LayDownMisty said:

hey, i grew up like your son

he is 12 so right now friendships are very important to him although he can't exactly express that

as long as you stay in the picture somehow, and don't make him feel guilty for not wanting to see you - you should be ok

hopefully the mom won't badmouth you to him

whenever i would visit my dad, all he did was sit in front of the tv watching football and i was away from my friends

anyway, hope this helps

Try not to take it to personally, and definitely don't try to lash back at him for hurting you.

He doesn't really know he's hurting you.

Continue to be there for him and be a great example for him.

Blackbob, I don't think you're out of place at all. You are a present, attentive, ostensibly functional and loving birth dad. Some kids never have that; your kid will never have another. Age 12 is a critical point to learn to honor such blessings and also to learn that relationships aren't all about ready gratification -- certainly not all about our own.

There's another layer to this: While it's really smart your kid has some working say into his own life (especially because parental separations already can feel like tyranny), consider that allowing a precedent wherein he might play the environment of one parent's household against that of another -- at will -- might be opening a can of worms as he enters the teen years. I've seen this sort of thing unfold, and it is u.g.l.y.

You and the ex would ideally take on these issues as a team, but banking on the fact you don't have such great partnership in this vein, you'd be smart to walk a ginger line. And your son mustn't become a pawn in any sort of odd tug-o-war. Have your son over, and I may break from others here in suggesting you even insist on it if that becomes necessary. But Mach's advice is golden: Realize that at his age, friends and creature comforts are major to him. Let him occasionally stay put some weekends, allow him to have a friend or cousin over sometimes, and while the worst thing you can do is make your place merely Disneyland for him, by all means create an environment to which he'd want to return for its comfort, calm, support and, sure, a bit of fun and stimulation.

Alongside this all, keep a thick skin. I'm guessing your son does love you; but he loves you as a 12 year old would just yet.

[Edited 4/25/11 7:20am]

Lammastide said:

Blackbob, I don't think you're out of place at all. You are a present, attentive, ostensibly functional and loving birth dad. Some kids never have that; your kid will never have another. Age 12 is a critical point to learn to honor such blessings and also to learn that relationships aren't all about ready gratification -- certainly not all about our own.

There's another layer to this: While it's really smart your kid has some working say into his own life (especially because parental separations already can feel like tyranny), consider that allowing a precedent wherein he might play the environment of one parent's household against that of another -- at will -- might be opening a can of worms as he enters the teen years. I've seen this sort of thing unfold, and it is u.g.l.y.

You and the ex would ideally take on these issues as a team, but banking on the fact you don't have such great partnership in this vein, you'd be smart to walk a ginger line. And your son mustn't become a pawn in any sort of odd tug-o-war. Have your son over -- and, yes, insist on it when need be. But Mach's advice is golden: Realize that at his age, friends and creature comforts are major to him. Let him have a friend or cousin over, and while the worst thing you can do is make your place merely Disneyland for him, by all means create an environment to which he'd want to return for its comfort, calm, support and, sure, a wee bit of fun.

Alongside this all, keep a thick skin. I'm guessing your son does love you; but he loves you as a 12 year old would just yet.

Excellent advice.

I agree that you should insist that he spend scheduled time at your place. Calmly and firmly. Like Lammie said, even something as benign as going along with his wishes can turn ugly - later he may look back and feel you didn't want to see him. Even though your son is the one saying he doesn't want to spend the time with you right now, kids will remember and internalize it when a parent appears all too happy to drift away/stay away. You are his father. Don't be afraid to strongly claim that space in his life - it will make a huge difference in his development.

I don't have a child. I have seen how these issues can have permanent and tragic effects on people, parents and children alike.

blackbob, I know you can only give your side, but I do see how your son's decisions are hurting you. He may be unduly influenced, he may have priorities of his own, but not being a part of -- and being apart from -- your son has got to hurt, if the father-son relationship means anything. It's just naive to think these things can't and shouldn't cause you hurt.

As a practical matter, making the home more welcoming with gadgets and friends and whatnot may work, but (and I'm really asking here) do those things actually put walls between you and your son? What happens when the friends stop coming and the XBox gets dated, and his interests shift?

Having an open door even when he doesn't want to walk through it is difficult, but it may be the way in the long run to a successful relationship.

Again, I can only hypothesize. And empathize. Good luck.

PositivityNYC said:

davetherave6767 said:

fuckinghell ive been living thru this hell 4 11 years blackbob & typing this 2u is dangerous 4me cuz it opens up alot of old wounds.im only allowed 2 c my son 4 10 mins b4 & after he attends the kingdom hall.me & my then wife were in2 jehovah in a massive way problem was my wife got more in2 the organization than me.b4 eye knew it jehovah was more important 2 my wife than me?we divorced & that first year was so painful 4 me.at one point eye sold everything eye owned & was ready 2 walk in2 the kingdom hall & kill my wife & my son & anybody else who got in my way!!!!eye had planned 2 go 2 prison 4 many years.2 cut 2 the quick my wife & son became jw eye didnt,eye lost my house my son & my wife 2 jehovah so eye had 2 move on.my son doesnt want 2 c me anymore he would rather knock doors & hand out the watchtower mag.over the years the pain has gone & ive learnt 2 cope with my loss.the strange thing is the kingdom hall my son attends is only 5 mins away from where eye live,eye pass it everyday going 2 work & now eye just laugh & have a little smile.u must b strong blackbob if ur son doesnt want 2cu theres nothing u can do!!!!!!just get on with ur life bob & b happy & oneday he will come & c his dad when the time is right.ive done all my crying been thru all my pain thats what has made me the man eye am 2day!!!but eye didnt go 2 prison & didnt hurt anybody.look after urself black bob.

that is not right... how is that even possible??

what was the custody/visitiation agreement when you got divorced, can't that be enforced?

Man, I hate ppl that do that mess.. my brother got full custody of both their kids (she is a crazy bitch...) -- there have been times where he refused to talk to her (he gave her his debit card # to pay some bill, and she wiped out that account), but he never keeps the kids from her, never talks bad about her around them. He figures when they grow up, they'll see for themselves how she is.

glad you didn't hurt anyone.. hope it gets better..

[Edited 4/25/11 5:51am]

the csa kick me in the bollocks once a month eye can live with that as 4 not seeing my son,thats all 2 do with him & his mum both being jw.they want me 2 carry a bell & shout unclean unclean.if ur not in there gang part of there group then ur nothing!!!

davetherave6767 said:

PositivityNYC said:

that is not right... how is that even possible??

what was the custody/visitiation agreement when you got divorced, can't that be enforced?

Man, I hate ppl that do that mess.. my brother got full custody of both their kids (she is a crazy bitch...) -- there have been times where he refused to talk to her (he gave her his debit card # to pay some bill, and she wiped out that account), but he never keeps the kids from her, never talks bad about her around them. He figures when they grow up, they'll see for themselves how she is.

glad you didn't hurt anyone.. hope it gets better..

[Edited 4/25/11 5:51am]

the csa kick me in the bollocks once a month eye can live with that as 4 not seeing my son,thats all 2 do with him & his mum both being jw.they want me 2 carry a bell & shout unclean unclean.if ur not in there gang part of there group then ur nothing!!!

I get the sucktastic religious crap she is imposing on you, but, was there no legally-binding agreement made on how much time your child spends with you after the divorce?

Like, with my brother-- he was very generous and agreed to let the ex wife have the kids (they were toddlers then, but nephew is now almost 13, my niece just turned 10) to visit her for their summer vacation and alternating holidays (however, they don't actually spend much time with her b/c she's always inbetween jobs & places to live/boyfriends.. they usually go with her sister & the sister's husband for the summer, and our family for holidays).

~ However, if my brother didn't let her see them - and she made a stink about it - he'd be in trouble with the courts and would be forced to let her have them for the time they agreed upon in the divorce.

That's what I'm trying to get at here; is there no court that you can go to and say "Hey, my ex wife is not letting me see my child--how do we make that happen?"

edit typo

[Edited 4/25/11 14:30pm]

The preteen years are so delicate. My children does that to their dad and they have no choice b/c they are still young but when you get to >12, yeah, everything you do can make or break your relationship. You was 12 once, you know them hormones were raging, everything annoyed you, noone cared, you are akward, stuff like that. Just tell him you want to spend sometime with him and pick a few things he might enjoy to do. What that other person said about picking a friend to join would be ok. Kids like skating, movies, swimming, fishing, games, stuff like that. You are the parent and you need to talk to his mother about having him visit with you if he likes it or not. I applaud you for wanting to spend time with your son b/c there are many parents out there that don't at all.

blackbob said:

Thanks for all the replies..been working so haven't had chance to reply ...take on board all that's been sent...I tried to contact my son on Facebook last night but he called me a wanker so I think I will just need to leave it for a while...I appreciate. All the replys.....thank you

blackbob said:

Thanks for all the replies..been working so haven't had chance to reply ...take on board all that's been sent...I tried to contact my son on Facebook last night but he called me a wanker so I think I will just need to leave it for a while...I appreciate. All the replys.....thank you

Christ Bob my heart goes out mate, but just hope he doesn't get into Prince and sees your fizzer posting all this stuff.

Number23 said:

blackbob said:

Thanks for all the replies..been working so haven't had chance to reply ...take on board all that's been sent...I tried to contact my son on Facebook last night but he called me a wanker so I think I will just need to leave it for a while...I appreciate. All the replys.....thank you

Christ Bob my heart goes out mate, but just hope he doesn't get into Prince and sees your fizzer posting all this stuff.

maybe if he did, he'd see he was being... [be nice.. be nice....]..... unnecessarily difficult.

wth is going on with this world where kids can even talk to their parents like that??

Number23 said:

blackbob said:

Thanks for all the replies..been working so haven't had chance to reply ...take on board all that's been sent...I tried to contact my son on Facebook last night but he called me a wanker so I think I will just need to leave it for a while...I appreciate. All the replys.....thank you

Christ Bob my heart goes out mate, but just hope he doesn't get into Prince and sees your fizzer posting all this stuff.

maybe if he did, he'd see he was being... [be nice.. be nice....]..... unnecessarily difficult.

wth is going on with this world where kids can even talk to their parents like that??

PositivityNYC said:

Number23 said:

Christ Bob my heart goes out mate, but just hope he doesn't get into Prince and sees your fizzer posting all this stuff.

maybe if he did, he'd see he was being... [be nice.. be nice....]..... unnecessarily difficult.

wth is going on with this world where kids can even talk to their parents like that??

That was what I was thinking!

Let my kid call me an asshole or something, and see how fast I drive over there to pop him upside his head!

Number23 said:

blackbob said:

Thanks for all the replies..been working so haven't had chance to reply ...take on board all that's been sent...I tried to contact my son on Facebook last night but he called me a wanker so I think I will just need to leave it for a while...I appreciate. All the replys.....thank you

Christ Bob my heart goes out mate, but just hope he doesn't get into Prince and sees your fizzer posting all this stuff.

.

.

hey where have you been ?...good to hear from you...i dont think i have put anything on here that is bad mouthing my son...i am just am not sure how to handle it....i am sure it will work itself out...cheers mate..

[Edited 4/26/11 17:33pm]

babynoz said:

tinaz said:

I too agree with mach... Hes 12... his friends are wayyyyy more important than his parents (in his mind) Remember being 12... I would of choosen to play with my friends rather than hang out with a parent...

As mach said, let him invite a buddy over... That should solve that problem... Its hard when you realize your babies dont wanna spend time with you anymore... First comes friends, then girls... He will come back around but it will never be the same as when he was small... Thats just a fact of life...But dont be sad by it, he still loves you but puberty is a BITCH

Yep, between the ages of 12 till around 21, parents are the lamest thing on earth. We know absolutely nothing and are only good for cash, meals and car keys.

After age 21, parents get smarter with each passing year.

Preach it, Ladies!

BklynBabe said:

If you need to borrow a kid, let me know!

PurpleJedi said:

BklynBabe said:

If you need to borrow a kid, let me know!

This makes me 2

BklynBabe said:

If you need to borrow a kid, let me know!

my sister's oldest daughter just turned 13; she's tryin' to give her away, too..

potty training and teen years... if I ever have a kid, I might be trying to give it away then, too..

blackbob said:

Thanks for all the replies..been working so haven't had chance to reply ...take on board all that's been sent...I tried to contact my son on Facebook last night but he called me a wanker so I think I will just need to leave it for a while...I appreciate. All the replys.....thank you

i don't have kids, but i know you're a good guy

i think facebook, texting and all that social networking stuff is the way to go, whether you like it or not

have a think about when you were 12 and what you were interested in. it won't be a million miles away

he may well just think that YOU left HIM and his mom is prolly wringing all the shit through his young tiny mind, so you can't blame him for growing up and thinking it's your fault. you can't live with him and only get so much time to spend with him, but being a kid he prolly wants to spend his spare time playing playstation and watching dvds and stuff like that, not spending time with parents. at that age the last people in the world i wanted to spend time with were my parents, and as time goes on and he shortly becomes a teenager it may well go deeper like that. didn't you have the kev and perry attutide that you hated your parents and life was unfair? that's prolly what will happen with him soon

but things are different now, you have more social networking tools, text messaging, email, PSN and xbox messaging, etc. so instead of wanting to take him to football matches and shit he doesn't want to do, especially not with parents, find the things he does like, via facebook and technology and try and maybe do things with him, even if it's just online, like playing xbox or ps3 online with him and the games HE likes, so you build up some kind of cooler closer friendship, and then maybe get tix to gigs of bands he likes and google up and pretend you've been into them since the first EP they released online only, and basicaly use peado grooming tactics to win him back

it may take time to do that, but be patient. he's a young kid that wants to grow up and doesn't want adults around. in a year or two get him into john hughes movies, they will be retro cool to him as all the current movies are now written by adults who are writing their own teenage dreams into flicks and making characters fucking smashing pumpkins and pixies fans, when at our age we had no fucking clue about those bands. and don't let him listen to prince. that shit fucks you up

BklynBabe said:

If you need to borrow a kid, let me know!

i'm feeling ya!

unique said:

blackbob said:

Thanks for all the replies..been working so haven't had chance to reply ...take on board all that's been sent...I tried to contact my son on Facebook last night but he called me a wanker so I think I will just need to leave it for a while...I appreciate. All the replys.....thank you

i don't have kids, but i know you're a good guy

i think facebook, texting and all that social networking stuff is the way to go, whether you like it or not

have a think about when you were 12 and what you were interested in. it won't be a million miles away

he may well just think that YOU left HIM and his mom is prolly wringing all the shit through his young tiny mind, so you can't blame him for growing up and thinking it's your fault. you can't live with him and only get so much time to spend with him, but being a kid he prolly wants to spend his spare time playing playstation and watching dvds and stuff like that, not spending time with parents. at that age the last people in the world i wanted to spend time with were my parents, and as time goes on and he shortly becomes a teenager it may well go deeper like that. didn't you have the kev and perry attutide that you hated your parents and life was unfair? that's prolly what will happen with him soon

but things are different now, you have more social networking tools, text messaging, email, PSN and xbox messaging, etc. so instead of wanting to take him to football matches and shit he doesn't want to do, especially not with parents, find the things he does like, via facebook and technology and try and maybe do things with him, even if it's just online, like playing xbox or ps3 online with him and the games HE likes, so you build up some kind of cooler closer friendship, and then maybe get tix to gigs of bands he likes and google up and pretend you've been into them since the first EP they released online only, and basicaly use peado grooming tactics to win him back

it may take time to do that, but be patient. he's a young kid that wants to grow up and doesn't want adults around. in a year or two get him into john hughes movies, they will be retro cool to him as all the current movies are now written by adults who are writing their own teenage dreams into flicks and making characters fucking smashing pumpkins and pixies fans, when at our age we had no fucking clue about those bands. and don't let him listen to prince. that shit fucks you up

u gave him grooming tips!!

seriously blackbob, your kid will resent u 4 leaving (whatever) but he will love u cuz you're his dad.

my tips would be:

don't pressure him too much, give him some space, be cool & understanding. be careful to NEVER slag his mum off.

just make it clear that u are always there 4 him, that u love him & proud of him!

& like unique says regular texting & FB will go down well

best of luck