I'm rather surprised these kids aren't doing even one day behind bars. Not saying they should have gotten years of incarceration but wasn't their harassment severre enough to warrant a greater punishment than probation and community service? You could get jail time over cussing out a cop for christsakes.

This girl is dead now and GMA reported that the harassing teens actually encouraged Phoebe to kill herself.

Thoughts?

It really is a horrible and sad history.

Bullies don't have a conscience. They don't feel shame (only if it's about their own status, however never about what they inflicted to their prey).

I don't think jail would change that. I'm really happy I'm not a judge.

I do think I favor jail time for these girls. Especially as an example due to media coverage.

I'm favoring jail time as well and find it odd that the girls incessantly bullied Phoebe but they get no jail time while the guys who had sex with her (they being 18 and Phoebe being 15 or so) might definitely go to jail. From what I've read, the only reason Phoebe was bullied in the first place was because one of the girls either had a relationship with they guys or wanted to so they deemed Phoebe as either competition or a threat.

I don't think I could handle being a teenager in today's culture. Too many kids are crazy.

Well, I still think it is saver and better compared to being a teenager in the middle ages.

dJJ said:

Well, I still think it is saver and better compared to being a teenager in the middle ages.

As a teen in the middle ages, I don't think you'd be harassed so much by your peers that you would be forced into suicide; unless you were a political agitator or heathen.

aaah kids.

^ They would just hang them

dJJ said:

^ They would just hang them

Or maybe hang Phoebe too since she was supposed to be a "whore" and all.

No such thing as probation in the middle ages that's for dang sure.

yeah, the good 'ol days,

when a hanging was a public event, a family's day out together.

And because water was dirty, children also drank beer and wine. And a teenager was considered adult. Had to work for their bread and roof.

dJJ said:

yeah, the good 'ol days,

when a hanging was a public event, a family's day out together.

And because water was dirty, children also drank beer and wine. And a teenager was considered adult. Had to work for their bread and roof.

Ick! Couldn't live through those times.

Exactly. I apreciate the comfort and luxury of contemporary times in the Western countries.

Wouldn't want to trade. Not even with a few decades ago. Then I still had to oblige my man. And would be considered estranged for being sinle and no kids.

Now, I can fully enjoy it.

HotGritz said:

I'm favoring jail time as well and find it odd that the girls incessantly bullied Phoebe but they get no jail time while the guys who had sex with her (they being 18 and Phoebe being 15 or so) might definitely go to jail. From what I've read, the only reason Phoebe was bullied in the first place was because one of the girls either had a relationship with they guys or wanted to so they deemed Phoebe as either competition or a threat.

i agree.... they go to jail, community service would not b enough punishment

dJJ said:

Well, I still think it is saver and better compared to being a teenager in the middle ages.

there was no such thing as being a teen back the, you were already an adult and already had kids of your own most likely

Teenage/adolescence is a 20th century invention, a post-war thing dreamed up by advertisers to further segment the market to sell stuff to.

HotGritz said:

dJJ said:

^ They would just hang them

Or maybe hang Phoebe too since she was supposed to be a "whore" and all.

No such thing as probation in the middle ages that's for dang sure.

I'm sure only Phoebe herself would be, the other girls (unless whores themselves) would be correct in shunning or stoning her. Men can't help themselves, they aren't accountable in times of temptation.

ZombieKitten said:

HotGritz said:

Or maybe hang Phoebe too since she was supposed to be a "whore" and all.

No such thing as probation in the middle ages that's for dang sure.

I'm sure only Phoebe herself would be, the other girls (unless whores themselves) would be correct in shunning or stoning her. Men can't help themselves, they aren't accountable in times of temptation.

I wished that was in the past

Man who still want to have that middle aged power over women, just move to Asia, the Middle East or Africa. Then you can be a master in a country where belittle or beat a women is more common culturel. No need to feel guilty about it there. Just feel like a master like all these man do.

dJJ said:

ZombieKitten said:

I'm sure only Phoebe herself would be, the other girls (unless whores themselves) would be correct in shunning or stoning her. Men can't help themselves, they aren't accountable in times of temptation.

I wished that was in the past

Man who still want to have that middle aged power over women, just move to Asia, the Middle East or Africa. Then you can be a master in a country where belittle or beat a women is more common culturel. No need to feel guilty about it there. Just feel like a master like all these man do.

I know, as I typed that certain cultures came to mind. Women are blamed for their own rapes!

Yeah, real man are though!

Well, I should stop, before I start to rant about testosteroncarriers.

dJJ said:

Yeah, real man are though!

Well, I should stop, before I start to rant about testosteroncarriers.

better to call them Y chromosomers since women have testosterone (albeit in smaller amounts).

And fuck, men created these stupid and sexually biased laws...we women are just gullible enough to go along with and help maintain them.

HotGritz said:

dJJ said:

Yeah, real man are though!

Well, I should stop, before I start to rant about testosteroncarriers.

better to call them Y chromosomers since women have testosterone (albeit in smaller amounts).

And fuck, men created these stupid and sexually biased laws...we women are just gullible enough to go along with and help maintain them.

I made the term up deliberately. It's the level of testosterone that seems to enhance aggressive and irresponsible behaviour.

dJJ said:

HotGritz said:

better to call them Y chromosomers since women have testosterone (albeit in smaller amounts).

And fuck, men created these stupid and sexually biased laws...we women are just gullible enough to go along with and help maintain them.

I made the term up deliberately. It's the level of testosterone that seems to enhance aggressive and irresponsible behaviour.

I like that you said "enhance".

in part the school is to blame for allowing this behavior.

in part it is phoebe's 'fault' for not insisting it be addressed by the proper authorities.

in part it is the fault of the bully assholes who live to hurt other people.

in part it is the fault of a social system that fosters bullies

jail time is not appropriate in this matter, imo

XxAxX said:

in part the school is to blame for allowing this behavior.

in part it is phoebe's 'fault' for not insisting it be addressed by the proper authorities.

in part it is the fault of the bully assholes who live to hurt other people.

in part it is the fault of a social system that fosters bullies

jail time is not appropriate in this matter, imo

I agree with some of what you are saying, however don't blame Phoebe one bit. I was bullied relentlessly when I was her age and the last thing I wanted was for people on the "outside" to know. I was humiliated enough at school...didn't want it to drift into my life outside of school. When I left school, I just wanted to escape the hell. Yes, she should have said something, but there is no way she is at "fault".

Also, I think jail time was warrented in this case...if it only was for a short sentence. It would've spoken volumes to other bullies out there.

Phoebe's mother is a better Christian than I am because she forgives these rat bastards. I couldn't do it. The fact that in a year's time they will be laughing, partying, enjoying college life , getting jobs and going on to have families of their own while Phoebe's body lay decaying in the ground is just horrible. Not saying they should have gotten years of incarceration but they should have served some time for what they did to that girl; what they did to her family who has to live with the loss of a child.

Poplife88 said:

XxAxX said:

in part the school is to blame for allowing this behavior.

in part it is phoebe's 'fault' for not insisting it be addressed by the proper authorities.

in part it is the fault of the bully assholes who live to hurt other people.

in part it is the fault of a social system that fosters bullies

jail time is not appropriate in this matter, imo

I agree with some of what you are saying, however don't blame Phoebe one bit. I was bullied relentlessly when I was her age and the last thing I wanted was for people on the "outside" to know. I was humiliated enough at school...didn't want it to drift into my life outside of school. When I left school, I just wanted to escape the hell. Yes, she should have said something, but there is no way she is at "fault".

Also, I think jail time was warrented in this case...if it only was for a short sentence. It would've spoken volumes to other bullies out there.

I rarely have been bullied. The times it did happen, during my teen years, I do still remember and were painfull. It were girls who projected their own insecurities on me. And a boy who couldn't handle rejection.

One girl phoned me a decade later. Saying sorry that she told the whole school made up stories about me, because she was jalous that all the boys liked me.

I never knew that. I believed she was one of my few friends. I hated that she called me and told me the truth.

The boy apologized to me when I ran in to him years later. Still think it's an sorry ass.

However, the carnivore bullies can only operate by the strategy of isolating their victim.

A bully oftentimes is the unknown leader in the back. That person starts to talk and judge about the victim to others, with the intention to form an army.

Others start to hate the prey, based on the carnivores tone of the story. The carnivore makes sure it is based on a real flaw of the prey. That flaw is exaggareted and placed in the context that justifies the bullying (she needs to learn, she could just choose a different path, she does it in purpose).

The army will start to bully and weaken the prey. The leading carnivore will enhance the bullying of the group by stipulating and blow up every flaw and fault the weaker prey makes. The bully is not recognized as such, because invisible at the background, making sure not to bully herself/ himself, so can never be hold accountable for that.

In the end the prey is so stressed out, depressed and without support, that she/he will obviously make more mistakes and bad decisions.

This will be proof for the carivore bully, who enjoys his/her power and goes on....untill the prey is removed. To the carnivore, that is victory.

And when the prey dies, the group of army will hold still. Because they are too ashamed of their behavior. And the carnivore bully hides behind the planned strategy "I didn't do it.". And that is true, the realy bully is oftentimes innocent of overt bullying. Because that person is a master strategist.

In order to intervene in the process, the most succesfull way is to make sure not to get isolated. This is hard, because only prey with a low self esteem get bullied. Because bully know they won't tell the school and/or parents.

I think at schools the strategy that a bully performs should be taught. Then children can recognize a bully and make sure that they don't join his or her army.

I've always been a righteous character. I did a presentation when I was 11 about the book "The wave". I talked about Pinochet and WWII. And how the wave explains how that isn't a rare human social process. It still is a great book about bullying. At least, that's what I think

(Yeah, as a kid I was already weird )