down to is this is a self inflicted "handicap".. These people are getting all sorts of handouts... why, because they are to big to get around,... why, because they have no self control.. why, because they just gave up...

Im not a hater... ive been overweight, but I had the sense to know when enough was enough and got my butt in gear and changed my way of life... I didnt sit back and wait for myself to get so big that I had to rely on other people to take care of me... That is just crazy to me that people will sit back and accept that as a way of life and do nothing to change their life for the better... People start the hating because those of us who arent 400 lbs get tired of hearing the "poor me, take care of me cuz im to lazy to do it myself" act....

And before any of you start jumping all over my shit for my comments, just remember, I dont agree with yours either... We can agree to disagree, Until you've walked in my shoes and know what I know, dont assume you are a better person than I am because you feel differently than I do...

I still dont believe it is a handicap... Because it is preventable and treatable...

[Edited 5/19/11 21:07pm]

I've been as big as 280 pounds my damn self at one point and I got down to 175 pounds in less than a year. It was damn hard and it took damn determination but I did it. I was also in my early 30s at the time which makes a difference also because it's easier to lose it when you're younger than when you get older. But not everybody is as stubborn as my ass and anyone on the org can see what an extremely stubborn person I am by my posts. But not everyone is that stubborn and determined. I lost mine because I got extremely pissed when I saw the word "obese" on the sheet of paper that had the results of a physical that my doctor gave me. And being the revengeful bitch that I am, I said to myself...."Obese! I'll show this bitch obese!" and I damn near starved my ass just to spite her.

But I've gained a lot of it back over the years. I gained a lot of it back right after my mother died. A lot hell, I damn near gained it all back. I was back up to 275 pounds. I got back on a diet last September and got down to 230 pounds. It was damn hard and even harder than before because I'm in my 40s now, plus I don't have near the determination that I did back then. But then the holidays came around and I started back eating again. When I went to the doctor in February, I was 240 pounds so I had only gained 10 pounds since the holidays but I still haven't started back to dieting and I hate to see what I weigh now. Every day, I say...."I'm getting back on it again next week" and I don't do it. Plus, money is tighter now and it's cheaper to eat fattening than healthy. I'm finally going to get pissed enough though and get back on it though because I feel my clothes feeling tighter and my ass can't afford to buy any new ones. But I know I can get my ass back down to around 220 or 230 pounds. That's the weight that everyone said I looked my best at because I'm a tall whore of 6' 5" (oh, don't get me started on the discrimination of the tall because it's out there too ). But when I was at my smallest at 175 pounds, people were calling me a crackhead because I'm so tall.

Yes, I've been there and done that also but even at my smallest, I never judged those that couldn't get their's off because it's too damn hard and plus I know my ass is capable of gaining it back also.

Be as big as you want, I could care less. But when your 'condition' invades my space and causes me discomfort on a bus, subway or plane, I'm going to say something about it.

vainandy said:

But I've gained a lot of it back over the years. I gained a lot of it back right after my mother died. A lot hell, I damn near gained it all back. I was back up to 275 pounds. I got back on a diet last September and got down to 230 pounds. It was damn hard and even harder than before because I'm in my 40s now, plus I don't have near the determination that I did back then. But then the holidays came around and I started back eating again. When I went to the doctor in February, I was 240 pounds so I had only gained 10 pounds since the holidays but I still haven't started back to dieting and I hate to see what I weigh now. Every day, I say...."I'm getting back on it again next week" and I don't do it. Plus, money is tighter now and it's cheaper to eat fattening than healthy. I'm finally going to get pissed enough though and get back on it though because I feel my clothes feeling tighter and my ass can't afford to buy any new ones. But I know I can get my ass back down to around 220 or 230 pounds. That's the weight that everyone said I looked my best at because I'm a tall whore of 6' 5" (oh, don't get me started on the discrimination of the tall because it's out there too ). But when I was at my smallest at 175 pounds, people were calling me a crackhead because I'm so tall.

also.

Lay off that damn soul food and stop putting fatback in those collard greens.

uPtoWnNY said:

vainandy said:

But I've gained a lot of it back over the years. I gained a lot of it back right after my mother died. A lot hell, I damn near gained it all back. I was back up to 275 pounds. I got back on a diet last September and got down to 230 pounds. It was damn hard and even harder than before because I'm in my 40s now, plus I don't have near the determination that I did back then. But then the holidays came around and I started back eating again. When I went to the doctor in February, I was 240 pounds so I had only gained 10 pounds since the holidays but I still haven't started back to dieting and I hate to see what I weigh now. Every day, I say...."I'm getting back on it again next week" and I don't do it. Plus, money is tighter now and it's cheaper to eat fattening than healthy. I'm finally going to get pissed enough though and get back on it though because I feel my clothes feeling tighter and my ass can't afford to buy any new ones. But I know I can get my ass back down to around 220 or 230 pounds. That's the weight that everyone said I looked my best at because I'm a tall whore of 6' 5" (oh, don't get me started on the discrimination of the tall because it's out there too ). But when I was at my smallest at 175 pounds, people were calling me a crackhead because I'm so tall.

also.

Lay off that damn soul food and stop putting fatback in those collard greens.

Them damn greens ain't even eatable without some bacon grease. I've lost plenty of weight eating greens even with the bacon grease with some cornbread but no meat. Meat is my weakness....uh...shut up y'all! And when my ass gets off work at 5:00 after not eating all day, I just stop somewhere and pick something up because I'm so damn hungry I don't have the patience to wait for something to cook.

I tell ya how I could really lose weight quick. If they would start making ass shakin' music again. When I lost all my weight back in 2001, there was still a little house music going on and I was in those clubs shaking plenty of ass (along with starving my damn self) and the more weight came off, the more dicks I got. If I got a dick one night, I'd starve myself that much more the next week trying to get another dick the next weekend. By the time I was having two and three dicks at the same time, my tall 6' 5" ass had made it down to 175 before I knew it and a lot of those whores were whispering thinking I had AIDS because the weight was coming off so fast and they also knew I had the dicks flowing like water at the time. I stopped going out for a while after my mother died and there was a rumor that I had died. I showed up a year later 50 pounds bigger and the whores looked like they had seen a ghost.

uPtoWnNY said:

Be as big as you want, I could care less. But when your 'condition' invades my space and causes me discomfort on a bus, subway or plane, I'm going to say something about it.

It doesn't invade your space or discomfort. If you have issues with space and discomfort, perhaps you shouldn't go out in public. Or perhaps you should complain that the airlines have constructed vehicles which do not comfortably fit the majority of the people who use them.

Vendetta1 said:

paintedlady said:

Let that fat-ass pay for two seats!

We shouldn't take on that expense!

Let that blind person keep that fucking dog at home!

I have allergies dammit!

Let that cripple crawl up the fucking stairs! Chair lifts and elevators?

Not MY problem!

We need peanuts on a plane, fuck that little brat and his peanut allergies!
I'm hungry dammit!

Shit... maybe we should ban those Middle-easterners from flying!

I'm tired of waiting in long lines and taking off my shoes!

We only care about issues if they affect us directly, and we all have our prejudices don't we? When we don't consider one type of person then where will it end?

Enable someone to get fatter? Really? Do you really hear yourselves? Wow.

Co-sign

strmn said:

formallypickles said:

so either accommodate for this big bitch vs 400 people losing their job ...

Nobody is going to lose a job because a minority of people get the proper treatment they deserve. People lose their jobs working for airlines every day because those airlines are always finding ways to increase their profits which are in the millions annually. They exist not to provide people with a way to get to their nice holidays in warm countries where the inhabitants are poor but to make money for their shareholders. That is CAPITALISM.

[Edited 5/19/11 20:55pm]

Over the past twenty years, in aggregate I bet only Southwest has been consistently profitbable.

Commercial aviation is not a profit center.

The five biggest U.S. airlines reported a combined loss of more than $1 billion for the first quarter, mostly due to surging jet fuel prices. But the total loss was only about $100 million more than a year ago even though jet fuel spending jumped by 28 percent.

http://seekingalpha.com/a...e-to-short

As shown in Figure 1, the total net profits of world airlines have shown tremendous volatility over the past 15 years. After the world airline industry posted 4 consecutive years of losses totaling over $22 billion from 1990 to 1993, as a result of the Gulf War and subsequent economic recession, it returned to record profitability in the late 1990s, with total net profits in excess of $25 billion being reported by world airlines from 1995 to 1999. Even more dramatic was the industry’s plunge into record operating losses and a financial crisis between 2000 and 2005, with cumulative net losses of $40 billion.

FIGURE 1: WORLD AIRLINE NET PROFITS 1989-2006

Deregulation and Liberalization Worldwide

Since the deregulation of US airlines in 1978, the pressure on governments to reduce their involvement in the economics of airline competition has spread to most of the rest of the world. The US experience with airline deregulation is perceived to be a success by other countries, as the overall benefits to the vast majority of air travelers have been clearly demonstrated. While US domestic air travel grew at rates significantly greater than prior to deregulation, average real fares declined since deregulation and today remain at less than half of 1978 levels [2]. Several successful new entrant and low-fare airlines had a great impact both on airline pricing practices and on the public’s expectations of low-priced air travel. And, despite worries at the time of deregulation that competitive cost pressures might lead to reduced maintenance standards, there is no statistical evidence that airline safety deteriorated.

At the same time, the US deregulation experience had some potentially more negative impacts. The pressure to cut costs, combined with increased profit volatility, mergers and bankruptcies of several airlines led to periodic job losses, reduced wages and airline labor unions with less power than they previously enjoyed. Furthermore, the benefits of deregulation were not enjoyed equally by all travelers. Residents of small US cities saw changes in the pattern of air service to their communities, as smaller regional airlines replaced previously subsidized jet services. And, despite a substantial decrease in the average real fare paid for air travel in US domestic markets, the disparity between the lowest and highest fares offered by airlines increased, aggravating business travelers forced to pay the higher fares. The development of large connecting hubs by virtually all US major airlines also raised concerns about the pricing power of dominant airlines at their hub cities.

[EDITED}

http://web.mit.edu/airlin...ustry.html

vainandy said:

uPtoWnNY said:

Lay off that damn soul food and stop putting fatback in those collard greens.

Them damn greens ain't even eatable without some bacon grease. I've lost plenty of weight eating greens even with the bacon grease with some cornbread but no meat. Meat is my weakness....uh...shut up y'all! And when my ass gets off work at 5:00 after not eating all day, I just stop somewhere and pick something up because I'm so damn hungry I don't have the patience to wait for something to cook.

I tell ya how I could really lose weight quick. If they would start making ass shakin' music again. When I lost all my weight back in 2001, there was still a little house music going on and I was in those clubs shaking plenty of ass (along with starving my damn self) and the more weight came off, the more dicks I got. If I got a dick one night, I'd starve myself that much more the next week trying to get another dick the next weekend. By the time I was having two and three dicks at the same time, my tall 6' 5" ass had made it down to 175 before I knew it and a lot of those whores were whispering thinking I had AIDS because the weight was coming off so fast and they also knew I had the dicks flowing like water at the time. I stopped going out for a while after my mother died and there was a rumor that I had died. I showed up a year later 50 pounds bigger and the whores looked like they had seen a ghost.

OK...WOW!..this is gonna be a funny story. I wasn't familiar with you at ll and had been skimming your posts. I got to this one and felt that the candor in it was just too funny, I started to gut laugh and tell my roommate what I tought was goin on! This ho...(there's NOTHING wrong with being a ho, people have every right to go out and get their hump on with whomever and how ever they please) was loosin weight from dancin and fuckin and havin fun. We had a plast and gut busted around the apartment. It was damn fun.

Then I sat don to type wht I am typing now

I mis keyed and deleted what I had typed and in my search for possibling finding my missing post, Ifell accross your profile which I had clicked open in a background window to possible see what this weight problem entail.

That's that the REAL LAUGHING began. We had assumed it was a chick the whole time. I unno why now. It makes so much more since knowing what I know.

This has been the funniest 20 minutes of this month for me...and it's more than half ove...CONGRATS!!!!

I really want to apologize if you take offense to any of this but judging from your candor and profile page. We'll be cool!. .......wow....

edit: I think I assumed it was chick because it was a weight issue being discussed and in my feeble mind, I tend to associate weight issues with women...then there was all the dick, it reinforced that assumption. I feel like davy in that Mt. Dew commercial. "Tommy...we got hosed".

[Edited 5/20/11 1:46am]

You know when I first read the title of this thread I was pessimistic. Oh here we go. Large person wants to get an extra seat...But if you listen to her, she makes a great point. Americans are larger than we were 50 years ago. The seats are small and uncomfortable to say the least. I weigh 204 lbs, and I'm 6 ft tall. I'm not fat, but I'm not thin either. And it's not easy sitting next to people my same size in coach.

To say it's her fault is not really correct. Americans in general are bigger. We eat bad food, we don't live active lives. Good food is not cheap, getting to the gym is expensive. Having a job behind a desk is not condusive to a healthy lifestyle.

I'm not saying we can't lose weight. I could lose 15 to 20 lbs myself. But our lifestyles, more often than not, only add to the overall problem of our overweightness and obesity.

tinaz said:

So heres just my take on this situation..

Say the airlines do make wider seats, that makes LESS seating which will raise the price of a ticket even MORE... Why should I pay more money because you cant fit in a seat... I am not unsympathetic to her problem, BUT where does it end..

Lat time I flew a couple months ago we had the most irratating mother and her child WHO NEVER SHUT HER MOUTH for the entire flight.. Talking is one thing, but if this girl had nothing to say, shed make shit up... even the mom said "i cant believe you have been up sinc 6 and havent stopped talking the whole time... not to mention the girl always kicking the backs of our seats, and their baby who loved to throw things and scream every 5 minutes when it didnt get his way.. I paid alot of money for those tickets, and it was the worst flight EVER!

So maybe i should contact CNN to push for airlines to have children only flights because I should not have to put up with someone elses unruly children..

You don't have kids I'm guessing. I have 3 little ones. You can't keep a baby quiet no matter what you do. Sorry but that's a part of life. Sometimes you get on a bus, or a plane, or a subway with toddlers and babies.

Kids get unruly. As a parent you try to do everything you can to keep their voices down, to keep them from crying, to stop walking down the aisle, to use inside voices. But you can only do so much.

Try to remember you were a child once. Were you quiet everywhere you went? Of course not. Nor was I. Especially being cramped up on a plane for a few hours. Kids aren't like us. They want to play, and wander, and have fun, and when they get hungry or tired. Watch out.

I've been on both ends by the way. Before I had kids it was hard to understand. I couldn't imagine why my sisters wanted kids. Changing diapers, feeding them bottles, a new bike every two years, and new clothes, hospital bills, cell phones, etc etc. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. Even on a small, cramped airplane.

XNY said:

tinaz said:

So heres just my take on this situation..

Say the airlines do make wider seats, that makes LESS seating which will raise the price of a ticket even MORE... Why should I pay more money because you cant fit in a seat... I am not unsympathetic to her problem, BUT where does it end..

Lat time I flew a couple months ago we had the most irratating mother and her child WHO NEVER SHUT HER MOUTH for the entire flight.. Talking is one thing, but if this girl had nothing to say, shed make shit up... even the mom said "i cant believe you have been up sinc 6 and havent stopped talking the whole time... not to mention the girl always kicking the backs of our seats, and their baby who loved to throw things and scream every 5 minutes when it didnt get his way.. I paid alot of money for those tickets, and it was the worst flight EVER!

So maybe i should contact CNN to push for airlines to have children only flights because I should not have to put up with someone elses unruly children..

You don't have kids I'm guessing. I have 3 little ones. You can't keep a baby quiet no matter what you do. Sorry but that's a part of life. Sometimes you get on a bus, or a plane, or a subway with toddlers and babies.

Kids get unruly. As a parent you try to do everything you can to keep their voices down, to keep them from crying, to stop walking down the aisle, to use inside voices. But you can only do so much.

Try to remember you were a child once. Were you quiet everywhere you went? Of course not. Nor was I. Especially being cramped up on a plane for a few hours. Kids aren't like us. They want to play, and wander, and have fun, and when they get hungry or tired. Watch out.

I've been on both ends by the way. Before I had kids it was hard to understand. I couldn't imagine why my sisters wanted kids. Changing diapers, feeding them bottles, a new bike every two years, and new clothes, hospital bills, cell phones, etc etc. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. Even on a small, cramped airplane.

I wasn't a devil and I wasn't an angle...but when I was on a plane...my ma kep my ass in check for four hour. I wasn't wandering around the plane. I wasn't playing games. I sat in the dam chair. I wnet pee a cpl times, that was it. It was just me my bro and my ma...she didn't play around and she didn't beat us eather. We were quiet to. not silent...but quiet.

SUPRMAN said:

strmn said:

Nobody is going to lose a job because a minority of people get the proper treatment they deserve. People lose their jobs working for airlines every day because those airlines are always finding ways to increase their profits which are in the millions annually. They exist not to provide people with a way to get to their nice holidays in warm countries where the inhabitants are poor but to make money for their shareholders. That is CAPITALISM.

[Edited 5/19/11 20:55pm]

Over the past twenty years, in aggregate I bet only Southwest has been consistently profitbable.

Commercial aviation is not a profit center.

The five biggest U.S. airlines reported a combined loss of more than $1 billion for the first quarter, mostly due to surging jet fuel prices. But the total loss was only about $100 million more than a year ago even though jet fuel spending jumped by 28 percent.

http://seekingalpha.com/a...e-to-short

As shown in Figure 1, the total net profits of world airlines have shown tremendous volatility over the past 15 years. After the world airline industry posted 4 consecutive years of losses totaling over $22 billion from 1990 to 1993, as a result of the Gulf War and subsequent economic recession, it returned to record profitability in the late 1990s, with total net profits in excess of $25 billion being reported by world airlines from 1995 to 1999. Even more dramatic was the industry’s plunge into record operating losses and a financial crisis between 2000 and 2005, with cumulative net losses of $40 billion.

FIGURE 1: WORLD AIRLINE NET PROFITS 1989-2006

Deregulation and Liberalization Worldwide

Since the deregulation of US airlines in 1978, the pressure on governments to reduce their involvement in the economics of airline competition has spread to most of the rest of the world. The US experience with airline deregulation is perceived to be a success by other countries, as the overall benefits to the vast majority of air travelers have been clearly demonstrated. While US domestic air travel grew at rates significantly greater than prior to deregulation, average real fares declined since deregulation and today remain at less than half of 1978 levels [2]. Several successful new entrant and low-fare airlines had a great impact both on airline pricing practices and on the public’s expectations of low-priced air travel. And, despite worries at the time of deregulation that competitive cost pressures might lead to reduced maintenance standards, there is no statistical evidence that airline safety deteriorated.

At the same time, the US deregulation experience had some potentially more negative impacts. The pressure to cut costs, combined with increased profit volatility, mergers and bankruptcies of several airlines led to periodic job losses, reduced wages and airline labor unions with less power than they previously enjoyed. Furthermore, the benefits of deregulation were not enjoyed equally by all travelers. Residents of small US cities saw changes in the pattern of air service to their communities, as smaller regional airlines replaced previously subsidized jet services. And, despite a substantial decrease in the average real fare paid for air travel in US domestic markets, the disparity between the lowest and highest fares offered by airlines increased, aggravating business travelers forced to pay the higher fares. The development of large connecting hubs by virtually all US major airlines also raised concerns about the pricing power of dominant airlines at their hub cities.

[EDITED}

http://web.mit.edu/airlin...ustry.html

This doesn't contradict what I said in the way that you might think it does. "Operating losses" are not losses to the shareholders. Corporations have fiduciary responsibilities to their shareholders which safeguard shareholders from such losses. Deregulation is at the heart of capitalism's engine.

Corporations such as Boeing are making millions in the arms industry. On that note, I HIGHLY recommend the film "Why We Fight" which will dispel any fantasies people might be holding onto about why the US went to war with/invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, not to mention, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Cuba, and so on and so forth.

[Edited 5/20/11 4:47am]

[Edited 5/20/11 4:48am]

SUPRMAN said:

paintedlady said:

Neither do disabled people... we accomidate them.

This is an issue of equality. Not all people are one size so they shouldn't only make one sized seating.

We shouldn't exclude certain people with any restrictions because of the airplane designers lack forsight.

The people who built the planes were the ones that made the situation a problem. They lacked vision, they should have included all people in their original design when making the seats in the first place.

[Edited 5/19/11 19:00pm]

Of course they included all people. 400lb people are the exception, not the rule. Why not accomodate 1,000 lb people, as it is known that people can get that heavy?

Why shouldn't cars and public transportation also have to cater the the extreme?

And while we're at it, there are a lot more people over 6'4 who fly than 400 lb people, but I see you conveniently ignore their needs. . . . . .

[Edited 5/19/11 20:21pm]

I didn't state one time in my post that I was only speaking of fat people, that is an assumption YOU made.

I said designers of airplanes (because its a principal of meeting customer needs and I see it as more of a cutomer service issue) should include people of ALL sizes and special needs.... because after all they are in the business to serve the PUBLIC , although privately owned... any airline would be savvy to include and market themselves as putting people first over the bottom line.

People are not simply cargo, we are customers... that is what makes us different from cattle... we PURCHASE tickets, we make those fuckers rich... so those people should cater to our needs just like other businesses do and consider any and all possible customer needs.

THAT is what will make any airline successful.

Why does this whole situation remind me of the Freedom Riders of the south? There was a time when people thought that it was wrong to let blacks and whites ride the same bus... yup, this is no different. Predjudice is prejudice.

Who wants to sit next to a fat person?

They should try to market that and see how far that takes them.

tinaz said:

I dont think anyone who has posted is an "obese hater"... What it comes down to is this is a self inflicted "handicap".. These people are getting all sorts of handouts... why, because they are to big to get around,... why, because they have no self control.. why, because they just gave up...

Im not a hater... ive been overweight, but I had the sense to know when enough was enough and got my butt in gear and changed my way of life... I didnt sit back and wait for myself to get so big that I had to rely on other people to take care of me... That is just crazy to me that people will sit back and accept that as a way of life and do nothing to change their life for the better... People start the hating because those of us who arent 400 lbs get tired of hearing the "poor me, take care of me cuz im to lazy to do it myself" act....

And before any of you start jumping all over my shit for my comments, just remember, I dont agree with yours either... We can agree to disagree, Until you've walked in my shoes and know what I know, dont assume you are a better person than I am because you feel differently than I do...

I still dont believe it is a handicap... Because it is preventable and treatable...

[Edited 5/19/11 21:07pm]

People are getting handouts for being fat? I'd like to sign up, then, cause I've been fat all my life and have not received one yet.

Also, not one person mentioned anyone being "better" than anyone, so if you've got a bit of guilt there, maybe it's best left examined on your own.

This isn't about being better, it's about having compassion.

As for the argument that no one HAS to fly, I'd like to see how you'd feel about that if your mother or sister or son was laying in a hospital bed across the ocean and you were told you don't have to fly to get there to see her/him.

CarrieMpls said:

tinaz said:

I dont think anyone who has posted is an "obese hater"... What it comes down to is this is a self inflicted "handicap".. These people are getting all sorts of handouts... why, because they are to big to get around,... why, because they have no self control.. why, because they just gave up...

Im not a hater... ive been overweight, but I had the sense to know when enough was enough and got my butt in gear and changed my way of life... I didnt sit back and wait for myself to get so big that I had to rely on other people to take care of me... That is just crazy to me that people will sit back and accept that as a way of life and do nothing to change their life for the better... People start the hating because those of us who arent 400 lbs get tired of hearing the "poor me, take care of me cuz im to lazy to do it myself" act....

And before any of you start jumping all over my shit for my comments, just remember, I dont agree with yours either... We can agree to disagree, Until you've walked in my shoes and know what I know, dont assume you are a better person than I am because you feel differently than I do...

I still dont believe it is a handicap... Because it is preventable and treatable...

[Edited 5/19/11 21:07pm]

People are getting handouts for being fat? I'd like to sign up, then, cause I've been fat all my life and have not received one yet.

Also, not one person mentioned anyone being "better" than anyone, so if you've got a bit of guilt there, maybe it's best left examined on your own.

This isn't about being better, it's about having compassion.

As for the argument that no one HAS to fly, I'd like to see how you'd feel about that if your mother or sister or son was laying in a hospital bed across the ocean and you were told you don't have to fly to get there to see her/him.

Thats the tone right there im talking about...