paintedlady said:

Vendetta1 said:

I'm against it but I think it would be a bit foolish to comment on how other parents raise their kids.

I don't think the parental non-spankers are judging any parent that does spank... or vice versa.

I think it would be good for me to hear how a non-spanker deals with safety issues that come up in child-rearing. I think much can be learned from posts of that sort.

People just come in and say "I don't spank" nothing else... I think it robs of us provocative discussion and possible teaching oppurtunity. IHMO

What exactly do you want to know?

Um, if my kid were to try and put his hand on a stove burner, I would grab it and move him away and explain why not to touch it.

But then again, I've never had my kid do something like that because I've already explained the dangers long before he is close enough to get into trouble.

I also disagree with the comment that kids can be too young to understand so a smack works better.

Sure, you can't watch your kid 24/hrs a day...but I take the time to explain A LOT before he's having any independent time.

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

I don't think the parental non-spankers are judging any parent that does spank... or vice versa.

I think it would be good for me to hear how a non-spanker deals with safety issues that come up in child-rearing. I think much can be learned from posts of that sort.

People just come in and say "I don't spank" nothing else... I think it robs of us provocative discussion and possible teaching oppurtunity. IHMO

What exactly do you want to know?

Um, if my kid were to try and put his hand on a stove burner, I would grab it and move him away and explain why not to touch it.

But then again, I've never had my kid do something like that because I've already explained the dangers long before he is close enough to get into trouble.

I also disagree with the comment that kids can be too young to understand so a smack works better.

Sure, you can't watch your kid 24/hrs a day...but I take the time to explain A LOT before he's having any independent time.

How old are you talking about though? My youngest nephew is 3 and his speaking is a bit of a babbling combo of Thai and English. He appears to understand a lot, but it's not always easy to be sure without some kind of confirmation on his part. He was going for the electrical sockets and I made a quick but very deliberate decision to smack his hand pretty hard. I spoke to him about it afterwards too, of course, but I felt the smack was necessary, and not just because of the immediate danger. I taught him "don't touch" and he appears to understand the meaning of that in relation to a bunch of things now, which pretty much means smacking him for that kind of thing is no longer necessary, but I feel it was a sound decision to smack him at that time.

Fauxie said:

JustErin said:

What exactly do you want to know?

Um, if my kid were to try and put his hand on a stove burner, I would grab it and move him away and explain why not to touch it.

But then again, I've never had my kid do something like that because I've already explained the dangers long before he is close enough to get into trouble.

I also disagree with the comment that kids can be too young to understand so a smack works better.

Sure, you can't watch your kid 24/hrs a day...but I take the time to explain A LOT before he's having any independent time.

How old are you talking about though? My youngest nephew is 3 and his speaking is a bit of a babbling combo of Thai and English. He appears to understand a lot, but it's not always easy to be sure without some kind of confirmation on his part. He was going for the electrical sockets and I made a quick but very deliberate decision to smack his hand pretty hard. I spoke to him about it afterwards too, of course, but I felt the smack was necessary, and not just because of the immediate danger. I taught him "don't touch" and he appears to understand the meaning of that in relation to a bunch of things now, which pretty much means smacking him for that kind of thing is no longer necessary, but I feel it was a sound decision to smack him at that time.

I'm talking about any age. What I am saying is you can teach "don't touch" without hitting.

I did.

JustErin said:

Fauxie said:

How old are you talking about though? My youngest nephew is 3 and his speaking is a bit of a babbling combo of Thai and English. He appears to understand a lot, but it's not always easy to be sure without some kind of confirmation on his part. He was going for the electrical sockets and I made a quick but very deliberate decision to smack his hand pretty hard. I spoke to him about it afterwards too, of course, but I felt the smack was necessary, and not just because of the immediate danger. I taught him "don't touch" and he appears to understand the meaning of that in relation to a bunch of things now, which pretty much means smacking him for that kind of thing is no longer necessary, but I feel it was a sound decision to smack him at that time.

I'm talking about any age. What I am saying is you can teach "don't touch" without hitting.

I did.

How did you do it? I think that's what paintedlady was talking about. I know kids, and ppls' situations, are all a little different, but it would still be interesting to know. From my point of view it's a choice though. I don't think excessive smacking or too frequent yelling works, for example, but my goal when looking after my nephews isn't to avoid smacking at all costs. I think occasional smacking works so it's just part of how I discipline them.

Lammastide said:

:clap:

Fauxie said:

JustErin said:

I'm talking about any age. What I am saying is you can teach "don't touch" without hitting.

I did.

How did you do it? I think that's what paintedlady was talking about. I know kids, and ppls' situations, are all a little different, but it would still be interesting to know. From my point of view it's a choice though. I don't think excessive smacking or too frequent yelling works, for example, but my goal when looking after my nephews isn't to avoid smacking at all costs. I think occasional smacking works so it's just part of how I discipline them.

Now that I think about it, I can't recall an electrical outlet or hot stove situation. Hmm... surely something like that happened to us.

But (and of course I could be wrong) maybe your nephew would understand just as well if you sternly grabbed his hands, pointed to the outlet and said, "NO!!!"

Please don't take this as my insisting you were wrong, BTW. I don't get into that sort of thing.

[Edited 4/28/11 9:19am]

Serious said:

Lammastide said:

I wish you weren't correct, but I bet you are.

It's a matter of commitment to me: commitment of restraint, creativity, patience, time, etc. It'd be so easy to, say, pop my daughter on the butt instead of reading her [img:$uid]http://www.mjoai.com/forum/images/smilies/ohnoyoudidnt.gif[/img:$uid] if, say, she was misbehaving at the grocery store. But I think I signed up for the challenge when I made her.

It's weird. Your emoticons usually show up as just text for me.

Fauxie said:

Serious said:

Lammastide said:

It's weird. Your emoticons usually show up as just text for me.

Same here.

Lammastide said:

For about a week or 2 now quite often but not always they show up as text only for me too. When they get quoted like now then they show up as emoticons though . I thought it was like that only on my computer. I wonder what the problem might be .

I don't know what the right answer.....but I sure hear a lot more kids cussing their parents out in public now a adays.

I think if my kid told me to fuck off....I don't think that I could just call a time out.

Lammastide said:

Fauxie said:

How did you do it? I think that's what paintedlady was talking about. I know kids, and ppls' situations, are all a little different, but it would still be interesting to know. From my point of view it's a choice though. I don't think excessive smacking or too frequent yelling works, for example, but my goal when looking after my nephews isn't to avoid smacking at all costs. I think occasional smacking works so it's just part of how I discipline them.

Now that I think about it, I can't recall an electrical outlet or hot stove situation. Surely something like that happened to us.

But (and of course I could be wrong) maybe your nephew would understand just as well if you sternly grabbed his hands, pointed to the outlet and said! "NO!!!"

Please don't take this as my insisting you were wrong, BTW. I don't get into that sort of thing.

[Edited 4/28/11 9:17am]

I won't take it that way, don't worry. I don't think there's a definitive right or wrong way. I guess the pudding proof is in the adults those kids become.

Maybe that would work and maybe he would understand just as well. That and add a firm smack and I think there's no room for doubt. I'm not just being flippant though. I just see it as sometimes being, depending on the kid and the situation, a tool that when used judiciously can be effective. Not the be all end all, just an option. Much of this dialogue assumes not smacking is the ultimate goal. A well-behaved child should be one of the goals, so anybody routinely smacking a child year on year as they grow up must surely reevaluate what they're doing in that case, but I'm not talking about trying to do everything possible to never smack a child. Given that no child is perfect and all children will misbehave at some point, employing discipline is inevitable, and I see smacking as having a place in that sometimes.

Have I made it sound like something someone might proactively support like free speech or gay rights? I don't enjoy smacking a child, and it's not something I've done that many times, but I don't feel guilty about it, put it that way. It's a choice. I don't see it as detrimental or a method used in lieu of being able to do something else.

I dunno, ask Dan or Carrie if Nong New's a sweet, well-behaved, patient, generous, affectionate, happy little boy, or otherwise. And Nong Golf's the better-behaved one. Just trying to help raise some sweet kids, and they're both awesome. I just do what I think is best at any given time.

jaimestarr79 said:

I don't know what the right answer.....but I sure hear a lot more kids cussing their parents out in public now a adays.

I think if my kid told me to fuck off....I don't think that I could just call a time out.

That kind of thing could never happen overnight though, I feel sure. That suggests a whole bunch of problems in a kid's upbringing that aren't recent.

jaimestarr79 said:

I don't know what the right answer.....but I sure hear a lot more kids cussing their parents out in public now a adays.

I think if my kid told me to fuck off....I don't think that I could just call a time out.

EXACTLY!!!

callin timeout doesn't surfice in some cases.

very quickly:

grandparents buy the kids the loudest toys to take home

just so the parents can see whut it was like when they were kids.

teachers tell your kids not to take any guff off parents,

but they only deal with the kids for a few hours a day

and when things get out of hand they call in the cops.

a spankin would do a lot of kids a lot of good

JustErin said:

paintedlady said:

I don't think the parental non-spankers are judging any parent that does spank... or vice versa.

I think it would be good for me to hear how a non-spanker deals with safety issues that come up in child-rearing. I think much can be learned from posts of that sort.

People just come in and say "I don't spank" nothing else... I think it robs of us provocative discussion and possible teaching oppurtunity. IHMO

What exactly do you want to know?

Um, if my kid were to try and put his hand on a stove burner, I would grab it and move him away and explain why not to touch it.

But then again, I've never had my kid do something like that because I've already explained the dangers long before he is close enough to get into trouble.

I also disagree with the comment that kids can be too young to understand so a smack works better.

Sure, you can't watch your kid 24/hrs a day...but I take the time to explain A LOT before he's having any independent time.

Parents spank for different reasons, but I laid out two examples of why I did spank. With regards of touching the stove and stuff, I did the same thing you did.

I take the time to speak to my children also, exactly the way you describe, worked for the boys.. not the girl.

I dunno, I guess it would have been nice want to speak of their experiences in child rearing from all perspectives.

Spanking a child is wrong. Spanking your own child is evil, a symbol of the failure of humankind to reach peaceful solutions...

if you wanna educate a child, TALK TO HIM/HER, teach him/her, punish him/her if necessary but do not spank him/her...

JoeTyler said:

Spanking a child is wrong. Spanking your own child is evil, a symbol of the failure of humankind to reach peaceful solutions...

if you wanna educate a child, TALK TO HIM/HER, teach him/her, punish him/her if necessary but do not spank him/her...

Did ALL that, in some situations it didn't work.

signed,

the evil mom with non-violent honor students that are an asset to their community.

paintedlady said:

JoeTyler said:

Spanking a child is wrong. Spanking your own child is evil, a symbol of the failure of humankind to reach peaceful solutions...

if you wanna educate a child, TALK TO HIM/HER, teach him/her, punish him/her if necessary but do not spank him/her...

Did ALL that, in some situations it didn't work.

signed,

the evil mom with non-violent honor students that are an asset to their community.

an evil action doesn't mean that a person is completely evil

another question: does a child need a punishment to begin with? Why do adults think that a child needs to be "corrected"? Why? In which situations? and WHY? I've seen MANY parents yelling at their children and then spaking them just because they were (repeatedly, but sweetly) asking for more ice-cream...if that's not evil, I don't know what is...

JoeTyler said:

Spanking a child is wrong. Spanking your own child is evil, a symbol of the failure of humankind to reach peaceful solutions...

if you wanna educate a child, TALK TO HIM/HER, teach him/her, punish him/her if necessary but do not spank him/her...

Didn't you just say 'I'll be damned if I want a kid'?

I didn't want to go there, and I don't have kids of my own, but given your views on not wanting kids 'spanking your own child is evil' does seem a little bit much.

Fauxie said:

Lammastide said:

Now that I think about it, I can't recall an electrical outlet or hot stove situation. Surely something like that happened to us.

But (and of course I could be wrong) maybe your nephew would understand just as well if you sternly grabbed his hands, pointed to the outlet and said! "NO!!!"

Please don't take this as my insisting you were wrong, BTW. I don't get into that sort of thing.

[Edited 4/28/11 9:17am]

I won't take it that way, don't worry. I don't think there's a definitive right or wrong way. I guess the pudding proof is in the adults those kids become.

Maybe that would work and maybe he would understand just as well. That and add a firm smack and I think there's no room for doubt. I'm not just being flippant though. I just see it as sometimes being, depending on the kid and the situation, a tool that when used judiciously can be effective. Not the be all end all, just an option. Much of this dialogue assumes not smacking is the ultimate goal. A well-behaved child should be one of the goals, so anybody routinely smacking a child year on year as they grow up must surely reevaluate what they're doing in that case, but I'm not talking about trying to do everything possible to never smack a child. Given that no child is perfect and all children will misbehave at some point, employing discipline is inevitable, and I see smacking as having a place in that sometimes.

Have I made it sound like something someone might proactively support like free speech or gay rights? I don't enjoy smacking a child, and it's not something I've done that many times, but I don't feel guilty about it, put it that way. It's a choice. I don't see it as detrimental or a method used in lieu of being able to do something else.

I dunno, ask Dan or Carrie if Nong New's a sweet, well-behaved, patient, generous, affectionate, happy little boy, or otherwise. And Nong Golf's the better-behaved one. Just trying to help raise some sweet kids, and they're both awesome. I just do what I think is best at any given time.

I respect this.

If you don't mind, I'd like to ask about something given your particular family arrangement. (And I hope I don't open a can of worms, given some of the recent energy here): You are a white Brit. (Surprise! ) Your family in Thailand are not. Were there ever any odd cultural apprehensions with you administering corporal discipline to your nephew? Apparently if there were, you all have functioned well enough to get over them, but I only imagine similar circumstances in some parts of the world (like the U.S. ) would further complicate this issue.

Fauxie said:

JoeTyler said:

Spanking a child is wrong. Spanking your own child is evil, a symbol of the failure of humankind to reach peaceful solutions...

if you wanna educate a child, TALK TO HIM/HER, teach him/her, punish him/her if necessary but do not spank him/her...

Didn't you just say 'I'll be damned if I want a kid'?

I didn't want to go there, and I don't have kids of my own, but given your views on not wanting kids 'spanking your own child is evil' does seem a little bit much.

using violence (even moderate, "controlled" violence) to reach an objective, seems like an evil action to me ...

paintedlady said:

ZombieKitten said:

I won't hit my kids. Nope.

I always wonder if I were raised in a different culture would I use spanking as a tool....

Its not shunned in America, but here when parents say that^^^ they say it because they claim to have better control of their children.

They don't spank because they have better techniques...

but not all techniques work on all kids. There is no one formula to raise kids.

I still think it is better to not spank if a parent sees it as abuse. If spankings will only cause them to parent less effectively, then no, most parents should NOT spank if they do not know how to use it on an emotional level. If it will cause the parent grief, guilt and shame.... then no, a parent should never spank.

You got that right! Its almost like you have to explore different methods of discipline to find what works best for the child e.g. what they positiviely respond to.

I find myself studying parents and their kids and I've seen all manner of behavior and how the kids react and sometimes...I swear....I want to beat the parent's ass for the shit they do.

The best behaved kids I've seen are those that had spanking as a last option and guidance as a first option.

SagsWay2low said:

I'm not keen on the idea that violence (and that's what it is) is a way of resolving conflicts.

Though, I've seen some kids who obviously weren't responding to other methods.

Is spanking violence though? What if the parent yells instead? That can be more violent than spanking cuz I've seen some parents flat out cuss at the kid and call them names while never laying a hand on them.

Fauxie said:

By many countries it is considered illegal because it is against the human rights so considering that it's not that far reaching to be against it and tell your mind even if somebody is not a parent IMO.

JoeTyler said:

paintedlady said:

Did ALL that, in some situations it didn't work.

signed,

the evil mom with non-violent honor students that are an asset to their community.

an evil action doesn't mean that a person is completely evil

another question: does a child need a punishment to begin with? Why do adults think that a child needs to be "corrected"? Why? In which situations? and WHY? I've seen MANY parents yelling at their children and then spaking them just because they were (repeatedly, but sweetly) asking for more ice-cream...if that's not evil, I don't know what is...

Well my daughter got a spanking because she insisted on drink water out the toilet for almost two years.

I tried everything... she would drink from all toilets. She loved it. I was so frustrated because I couldn't take her anywhere.

One time she even drank out of one that had pee and was like in my sister's home. She liked to sneak and steal the lotion to eat it also, and she loved to eat talcum powder.

She was a weird child. I learn to keep her away and warn her and talk to her, but she could navigate through child proof latches and my friend, a social worker ... always was like, try this, try that... her solutions never worked.

I let poop stay in the toilet and she stopped for a while, when she started again I finally spanked her. She stopped then finally, after two years of agonizing me.

Some kids are really stubborn... Nia never gave me any issues for spanking after that though, maybe once for lying to me repeatedly. yeah I think so...

I gave her like maybe 3 spankings in her life... I don't do it to hurt, but there is a threat factor invovled. When the talking, time outs and removing privaleges fail and they must understand they have to do what is asked of them, I will spank a child.

Some parents I see don't need to, they just say it and the child listens.... Nia is like that with her father. He never has to repeat himself. Sadly, he isn't a daily fixture in Nia's life. He may take the time to see her once maybe twice a year.

paintedlady said:

JoeTyler said:

an evil action doesn't mean that a person is completely evil

another question: does a child need a punishment to begin with? Why do adults think that a child needs to be "corrected"? Why? In which situations? and WHY? I've seen MANY parents yelling at their children and then spaking them just because they were (repeatedly, but sweetly) asking for more ice-cream...if that's not evil, I don't know what is...

Well my daughter got a spanking because she insisted on drink water out the toilet for almost two years.

I tried everything... she would drink from all toilets. She loved it. I was so frustrated because I couldn't take her anywhere.

One time she even drank out of one that had pee and was like in my sister's home. She liked to sneak and steal the lotion to eat it also, and she loved to eat talcum powder.

She was a weird child. I learn to keep her away and warn her and talk to her, but she could navigate through child proof latches and my friend, a social worker ... always was like, try this, try that... her solutions never worked.

I let poop stay in the toilet and she stopped for a while, when she started again I finally spanked her. She stopped then finally, after two years of agonizing me.

Some kids are really stubborn... Nia never gave me any issues for spanking after that though, maybe once for lying to me repeatedly. yeah I think so...

I gave her like maybe 3 spankings in her life... I don't do it to hurt, but there is a threat factor invovled. When the talking, time outs and removing privaleges fail and they must understand they have to do what is asked of them, I will spank a child.

Some parents I see don't need to, they just say it and the child listens.... Nia is like that with her father. He never has to repeat himself. Sadly, he isn't a daily fixture in Nia's life. He may take the time to see her once maybe twice a year.

Have you ever tried the toilet water? Maybe she knows something you don't know.

Lammastide said:

And I don't think anybody comes on this thread to judge parents who try their very best and struggle.

Lammastide said:

paintedlady said:

Well my daughter got a spanking because she insisted on drink water out the toilet for almost two years.

I tried everything... she would drink from all toilets. She loved it. I was so frustrated because I couldn't take her anywhere.

One time she even drank out of one that had pee and was like in my sister's home. She liked to sneak and steal the lotion to eat it also, and she loved to eat talcum powder.

She was a weird child. I learn to keep her away and warn her and talk to her, but she could navigate through child proof latches and my friend, a social worker ... always was like, try this, try that... her solutions never worked.

I let poop stay in the toilet and she stopped for a while, when she started again I finally spanked her. She stopped then finally, after two years of agonizing me.

Some kids are really stubborn... Nia never gave me any issues for spanking after that though, maybe once for lying to me repeatedly. yeah I think so...

I gave her like maybe 3 spankings in her life... I don't do it to hurt, but there is a threat factor invovled. When the talking, time outs and removing privaleges fail and they must understand they have to do what is asked of them, I will spank a child.

Some parents I see don't need to, they just say it and the child listens.... Nia is like that with her father. He never has to repeat himself. Sadly, he isn't a daily fixture in Nia's life. He may take the time to see her once maybe twice a year.

Have you ever tried the toilet water? Maybe she knows something you don't know.

Hell NO!!!

but I did eat lotion because of her...

Cetaphil lotion tastes like semi-sweet cherries... it is pretty good.

The talcum powder was NASTY... so was the corn starch.

It was cute with the lotion, if I lotioned her face she would let her tongue hang out and do her best to lick my hand.

If I lotioned her, I would have to hold her head gently so she wouldn't lick her arms or feet.

Nia is 8 and still likes to taste test the lotions I bring in the house.... I have to keep the lotion on my dresser.

She's spaychul. I don't know what possesed her to try it in the first place... goodness what will she be like if she's an adult in Sephora or Bath N Body works?

paintedlady said:

Lammastide said:

Have you ever tried the toilet water? Maybe she knows something you don't know.

Hell NO!!!

but I did eat lotion because of her...

Cetaphil lotion tastes like semi-sweet cherries... it is pretty good.

The talcum powder was NASTY... so was the corn starch.

It was cute with the lotion, if I lotioned her face she would let her tongue hang out and do her best to lick my hand.

If I lotioned her, I would have to hold her head gently so she wouldn't lick her arms or feet.

My childhood favorites were Comet Cleanser and little shots of unleaded gasoline (that my dad kept in bottles in our garage until my mom kicked his !#@$ for doing so ). Clearly, I have a very sophisticated palate.

paintedlady said:

JoeTyler said:

an evil action doesn't mean that a person is completely evil

another question: does a child need a punishment to begin with? Why do adults think that a child needs to be "corrected"? Why? In which situations? and WHY? I've seen MANY parents yelling at their children and then spaking them just because they were (repeatedly, but sweetly) asking for more ice-cream...if that's not evil, I don't know what is...

Well my daughter got a spanking because she insisted on drink water out the toilet for almost two years.

I tried everything... she would drink from all toilets. She loved it. I was so frustrated because I couldn't take her anywhere.

One time she even drank out of one that had pee and was like in my sister's home. She liked to sneak and steal the lotion to eat it also, and she loved to eat talcum powder.

She was a weird child. I learn to keep her away and warn her and talk to her, but she could navigate through child proof latches and my friend, a social worker ... always was like, try this, try that... her solutions never worked.

I let poop stay in the toilet and she stopped for a while, when she started again I finally spanked her. She stopped then finally, after two years of agonizing me.

Some kids are really stubborn... Nia never gave me any issues for spanking after that though, maybe once for lying to me repeatedly. yeah I think so...

I gave her like maybe 3 spankings in her life... I don't do it to hurt, but there is a threat factor invovled. When the talking, time outs and removing privaleges fail and they must understand they have to do what is asked of them, I will spank a child.

Some parents I see don't need to, they just say it and the child listens.... Nia is like that with her father. He never has to repeat himself. Sadly, he isn't a daily fixture in Nia's life. He may take the time to see her once maybe twice a year.

that was definitely a weird & long situation and I'm glad it's over...

hell I know that kids can be difficult (I'm not a father but I'm an uncle since I was 18), but I've seen so many parents spanking their kids because of trivial, little "mistakes" that I'm certainly bitter about yelling at/spaking a kid