It just dawned on me. Almost everyone I know is bilingual now. 30% are multi-lingual speaking 3 or some times 4 languages.

I know a New Zealander who speaks fluent Thai, English (of course), Chinese, and 2 dialects in the Philippines (Tagalog and some obscure colloquial dialect).

I have struggled and struggled to learn Spanish (which theoretically should be easy for an English speaker compared to some other languages) But could do little more than order food at a Cuban restaurant.

i'm currently learning Thai, and it is ....challenging.

I asked my friends how they learned and all of them say television or reading.

This to me seems like it isn't enough.

I'm getting a little bit frustrated at my skill level. I've been in Thailand for a year and a half, and can carry on on very basic conversations, and am often misunderstood when I pronounce words.

For those of you Bis out there, how did you do it?

How fluent are you in your second language?

Do you have more languages that you can speak?

I plan to do extensive traveling over the next few years, and I would like to be able to pick up more language to assist me.

well i was reared speaking both spanish and english although spanish was more dominant in my home. English was mostly in school and outside social settings. I love reading both english and spanish however i read more english. i was in all bi-lingual classes from K-6 classes. I can speak spanish, read spanish, i have a slight difficulty in grammar(yeah also english). for me i think its wonderful being bi lingual because i can express myself in two languages, i can help people in my job who do not know how to speak english. currently, i am trying to re learn japanese. i can read hiragana and katakana and about 6 or 7 kanji i need a lot of help lol. i want to go in a slow pace. i really want to learn a third language an asian language, either japanese, vietnamese(lao and khmer would be nice too cause to communicate more with the community of the majority asians that live here) mandarin would be nice(i heard its hard)

i recommend anyone learning a language!

SagsWay2low said:

For those of you Bis out there, how did you do it? television and email correspondence

How fluent are you in your second language? somewhere between functional and fluent

Do you have more languages that you can speak? yes

I plan to do extensive traveling over the next few years, and I would like to be able to pick up more language to assist me.

(for the record, my languages are Japanese and French)

most people who say they want more language ability just aren't willing to put in the effort.

it isn't easy and you can't really stop once you start, as it'll quickly leave you if you aren't using it.

a bit like physical exercise, i guess.

living in Thailand is an enormous advantage, as by far the best one you can have when attempting to learn a new language is living in a country where it is spoken. you don't have to rely on "boring" rote memorization the way most people do. you can "live" it. i would actually go so far as to say that if you've been there that long and are still struggling, you simply aren't that interested in learning Thai.

baroque said:

well i was reared speaking both spanish and english although spanish was more dominant in my home. English was mostly in school and outside social settings. I love reading both english and spanish however i read more english. i was in all bi-lingual classes from K-6 classes. I can speak spanish, read spanish, i have a slight difficulty in grammar(yeah also english). for me i think its wonderful being bi lingual because i can express myself in two languages, i can help people in my job who do not know how to speak english. currently, i am trying to re learn japanese. i can read hiragana and katakana and about 6 or 7 kanji i need a lot of help lol. i want to go in a slow pace. i really want to learn a third language an asian language, either japanese, vietnamese(lao and khmer would be nice too cause to communicate more with the community of the majority asians that live here) mandarin would be nice(i heard its hard)

i recommend anyone learning a language!

Vietnamese is a tonal language. This means that the tone you assign to a syllable will completely change the word. So you can say something like "dan" and "dan" but depending on how you stress it, it won't be the same word. To make it even worse, Vietnamese has 6 tones!

Mandarin has 4 tones, but one of them is very tricky. It starts high, dips a bit, and goes back up. I fid it trickier than the Thai tones. If you want to read and write mandarin, it will be difficult. If you want to speak Mandarin, it will be a bit less difficult.

Japanese is easier for an English speaker to pronounce, but there are multiple layers of grammar and vocabulary aligned with politeness and social standing. You would a whole different set of pronounces, etc. to express something to somebody depending on their status with regards to your own.

The other languages I know nothing about.

I would actually attempt Chinese or Korean--I think those two will be very quickly growing influences in the world stage.

whistle said:

SagsWay2low said:

For those of you Bis out there, how did you do it? television and email correspondence

How fluent are you in your second language? somewhere between functional and fluent

Do you have more languages that you can speak? yes

I plan to do extensive traveling over the next few years, and I would like to be able to pick up more language to assist me.

(for the record, my languages are Japanese and French)

most people who say they want more language ability just aren't willing to put in the effort.

it isn't easy and you can't really stop once you start, as it'll quickly leave you if you aren't using it.

a bit like physical exercise, i guess.

living in Thailand is an enormous advantage, as by far the best one you can have when attempting to learn a new language is living in a country where it is spoken. you don't have to rely on "boring" rote memorization the way most people do. you can "live" it. i would actually go so far as to say that if you've been there that long and are still struggling, you simply aren't that interested in learning Thai.

あなたは 日本の音楽 好き?

SagsWay2low said:

baroque said:

well i was reared speaking both spanish and english although spanish was more dominant in my home. English was mostly in school and outside social settings. I love reading both english and spanish however i read more english. i was in all bi-lingual classes from K-6 classes. I can speak spanish, read spanish, i have a slight difficulty in grammar(yeah also english). for me i think its wonderful being bi lingual because i can express myself in two languages, i can help people in my job who do not know how to speak english. currently, i am trying to re learn japanese. i can read hiragana and katakana and about 6 or 7 kanji i need a lot of help lol. i want to go in a slow pace. i really want to learn a third language an asian language, either japanese, vietnamese(lao and khmer would be nice too cause to communicate more with the community of the majority asians that live here) mandarin would be nice(i heard its hard)

i recommend anyone learning a language!

Vietnamese is a tonal language. This means that the tone you assign to a syllable will completely change the word. So you can say something like "dan" and "dan" but depending on how you stress it, it won't be the same word. To make it even worse, Vietnamese has 6 tones!

Mandarin has 4 tones, but one of them is very tricky. It starts high, dips a bit, and goes back up. I fid it trickier than the Thai tones. If you want to read and write mandarin, it will be difficult. If you want to speak Mandarin, it will be a bit less difficult.

Japanese is easier for an English speaker to pronounce, but there are multiple layers of grammar and vocabulary aligned with politeness and social standing. You would a whole different set of pronounces, etc. to express something to somebody depending on their status with regards to your own.

The other languages I know nothing about.

I would actually attempt Chinese or Korean--I think those two will be very quickly growing influences in the world stage.

i agree with you! in particularly mandarin. i love korean too, but i find mandarin to be so very interesting such a beautiful language, i love to listen to chinese people speaking it at my local supermarket, they think im a bit nutty i believe cause im just like listening to their conversation without actually understanding. i know two words. Ni-hao/Ni Hao ma and Meili(beautiful)

whistle said:

SagsWay2low said:

For those of you Bis out there, how did you do it? television and email correspondence

How fluent are you in your second language? somewhere between functional and fluent

Do you have more languages that you can speak? yes

I plan to do extensive traveling over the next few years, and I would like to be able to pick up more language to assist me.

(for the record, my languages are Japanese and French)

most people who say they want more language ability just aren't willing to put in the effort.

it isn't easy and you can't really stop once you start, as it'll quickly leave you if you aren't using it.

a bit like physical exercise, i guess.

living in Thailand is an enormous advantage, as by far the best one you can have when attempting to learn a new language is living in a country where it is spoken. you don't have to rely on "boring" rote memorization the way most people do. you can "live" it. i would actually go so far as to say that if you've been there that long and are still struggling, you simply aren't that interested in learning Thai.

Can you explain the layered approach to their language with regards to social status?

My Thai friends who are studying Japanese say it is difficult as hell.

But Thai speakers find ANY language difficult.

baroque said:

SagsWay2low said:

Vietnamese is a tonal language. This means that the tone you assign to a syllable will completely change the word. So you can say something like "dan" and "dan" but depending on how you stress it, it won't be the same word. To make it even worse, Vietnamese has 6 tones!

Mandarin has 4 tones, but one of them is very tricky. It starts high, dips a bit, and goes back up. I fid it trickier than the Thai tones. If you want to read and write mandarin, it will be difficult. If you want to speak Mandarin, it will be a bit less difficult.

Japanese is easier for an English speaker to pronounce, but there are multiple layers of grammar and vocabulary aligned with politeness and social standing. You would a whole different set of pronounces, etc. to express something to somebody depending on their status with regards to your own.

The other languages I know nothing about.

I would actually attempt Chinese or Korean--I think those two will be very quickly growing influences in the world stage.

i agree with you! in particularly mandarin. i love korean too, but i find mandarin to be so very interesting such a beautiful language, i love to listen to chinese people speaking it at my local supermarket, they think im a bit nutty i believe cause im just like listening to their conversation without actually understanding. i know two words. Ni-hao/Ni Hao ma and Meili(beautiful)

I friggen LOOOOOVE Mandarin!

I used to think these languages sounded hilarious!

Now, living overseas for so long, when I think back to the "foreign accents are funny"

mentality, it grosses me out. It's sooooo colloquial and low-so to think that way.

baroque said:

whistle said:

(for the record, my languages are Japanese and French)

most people who say they want more language ability just aren't willing to put in the effort.

it isn't easy and you can't really stop once you start, as it'll quickly leave you if you aren't using it.

a bit like physical exercise, i guess.

living in Thailand is an enormous advantage, as by far the best one you can have when attempting to learn a new language is living in a country where it is spoken. you don't have to rely on "boring" rote memorization the way most people do. you can "live" it. i would actually go so far as to say that if you've been there that long and are still struggling, you simply aren't that interested in learning Thai.

あなたは 日本の音楽 好き?

日本の音楽にあまり詳しくないけど、いい練習する方法だと思います。

orgnote me if you don't understand.

whistle said:

SagsWay2low said:

For those of you Bis out there, how did you do it? television and email correspondence

How fluent are you in your second language? somewhere between functional and fluent

Do you have more languages that you can speak? yes

I plan to do extensive traveling over the next few years, and I would like to be able to pick up more language to assist me.

(for the record, my languages are Japanese and French)

most people who say they want more language ability just aren't willing to put in the effort.

it isn't easy and you can't really stop once you start, as it'll quickly leave you if you aren't using it.

a bit like physical exercise, i guess.

living in Thailand is an enormous advantage, as by far the best one you can have when attempting to learn a new language is living in a country where it is spoken. you don't have to rely on "boring" rote memorization the way most people do. you can "live" it. i would actually go so far as to say that if you've been there that long and are still struggling, you simply aren't that interested in learning Thai.

I would completely agree with you as I am a lazy person when it comes to languages.

However, in my defense , I work in an English speaking environment, and English is part

of my job. Moreover, I am ALWAYS working as I am rebuilding my career. I rarely get time

off to play so to speak.

Now these are all excuses of course, so I will heed your statements.

The brilliance of Thailand is that immersion is possible with Hindi, Thai, , Burmese, Mandarin, Japanese, German,

Russian and French. There are so many of those folks living here in their own communities

that you can always have someone to talk to that knows those languages.

im also interested in brazilian portuguese. so like if i would pick a new language to learn it would either be(re learning) japanese, mandarin or brazilian portuguese.

SagsWay2low said:

whistle said:

(for the record, my languages are Japanese and French)

most people who say they want more language ability just aren't willing to put in the effort.

it isn't easy and you can't really stop once you start, as it'll quickly leave you if you aren't using it.

a bit like physical exercise, i guess.

living in Thailand is an enormous advantage, as by far the best one you can have when attempting to learn a new language is living in a country where it is spoken. you don't have to rely on "boring" rote memorization the way most people do. you can "live" it. i would actually go so far as to say that if you've been there that long and are still struggling, you simply aren't that interested in learning Thai.

Can you explain the layered approach to their language with regards to social status?

My Thai friends who are studying Japanese say it is difficult as hell.

But Thai speakers find ANY language difficult.

hmm...theoretically you are supposed to vary your speech in politeness depending on whom you are speaking to...explaining it fully would bore you to sleep.

you learn polite Japanese at university so that you will not be a rude foreigner and/or you will be able to find work. however, 99% of the actual Japanese you meet will tell you that you sound like a textbook and speak only casual Japanese with you. subsequently, i have become really weak at all the honorific speech you're supposed to use for superiors.

whistle said:

SagsWay2low said:

Can you explain the layered approach to their language with regards to social status?

My Thai friends who are studying Japanese say it is difficult as hell.

But Thai speakers find ANY language difficult.

hmm...theoretically you are supposed to vary your speech in politeness depending on whom you are speaking to...explaining it fully would bore you to sleep.

you learn polite Japanese at university so that you will not be a rude foreigner and/or you will be able to find work. however, 99% of the actual Japanese you meet will tell you that you sound like a textbook and speak only casual Japanese with you. subsequently, i have become really weak at all the honorific speech you're supposed to use for superiors.

What is your first language?

And how hard was it to adopt the second?

SagsWay2low said:

I would completely agree with you as I am a lazy person when it comes to languages.

However, in my defense , I work in an English speaking environment, and English is part

of my job. Moreover, I am ALWAYS working as I am rebuilding my career. I rarely get time

off to play so to speak.

Now these are all excuses of course, so I will heed your statements.

my point isn't to scold you, it's only to say that developing any kind of skill in a new language is really fucking difficult and time-consuming. people don't really understand how much of a commitment it is. being able to have basic conversations in Thai is a respectable achievement given your age and other responsibilities.

i'm often skeptical of people who claim language ability, especially fluency, as in my experience it is more or less a full-time job without the benefit of being taught from birth or decades of immersion.

SagsWay2low said:

What is your first language?

And how hard was it to adopt the second?

English is my mother tongue.

it was/is difficult to adopt the second, but it's a labour of love (foreign cultures and languages are my life's passion) so it doesn't seem tedious to me. i'm still as excited to learn a new word today as i was when i started. you need that to keep yourself motivated.

I am currently trying to better grasp French. My reading and writing competency is... fair... and belonging to a vocation that has somewhat forced a cursory familiarity with written Latin and Koine Greek has probably helped with vocabulary, certain grammatical conventions, etc. But my conversational French is...

I deeply regret not giving the language more time earlier in my life. But the part of the U.S. I'm from simply did/does not extol the value of multilingualism. My wife speaks advanced, though not altogether fluent, French; my daughter, now completing Grade 4, has been educated in an immersive French environment in school since Kindergarten; and for 1-1/2 years now we've had a downstairs neighbor and close family friend who is not only a quintessentially narcissistic Parisienne transplant to Canada , but a linguistics geek who's insisted on teaching me stuff (and vows never to allow me to develop a Québécois French vernacular ). Having three women who daily conspire against me, scold me and butter me up as needed... en français has really helped my acquisition, believe it or not. But I've got a very long way to go yet outside of a totally immersive environment myself.

[Edited 4/23/11 9:07am]

SagsWay2low said:

For those of you Bis out there, how did you do it?

How fluent are you in your second language?

Do you have more languages that you can speak?

I've never really spent any time sitting down and formally studying Thai. I guess just spending the best part of 10 years around Thai ppl is how I've done it, hearing certain words over and over in the same contexts, asking what words mean, then finding opportunities to use them. It's not really a choice to use Thai, it's a necessity when speaking with nearly all of my wife's family and the ppl around the village where we live.

I'd say I'm pretty fluent in the sense of being comfortable speaking Thai, in that for 90% of what I say day to day I don't have to stop and think about the words I use or how to form the sentences. It comes automatically just like English, so I guess I think in Thai much of the time. However, as far as all-around ability I'm well short of fluent as I can't read or write Thai, and my vocabularly still needs broadening. I know pretty much all conversational stuff plus quite a bit more, but there's no real pattern or organization to what I know and don't know. I can have conversations with Thais about all kinds of subjects with relative ease, but I don't remember what most of the months of the year are because I've never made a point to learn them. I'm actually taking time out to deliberately fill in some gaps vocab-wise at the moment, which at this point seems to be relatively easy thankfully! If I flick through my Lonely Planet phrasebook and come across a word or phrase I don't know, once I've seen the meaning and repeated it to myself a few times, then it's remembered. Yesterday I saw 'pra-phehnii' (customs, rituals) and can now use that if opportunity arises. No other language I've learned has been as easy to pick up, vocab-wise, but again I think that's just down the context in which I'm learning, being surrounded by Thai.

I speak, read and write some Russian, but I can only get back into it when I'm around ppl speaking Russian.

.

[Edited 4/22/11 22:03pm]

I wish I was bi- or tri-lingual. Unfortunately, my small town high school only offered Spanish. And only to juniors and seniors, so the maximum you could take was 2 years. I took two years of Spanish. In college, as an art history major, it is assumed/recommended you will learn either French or German, or both, so I minored in French. The first semester was very hard for me because although it's a Romance language like Spanish, the pronounciation is very different (imo). I also chose to take my first semester in the summer so it was a 5-week crash course, which didn't help. My senior year I spent a semester studying abroad in Cannes, France where all my classes (language, culture, and art history) were in French. My French language/grammar teacher was a pain in the ass - I had two quizzes per week: vocab on Tuesdays and grammar on Fridays (which really cut into the take Friday off to travel plans) but when I returned stateside my French kicked ass. I took a class on Theater of the Absurd where we had to read and write papers on Ionesco, Beckett, Camus in French and it was no problem.

After graduating I didn't have many opportunities to use my French so my speaking skills suffered a lot, my reading comprehension was still okay for the most part. I also decided to try to learn German because I was planning on applying for graduate school. (In art history, where most programs require you to pass a language exam in French & German or another language directly related to your area of specialty.) German was a disaster, I hated it and only remember how to say "I have a question," and "I don't like German."

After I was accepted to grad school, I knew I would have to pass a language translation (written, not oral) in the language of my choosing. I chose French, even though I was pretty rusty. To prepare, each night all summer I translated a chapter from a book on French culture & history from French to English. Despite having to translate an essay by Jacques Derrida (a French deconstructivist philosopher whose m.o. is to pick apart language) from French sans dictionnaire (without a dictionary) for my test, I passed on the first try.

Alas, since grad school, I still don't really get to use my French; although I have gone on vacation to the French West Indies a couple of times in recent years and can speak well enough to get by. I would say that my French reading/translation is good, speaking is worse but like I said, I can carry on a basic conversation and I can often understand what I hear much better than I can speak.

I remember some Spanish but not really enough to carry on a conversation or translate written material. I "practice" my Spanish by reading the ads on the subway that are in Spanish and trying to figure out what they say before looking at the English versions. I should start taking classes again to bring my French up to speed, but I don't really have the time. I suppose people can learn by reading, but imo, you really need to speak and hear it so that you get the accent right and can "think" in that language instead of thinking of how you translate what you want to say into the foreign language.

(sorry for the long reply)

jone70 said:

German was a disaster, I hated it and only remember how to say "I have a question," and "I don't like German."

whistle said:

SagsWay2low said:

I speak Spanish, Catalan, English and Mandarin

Well, Mandarin I only eat it

PANDURITO said:

I speak Spanish, Catalan, English and Mandarin

Well, Mandarin I only eat it

where in Spain do you come from, sir?

whistle said:

PANDURITO said:

I speak Spanish, Catalan, English and Mandarin

Well, Mandarin I only eat it

where in Spain do you come from, sir?

Hola

I'm from Castellon, east coast, Between Valencia and Barcelona

Serious said:

SagsWay2low said:

It just dawned on me. Almost everyone I know is bilingual now. 30% are multi-lingual speaking 3 or some times 4 languages.

I know a New Zealander who speaks fluent Thai, English (of course), Chinese, and 2 dialects in the Philippines (Tagalog and some obscure colloquial dialect).

I have struggled and struggled to learn Spanish (which theoretically should be easy for an English speaker compared to some other languages) But could do little more than order food at a Cuban restaurant.

i'm currently learning Thai, and it is ....challenging.

I asked my friends how they learned and all of them say television or reading.

This to me seems like it isn't enough.

I'm getting a little bit frustrated at my skill level. I've been in Thailand for a year and a half, and can carry on on very basic conversations, and am often misunderstood when I pronounce words.

For those of you Bis out there, how did you do it?

How fluent are you in your second language?

Do you have more languages that you can speak?

I plan to do extensive traveling over the next few years, and I would like to be able to pick up more language to assist me.

That will get you some fluency if you live in that country, but thus you will never learn correct grammar.

Not so much of an issue in Thai.

Serious said:

jone70 said:

German was a disaster, I hated it and only remember how to say "I have a question," and "I don't like German."

Schade [Edited 4/23/11 0:52am]

And of course, I have no clue what that means!

(going to google it right now...)

I actually know a miniscule bit more - "I don't speak German," the numbers up to 20, and some random words/phrases, mostly related to art history: Der Blau Reiter, Kunsthalle, gestalt, neue sachlichkeit, Bauhaus, stuff like that.

I think one of the problems was that I didn't go to a German organization (like the equivalent of an Alliance Francais) for the class and the teacher wasn't very good. As practice, I would also try to translate whatever we were saying/learning into French (in my head).

I'm bilingual...Spanish/English.

Grew up in a spanish-speaking home in the USA.

It is a definite benefit, and I wish that I had been able to learn a third language in school. I have a good friend who is bilingual like myself, but learned French in school (can speak it well), and a few years back was sent to classes to learn German (knows the basics).

Regrettably, my kids know little Spanish. My wife and I both think/speak in English so we never taught them. It's horrible, I know. We have friends who made a concerted effort with their 2nd child to teach him Spanish. The mother spoke only Spanish to him and the father only English. And it worked!

I speak Dutch and English fluently and then I know a little basic German and French.