SagsWay2low said:

johnart said:

A civil and healthy exchange of opposing ideas.

This is such a nice welcome change.

What were you expecting?

" How dare you ask us gays about ourselves! Did you check off our bucket list of things not to ask us? You obviously hate the ghey and this thread should be locked, you ignorant ass breeder! There will be no more discussion of gheyness here " :sassygaywin:

Oh I wasn't expecting it to go badly. Just making a point that I'm proud of the folk on here because, especially after how many fuckin threads have been deleted in the past week or two everyone is showing you can have an exchange and not agree without a bunch of bullshit or finger pointing or accusations.

[Edited 4/21/11 18:43pm]

johnart said:

SagsWay2low said:

What were you expecting?

" How dare you ask us gays about ourselves! Did you check off our bucket list of things not to ask us? You obviously hate the ghey and this thread should be locked, you ignorant ass breeder! There will be no more discussion of gheyness here " :sassygaywin:

Oh I wasn't expecting it to go badly. Just making a point that I'm proud of the folk on here because, especially after how many fuckin threads have been deleted in the past week or two everyone is showing you can have an exchange and not agree without a bunch of bullshit or finger pointing or accusations.

[Edited 4/21/11 18:43pm]

What I like most about this thread is just how opposing the view points of the queer community are.

I also get a sense that many people in that supposed community actually feel a bit fringe, like they've got one foot in it, but diving into it would be unnatural to their personality or that the community doesn't accept them unless they conform to some rigid code of stereotypes.

BTW, I don't often say girl. I say GuRLL, which is totally different.

It's like the difference between saying ninja as opposed to the other n-words.

I hope you GuRRLs understand.

Spinlight said:

whistle said:

and this is why i never managed to be queer. sucking a nob or taking it up the wrong'un, fine...all this cliquey categorizing and worrying about what label applies...that's just too ghey for me.

[img:$uid]http://i52.tinypic.com/iqj5gn.gif[/img:$uid]

Sociology, motherfucker, do U know it?

Um... I know we're trying to act not straight here and all, but am I the only one who thinks she's really hot here? I think I'm actually getting turned on.

Lammastide said:

Spinlight said:

[img:$uid]http://i52.tinypic.com/iqj5gn.gif[/img:$uid]

Sociology, motherfucker, do U know it?

Um... I know we're trying to act not straight here and all, but am I the only one who thinks she's really hot here? I think I'm actually getting turned on.

Nope, she's fine as hell. I have moist tip.

Lammastide said:

Spinlight said:

[img:$uid]http://i52.tinypic.com/iqj5gn.gif[/img:$uid]

Sociology, motherfucker, do U know it?

Um... I know we're trying to act not straight here and all, but am I the only one who thinks she's really hot here? I think I'm actually getting turned on.

She's a beautiful woman, doesn't mean it's wrong to say that.

See, there we go again with that stigma that if you think a woman is sexy, that's a sin to a gay person. We gotta cut that shit out. Just my honest opinion.

Timmy84 said:

Lammastide said:

Um... I know we're trying to act not straight here and all, but am I the only one who thinks she's really hot here? I think I'm actually getting turned on.

She's a beautiful woman, doesn't mean it's wrong to say that.

See, there we go again with that stigma that if you think a woman is sexy, that's a sin to a gay person. We gotta cut that shit out. Just my honest opinion.

You're right. I'm appropriately ashamed.

johnart said:

SUPRMAN said:

Uh - You said "football."

As a gay man who LOVES football, college and pro, I'm left with straight friends. Most of my life my male friends have been hetero because of things we have in common.

I hate shopping.

I've been called the 'straightest gay man' anyone knows too many times to count.

I don't use the term "straight acting." I do say I'm masculine.

Being around hetero men isn't a great way to find a partner, but dealing with men who can't understand why I watch football is equally irritating.

I hate hearing that.

And can totally understand why the alternative is irritating. But is it the only alternative?

Are there no sport nights or anything around you? Gay sport teams? I've seen a lot of gay dudes online talkin how they're into sports and stuff. Dating sites? There's gotta be a way to meet dudes with those interests.

I'm not now trynna marry you off or nuthin.

Gay dating sounds like an oxymoron.

Guys who want a laundry list of specifications . . .

I want another relationship but don't expect it will happen.

Timmy84 said:

Lammastide said:

Um... I know we're trying to act not straight here and all, but am I the only one who thinks she's really hot here? I think I'm actually getting turned on.

She's a beautiful woman, doesn't mean it's wrong to say that.

See, there we go again with that stigma that if you think a woman is sexy, that's a sin to a gay person. We gotta cut that shit out. Just my honest opinion.

Co-sign. Beyonce is fine as a mug, no shame in that game.

Sometimes, I will bring up how I find certain women to be sexually attractive and my gay friends are aghast. They really act like I just stood up in the middle of a restaurant and put my dick in the General Tso's or something. I'm never going to not be gay - why the hell would I deny acknowledging someone's beauty?

Spinlight said:

Timmy84 said:

She's a beautiful woman, doesn't mean it's wrong to say that.

See, there we go again with that stigma that if you think a woman is sexy, that's a sin to a gay person. We gotta cut that shit out. Just my honest opinion.

Co-sign. Beyonce is fine as a mug, no shame in that game.

Sometimes, I will bring up how I find certain women to be sexually attractive and my gay friends are aghast. They really act like I just stood up in the middle of a restaurant and put my dick in the General Tso's or something. I'm never going to not be gay - why the hell would I deny acknowledging someone's beauty?

LOL My straight friends when I make such comments always want to see me pursue the woman in question.

They can't seem to fathom that I've slept with women and still prefer men.

SUPRMAN said:

Spinlight said:

Co-sign. Beyonce is fine as a mug, no shame in that game.

Sometimes, I will bring up how I find certain women to be sexually attractive and my gay friends are aghast. They really act like I just stood up in the middle of a restaurant and put my dick in the General Tso's or something. I'm never going to not be gay - why the hell would I deny acknowledging someone's beauty?

LOL My straight friends when I make such comments always want to see me pursue the woman in question.

They can't seem to fathom that I've slept with women and still prefer men.

Same with me.

Come to think of it, I might be the only gay guy I know who started out having sex with girls and none of my gay friends understand. Meanwhile, my straight friends think its a phase or that I'm "not really gay."

And you know how they say it, too. Give you the hairy eyeball and then nudge your shoulder with a "Camaaaaaaan, you aren't really gaaaaaaaay." Next time one of them does it, I'ma get real fuckin gay real quick. ahahaha.

Spinlight said:

SUPRMAN said:

LOL My straight friends when I make such comments always want to see me pursue the woman in question.

They can't seem to fathom that I've slept with women and still prefer men.

Same with me.

Come to think of it, I might be the only gay guy I know who started out having sex with girls and none of my gay friends understand. Meanwhile, my straight friends think its a phase or that I'm "not really gay."

And you know how they say it, too. Give you the hairy eyeball and then nudge your shoulder with a "Camaaaaaaan, you aren't really gaaaaaaaay." Next time one of them does it, I'ma get real fuckin gay real quick. ahahaha.

I definitely get this. I came out 10 years ago, but I still have several people close to me insist I'm not gay, just freaky.

But, then, I expect my lifestyle to complicate folks' understanding of my sexuality. Just something I'm used to anymore.

Eh.

Lammastide said:

Spinlight said:

Same with me.

Come to think of it, I might be the only gay guy I know who started out having sex with girls and none of my gay friends understand. Meanwhile, my straight friends think its a phase or that I'm "not really gay."

And you know how they say it, too. Give you the hairy eyeball and then nudge your shoulder with a "Camaaaaaaan, you aren't really gaaaaaaaay." Next time one of them does it, I'ma get real fuckin gay real quick. ahahaha.

I definitely get this. I came out 10 years ago, but I still have several people close to me insist I'm not gay, just freaky.

But, then, I expect my lifestyle to complicate folks' understanding of my sexuality. Just something I'm used to anymore.

I get that from my family.

Because I'm not some sissy or something, I can't be gay, after all I watch more sports than they do or their husbands etc.

I'm not going out in make up and my shirt tied up or impossibly tight.

^^ Right. That pisses me off. Just because not every gay guy, especially gay black men, go around with their shirts tied up, wearing makeup, and don't "twan", that ain't "gay". That's some stupid ass prejudging BULLSHIT.

Lammastide said:

If it's not actively self-loathing, I do think it still does at least two detrimental things:

1) It assigns behavior to certain groups, undercutting the actual diversity of those groups.

2) It submits to behavioral heteronormativity -- and, yes, most often to the supposed superior appeal of things hetero. Here I can't altogether blame LGBs for wanting to "pass" or align ourselves with others who can/do, because let's face it: It ain't easy being pink. But as long as we pander to this dynamic, we necessarily contribute to our own marginalization.

Beneath all of this, of course, is another more primal social ill: flat-out sexism. We still carry on with things "butch," "masculine," etc. being good; things "femme," "queeny," "fishy," etc. being not quite as good (except for certain very controlled contexts wherein there's an assumed utility in stereotypically feminine things)... and it all stems from not just discerning a difference, but a stratification, among masculinity and femininity.

This all is something we engage to our detriment, I think.

[Edited 4/21/11 12:30pm]

That's the crux of it. It all has to do with the very idea that acting "feminine" in any way is abhorrent. That being female is abhorrent.

Efan said:

I still don't see it. Personally, I find body-shaving (unless you're a drag performer or a swimmer) to be a far more destructive force in the gay community. If people are gravitating somewhat slightly to some masculine things, it's only in small ways and after a lot of effort.

Amen, Amen,.....AMEN dammitt!!!!!

Efan said:

Spinlight said:

Take that forward and explain how it relates to people today, though?

I don't shave my body (not into that kinda look), but I can understand if people don't like the presence of body hair. Plenty of people out there are more sexually attracted to Fabio than they are Tom Selleck.

I think that body-shaver/TeenBeat attitude prevails today. The gay community at large is still very much Team Jacob. Bunch of bottoms chasing other bottoms and pretending their "versatility" will make up for it. They've even got straight guys "manscaping," a trend I hope and pray will die soon. It's disgusting to me.

To me, Fabio is feminine, as is the gay kid who plays Jacob in the Twilight movies. When you say that plenty of people are more sexually attracted to that, I agree--I see it all the time. I can't tell you how many gay men I wanted to smack in the head when Titanic came out, because they were so obsessed with Leonardo DiCaprio in that movie. Yuck. Personally, I think there is much to celebrate if even a small portion (and I think it IS a small portion) of the gay community is back to celebrating gay masculinity.

That damn shaving and trimming was going on long before "Titanic". If you look at some of the gay porn from the 1970s, not the straight porn, but the gay porn....yes, the hairy man was what was considered sexy back then (as well as in the straight world also) but I have seen a little bit of the shaved and trimmed dicks in the gay porn back then. Usually really pussy looking "boys".

But I first started noticing it in straight magazines such as "Playgirl" (yes gay men love it, but it was made for women) in the mid to late 1980s. Check out this site NSFW WARNING.....

www.blackdogue.net

If you notice the men from the 1970s on up to around 1984 have hairy dicks. Not shaved and not trimmed whatsoever. But if you check out some of them starting around 1985 or 1986, you start seeing the shaved and trimmed dicks. And once you get into the 1990s, it was getting harder and harder to find a dick that wasn't shaved or trimmed. Oh, I know what I'm talking about with these dicks honey because I'm an old whore and I've been watching dicks a loooooooong time.

But dammitt, I noticed in the late 1990s and 2000s, that is has spread on over into real life, not just in porn. I'm damn sick of getting men home only to tell them to take their "little boy" looking dick on home because Andy ain't no pervert and don't molest no damn kids. A shaved dick not only reminds me of a child but it also reminds me of a woman. Stop all that damn shaving and trimming and leave those dicks alone! I want a man, a REAL MAN, not a boy.

[img:$uid]http://www.lgf.org.uk/uploads/images/news/2009-1/straight%20acting%20angelo.jpg[/img:$uid]

THis book pretty much sums it all up in all types of different categories.

I highly recommend this book. It is very very good!

Efan said:

Lammastide said:

Why do you think guys do the shaving, waxing etc?

I wouldn't call it being prettified. I think there is a very unhealthy obsession with youth in gay culture. So much so that there is an overwhelming desire by many to look like 12-year-olds.

Exactly. I think it started out as porn for perverts and pedophiles but it eventually became so popular and for so long that now people think it's normal looking and better looking. I've even heard the arguements about hygeine. Please! Men have had hairy dicks since the beginning of time and their dicks ain't rotted off for being hairy. Use some damn soap and water and that thang will be clean and it won't smell either.

I mean really, just look at the titles of some of these magazines and porn sites...."Barely Legal Boys". Why the hell would someone want something that looks "barely legal" unless they are a pervert or a pedophile? Like I said before, I think it started out as porn for perverts but people have grown up seeing mostly shaved dicks in porn and now they think it's normal looking.

vainandy said:

Efan said:

I think that body-shaver/TeenBeat attitude prevails today. The gay community at large is still very much Team Jacob. Bunch of bottoms chasing other bottoms and pretending their "versatility" will make up for it. They've even got straight guys "manscaping," a trend I hope and pray will die soon. It's disgusting to me.

To me, Fabio is feminine, as is the gay kid who plays Jacob in the Twilight movies. When you say that plenty of people are more sexually attracted to that, I agree--I see it all the time. I can't tell you how many gay men I wanted to smack in the head when Titanic came out, because they were so obsessed with Leonardo DiCaprio in that movie. Yuck. Personally, I think there is much to celebrate if even a small portion (and I think it IS a small portion) of the gay community is back to celebrating gay masculinity.

That damn shaving and trimming was going on long before "Titanic". If you look at some of the gay porn from the 1970s, not the straight porn, but the gay porn....yes, the hairy man was what was considered sexy back then (as well as in the straight world also) but I have seen a little bit of the shaved and trimmed dicks in the gay porn back then. Usually really pussy looking "boys".

But I first started noticing it in straight magazines such as "Playgirl" (yes gay men love it, but it was made for women) in the mid to late 1980s. Check out this site NSFW WARNING.....

www.blackdogue.net

If you notice the men from the 1970s on up to around 1984 have hairy dicks. Not shaved and not trimmed whatsoever. But if you check out some of them starting around 1985 or 1986, you start seeing the shaved and trimmed dicks. And once you get into the 1990s, it was getting harder and harder to find a dick that wasn't shaved or trimmed. Oh, I know what I'm talking about with these dicks honey because I'm an old whore and I've been watching dicks a loooooooong time.

But dammitt, I noticed in the late 1990s and 2000s, that is has spread on over into real life, not just in porn. I'm damn sick of getting men home only to tell them to take their "little boy" looking dick on home because Andy ain't no pervert and don't molest no damn kids. A shaved dick not only reminds me of a child but it also reminds me of a woman. Stop all that damn shaving and trimming and leave those dicks alone! I want a man, a REAL MAN, not a boy.

OMG, this has totally turned into a hairy dicks thread.

paisleypark4 said:

vainandy said:

That damn shaving and trimming was going on long before "Titanic". If you look at some of the gay porn from the 1970s, not the straight porn, but the gay porn....yes, the hairy man was what was considered sexy back then (as well as in the straight world also) but I have seen a little bit of the shaved and trimmed dicks in the gay porn back then. Usually really pussy looking "boys".

But I first started noticing it in straight magazines such as "Playgirl" (yes gay men love it, but it was made for women) in the mid to late 1980s. Check out this site NSFW WARNING.....

www.blackdogue.net

If you notice the men from the 1970s on up to around 1984 have hairy dicks. Not shaved and not trimmed whatsoever. But if you check out some of them starting around 1985 or 1986, you start seeing the shaved and trimmed dicks. And once you get into the 1990s, it was getting harder and harder to find a dick that wasn't shaved or trimmed. Oh, I know what I'm talking about with these dicks honey because I'm an old whore and I've been watching dicks a loooooooong time.

But dammitt, I noticed in the late 1990s and 2000s, that is has spread on over into real life, not just in porn. I'm damn sick of getting men home only to tell them to take their "little boy" looking dick on home because Andy ain't no pervert and don't molest no damn kids. A shaved dick not only reminds me of a child but it also reminds me of a woman. Stop all that damn shaving and trimming and leave those dicks alone! I want a man, a REAL MAN, not a boy.

I used to do that ALL THE TIME..but my partner now told me to not do it because I look like a kid..wth? Oh well...I liked to shave because I sweat alot in the groin after dancing and stuff...all that hair just traps the sweat. And it looks clean and nice.

That's why you wash that dick.

But as for "looking cleaner or nicer" to you, you weren't born until 1982. By the time you were old enough to start sneaking and finding magazines or porn, the shaved dicks were already dominating. But I was born in 1967 so I snuck and found porn in the 1970s. The men in those magazines looked like grown men and they had extremely hairy dicks and balls. If you could somehow magically force the average men on the street to pull their dicks out, that's how the men in porn looked back then.

I even remember hanging with the boys my age and the time and "comparing dicks". I didn't even get hard because even as a child, I found a child's dick to look sickening. But if those boys' daddies had come in and showed us their dicks, I would have been hard as a rock. Plus, back then, we couldn't wait till we got hair on our dicks. I remember some of us use to wrap toilet paper around the base of our dicks and pretend we had hair around it. Pubic hair was the status of a man and the more you had, the more manly you were.

SagsWay2low said:

OMG, this has totally turned into a hairy dicks thread.

My favorite subject.

johnart said:

vainandy said:

I can't stand for somebody to call me "girl". Not only does it sounds sickening but it sounds weak. It makes us sound like we're little confused motherfuckers that don't know what gender we are. I'm fine with "bitch" though because a man can be a bitch. A bitch is more an attitude and a bitch is a term of power. Somebody would think twice about fucking with a bitch but they wouldn't hesitate to slap a "girl" upside her head.

But see, this is a prime example of what I mean about not being able to make definitive rules on words and their use. I use bitch too and my friends call me bitch (here and RL), but there are females who will stand up and say "Hey, this is a term derrogatory of females, please do not do this"

Most words are gonna have different meanings and impact on different folk. It'll always be this way.

And I don't have a problem being called "bitch" in certain contexts. It can be an endearing term. And I have been confused at times whether to call gay males "girl," "chile," "bitch," or "whatevah." If I don't know, I am sure they will let me know, or I will straight up ask, and then there will be no problems or misunderstandings. Now if you you're talking about me and say, "Oh, Shyra's a bitch!" I might have a problem because I really, really am a very nice person.

SagsWay2low said:

OMG, this has totally turned into a hairy dicks thread.

Mississippi queens get horny too. (Vainandy's from Mississippi so you know)

This is rather dumb, i mean people say i act i guess ''straight'' acting. I mean to me i'm just me a normal average guy and i'm gay to because well gay is normal whether whether people like to think so or not.

I'm glad this topic is brought up because i had this situation at the club i went to last night, i went dressed in a Jimi Hendrix shirt, kind of a muscle shirt, and a Public Enemy beanie i thought nothing of it i just got dressed and went. And these guy's where attracted to me cause i looked like a thug to them?? or very straight i was like wtf???

I have had this happen before and it's silly, i have one of those okcupid profiles hey i'm 20 i'm young leave me alone

And guy's will be like omg you play guitar? omg you kickbox? you listen to rock music? yada yada i shit you not these are responses i have gotten

It is a bit self hating and stupid, i mean as i said i am just a normal guy but people think i'm straight acting or w/e i want them to like me for me not for some bullshit like that.

I agree....It's strange.

Thats just like saying a person that is hispanic or white...or whatever saying they only date people who act their race

Or like you said when some gays st8?????

Strange thing is I'm gay and I attract alot of guys who come across as thugs or very masculine but they end up liking me but claim to only like St8 acting men...... I dont consider myself st8 acting. Everyone has something feminine or masculine about them. I'm not a flaming queen LOL * No offense* since I do have some male gay friends that are just obviously out there. There are some feminine gay guys I know that are quiet and dont have to be loud just to be seen. But thats just like some st8 people who have to shout out their sexuality just to be seen if you get what I'm saying but yeah.............Honestly most of the people who say they want someone who is st8 acting who is also gay means that more than likely their in the closet LOL

paisleypark4 said:

I used to do that ALL THE TIME..but my partner now told me to not do it because I look like a kid..wth? Oh well...I liked to shave because I sweat alot in the groin after dancing and stuff...all that hair just traps the sweat. And it looks clean and nice.

I've never understood this. It must be just an easy catch-all where you have less stinky bitches to worry about if you cut them out of the picture prematurely by requiring people to be shaved or whatevs.

Hair does trap sweat and whatnot, but thats because it's cooling the area. I would think you sweat MORE with less hair there and that the sensation is just different - not that you are anymore clean or that your pecker smells any cuter.

I don't care if a person shaves or not but there's something really feral and wild about a dude with a full bush, who isn't scared of the way his body is, and has the motivation to keep himself clean. Whether you have hair or not, if you are not washing that ass and those dick&balls of yours, you are going to be vile period.

Gunsnhalen said:

This is rather dumb, i mean people say i act i guess ''straight'' acting. I mean to me i'm just me a normal average guy and i'm gay to because well gay is normal whether whether people like to think so or not.

I'm glad this topic is brought up because i had this situation at the club i went to last night, i went dressed in a Jimi Hendrix shirt, kind of a muscle shirt, and a Public Enemy beanie i thought nothing of it i just got dressed and went. And these guy's where attracted to me cause i looked like a thug to them?? or very straight i was like wtf???

I have had this happen before and it's silly, i have one of those okcupid profiles hey i'm 20 i'm young leave me alone

And guy's will be like omg you play guitar? omg you kickbox? you listen to rock music? yada yada i shit you not these are responses i have gotten

It is a bit self hating and stupid, i mean as i said i am just a normal guy but people think i'm straight acting or w/e i want them to like me for me not for some bullshit like that.

Yeah that's a pain to have to deal with.

Spinlight said:

paisleypark4 said:

I used to do that ALL THE TIME..but my partner now told me to not do it because I look like a kid..wth? Oh well...I liked to shave because I sweat alot in the groin after dancing and stuff...all that hair just traps the sweat. And it looks clean and nice.

I've never understood this. It must be just an easy catch-all where you have less stinky bitches to worry about if you cut them out of the picture prematurely by requiring people to be shaved or whatevs.

Hair does trap sweat and whatnot, but thats because it's cooling the area. I would think you sweat MORE with less hair there and that the sensation is just different - not that you are anymore clean or that your pecker smells any cuter.

I don't care if a person shaves or not but there's something really feral and wild about a dude with a full bush, who isn't scared of the way his body is, and has the motivation to keep himself clean. Whether you have hair or not, if you are not washing that ass and those dick&balls of yours, you are going to be vile period.

LOL you said it right amigo!